Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nephallim 06-11-07, 08:02 PM	Needless to say, I'm a big fan of a lot of the material in Libris Mortis, particularly the Mother Cyst feat and the accompanying spells. The following is a prestige class I built around using said spells. Civil comments, suggestions, and critiques are always welcome. You could say that's why I'm here:D Necrotic Disciple "Mother knows best." --Rhavin Blightborn, Necrotic Disciple Among necromancers there are some who go so far as to grow and nurture pockets of undead flesh within their own bodies in order to gain secret knowledge best unknown to mortal minds. These 'Mother Cysts' bestow upon their hosts frightening abilities to transfer similar cysts to others and to manipulate these in horrifying manners. The Necrotic Disciple is one such sage who has gone beyond the scope of reason and experimented with the properties of his own Mother Cyst, allowing it to grow and expand and truly become a part of himself. Becoming a Necrotic Disciple Most Necrotic Disciples begin their carreers as dread necromancers, wizards, or sorcerers with an unhealthy interest in the black arts of Necromancy. Typically, these dark mages lack a sense of personal connection to their companions, as the developing intelligence of their Mother Cysts demands the death of their familiar, should they have one. Entry Requirements To qualify to become a Necrotic Disciple, a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Alignment: Any Evil Skills: Knowledge (Religion) 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks Feats: Mother Cyst, Spell Focus (Necromancy), Great Fortitude. Spellcasting: Able to cast arcane spells of at least third level. Hit Dice: D4 Class Skills A Necrotic Disciple's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int) Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + int modifier Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spellcasting 1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Consume Familiar, Necrotic Senses +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 2 +1 +0 +0 +3 Necrotic Reach, Necrotic Spell Power+1 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 3 +1 +1 +1 +3 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 4 +2 +1 +1 +4 Necrotic Awakening, Necrotic Spell Power +2 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 5 +2 +1 +1 +4 Necrotic Armor 2/Magic and Good +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 6 +3 +2 +2 +5 Necrotic Spell Power +3 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 7 +3 +2 +2 +5 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 8 +4 +2 +2 +6 Necrotic Spell Power +4 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 9 +4 +3 +3 +6 Necrotic Infection +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 10 +5 +3 +3 +6 Necrotic Armor 4/Magic and Good, Necrotic Perfection, Necrotic Spell Power +5 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class Class Features Weapon and Armor Proficiency: None gained. Necrotic Disciple retains any profiences he had. Consume Familiar (Su): Upon becoming a Necrotic Disciple the character loses all ability to summon or bind a familiar. If the Necrotic Disciple already had a familiar he must immediately kill it and 'feed' it to his Mother Cyst. The familiar's physical form is absorbed into the Mother Cyst and the Necrotic Disciple permanently gains the special benefit the familiar granted. For example, a bat familiar consumed in this manner would grant the Necrotic Disciple a permanent +3 bonus on Listen checks. Necrotic Senses (Ex): At first level the Necrotic Disciple's senses sharpen, at least in relation to Necrotic Cysts. The Disciple immediately knows if anyone they look upon is hosting a Necrotic Cyst. The Disciple cannot immediately distinguish between a Necrotic Cyst or Mother Cyst. To do so they must closely inspect the subject and make a DC 30 Knowledge (Arcana) check. The subject must be willing or incapacitated for this distinction to be made. Necrotic Reach (Ex): At second level the Necrotic Disciple gains the ability to shoot out tentacles of undead tissue from his physical body. These tentacles cannot be used to attack or grapple normally, but rather they allow the Necrotic Disciple to deliver touch attacks up to thirty feet away, in conjunction with the Necrotic Cyst spell. When not in use these tentacles withdraw into the Disciple's body, leaving sickly looking purple scars in their wake. Necrotic Spell Power (Ex): A Necrotic Disciple learns to attune his mind and body to better channel the undead energies of his Mother Cyst. At second level, the Necrotic Disciple gains a bonus that increases the effective caster level of his spells granted by the Mother Cyst feat for purposes of determining level-dependent spell variables and for caster level checks. This bonus starts at +1 and increases at every even class level thereafter. Necrotic Awakening (Su): At fourth level, the Necrotic Disciple's Mother Cyst begins to experience brief moments of sentience. Once per day the Necrotic Disciple may cast a Necrotic Cyst spell (a spell granted by the Mother Cyst feat) as if quickened. At eighth level the Necrotic Disciple may use this ability three times a day. Necrotic Armor (Ex): At fifth level the Necrotic Disciple's Mother Cyst grows and expands under his skin, creating a layer of tough, undead muscle. This ability grants DR 2/Magic and Good to the Necrotic Disciple. At level 10, this DR increases to 4/Magic and Good. Necrotic Infection (Su): At 9th level, the Necrotic Disciple may, 1/day, add a Necrotic Cyst effect, as the spell of the same name to any necromancy spell he casts. Necrotic Perfection (Ex): At level 10, the Necrotic Disciple gains the ability to spontaneously cast spells gained from the Mother Cyst feat, as an Evil Cleric casts inflict spells. If the character can already cast spells provided by the Mother Cyst feat spontaneously, they may instead add metamagic effects to those spells without lengthening the casting time. Playing a Necrotic Disciple Nothing is sacred, save power and understanding. Necrotic Disciples are perhaps more likely than any to experience disgust at the horrors of the world. After all, they themselves have willingly given their bodies over to a malign, undead intelligence for the sake of understanding. As to understanding what, that is up to the individual Necrotic Disciple. One Disciple's area of study may be the state of death and decay. Another might seek to study life through determining exactly what horrific deprevations it can go through before ceasing to exist, using their own body as a test subject. Combat Necrotic Disciples are generally specialists of the most elite caliber. Not only do they focus on a specific school of magic, but they also further specialize to a certain set of spells. In a combat situation, the Necrotic Disciple's first order of business is to spread their Mother Cyst's spawn to their opponents. As arcane spellcasters, Necrotic Disciples generally lack the stamina to stand up front in combat, so they usually do this from a distance. Very early in their carreers Necrotic Disciples may do this through the Spectral Hand spell, but very quickly they learn to project tendrils of Necrotic flesh from their Mother Cyst to deliver this initial effect. One the subject has been implanted with a Necrotic Cyst the Disciple's options open up. Their final spell selection allows them to do everything from causing the cyst to consume the subject's soul, to permanently enthralling the subject to the whims of the Disciple. One famed Necrotic Disciple, Rhavin Blightborn, employs a cabal of goblin mercenaries which he has permanently enslaved via the Necrotic Tumor spell. He sends these slaves to attack his foes, and once they are engaged in melee he uses Necrotic Eruption on them, spraying gore and unholy energy across the battlefield, and spreading the cysts to his enemies. Advancement Among the arcane community, Necrotic Disciples come from all demographics. Students of prominent arcane academies who's curiosity leads them to forbidden knowledge, self-taught sorcerers with a morbid streak, and the stereotypical necromancer's apprentice all may come to follow the Disciple's path. One common feature of almost all Necrotic Disciples, however, is that they have a tendency to come to their unique path on their own. While many practitioners of the dark arts advise their pupils to grow Mother Cysts within themselves to gain power, few would recommend or consider nurturing it to the point of sentience and existing Necrotic Disciples usually have no need of apprentices. Resources Peasants and followers of good dieties abhor Necrotic Disciples, and thus these forbidden practitioners rarely, if ever, gain the support of the public. Even other evil spellcasters cringe away from aiding Necrotic Disciples. Perhaps those most likely to shelter and work with Necrotic Disciples are those who have given themselves over fully to dark powers. Blackguards, Dread Necromancers, Pale Masters, True Necromancers, and Warlocks as well as some evil clerics often work with, or even seek the assistance of Necrotic Disciples. Necrotic Disciples in the World "Fellow gives me the shivers. Skin's all grey and dead-lookin', and he's always mutterin' about his mum. Damned creepy if you ask me." --Mareth, Innkeeper of the Dusty Flagon, commenting on the black-cloaked figure in the dark corner of his establishment Hunted by the powers that be more often than not, Necrotic Disciples take their place either in the dark bowels of society or outside of it. Organization Necrotic Disciples tend to be strongly independent of one another. Occaisionally a cabal of like-minded Necrotic Disciples may band together to pursue some dark goal, but more often a Necrotic Disciple will seek the aid of Blackguards and evil clerics, prefering not to collaborate with others of their kind. If anything, Necrotic Disciples are wary of one another. NPC Reactions Other characters fully devoted to evil powers, especially gods of death and decay, are the most likely to be neutral or even helpful to Necrotic Disciples. Other evil necromancers may look up to Necrotic Disciples as "supermen" who delved into secrets so dark that the most soulless of liches would shudder. Most others are likely to regard Necrotic Disciples as more monster than man, and followers of good dieties, especially those in direct opposition to malignant necromancy and undead, are likely to attack Necrotic Disciples on sight. Necrotic Disciple Lore Characters with ranks in Knowledge (Religion) or Knowledge (Arcana) can research the Necrotic Disciples to learn more about them. When a character makes a skill check, read or paraphrase the following, including the information from lower DCs. DC 10: "Necrotic Disciples are highly specialized necromancers." DC 15: "Necrotic Disciples grow pockets of undead flesh and fluid within themselves, and can gain power over others by implanting similar cysts in them." DC 20: "The undead flesh cultivated by Necrotic Disciples is actually a symbiot called a Mother Cyst. Necrotic Disciples nurture this symbiot until it gains a semblance of sentience, and let it grow to encompass large portions of their bodies. DC 30: "Powerful Necrotic Disciples can implant cysts discreetly through other spells of the necromancy school."
JoshuaZ 06-11-07, 09:58 PM	I like it, although I think the abilties don't completely match the flavor and there are some unfortunate dead levels. I'd suggest the following changes: For 3rd level: Necrotic Energy Storage (SU) You have learned how to store a small amount of magical energy in your Mother Cyst. You gain 3 level 2 spell slots that can only be used for necromantic spells. For 6th level: Mother's Knowledge (SU): Your knowledge from the Mother Cyst gives you special insight into the undead. All knowledge checks related to the undead are made as if you had 3 more ranks in the relevant knowledge skill than you have. For 8th level Greater Necrotic Energy Storage (SU) You become more proficient at storing energy in your Mother Cyst. You gain 5 6th level spell slots that can only be used for necromantic spells. And we need a more interesting capstone ability: Necrotic Symbiosis The Disciple and the Mother Cyst partially fuse. This has the following results: The DR from Necrotic Armor becomes 4/Magic and Good. The Disciple gains one of the following advantages of being undead: immunity to fear affects, poisons. The constant communication with the Mother Cyst alters the Disciple's mind and the disciple gains +2 to Will Saves (and if you are playing with them +2 to sanity checks).
Nephallim 06-11-07, 11:03 PM	Eh...dead levels aren't really an issue. Adding spell slots isn't a good solution either, as this PrC's assumed build loses no caster levels, and doesn't suffer from bad MAD. The question is: is the class balanced? Also, I'm curious as to which abilities you don't think fit the flavor. Also, I'm thinking of adding this as a capstone ability at level 10: Necrotic Perfection (Ex): At level 10, the Necrotic Disciple gains the ability to spontaneously cast spells gained from the Mother Cyst feat, as an Evil Cleric casts inflict spells.
JoshuaZ 06-12-07, 03:12 PM	Eh...dead levels aren't really an issue. Adding spell slots isn't a good solution either, as this PrC's assumed build loses no caster levels, and doesn't suffer from bad MAD. The question is: is the class balanced? Also, I'm curious as to which abilities you don't think fit the flavor. Also, I'm thinking of adding this as a capstone ability at level 10: Necrotic Perfection (Ex): At level 10, the Necrotic Disciple gains the ability to spontaneously cast spells gained from the Mother Cyst feat, as an Evil Cleric casts inflict spells. Maybe it is just me, but dead levels are no fun. As to which abilites don't fit the flavor, it is more a lack of abilities fitting the flavor. You say that they do it to " gain secret knowledge best unknown to mortal minds" but few of the abilities gained have anything to do with learning things that man was not meant to know. Overall, I like it and I think your proposed level 10 ability is a good one.
Molot 06-12-07, 03:24 PM	Necrotic Disciple Among necromancers there are some who go so far as to grow and nurture pockets of undead flesh within their own bodies in order to gain secret knowledge best unknown to mortal minds. These 'Mother Cysts' bestow upon their hosts frightening abilities to transfer similar cysts to others and to manipulate these in horrifying manners. The Necrotic Disciple is one such sage who has gone beyond the scope of reason and experimented with the properties of his own Mother Cyst, allowing it to grow and expand and truly become a part of himself. Requirements To qualify to become a Necrotic Disciple, a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Alignment: Any Evil Skills: Knowledge (Religion) 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks Feats: Mother Cyst, Spell Focus (Necromancy), Great Fortitude. Spellcasting: Able to cast arcane spells of at least third level. Hit Dice: D4 Class Skill A Necrotic Disciple's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int) Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + int modifier Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spellcasting 1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Consume Familiar, Necrotic Senses +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 2 +1 +0 +0 +3 Necrotic Reach +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 3 +1 +1 +1 +3 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 4 +2 +1 +1 +4 Necrotic Awakening +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 5 +2 +1 +1 +4 Necrotic Armor 2/Magic and Good +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 6 +3 +2 +2 +5 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 7 +3 +2 +2 +5 Necrotic Spell Focus +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 8 +4 +2 +2 +6 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 9 +4 +3 +3 +6 Necrotic Infection +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 10 +5 +3 +3 +6 Necrotic Armor 4/Magic and Good +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class Weapon and Armor Proficiency: None gained. Necrotic Disciple retains any profiences he had. Consume Familiar (Su): Upon becoming a Necrotic Disciple the character loses all ability to summon or bind a familiar. If the Necrotic Disciple already had a familiar he must immediately kill it and 'feed' it to his Mother Cyst. The familiar's physical form is absorbed into the Mother Cyst to no detriment or advantage to the Disciple. Necrotic Senses (Ex): At first level the Necrotic Disciple's senses sharpen, at least in relation to Necrotic Cysts. The Disciple immediately knows if anyone they look upon is hosting a Necrotic Cyst. The Disciple cannot immediately distinguish between a Necrotic Cyst or Mother Cyst. To do so they must closely inspect the subject and make a DC 30 Knowledge (Arcana) check. The subject must be willing or incapacitated for this distinction to be made. Necrotic Reach (Ex): At second level the Necrotic Disciple gains the ability to shoot out tentacles of undead tissue from his physical body. These tentacles cannot be used to attack or grapple normally, but rather they allow the Necrotic Disciple to deliver touch attacks up to thirty feet away, in conjunction with the Necrotic Cyst spell. When not in use these tentacles withdraw into the Disciple's body, leaving sickly looking purple scars in their wake. Necrotic Awakening (Su): At fourth level, the Necrotic Disciple's Mother Cyst begins to experience brief moments of sentience. Once per day the Necrotic Disciple may cast a Necrotic Cyst spell (a spell granted by the Mother Cyst feat) as if quickened. At eighth level the Necrotic Disciple may use this ability three times a day. Necrotic Armor (Ex): At fifth level the Necrotic Disciple's Mother Cyst grows and expands under his skin, creating a layer of tough, undead muscle. This ability grants DR 2/Magic and Good to the Necrotic Disciple. At level 10, this DR increases to 4/Magic and Good. Necrotic Spell Focus (Ex): At seventh level the Necrotic Disciple begins to 'hear' the undercurrent of his Mother Cyst's thoughts. While mostly gibberish, occasionally these surface thoughts contain insight into the inner workings of the universe, specifically on matters of life and death. The DC for all spells granted by the Mother Cyst feat cast by the Necrotic Disciple increases by 1. Necrotic Infection (Su): At 9thth level, the Necrotic Disciple may, 1/day, add a Necrotic Cyst effect, as the spell of the same name to any necromancy spell he casts Done formatting for you (plus few small changes, like weapon and armor). My good 'ol thread with formattings and such was deleted due to inactivity :( (link still is there, in sticky post, listed as important...) And "my" thread was a recreation of alike deleted one from author I respect but not remember... so at least I can help the ones willing to format things right :] With this PrC, all characters planning to take it, will use substitution levels, trading their familiars for something they will not loose. Thus, first "ability", consume familiar, is simply pointless tormenting the rare players who wants to roleplay a familiar. Besides, looks kinda ok. Maybe add more necromancy spells to requirements? I.e. one for each spell level he has, not counting mother cyst's ones? Non-good requirement would be in line with D&D's necromancy look'n'feel, and the non-lawful might add "madman" taste to it. Just random thoughts. Necrotic Perfection - a big, big NO, unless you'll give sorcerers, warmages and alike benefit with similar strength. I just hate "wizzie-only" things in PrCs that don't built on wizzies basic look'n'feel. Especially things that let wizzies take a bit of sorcerer's power. Necrotic storage - Idea is great, but make it storage. Character should be able to put some spells into the storage during preparation time (or sorcerer's analog), having them "removed" from their normal daily uses and acecsible as SLA. Next day, he'd have full spells per day, plus stored SLA's (if he haven't used them up already). Just my thought on it. As a balancing factor, loosing 1 point of wisdom here and there wouldn't be *that* bad. Avoid increasing spell's DC. In 3.0 to 3.5 conversion handbook there was suggestion (afair) that 3.5 materials should add to caster level rather than to DC.
mod5000 06-12-07, 03:27 PM	Perhaps add into "Necrotic Perfection" the following for spontaneous casters? "If the character can already cast spells provided by the Mother Cyst feat spontaneously, they may instead add metamagic effects to those spells without lengthening the casting time."
Nephallim 06-12-07, 04:41 PM	Alright, added Necrotic Perfection with mod5000's suggested addition. Also, replaced Necrotic Spell Focus with Necrotic Spell Power, an ability I admit is pretty much cribbed from the Red Wizard of Thay from the DMG, although in this case, the bonus to effective CL only applies to spells gained from the Mother Cyst feat. I'm worried that Necrotic Perfection + Necrotic Spell Power results in a PrC that's too powerful...suggestions for an alternate capstone ability?
Molot 06-12-07, 05:11 PM	suggestion: paste the table to notepad. ensure that font is courier new or alike. format it there. paste to the post. Don't bother it looks screwed in edit window. save. enjoy. :)
Nephallim 06-13-07, 07:11 PM	Bump
teshen 06-13-07, 08:41 PM	Requirements To qualify to become a Necrotic Disciple, a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Alignment: Any Evil Skills: Knowledge (Religion) 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks Feats: Mother Cyst, Spell Focus (Necromancy), Great Fortitude. Spellcasting: Able to cast arcane spells of at least third level. So wizards can meet prerequistes at 5th and sorcerer types at 6th. Ok. So this means that Necrotic Perfection is a level 15/16+ ability. I don't figure it's too bad then. .Necrotic Perfection - a big, big NO, unless you'll give sorcerers, warmages and alike benefit with similar strength. I just hate "wizzie-only" things in PrCs that don't built on wizzies basic look'n'feel. Especially things that let wizzies take a bit of sorcerer's power. . . I agree. But the decreased metamagic time is already handled by a few fixes, one sorcerer substitution ability and one 9th level feat. Consider something both stronger and weaker at the same time... maybe let spells cast from mother cyst get +1 taken away from the total amount of metamagic added to each spell but no less than the normal level of the spell... like the (errata) arcane thesis for every mother cyst spell. This will mean every cyst spell a spontaneous caster fires off will have more punch. Just a thought. . . . With this PrC, all characters planning to take it, will use substitution levels, trading their familiars for something they will not loose. Thus, first "ability", consume familiar, is simply pointless tormenting the rare players who wants to roleplay a familiar. . . Actually, I think with elves it's the reverse. There's one substitution level you'd take because it affects your familiar... it doubles this bonus so an elven 'generalist' wizard can eat his ferret and have a permanent +4 to reflex. For the familiar friendly, consider adding some sort of undead change, like necropolitan for familiars... so that they can eventually be spell stitched. :evillaugh And if you're really worried about power with this prc, consider just hacking off a spellcaster level at level one. By the way... Good work here.
Molot 06-14-07, 01:12 AM	I agree. But the decreased metamagic time is already handled by a few fixes, one sorcerer substitution ability and one 9th level feat.And it wasn't even in the PrC when I was posting :] Consider something both stronger and weaker at the same time... maybe let spells cast from mother cyst get +1 taken away from the total amount of metamagic added to each spell but no less than the normal level of the spell... like the (errata) arcane thesis for every mother cyst spell. This will mean every cyst spell a spontaneous caster fires off will have more punch. Just a thought.I agree - that'd do the trick. Actually, I think with elves it's the reverse. There's one substitution level you'd take because it affects your familiar... it doubles this bonus so an elven 'generalist' wizard can eat his ferret and have a permanent +4 to reflex.When I was posting, consuming familiar gave you nothing (if I remember correctly). Now this ability does make some sence, but still - someone might love to RP familiar and I see no particular flavor reason not to allow it. For the familiar friendly, consider adding some sort of undead change, like necropolitan for familiars... so that they can eventually be spell stitched. :evillaugh Seconded by me ;) And if you're really worried about power with this prc, consider just hacking off a spellcaster level at level one.In my opinion not needed, but would prevent 1-level dips just to protect bonuses gained from familiar. By the way... Good work here.Good or not - debatable ;) But interesting enough for me to start posting, and that's a real rarity nowadays. And shameless off-topic: If you found my comments usefull, plz help me and [thread=865368]here.
Nephallim 06-14-07, 12:35 PM	Hm...I like the idea of the Necrotic Disciple "feeding" his familiar to his cyst to awaken it...so...consume familiar isn't coming out anytime soon. But, for compromise, how about a "companion cyst" ability at level 3? Give the Necrotic Disciple something resembling a Psicrystal, but a lump of undead bone and flesh instead of, well, a crystal? Have its abilities do things like add to his maximun HD of undead controlled. Also, what do folks think of the idea of Necrotic Perfection also allowing Necrotic Disciples to automatically be in control of Skulking Cysts they create as a result of their spells?
teshen 06-14-07, 05:28 PM	And it wasn't even in the PrC when I was posting :] I apologize. I guess I wasn't clear. I was agreeing with your statement about a lack of comparable power for spontaneous casters and suggesting to Nephallim an option to his wizard only ability. I didn't distinguish my comments well enough. When I was posting, consuming familiar gave you nothing (if I remember correctly). Now this ability does make some sence, but still - someone might love to RP familiar and I see no particular flavor reason not to allow it. I did 'jump in' late. I didn't see the original ability, but I am a fan of a few of the homebrew materials that has different options depending on different entries into the class... for example, the Consume Familiar could be Lesser necrotic metamorphosis... It could have a few minor abilities and you chose one. One could be your familiar gaining the undead template or another could be consuming the familiar as the original ability... I would also probably let consume familiar grant alertness in addition to the listed ability as the character's senses sharpen from the lesser feral soul he just merged with... but that could just be me. Good or not - debatable ;) But interesting enough for me to start posting, and that's a real rarity nowadays. True enough. When I say good, I particularly mean that I found them interesting. I'm usually not good about catching things that can slip through and create balance problems, but if the idea of something is interesting to me, I'll be willing give it a looksee and give it a suggestion or two for alterations... if the muse strikes.
Molot 06-14-07, 06:38 PM	Hm...I like the idea of the Necrotic Disciple "feeding" his familiar to his cyst to awaken it...so...consume familiar isn't coming out anytime soon.I did 'jump in' late. I didn't see the original ability, but I am a fan of a few of the homebrew materials that has different options depending on different entries into the class... for example, the Consume Familiar could be Lesser necrotic metamorphosis... It could have a few minor abilities and you chose one. One could be your familiar gaining the undead template or another could be consuming the familiar as the original ability... I would also probably let consume familiar grant alertness in addition to the listed ability as the character's senses sharpen from the lesser feral soul he just merged with... but that could just be me.Well - I'd prefer the way of choices teshen proposed, but with adding Alertness to the set Consume is fair enough. But you just have to specify what happens, if character without a familiar enters a PrC. What with the ones who trade it for bonus feats (various substitution levels)? What with characters with feats like draconic familiar - having familiar that is able to leave if he please?.. I'm kinda sure dragon would rather leave than let himself being eaten, so this duty may be simply impossible to accomplish. And what with situations I haven't imagined by now? But, for compromise, how about a "companion cyst" ability at level 3? Give the Necrotic Disciple something resembling a Psicrystal, but a lump of undead bone and flesh instead of, well, a crystal? Have its abilities do things like add to his maximun HD of undead controlled.Seems interesting, might work well. Also, what do folks think of the idea of Necrotic Perfection also allowing Necrotic Disciples to automatically be in control of Skulking Cysts they create as a result of their spells?No opinion, sorry. Not half an hour after midnight (my local time) True enough. When I say good, I particularly mean that I found them interesting. I'm usually not good about catching things that can slip through and create balance problems, but if the idea of something is interesting to me, I'll be willing give it a looksee and give it a suggestion or two for alterations... if the muse strikes.The more of us, the less chance for any problems to slip thorough our mental tests ;)
Nephallim 06-14-07, 06:48 PM	Added more flavor text. Had another thought: remove Necrotic Armor completely and add 3-4 bonus feats over the course of the PrC, from the following list: Tomb-Tainted Soul, Tomb-Born Fortitude, Tomb-Born Resilience, Tomb-Born Vitality, Necromantic Presence, Necromantic Might. Thoughts?
Molot 06-14-07, 07:05 PM	Naah. This is PrC, it should offer things hard or (better) impossible to get otherwise.
teshen 06-14-07, 08:33 PM	Hm...I like the idea of the Necrotic Disciple "feeding" his familiar to his cyst to awaken it...so...consume familiar isn't coming out anytime soon. I understand that it fits the flavor, but there is little in the class that says 'awakened' if you catch my meaning. Your cyst becomes a more powerful tool with the quicken and what not... but there is little that says sentience... and with the feel of this class, you probably want to avoid giving your cyst any free will. :eek: That said, I think the cyst should be able to do something on it's own... but I'm not sure what. The schism power comes to mind... but that would be too much. Maybe something like the synad ability to take a purely mental action that happens in addition to the rest of the character's actions. But, for compromise, how about a "companion cyst" ability at level 3? Give the Necrotic Disciple something resembling a Psicrystal, but a lump of undead bone and flesh instead of, well, a crystal? Have its abilities do things like add to his maximun HD of undead controlled. No. Please no. I just get this image of unliving gristle following you like a snail, or worse, floating around dripping gore. Of course if you absolutely have to have a familiar type... consider homunculus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/homunculus.htm). You may have something there, though, with some effect to increase the HD of undead you can control... Also, what do folks think of the idea of Necrotic Perfection also allowing Necrotic Disciples to automatically be in control of Skulking Cysts they create as a result of their spells? As Molot, I'm not sure of enough of these spells to tell whether it is a good idea or a bad idea... Had another thought: remove Necrotic Armor completely and add 3-4 bonus feats over the course of the PrC, from the following list: Tomb-Tainted Soul, Tomb-Born Fortitude, Tomb-Born Resilience, Tomb-Born Vitality, Necromantic Presence, Necromantic Might. Thoughts?Giving out feats is like giving out a gift card when you could have put in the time to find something more original. So far, the necrotic armor seems cool without seeming overpowered. Although the tomb feats would dovetail well enough with the class, I'd suggest you keep what you have in their place so far. Now you could extend the uses for necrotic reach :gah: ... :devil: ...but I can't continue with that comment with a clear conscience.
Nephallim 06-15-07, 01:54 AM	When I first concieved of Necrotic Reach, it was originally a cookie cutter copy of the Archmage reach ability. A friend advised that I change it to work only in the context intended: to extend the range of Necrotic Cyst. As far as most of the Disciple's class abilities...the idea is that the Mother Cyst is growing and becoming sentient to a limited extent. Necrotic Awakening represents, for example, the Cyst becoming able to, with great effort, act independently from the host. It is, however, always subservient to the host...perhaps its personality is an imprint of the host's? I personally like the Companion Cyst idea because it further represents this 'awakening.' Anyway, its late where I am. I'll post completed ideas for the Companion Cyst later.
Nephallim 06-15-07, 03:32 PM	Companion Cyst (Sp): At 3rd level a Necrotic Disciple gains the ability to cause his Mother Cyst to divide, regurgitating out a sentient lump of undead bone and gristle that serves the Disciple faithfully. This process is excruciatingly painful, taking 24 hours. At the end of the Companion Cyst's expulsion the Necrotic Disciple takes two points of temporary constitution damage, which heals at the normal rate of 1 every 24 hours. A Companion Cyst grants special abilities to its owner, as shown on the Companion Cyst Special Abilities table below. In addition, a Companion Cyst has a personality (being a fragment of the Mother Cyst's flesh and the Necrotic Disciple's soul), which gives its owner a bonus on certain types of checks or saving throws, as given on the Companion Cyst Personalities table below. These special abilities and bonuses apply only when the owner and the Companion Cyst are within one mile of eachother. Companion Cyst abilities are based on the owner's levels in psionic classes. Levels from other classes do not count toward the owner's level for purposes of Companion Cyst abilities. A Companion Cyst speaks the owner's native language. A Companion Cyst can understand all other languages known by its owner, but cannot speak them. This is a supernatural ability. Saving Throws: A Companion Cyst uses its owner's base saving throw bonuses and ability modifiers on saves, though it doesn't enjoy any other bonuses its owner might have (from magic items or feats, for example). Abilities: When its self-propulsion ability is not activated, a Companion Cyst has no Strength score and no Dexterity score. Skills: A Companion Cyst has the same skill ranks as its owner, except that it has a minimum of 4 ranks each in Spot, Listen, Move Silently, and Search. (Even if its owner has no rans in these skills, a Companion Cyst has 4 ranks in each.) A Companion Cyst uses its own ability modifiers on skill checks. Companion Cyst Special Abilities Owner Natural Int Level Armor Adj. Adj. Special 1st-2nd +0 +0 Alertness, improved evasion, personality, self-propulsion, share spells, life-sight, necrotic link 3rd-4th +1 +1 Deliver touch spells 5th-6th +2 +2 Necrotic speach 7th-8th +3 +3 -- 9th-10th +4 +4 Flight 11th-12th +5 +5 Spell resistance 13th-14th +6 +6 Sight link 15th-16th +7 +7 Channel spell 17th-18th +8 +8 19th-20th +9 +9 ((The observant will realize that this is basically the same as the Psicrystal Affinity feat, thus far. Suggestions on different/alternate abilities to give the Companion Cyst? I'm considering scaling down a good bit of its abilities (SR, speach, flight) and having Channel spell only work with Mother Cyst spells. Thoughts?))
Nephallim 06-16-07, 09:16 PM	Bumpity bump?
Molot 06-17-07, 06:01 AM	I'm still waiting for answer on that: But you just have to specify what happens, if character without a familiar enters a PrC. What with the ones who trade it for bonus feats (various substitution levels)? What with characters with feats like draconic familiar - having familiar that is able to leave if he please?.. I'm kinda sure dragon would rather leave than let himself being eaten, so this duty may be simply impossible to accomplish. And what with situations I haven't imagined by now?
Nephallim 06-17-07, 01:21 PM	Well...there are two options the way I see it: 1. Require that the Necrotic Disciple have a familiar to enter the PrC. If its an imporved familiar, then have the Disciple gain a permanent bonus based on its type. If its a familiar that can willingly leave, then the Disciple would have to subdue it willingly and forcibly "feed" it to his Cyst. 2. Don't require that the Necrotic Disciple have a familiar to enter the PrC. Keep the bonus gained from Consume Familiar, so as to reward some players for losing a resource they used. If they didn't use it, they're not losing anything. X. In both cases, either give or don't give the Companion Cyst ability.
teshen 06-18-07, 03:21 AM	Companion Cyst (Sp): At 3rd level a Necrotic Disciple gains the ability to cause his Mother Cyst to divide, regurgitating out a sentient lump of undead bone and gristle that serves the Disciple faithfully. This process is excruciatingly painful, taking 24 hours. At the end of the Companion Cyst's expulsion the Necrotic Disciple takes two points of temporary constitution damage, which heals at the normal rate of 1 every 24 hours. A Companion Cyst grants special abilities to its owner, as shown on the Companion Cyst Special Abilities table below. In addition, a Companion Cyst has a personality (being a fragment of the Mother Cyst's flesh and the Necrotic Disciple's soul), which gives its owner a bonus on certain types of checks or saving throws, as given on the Companion Cyst Personalities table below. These special abilities and bonuses apply only when the owner and the Companion Cyst are within one mile of eachother. Companion Cyst abilities are based on the owner's levels in psionic classes. Levels from other classes do not count toward the owner's level for purposes of Companion Cyst abilities. A Companion Cyst speaks the owner's native language. A Companion Cyst can understand all other languages known by its owner, but cannot speak them. This is a supernatural ability. Saving Throws: A Companion Cyst uses its owner's base saving throw bonuses and ability modifiers on saves, though it doesn't enjoy any other bonuses its owner might have (from magic items or feats, for example). Abilities: When its self-propulsion ability is not activated, a Companion Cyst has no Strength score and no Dexterity score. Skills: A Companion Cyst has the same skill ranks as its owner, except that it has a minimum of 4 ranks each in Spot, Listen, Move Silently, and Search. (Even if its owner has no rans in these skills, a Companion Cyst has 4 ranks in each.) A Companion Cyst uses its own ability modifiers on skill checks. Companion Cyst Special Abilities Owner Natural Int Level Armor Adj. Adj. Special 1st-2nd +0 +0 Alertness, improved evasion, personality, self-propulsion, share spells, life-sight, necrotic link 3rd-4th +1 +1 Deliver touch spells 5th-6th +2 +2 Necrotic speach 7th-8th +3 +3 -- 9th-10th +4 +4 Flight 11th-12th +5 +5 Spell resistance 13th-14th +6 +6 Sight link 15th-16th +7 +7 Channel spell 17th-18th +8 +8 19th-20th +9 +9 ((The observant will realize that this is basically the same as the Psicrystal Affinity feat, thus far. Suggestions on different/alternate abilities to give the Companion Cyst? I'm considering scaling down a good bit of its abilities (SR, speach, flight) and having Channel spell only work with Mother Cyst spells. Thoughts?)) I understand that you are using the psicrystal as the starting point... but you'll need to differenciate it more... Using channel spell for only mother cyst spells is good. What would necrotic speech apply to? Flight makes no sense to me for a lump of flesh. Consider mettle in place of the improved evasion... this makes more sense to me with undead... but I could be wrong. Personality and sight link don't make sense to me here either... but you could throw in, as you said, a boost to undead checks of some sort, like the hd you could command... As for the familiar thing... why familiar? The Disciple could just as easily sacrifice a captured animal of any sort... or even somebody. All of the sudden, I picture the cyst 'awakening' as looking kind of like the thing on Vampire hunter D's hand... and it could just devour a large amount of flesh of any sort. I understand that you think the idea of sacrificing your familiar is cool... and it does have a certain thematic appeal. But the cyst and the familiar don't have to be mutually exclusive.
Molot 06-18-07, 12:20 PM	I understand that you think the idea of sacrificing your familiar is cool... and it does have a certain thematic appeal. But the cyst and the familiar don't have to be mutually exclusive.I can only second that.
Nephallim 06-18-07, 01:46 PM	The idea of sacrificing the familiar is because the familiar is somehow bound and spiritually connected to a character. A Necrotic Disciple with a familiar must sacrifice the creature that has this bond in order to invest that bond to the Mother Cyst. As written at the moment, a character without a familiar must still invest the Mother Cyst with the bond, causing him to be unable to summon a familiar. The Companion Cyst would have a personality because its spark of (undead) spiritual energy comes from the Disciple, so it would possess a splinter of the Disciple's personality, much like a Psion imprints their personality on their crystal. The Companion Cyst isn't something like a familiar that comes from outside the character. It comes from within. Necrotic speech would give the Companion Cyst the ability to speak, or the ability to let the Necrotic Disciple speak through it. Instead of flight, perhaps give the Companion Cyst Necrotic Cyst as a spell-like? Maybe 1/day/every two class levels of the Necrotic Disciple?