New PrC: The Ambusher [Archive] - Wizards Community

New PrC: The Ambusher [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Endarrion
11-19-07, 08:59 PM The Ambusher

HD: d8

Requirements
To qualify to become an ambusher, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Base Attack Bonus: +3
Skills: Hide 8 ranks, Move Silently 8 ranks, Knowledge (geography) 2 ranks.
Special: Sneak Attack +2d6 OR skirmish class ability +1d6, +1 AC.

Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1st +0 +0 +2 +0 Sneak attack +1d6, masterful ambush
2nd +1 +0 +3 +0 Camouflage, improved initiative
3rd +2 +1 +3 +1 Sneak attack +2d6, uncanny dodge
4th +3 +1 +4 +1 Greater improved initiative
5th +3 +1 +4 +1 Sneak attack +3d6, perfect ambush

CLASS SKILS
The ambusher’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering), Knowledge (geography), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), and Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.

CLASS FEATURES
All of the following are class features of the ambusher prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Ambushers gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Sneak Attack: As the rogue ability of the same name. The ambusher gains +1d6 sneak attack at 1st level and then again at 3rd and 5th level.
Masterful Ambush: When you attack a creature during a surprise round or the first round of combat before the creature has acted in the round, you gain a +2 bonus on attack rolls.
Camouflage: An ambusher can use the Hide skill in any sort of terrain (natural or otherwise), even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment.
Improved Initiative: The ambusher counts on quick thinking and quick acting to survive. You gain the Improved Initiative feat for free at second level. If you already have this feat, the bonus from Improved Initiative increases to +6.
Uncanny Dodge: As the rogue ability of the same name. If you already possess uncanny dodge from a different class, you automatically gain improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank you.
Greater Improved Initiative: The bonus from your improved initiative feat increases to +6. If you gained the increase at second level, the bonus from greater improved initiative instead increases to +8.
Perfect Ambush: The ambusher’s training culminates in this final tactic. When you act in a surprise round, you are not restricted to a single standard action as normal. You may take a normal round’s worth of actions. Also, your bonus on attack rolls from masterful ambush increases to +4.

And there you have it. Really, this class is flavored just as its name (a bad one, I know) suggests: it's all about flat-footed attacking and surprise rounds. Getting the jump on the enemy and some abilities to back that up.

What I need feedback on is:
1) Hitdie and BAB: are they right for the class? It's obviously combat oriented, but focused on surprise tactics and the sneak attack.
2) Skill points and skill selection: do they make sense for the class thematically? I'm fairly certain, but what do YOU think?
3) Are the prereqs fair and do they fit thematically? I couldn't for the life of me think of any feat prereqs except Imp Init, which I like more as a free feat/improvement, although making it a prereq and then just improving it later might be the way to go.
4) Most importantly perhaps; are the class abilities worthwhile and fairly balanced? I made this a 5 level PrC because the capstone, while it fits the theme, isn't too powerful. I really couldn't see this stretching over 10 levels. Do the abilities come at the right time? Etc.

Thank you to anyone who takes the time to respond.
Endarrion
11-21-07, 05:47 PM Little :bump:

Updated prereqs to include sneak attack +2d6 OR skirmish +1d6, +1 AC to allow scouts easier access.
Wall
11-22-07, 06:49 PM It's a good idea, I like it.

Now, about the HD and BAB, since you asked about that specifically. It is my opinion that the BAB should be raised and the HD lowered. Afterall, the class is about taking on opponents that don't see you coming, so I don't really see them getting much staying power. D6, I think. And the raised BAB would make up for the lack of skill points compared to the base classes that would enter this class.

Questions 2-4: Yes, yes, and yes.

Question 5, on the topic of class features and balance. It actually strikes me as a little weak. Only a little. I'm just thinking about what you're taking from the rogue or scout to gain from this.

First off, I think you should put the "Hide in Plain Sight" ability in there, regardless of whether or not you expand the class. Perfect ability for ambush, no? Secondly, I'm thinking about the capstone ability of the Iaijutsu Master: wherein you get your own surprise round if you meet certain conditions. If you decide to expand, definitely consider something like that.

Finally, your class is viable as is. But my suggestions: Full BAB, d6 HD, and Hide in Plain sight.
Tema69
11-22-07, 07:45 PM I agree with Wall, give it a high BAB, or a large bonus to attack rolls within the first few rounds of combat, but lower the HD. Hide in Plain Sight would be a good addition.
ArkhamInmate
11-23-07, 03:05 AM pretty much everything they said is right, though i do believe you can pretty much play this class as is, and i think i really like the idea of giving this to my scout so i can both skirmish and sneak attack
Endarrion
11-23-07, 11:36 AM Thanks for the replies!

Alright, a higher BAB and a lower hitdie, huh? I was contemplating doing that. I thought the class came off as a bit weak as well.

What about, instead of gaining a +4 to attacks with perfect ambush, every attack that hit was a critical threat? Would that be too much?

And where should the Hide In Plain Sight ability go? Should it replace camouflage?

Thanks again everyone.
Windspear
11-23-07, 11:52 AM Give the first attck a higher critical range, and I don't think it should replace camouflage.

Good class, very nice idea. What I would do is use flanking somehow. Bonuses for flanking could be a very nice addition to the class.
Wall
11-23-07, 04:38 PM What about, instead of gaining a +4 to attacks with perfect ambush, every attack that hit was a critical threat? Would that be too much?

Not too much at all, I think that'd be a great capstone ability.

And where should the Hide In Plain Sight ability go? Should it replace camouflage?

Hmm. Perhaps, at 4th level, with Greater Improved Initiative.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Endarrion 11-19-07, 08:59 PM	The Ambusher HD: d8 Requirements To qualify to become an ambusher, a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Base Attack Bonus: +3 Skills: Hide 8 ranks, Move Silently 8 ranks, Knowledge (geography) 2 ranks. Special: Sneak Attack +2d6 OR skirmish class ability +1d6, +1 AC. Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 1st +0 +0 +2 +0 Sneak attack +1d6, masterful ambush 2nd +1 +0 +3 +0 Camouflage, improved initiative 3rd +2 +1 +3 +1 Sneak attack +2d6, uncanny dodge 4th +3 +1 +4 +1 Greater improved initiative 5th +3 +1 +4 +1 Sneak attack +3d6, perfect ambush CLASS SKILS The ambusher’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering), Knowledge (geography), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), and Tumble (Dex). Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier. CLASS FEATURES All of the following are class features of the ambusher prestige class. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Ambushers gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor. Sneak Attack: As the rogue ability of the same name. The ambusher gains +1d6 sneak attack at 1st level and then again at 3rd and 5th level. Masterful Ambush: When you attack a creature during a surprise round or the first round of combat before the creature has acted in the round, you gain a +2 bonus on attack rolls. Camouflage: An ambusher can use the Hide skill in any sort of terrain (natural or otherwise), even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment. Improved Initiative: The ambusher counts on quick thinking and quick acting to survive. You gain the Improved Initiative feat for free at second level. If you already have this feat, the bonus from Improved Initiative increases to +6. Uncanny Dodge: As the rogue ability of the same name. If you already possess uncanny dodge from a different class, you automatically gain improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank you. Greater Improved Initiative: The bonus from your improved initiative feat increases to +6. If you gained the increase at second level, the bonus from greater improved initiative instead increases to +8. Perfect Ambush: The ambusher’s training culminates in this final tactic. When you act in a surprise round, you are not restricted to a single standard action as normal. You may take a normal round’s worth of actions. Also, your bonus on attack rolls from masterful ambush increases to +4. And there you have it. Really, this class is flavored just as its name (a bad one, I know) suggests: it's all about flat-footed attacking and surprise rounds. Getting the jump on the enemy and some abilities to back that up. What I need feedback on is: 1) Hitdie and BAB: are they right for the class? It's obviously combat oriented, but focused on surprise tactics and the sneak attack. 2) Skill points and skill selection: do they make sense for the class thematically? I'm fairly certain, but what do YOU think? 3) Are the prereqs fair and do they fit thematically? I couldn't for the life of me think of any feat prereqs except Imp Init, which I like more as a free feat/improvement, although making it a prereq and then just improving it later might be the way to go. 4) Most importantly perhaps; are the class abilities worthwhile and fairly balanced? I made this a 5 level PrC because the capstone, while it fits the theme, isn't too powerful. I really couldn't see this stretching over 10 levels. Do the abilities come at the right time? Etc. Thank you to anyone who takes the time to respond.
Endarrion 11-21-07, 05:47 PM	Little :bump: Updated prereqs to include sneak attack +2d6 OR skirmish +1d6, +1 AC to allow scouts easier access.
Wall 11-22-07, 06:49 PM	It's a good idea, I like it. Now, about the HD and BAB, since you asked about that specifically. It is my opinion that the BAB should be raised and the HD lowered. Afterall, the class is about taking on opponents that don't see you coming, so I don't really see them getting much staying power. D6, I think. And the raised BAB would make up for the lack of skill points compared to the base classes that would enter this class. Questions 2-4: Yes, yes, and yes. Question 5, on the topic of class features and balance. It actually strikes me as a little weak. Only a little. I'm just thinking about what you're taking from the rogue or scout to gain from this. First off, I think you should put the "Hide in Plain Sight" ability in there, regardless of whether or not you expand the class. Perfect ability for ambush, no? Secondly, I'm thinking about the capstone ability of the Iaijutsu Master: wherein you get your own surprise round if you meet certain conditions. If you decide to expand, definitely consider something like that. Finally, your class is viable as is. But my suggestions: Full BAB, d6 HD, and Hide in Plain sight.
Tema69 11-22-07, 07:45 PM	I agree with Wall, give it a high BAB, or a large bonus to attack rolls within the first few rounds of combat, but lower the HD. Hide in Plain Sight would be a good addition.
ArkhamInmate 11-23-07, 03:05 AM	pretty much everything they said is right, though i do believe you can pretty much play this class as is, and i think i really like the idea of giving this to my scout so i can both skirmish and sneak attack
Endarrion 11-23-07, 11:36 AM	Thanks for the replies! Alright, a higher BAB and a lower hitdie, huh? I was contemplating doing that. I thought the class came off as a bit weak as well. What about, instead of gaining a +4 to attacks with perfect ambush, every attack that hit was a critical threat? Would that be too much? And where should the Hide In Plain Sight ability go? Should it replace camouflage? Thanks again everyone.
Windspear 11-23-07, 11:52 AM	Give the first attck a higher critical range, and I don't think it should replace camouflage. Good class, very nice idea. What I would do is use flanking somehow. Bonuses for flanking could be a very nice addition to the class.
Wall 11-23-07, 04:38 PM	What about, instead of gaining a +4 to attacks with perfect ambush, every attack that hit was a critical threat? Would that be too much? Not too much at all, I think that'd be a great capstone ability. And where should the Hide In Plain Sight ability go? Should it replace camouflage? Hmm. Perhaps, at 4th level, with Greater Improved Initiative.