Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Antheros 03-16-07, 09:26 PM	Hello everybody! I just created this PrC but I think it's perhaps over-powered. I'd like to have some advice on it. Prestige class: Promethean Warlock Legends tell of the Titan Prometheus who stole the fire from the gods and gave it to the humans so they could gain some mesure of divine power. Some didn't forget the tale and managed to emulate this audacious feat themselves, they are called the promethean warlocks. They risk the wrath of the gods themselves by stealing the very essence of the outter planes to empower their magic, minds, bodies and souls, until gaining a likeness of godhood themselves. Requirement: Any chaotic; Knowledge (arcane): 8 ranks; Knowledge (religion): 12 ranks; Knowledge (the planes): 8 ranks; Eldritch Blast (4d6); Brimstone blast invocation. Class skills: As warlock Skill points at each level: 2 + Int modifier. Weapons and Armor proficiency: A promethean warlock doesn't gain any weapon or armor proficienciy. Promethean Warlock Hit die: d6 Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spellcasting 1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Godfire Blast +2d6 (Sp), Divine vulnerability (Ex) 2 +1 +0 +0 +3 Divine emulation: Divine Resilience (Su), Divine retribution (Su), + 1 level of Invocation using class 3 +2 +1 +1 +3 Divine emulation: Divine grace (Su) + 1 level of Invocation using class 4 +2 +1 +1 +4 Divine emulation: Divine mind (Su) + 1 level of Invocation using class 5 +3 +1 +1 +4 Godfire Blast +4d6, Timeless Body, Divine touch (Sp) 6 +4 +2 +2 +5 Divine emulation: Divine aura (Su) + 1 level of Invocation using class 7 +5 +2 +2 +5 Divine emulation: Divine body (Su) + 1 level of Invocation using class 8 +6 +2 +2 +6 Divine emulation: Divine soul (Su) + 1 level of Invocation using class 9 +6 +3 +3 +6 Divine sustenance (Ex), Spell resistance (Ex), Divine wrath (Su) 10 +7 +3 +3 +7 Apotheosis, Godfire blast +6d6, Divine Will (1/week) + 1 level of Invocation using class Special abilities: -Invocations: A promethean warlock gains invocations known and increases in caster level each time she gains a level of invocation using class. Her eldritch blast inreases by 1d6 every two level of promethean warlock; so a 8 level warlock/10 level PW has a 9d6 eldritch blast. -Godfire blast: The promethean warlock can use the divine energy of the outter planes to empower her eldritch blast once every 1d4 round. The use of this ability will daze the PW for two round: the round she uses it and the next. -Divine Vulnerability: The promethean warlock has a penalty of +50% on any damage originated from clerical magic. -Divine Emulation: A promethean warlock can activate one of these supernatural abilities for 1 hour, or until dismissed. She cannot have more than one Divine emulation activated at any time. This ability is activated or dismissed as a standard action. The promethean warlock can use this ability a number of times per day equal to her promethean warlock level + her charisma modifier if positive. -Divine Resilience: The promethean warlock gains regeneration 1, she can regrow losts body parts in 2d4 rounds. -Divine Grace: The promethean warlock gains a deflection bonus to her AC equal to her charisma bonus if any. -Divine Mind: The promethean warlock gains immunity to all mind-affecting effect. -Divine Aura: The promethean warlock's allies gain a bonus on all saving throws equal to her charisma bonus if any, in a 20feet wide radius. -Divine body: The Promethean warlock gains immunity to all transmutation effects. -Divine Soul: The Promethean warlock gains the effect of the Deathward spell. -Timeless body: The promethean warlock no longer ages, she no longer gains penalties due to aging but continues to gain the bonuses and cannot be aged magically. She cannot die of old age and can exist eternally if not killed. -Divine touch: A promethean warlock of 5th level can use cure minor wounds as a spell-like ability at will, or cure light wound every 1d4+1 rounds. -Divine sustenance: The promethean warlock no longer need to eat, drink or breath. -Spell resistance: The promethean warlock gains spell-resistance of 5 + Invocation-using class level. -Divine wrath: A promethean warlock of 9th level can once a day emit a burst of divine energy that inflict 12d8 of damages to all creatures within 30 feet of her. A succeeded reflex throw halves the damage (DC 10 + promethean warlock level + charisma modifier).She becomes exhausted after using this ability. (Su) -Apotheosis: The promethean warlock's type changes to Outsider (native). She gains damage reduction 10/lawful. -Divine Will: The promethean warlock can use Limited wish as a spell-like ability once per week. She must still expend the XPs needed to cast the spell.
Zodiaq7 03-17-07, 02:13 PM	So, how many of these "emulations" does a PW get at any given level? Do they replace Invocations? What are the saving throws for the damaging or enemy affecting powers?? The class now is as clear as mud. NOt trying to be mean, just asking for some more structure.
navar100 03-17-07, 02:41 PM	It's unclear. Does the character increase in eldritch blast damage and invocations known? You are also punishing the character for taking the class, what with +50% damage from cleric spells and a chance of being stunned for having the audacity to use its class abilities. Also, taking wisdom damage for a mere couple of d6 damage? I don't even like that consitution damage for Hellfire Warlock. I'm getting the impression you want to give the character a lot of good stuff like death ward or mind blank equivalence but to "balance" it you give it harsh penalties. As Shrek would say you're "compensating for something". Also, the class has lots of defenses but no real offensive capability. Eldritch Blast is not increasing, and you are penalized for using godfire. Also, I think Brimstone Blast would be a better prerequisite than 4d6 Eldritch Blast to go with the theme of Prometheus.
WinterPsionic 03-17-07, 02:52 PM	...the Code tag is your friend... Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spellcasting 1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Godfire Blast +2d6 (Sp), Divine vulnerability (Ex) 2 +1 +0 +0 +3 Divine emulation: Divine Resilience (Su), Divine retribution (Su), + 1 level of Invocation using class 3 +2 +1 +1 +3 Divine emulation: Divine grace (Su) + 1 level of Invocation using class 4 +2 +1 +1 +4 Divine emulation: Divine mind (Su) + 1 level of Invocation using class 5 +3 +1 +1 +4 Godfire Blast +4d6, Timeless Body, Divine touch (Sp) 6 +4 +2 +2 +5 Divine emulation: Divine aura (Su) + 1 level of Invocation using class 7 +5 +2 +2 +5 Divine emulation: Divine body (Su) + 1 level of Invocation using class 8 +6 +2 +2 +6 Divine emulation: Divine soul (Su) + 1 level of Invocation using class 9 +6 +3 +3 +6 Divine sustenance (Ex), Spell resistance (Ex), Divine wrath (Su) 10 +7 +3 +3 +7 Apotheosis, Godfire blast +6d6, Divine Will (1/month) + 1 level of Invocation using class And granted it was hard to read but the +1 level of Invocation using class was a pretty prevalent class ability...
Antheros 03-17-07, 05:04 PM	So, how many of these "emulations" does a PW get at any given level? Do they replace Invocations? What are the saving throws for the damaging or enemy affecting powers?? The class now is as clear as mud. NOt trying to be mean, just asking for some more structure. The answer is in the text: The promethean warlock can use this ability a number of times per day equal to her promethean warlock level + her charisma modifier if positive. Sorry if I am unclear, english is not my first langage.
Zodiaq7 03-17-07, 05:18 PM	Ah, so they gain one at each level specified, and can use them so mant imes per day. Gotcha.
Antheros 03-17-07, 05:19 PM	Well, my DM told me that the first version of this PrC was much too powerful and that I needed to balance its numerous abilities. Do you think I did too well ?:( The eldritch blast and invocations known do progress however, each time the promethean warlock gain a level of invocation-using class. I'll add it.
Antheros 03-17-07, 05:21 PM	:D Thanks for the help!:D
WinterPsionic 03-17-07, 06:02 PM	Ok well now that's I've had a chance to review the class I can say I agree with your DM, it is CONSIDERABLY overpowered. A few quick suggestions about balance: 1. Godfire gives to much for to little, take the Hellfire Warlock for example, +2D6 damage by burning a point of Constitution, this provides a considerably more balanced penalty then a point of Wisdom. Either reduce the rate Godfire builds at. 2. The size of the aura for that kind of bonus is ridiculous, in most cases auras don't reach more then 20ft. Either cut the bonus in half or cut the aura down to a more average size. 3. Timeless body, while thematically it makes since, mechanically it probably hurts as much as it helps with your current build. 4. Divine Touch, using Cure Light as will is a MAJOR bonus, I'd have to suggest limiting it to 3/activation and no more then 3 activations/day. 5. The SR is pretty high, especially with the rate you grant +1 to the invocation casting level, if were were to exclude this bonus then I could see it working. 6. The damage done by Divine Wrath sets it as a considerable contender, at most it should be 1/day with that kind of damage. And last but not least Apotheosis, grant DR15 againt anything out of the blue is insane, most epic creatures I've seen in 3.5 don't exceed DR 10 against one or two things. A build like this should be used for the BBEG in a campaign, not a player, as written this could be considered a deity level class.
Antheros 03-17-07, 10:30 PM	Is it better now? A cure minor wounds, even at will, cannot be broken! Or can it?
Grod_The_Giant 03-17-07, 10:42 PM	Is it better now? A cure minor wounds, even at will, cannot be broken! Or can it? There was a long debate on this...the rationalization being that, even if useless in combat, it lets you heal large ammounts of damage over time. 1 HP/round=10 HP/minute=600 HP/hour. That's enough to fully heal just about anything short of an epic creature.
WinterPsionic 03-17-07, 11:12 PM	Is it better now? A cure minor wounds, even at will, cannot be broken! Or can it? Much better, I won't argue the semantics involved with allowing Cure Minor @ will simply because the rate of restoration isn't high enough for me to consider overpowered.
navar100 03-18-07, 12:17 AM	...the Code tag is your friend... Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spellcasting 1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Godfire Blast +2d6 (Sp), Divine vulnerability (Ex) 2 +1 +0 +0 +3 Divine emulation: Divine Resilience (Su), Divine retribution (Su), + 1 level of Invocation using class 3 +2 +1 +1 +3 Divine emulation: Divine grace (Su) + 1 level of Invocation using class 4 +2 +1 +1 +4 Divine emulation: Divine mind (Su) + 1 level of Invocation using class 5 +3 +1 +1 +4 Godfire Blast +4d6, Timeless Body, Divine touch (Sp) 6 +4 +2 +2 +5 Divine emulation: Divine aura (Su) + 1 level of Invocation using class 7 +5 +2 +2 +5 Divine emulation: Divine body (Su) + 1 level of Invocation using class 8 +6 +2 +2 +6 Divine emulation: Divine soul (Su) + 1 level of Invocation using class 9 +6 +3 +3 +6 Divine sustenance (Ex), Spell resistance (Ex), Divine wrath (Su) 10 +7 +3 +3 +7 Apotheosis, Godfire blast +6d6, Divine Will (1/month) + 1 level of Invocation using class And granted it was hard to read but the +1 level of Invocation using class was a pretty prevalent class ability... Ok. I'll call it my bad because I was using a different computer than what I normally use, such as now, where the monitor I was using does not display things as clearly. I take back "compensating for something". :embarrass It was meant as a joke, anyway. Increasing the eldritch blast and invocation is good. I'm still troubled by the wisdom penalty to use godfire blast and the chance of stunning for using a prestige class ability. In general, I'm not keen on any class ability that "punishes" you for using it. "Punishes" is vague, because even using a simple Power Attack you take a penalty to hit, and I don't count that as punishing. At best, I can define it as a cost to do something that is worse than the benefit gained, and even that is probably just a personal preference depending upon the cost/gain.
Antheros 03-18-07, 08:33 AM	There was a long debate on this...the rationalization being that, even if useless in combat, it lets you heal large ammounts of damage over time. 1 HP/round=10 HP/minute=600 HP/hour. That's enough to fully heal just about anything short of an epic creature. Well an Incarnate can do something like that, too.;)
WinterPsionic 03-18-07, 11:35 AM	Well an Incarnate can do something like that, too.;) :confused: I think I missed that part of the class...next time you have a chance please explain.
Antheros 03-18-07, 03:13 PM	:embarrass My mistake. Bad reading of the lifebond vestment soulmeld. Have to progress quickly in english.
Antheros 08-05-07, 03:06 PM	I finally tested the prestige class in a game and encountered some nasty problems with it, so I decided to edit it. What do you think of the new version?
tarrandivinity 11-26-07, 02:37 AM	There was a long debate on this...the rationalization being that, even if useless in combat, it lets you heal large ammounts of damage over time. 1 HP/round=10 HP/minute=600 HP/hour. That's enough to fully heal just about anything short of an epic creature. But you should also consider, even though its cure MINOR wounds, its still a constant casting of magic... something that realistically would take a lot of energy. casting that often, even such a low spell would be equal to say, running the 100 meter dash every minute for an hour. sure on the table it looks super, but the DM should take physical endurance and apply common sense. short of ritual casting of some kind, i can't see anyone even a high level wizard being able to maintain the concentration and stamina to put out a spell every round for an hour or even 10 minutes. remember that most combats might take ten minutes to an hour to complete (depending on numbers and rolls), but in game time they take minutes at most. large scale battles might take hours of game time, but its mostly posturing and feint/parries.