Order of the Crossbow Initiate [Archive] - Wizards Community

Order of the Crossbow Initiate [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheBlackPaladin
07-17-07, 03:08 PM For those who don't know this prestige class, all of the abilities apply to all ranged weapons, although the requirements to take it are bow specific. To switch the class to crossbows should be as easy as changing the Craft (bowmaking) to Craft (weaponsmithing) and the Weapon Focus from a bow to a crossbow. The one I don't know how to fix is Rapid Shot. I'm thinking Rapid Reload, but I wanted to see what you guys would think about all of this.

For me, it seems that this prestige class would work very well for a crossbow fighter, because the Ranged Precision ability takes a standard action, allowing for only one attack, which is not a problem for somebody already used to that. Please tell me what you think.
foxtail
07-17-07, 03:19 PM Rapid Reload would be a good alternate prerequisite, since it would make the standard action required for Ranged Precision an acceptable trade-off. The only problem I see is if someone enters this class using the Heavy Crossbow, which, even after applying that feat, has to be reloaded as a move action, and consequently fired as a standard action in any case; there would be no downside to using Ranged Precision turn after turn.

My DM and I put together a prestige class for my pistol-packing Gondar in an FR campaign, borrowing heavily from the OotBI adding some extra flair. The house rule in effect there is that Rapid Reload can be applied to firearms (making the reload time a move action rather than a standard action), and the tradeoff for the PrC is that my Ranged Precision-like ability requires a full-round action; a similar caveat could be applied to the heavy crossbow in your case.
TheBlackPaladin
07-17-07, 06:30 PM The problem with balancing it towards one type of crossbow because of reload time is that each crossbow has a different reload time. This would be underpowered for the light or hand crossbow. And to make it more confusing, I'm planning on using a Great Crossbow that requires a full-round action to reload.
foxtail
07-18-07, 08:29 AM The problem with balancing it towards one type of crossbow because of reload time is that each crossbow has a different reload time.

Make the action for Ranged Precision scale, then; x action for a light crossbow, y action for a heavy crossbow, z for great crossbow (where x < y < z). Or, keep it as a standard action and scale down the bonus damage - reduce the die from d8 to d6, or slow the progression to one die every three levels, for example.
The_Shaman
07-18-07, 08:42 AM The problem with balancing it towards one type of crossbow because of reload time is that each crossbow has a different reload time. This would be underpowered for the light or hand crossbow. And to make it more confusing, I'm planning on using a Great Crossbow that requires a full-round action to reload.

Why not just escavate the good old "deepwood" sniper, then? Just put an extra ability instead of the keen spell-like one, since back in 3.0 improved critical and keen stacked.
StevenO
07-18-07, 01:51 PM If switching feats substituting Rapid Reload for Rapid Shot does make a lot of sense.

Personnally I think you should switch Rapid Shot for Crossbow Sniper (PHB2). Requiring that would also make Ranged Precision so much better as you double the range from 30' out to 60'.
TheBlackPaladin
07-18-07, 04:22 PM Why not just escavate the good old "deepwood" sniper, then? Just put an extra ability instead of the keen spell-like one, since back in 3.0 improved critical and keen stacked.

The thing I'm going for with this character is "one shot, one kill". Where the old deepwood sniper was amazing, it banks on getting a critical hit to do major damage. Granted, with the Ranged Improved Critical ability boosting the crit multiplier, you do some major damage on that critical hit, it does still rely on the chance of a crit. Instead of every once in a while getting a major hit, I would like consistant damage every hit. I'm trying to accomplish this with either Rogue or Ninja at first and then OotBI when I can take it. The problem with OotBI is that it can only make one shot per round, which is a sacrifice for a bow but not for a crossbow. With the 2d8 damage from the Great Crossbow, this prestige class would make that weapon sick.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheBlackPaladin 07-17-07, 03:08 PM	For those who don't know this prestige class, all of the abilities apply to all ranged weapons, although the requirements to take it are bow specific. To switch the class to crossbows should be as easy as changing the Craft (bowmaking) to Craft (weaponsmithing) and the Weapon Focus from a bow to a crossbow. The one I don't know how to fix is Rapid Shot. I'm thinking Rapid Reload, but I wanted to see what you guys would think about all of this. For me, it seems that this prestige class would work very well for a crossbow fighter, because the Ranged Precision ability takes a standard action, allowing for only one attack, which is not a problem for somebody already used to that. Please tell me what you think.
foxtail 07-17-07, 03:19 PM	Rapid Reload would be a good alternate prerequisite, since it would make the standard action required for Ranged Precision an acceptable trade-off. The only problem I see is if someone enters this class using the Heavy Crossbow, which, even after applying that feat, has to be reloaded as a move action, and consequently fired as a standard action in any case; there would be no downside to using Ranged Precision turn after turn. My DM and I put together a prestige class for my pistol-packing Gondar in an FR campaign, borrowing heavily from the OotBI adding some extra flair. The house rule in effect there is that Rapid Reload can be applied to firearms (making the reload time a move action rather than a standard action), and the tradeoff for the PrC is that my Ranged Precision-like ability requires a full-round action; a similar caveat could be applied to the heavy crossbow in your case.
TheBlackPaladin 07-17-07, 06:30 PM	The problem with balancing it towards one type of crossbow because of reload time is that each crossbow has a different reload time. This would be underpowered for the light or hand crossbow. And to make it more confusing, I'm planning on using a Great Crossbow that requires a full-round action to reload.
foxtail 07-18-07, 08:29 AM	The problem with balancing it towards one type of crossbow because of reload time is that each crossbow has a different reload time. Make the action for Ranged Precision scale, then; x action for a light crossbow, y action for a heavy crossbow, z for great crossbow (where x < y < z). Or, keep it as a standard action and scale down the bonus damage - reduce the die from d8 to d6, or slow the progression to one die every three levels, for example.
The_Shaman 07-18-07, 08:42 AM	The problem with balancing it towards one type of crossbow because of reload time is that each crossbow has a different reload time. This would be underpowered for the light or hand crossbow. And to make it more confusing, I'm planning on using a Great Crossbow that requires a full-round action to reload. Why not just escavate the good old "deepwood" sniper, then? Just put an extra ability instead of the keen spell-like one, since back in 3.0 improved critical and keen stacked.
StevenO 07-18-07, 01:51 PM	If switching feats substituting Rapid Reload for Rapid Shot does make a lot of sense. Personnally I think you should switch Rapid Shot for Crossbow Sniper (PHB2). Requiring that would also make Ranged Precision so much better as you double the range from 30' out to 60'.
TheBlackPaladin 07-18-07, 04:22 PM	Why not just escavate the good old "deepwood" sniper, then? Just put an extra ability instead of the keen spell-like one, since back in 3.0 improved critical and keen stacked. The thing I'm going for with this character is "one shot, one kill". Where the old deepwood sniper was amazing, it banks on getting a critical hit to do major damage. Granted, with the Ranged Improved Critical ability boosting the crit multiplier, you do some major damage on that critical hit, it does still rely on the chance of a crit. Instead of every once in a while getting a major hit, I would like consistant damage every hit. I'm trying to accomplish this with either Rogue or Ninja at first and then OotBI when I can take it. The problem with OotBI is that it can only make one shot per round, which is a sacrifice for a bow but not for a crossbow. With the 2d8 damage from the Great Crossbow, this prestige class would make that weapon sick.