Paladin of Bahamut PrC ideas [Archive] - Wizards Community

Paladin of Bahamut PrC ideas [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CrashtheStyx
03-22-07, 03:23 PM I'm playing a character who witnessed his fathers death by a red dragon, but then was saved by a silver dragon who took the opportunity to take out the red when he was weak from fighting my characters father. Either way, my character was a kid at the time, and was taken under the wing of the silver who trained him into being a paladin, teaching him the ways of bahamut and whatnot. There's more too it, but that's the jist of it. Oh, and my character is from a barbarian tribe, his father was teaching him how to hunt, etc....

Either way, I was looking at different melee focused paladin PrC's, and nearly all require weapon focus in their deities weapon...which for me as a worshipper of Bahamut would be the heavy pick...which I'm sorry to say, is lame. I'm all up for the RP side, but I refuse to use a heavy pick. Longsword or bastard sword either fit my tastes.

Spellcasting of any kind is not required, and I've already looked at the Vassal of Bahamut PrC, and love it, but I'm playing with a new DM and not sure how frequently dragons will pop up and don't want to limit myself to an anti-dragon PrC. Pious Templar peaked my interest, but that would require WF in a heavy pick, and my DM already semi-shot down my request to use bastard or longsword for that requirement instead. I would too if I were a DM...

Any ideas?
The_Shaman
03-22-07, 03:28 PM What's wrong with the Platinum Knight from Draconomicon? It would look even better with a level or two of a class that has better spellcasting (i.e. cleric), but that would be my first choice. The vassal... yeah, you go kill a Juvenile red without any help ;) . I'm a bit less sure if the pick is so bad, though - that x4 critical would put it on the same level as the scimitar imo. Too bad paladins don't have a spell to make their next strike - if successful - a critical threat :D . But hey, if you don't like it, it's your call.

Something else... I guess a "generic" paladin PrC like the hospitaller (again I'd advise cleric/FSoul levels) might also work, if you want to multiclass at all, and the classes from Races of the Dragon (i.e. dragon devotee) / Dragon magic might be worth your time if you have the books.
MatthiasKaiser
03-22-07, 03:30 PM If you can meet the prereqs, though, Vassal of Bahamut is kinda nice. Don't know if it's really optimal, but it's certainly flavorful, and having your own special magic armor is nifty.
The_Shaman
03-22-07, 03:41 PM Oh, it is nice to say the least... but I'm a bit cautious with exalted material. Playing a paladin is already a serious challenge, as I prefer paladins to take their dedication to good seriously. An exalted one might be quite the mouthful, especially with the problems exalteds might have with too much killing.
MatthiasKaiser
03-22-07, 03:54 PM Oh, I agree. Of course, that sort of depends on your DM. If you know that your DM will handwave away the moral implications of nearly any action, even when taken by the group paladin or cleric, you're golden. Except when you cry at night.

(I've clashed with my DM several times over some of my party members' less-than-sparkling acts. The paladin and the cleric of one campaign are just flat-out bullies. When I object, in character or out, the DM clearly favors their side. And yes, this paladin intends to become a Vassal of Bahamut.)
CrashtheStyx
03-22-07, 04:38 PM Oh trust me, RPing this character isn't going to be my issue. When building this character I got excited about how to work his actions/reactions to situation balancing the fact that he is a paladin with a barbarian tribe background (and therefore his roots tend to be more aggressive), but his father and his silver dragon tutor both emphasized the moral *duty* of being a righteous warrior.

I'm a big fan of fantasy novels as well as shakespeare (particularly Hamlet) and other dramatic plays, so internal conflict is something I enjoy feeding into my characters probably too much.

Shaman, I thought about the combat possibilities of the criticals from a HPick, but it was the RP value that kills it for me. His father was a barbarian/ranger, who duel wielded blades, and where his father was his idol (and because he was killed protecting his son, he became eternally idolized in the eyes of my character), and I planned on naming my main weapon (whether that be long or bastard sword) Tor after his father, Tormad. Because of that, my character took up the sowrd. But, because it was the fire breath that ultimately brought Tormad to his demise, my character took up a shield, to protect himself and others from the *somewhat symbolized* fire breath of the enemy.

I just re-read that...and yeah I need to stop reading hamlet.

EDIT: Oh, and the reasons I don't like the platinum knight are fourfold:
1. It's a very anti-dragon class in a campaign where I don't think how often dragons will come up.
2. The other class abilities besides the anti-dragon stuff just duplicate my already received paladin abilities, such as Bahamut's Grace.
3. A d8 hit die. Why would a knight who's specialized in combating dragons get a d8 hit die?
4. I agree this class would be best with some cleric splashed in...but my barbarian roots don't meld well with a large amount of spellcasting.
The_Shaman
03-22-07, 09:07 PM Well, I didn't say it would be the most optimal one, but I kinda think of it as the Bahamut paladin substitution levels :) You can definitely go for the normal one, hospitaller, or something else.

"1. It's a very anti-dragon class in a campaign where I don't think how often dragons will come up.
2. The other class abilities besides the anti-dragon stuff just duplicate my already received paladin abilities, such as Bahamut's Grace.
3. A d8 hit die. Why would a knight who's specialized in combating dragons get a d8 hit die?
4. I agree this class would be best with some cleric splashed in...but my barbarian roots don't meld well with a large amount of spellcasting."

1. Hmm, perhaps you could just continue your smite progression. However, for a paladin of Bahamut not to encounted any evil dragons is... unlikely, to say the least, unless your DM is completely clueless.
2. Aw, come on. You get a bonus to your natural armor (stacks with almost anything), to your charisma, and to your saves (Bahamut's Grace and Divine Grace stack). You're not exactly harmless, although I do realize that some more firepower could help.
3: It's a bit weird, granted, but the PrC does give caster levels. I don't see why you can't change it to d10, though (or just go for dragonslayer).
4. You're a paladin already, so I don't know about barbarian roots or aversion to spellcasting ;) . Besides, if you're a cleric or a Favored Soul, you're simply channeling Bahamut's power - not to mention that without 5+ levels of cleric, you won't be getting many more spells than a regular paladin. Of course, you can just enter the class as a straight pally and it won't cost you anything. A full spellcaster can just get a bit more from it.

It's just an idea. I guess you could try to adapt something else, but what are you aiming for?
_Bolshack_Dragon_
03-22-07, 11:14 PM The Vassal i think would work pretty well. Also the Dragonborn race from Races of the Dragon would work wonders with this PrC. Just take the first two Racial Substitution levels of Dragonborn Paladin and I think you would be set.
Treymordin
03-23-07, 12:06 AM There is the Brightwarden of Paladine in Holy Orders of the Stars ny Margarte Weis Productions.
CrashtheStyx
03-23-07, 12:16 AM I actually just looked over that Dragonborn racial, loved it, and added it. It's perfect with the flavor of the character, and allows me to then be directly connected to Bahamut, while worshipping another deity for the purpose of my paladin abilities/choice weapon.

AND...my DM just made a prestige out of the blue for graduates of the paladin academy in his campaign. It is more or less exactly what I've been looking for, with tight restrictions that my character already qualifies for...mainly being enrolled into the academy.

Depending on where the campaign goes though, who knows where my character will end up. Thanks for all the help guys!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CrashtheStyx 03-22-07, 03:23 PM	I'm playing a character who witnessed his fathers death by a red dragon, but then was saved by a silver dragon who took the opportunity to take out the red when he was weak from fighting my characters father. Either way, my character was a kid at the time, and was taken under the wing of the silver who trained him into being a paladin, teaching him the ways of bahamut and whatnot. There's more too it, but that's the jist of it. Oh, and my character is from a barbarian tribe, his father was teaching him how to hunt, etc.... Either way, I was looking at different melee focused paladin PrC's, and nearly all require weapon focus in their deities weapon...which for me as a worshipper of Bahamut would be the heavy pick...which I'm sorry to say, is lame. I'm all up for the RP side, but I refuse to use a heavy pick. Longsword or bastard sword either fit my tastes. Spellcasting of any kind is not required, and I've already looked at the Vassal of Bahamut PrC, and love it, but I'm playing with a new DM and not sure how frequently dragons will pop up and don't want to limit myself to an anti-dragon PrC. Pious Templar peaked my interest, but that would require WF in a heavy pick, and my DM already semi-shot down my request to use bastard or longsword for that requirement instead. I would too if I were a DM... Any ideas?
The_Shaman 03-22-07, 03:28 PM	What's wrong with the Platinum Knight from Draconomicon? It would look even better with a level or two of a class that has better spellcasting (i.e. cleric), but that would be my first choice. The vassal... yeah, you go kill a Juvenile red without any help ;) . I'm a bit less sure if the pick is so bad, though - that x4 critical would put it on the same level as the scimitar imo. Too bad paladins don't have a spell to make their next strike - if successful - a critical threat :D . But hey, if you don't like it, it's your call. Something else... I guess a "generic" paladin PrC like the hospitaller (again I'd advise cleric/FSoul levels) might also work, if you want to multiclass at all, and the classes from Races of the Dragon (i.e. dragon devotee) / Dragon magic might be worth your time if you have the books.
MatthiasKaiser 03-22-07, 03:30 PM	If you can meet the prereqs, though, Vassal of Bahamut is kinda nice. Don't know if it's really optimal, but it's certainly flavorful, and having your own special magic armor is nifty.
The_Shaman 03-22-07, 03:41 PM	Oh, it is nice to say the least... but I'm a bit cautious with exalted material. Playing a paladin is already a serious challenge, as I prefer paladins to take their dedication to good seriously. An exalted one might be quite the mouthful, especially with the problems exalteds might have with too much killing.
MatthiasKaiser 03-22-07, 03:54 PM	Oh, I agree. Of course, that sort of depends on your DM. If you know that your DM will handwave away the moral implications of nearly any action, even when taken by the group paladin or cleric, you're golden. Except when you cry at night. (I've clashed with my DM several times over some of my party members' less-than-sparkling acts. The paladin and the cleric of one campaign are just flat-out bullies. When I object, in character or out, the DM clearly favors their side. And yes, this paladin intends to become a Vassal of Bahamut.)
CrashtheStyx 03-22-07, 04:38 PM	Oh trust me, RPing this character isn't going to be my issue. When building this character I got excited about how to work his actions/reactions to situation balancing the fact that he is a paladin with a barbarian tribe background (and therefore his roots tend to be more aggressive), but his father and his silver dragon tutor both emphasized the moral duty of being a righteous warrior. I'm a big fan of fantasy novels as well as shakespeare (particularly Hamlet) and other dramatic plays, so internal conflict is something I enjoy feeding into my characters probably too much. Shaman, I thought about the combat possibilities of the criticals from a HPick, but it was the RP value that kills it for me. His father was a barbarian/ranger, who duel wielded blades, and where his father was his idol (and because he was killed protecting his son, he became eternally idolized in the eyes of my character), and I planned on naming my main weapon (whether that be long or bastard sword) Tor after his father, Tormad. Because of that, my character took up the sowrd. But, because it was the fire breath that ultimately brought Tormad to his demise, my character took up a shield, to protect himself and others from the somewhat symbolized fire breath of the enemy. I just re-read that...and yeah I need to stop reading hamlet. EDIT: Oh, and the reasons I don't like the platinum knight are fourfold: 1. It's a very anti-dragon class in a campaign where I don't think how often dragons will come up. 2. The other class abilities besides the anti-dragon stuff just duplicate my already received paladin abilities, such as Bahamut's Grace. 3. A d8 hit die. Why would a knight who's specialized in combating dragons get a d8 hit die? 4. I agree this class would be best with some cleric splashed in...but my barbarian roots don't meld well with a large amount of spellcasting.
The_Shaman 03-22-07, 09:07 PM	Well, I didn't say it would be the most optimal one, but I kinda think of it as the Bahamut paladin substitution levels :) You can definitely go for the normal one, hospitaller, or something else. "1. It's a very anti-dragon class in a campaign where I don't think how often dragons will come up. 2. The other class abilities besides the anti-dragon stuff just duplicate my already received paladin abilities, such as Bahamut's Grace. 3. A d8 hit die. Why would a knight who's specialized in combating dragons get a d8 hit die? 4. I agree this class would be best with some cleric splashed in...but my barbarian roots don't meld well with a large amount of spellcasting." 1. Hmm, perhaps you could just continue your smite progression. However, for a paladin of Bahamut not to encounted any evil dragons is... unlikely, to say the least, unless your DM is completely clueless. 2. Aw, come on. You get a bonus to your natural armor (stacks with almost anything), to your charisma, and to your saves (Bahamut's Grace and Divine Grace stack). You're not exactly harmless, although I do realize that some more firepower could help. 3: It's a bit weird, granted, but the PrC does give caster levels. I don't see why you can't change it to d10, though (or just go for dragonslayer). 4. You're a paladin already, so I don't know about barbarian roots or aversion to spellcasting ;) . Besides, if you're a cleric or a Favored Soul, you're simply channeling Bahamut's power - not to mention that without 5+ levels of cleric, you won't be getting many more spells than a regular paladin. Of course, you can just enter the class as a straight pally and it won't cost you anything. A full spellcaster can just get a bit more from it. It's just an idea. I guess you could try to adapt something else, but what are you aiming for?
_Bolshack_Dragon_ 03-22-07, 11:14 PM	The Vassal i think would work pretty well. Also the Dragonborn race from Races of the Dragon would work wonders with this PrC. Just take the first two Racial Substitution levels of Dragonborn Paladin and I think you would be set.
Treymordin 03-23-07, 12:06 AM	There is the Brightwarden of Paladine in Holy Orders of the Stars ny Margarte Weis Productions.
CrashtheStyx 03-23-07, 12:16 AM	I actually just looked over that Dragonborn racial, loved it, and added it. It's perfect with the flavor of the character, and allows me to then be directly connected to Bahamut, while worshipping another deity for the purpose of my paladin abilities/choice weapon. AND...my DM just made a prestige out of the blue for graduates of the paladin academy in his campaign. It is more or less exactly what I've been looking for, with tight restrictions that my character already qualifies for...mainly being enrolled into the academy. Depending on where the campaign goes though, who knows where my character will end up. Thanks for all the help guys!