Paladin of Tyranny/Blackguard [Archive] - Wizards Community

Paladin of Tyranny/Blackguard [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Witchslasher
09-24-07, 04:21 PM I have a player looking to get Paladin of Tyranny (Unearthed Arcana) then Prestige to Blackguard. My question is whether the Aura of Despair class abilities from each would stack. The Paladin of Tyranny's is worded exactly the same as the Blackguard and it's notable that the penalties are untyped:

Aura of Despair (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, the blackguard radiates a malign aura that causes enemies within 10 feet of him to take a –2 penalty on all saving throws.

But I know untyped bonuses from the same source don't stack, I'm just not 100 percent sure if you can say their from the same source considering it comes from two different classes. I've searched as best I could, so thought I'd see if anyone had some suggestions on how this should be handled.
ShadowF
09-24-07, 05:21 PM I think when the UA came out the forgot to clarify this issue, but generally it is a named source from the Aura. I don't have the UA on me right now, but I would say that they wouldn't stack and you chose the better of the 2 Auras. If you had the other Evil paladin I think you would lose that aura and Gain the Aura of dispear. Treat your Evil Paladin as a fallen Paladin if the Evil counterparts have A lay on Hands deal.
StevenO
09-24-07, 05:42 PM If the abilities have the same name and are also worded the same then I'd definitely say they do not stack. If there are level dependant parts to them however you should combine both classes to determine the appropriate level.

Perhaps this is off but I've always thought that if you use the alternate Paladin classes then you shouldn't be using Blackguard as well.
TiwazTyrsfist
09-24-07, 07:00 PM I would say that they are the same power.

They have the same name. They have the same effect. It's like if you were a barbarian 2/rogue 4.

I'd say that he only gets the effect once.
However, in the event that something causes him to violate one class but not the other (not sure how, but IF) such that he would loose the powers from the class, he retains Aura of Despair from the class that he didn't violate.
Jaxgaret
09-25-07, 01:22 AM But I know untyped bonuses from the same source don't stack, I'm just not 100 percent sure if you can say their from the same source considering it comes from two different classes.

In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack (combine for a cumulative effect) if they come from different sources and have different types (or no type at all), but do not stack if they have the same type or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession).

Note that the spells are the sources in the SRD example, not the caster.

It doesn't matter what class the Aura of Despair is coming from - the source is the Aura of Despair, not the class.

Therefore, they do not stack, as they are the same source.

For example, if a Bard4/Sorcerer4 cast 2 identical spells on an enemy - but one as a Bard, and one as a Sorcerer - they would not stack (unless they are the kind of spell that would stack regardless of source).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Witchslasher 09-24-07, 04:21 PM	I have a player looking to get Paladin of Tyranny (Unearthed Arcana) then Prestige to Blackguard. My question is whether the Aura of Despair class abilities from each would stack. The Paladin of Tyranny's is worded exactly the same as the Blackguard and it's notable that the penalties are untyped: Aura of Despair (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, the blackguard radiates a malign aura that causes enemies within 10 feet of him to take a –2 penalty on all saving throws. But I know untyped bonuses from the same source don't stack, I'm just not 100 percent sure if you can say their from the same source considering it comes from two different classes. I've searched as best I could, so thought I'd see if anyone had some suggestions on how this should be handled.
ShadowF 09-24-07, 05:21 PM	I think when the UA came out the forgot to clarify this issue, but generally it is a named source from the Aura. I don't have the UA on me right now, but I would say that they wouldn't stack and you chose the better of the 2 Auras. If you had the other Evil paladin I think you would lose that aura and Gain the Aura of dispear. Treat your Evil Paladin as a fallen Paladin if the Evil counterparts have A lay on Hands deal.
StevenO 09-24-07, 05:42 PM	If the abilities have the same name and are also worded the same then I'd definitely say they do not stack. If there are level dependant parts to them however you should combine both classes to determine the appropriate level. Perhaps this is off but I've always thought that if you use the alternate Paladin classes then you shouldn't be using Blackguard as well.
TiwazTyrsfist 09-24-07, 07:00 PM	I would say that they are the same power. They have the same name. They have the same effect. It's like if you were a barbarian 2/rogue 4. I'd say that he only gets the effect once. However, in the event that something causes him to violate one class but not the other (not sure how, but IF) such that he would loose the powers from the class, he retains Aura of Despair from the class that he didn't violate.
Jaxgaret 09-25-07, 01:22 AM	But I know untyped bonuses from the same source don't stack, I'm just not 100 percent sure if you can say their from the same source considering it comes from two different classes. In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack (combine for a cumulative effect) if they come from different sources and have different types (or no type at all), but do not stack if they have the same type or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession). Note that the spells are the sources in the SRD example, not the caster. It doesn't matter what class the Aura of Despair is coming from - the source is the Aura of Despair, not the class. Therefore, they do not stack, as they are the same source. For example, if a Bard4/Sorcerer4 cast 2 identical spells on an enemy - but one as a Bard, and one as a Sorcerer - they would not stack (unless they are the kind of spell that would stack regardless of source).