Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Andyr 05-02-07, 01:44 PM	I was looking at the Pale Master today (Libris Mortis 48) and noticed that, unlike all the other levels, the first level has neither class features nor spellcasting progression, which surprised me. Is that really how it is supposed to be?
Ariath Ska'Vhor 05-03-07, 12:42 AM	Apparently, looks like nothing but 1d4 hp and a bonus to will saves.
Flay Crimsonwind 05-03-07, 01:19 AM	That, my friends, is the definition of a dead level. Worse than even the third fighter level.....
Silverthumb128 05-03-07, 02:29 AM	That, my friends, is the definition of a dead level. Worse than even the third fighter level..... No, its an undead level.
TheAnthroDM 05-03-07, 02:53 AM	No, its an undead level. No, no, no, Undead levels have 1d12 not 1d4. :P
JellyPooga 05-03-07, 07:16 AM	[shameless plug]Check out my revision of the Pale Master (see my sig)[/shameless plug]
Dragonteuthis 05-03-07, 12:29 PM	That, my friends, is the definition of a dead level. Worse than even the third fighter level..... At third level, luckily, you get +1 to the two non-favored saves, and (unless you're multi-classing), a feat. I think 5th level for Fighters qualifies for the truly "dead" level.
StevenO 05-03-07, 01:35 PM	The dead level in Pale Master is part of the cost you need to pay to reap the classes benefits. It certainly goes a long way to keeping the casual multiclasser out.
Andyr 05-07-07, 12:36 PM	Yeah, but--at first level? Your years of hard study pay off and you as you commence your initiation into the secret art of the Pale Master you learn... nothing? I guess I just wouldn't have designed the class that way--it's good that the thread comfirms I don't just have a pre-Errata'd copy of the book or something.
Fabius Maximus 05-07-07, 05:08 PM	You could just move the 2nd level abilites to first level.
Vharuck 05-07-07, 05:12 PM	The dead level in Pale Master is part of the cost you need to pay to reap the classes benefits. It certainly goes a long way to keeping the casual multiclasser out. Mechanically and logically this is a sound point; but my point is that mechanics and logic be damned, that's a big let-down for when I finally receive training in a prestige class. Me: "Yay! I'm now a Pale Master! What can I do?" Pale Master Tutor: "Less than you could have had you stuck with your previous path." And true, I'll get those cool abilities later, but for that whole level I'm going to be grumbling and generally ticked off.
StevenO 05-07-07, 07:10 PM	Although it still may not satisfy you, just think of that dead level as being part of the previous level. It is just taking twice as long to "really" level up while you finallize your preparation for the transformations that are to come.
RobbyPants 05-08-07, 11:47 AM	You could just move the 2nd level abilites to first level. Yeah, I'd do the same too. It's the same overall power level, and at least you get something.
Kresalak 05-08-07, 04:19 PM	The dead level in Pale Master is part of the cost you need to pay to reap the classes benefits. It certainly goes a long way to keeping the casual multiclasser out. No, it doesn't. The class itself is pretty much totally bad-even if it got spellcasting at that level it would only be an adequate choice. But the 1st level literally gives nothing, which means that for an entire level-roughly 13 encounters-you haven't gotten anything. And then, next level, you get the same abilities that a pure Wizard would have gotten an entire level sooner, and you never catch up. That's totally broken and can never work.
Lanky Ogre Baggy Pants 06-06-07, 11:54 PM	So besides the fact that the class isn't that great except for its 2nd level ability, what is the point of Undead armor affinity? I seem to remember 3.0 Pale Masters gaining an Undead Armor ability, did they just do away with that and leave the affinity, and not give them anything?
The_Shaman 06-07-07, 03:41 AM	I'd expect them to get the ability to craft such armor, before getting superior expertise with it. Perhaps that could go in lvl 1?
Kevin Andrew Murphy 06-07-07, 07:27 AM	Well, it certainly beats the 3.0 Pale Master that had almost nil in the way of later usefulness since it lost so much spell progression. However, as with many things, it's likely just a design flaw. You should at least get an undead fruit basket or something, or a gift certificate for the merchants at Knockturn Alley.
nephsytis 06-08-07, 03:29 AM	the dead level in a way makes up for the fact that you can take a necropolitan necromancer as your palemaster9 cohort with almost the same caster level as yourself, without even spending a feat, and the deathless master's touch to create zombies that are outside of your control limit. worse than the dead level are the feat prerequisites.