Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The Vorpal Tribble 04-05-07, 09:45 PM	I think another feat needs to be included as a prerequisite but none seem to quite fit. Open to suggestions. -=-=--=-=-=- Dark Waltzing http://my.photosleeve.com/TheVorpalTribble-albums/album03/ags.jpg "Is there anything greater than to taste the moonbeams beneath your feet?" - Brina Lorelai Everyone has heard of the dances of the fey. The beautiful, mesmerizing movements that can draw a mortal in where they shall be caught forever. Some though are released or are strong enough to escape. The memory of the dance however haunts them forever. While many eventually die, heartbroken but unwilling to give themselves over, others embrace the unearthly nature of the fey and delve into the unpredictable, allurring, inhuman wildness. This path alters them until their very humanity is swept away forever, becoming dark waltzings, creatures of the twilight of star and moon, sun and shadow. Many different peoples succumb to the allure of the Dark Waltzing. Though druids and rangers are most likely to encounter the path, bards are the most likely to meet the necessary prerequisites. Hit Die: d6 Requirements Feats: Dodge, Mobility Skills: Knowledge (nature) 8, Perform (dance) 6 Language: Sylvan Special: Must have been enticed or forced to dance with a fey creature. Class Skills The Dark Waltzing’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Survival (Wis), Tumble (Dex). Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Int modifier. Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Bonus Spells 1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Throes of Fae 1 2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Woodland Stride 1 3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Low-light Vision, Starry-Eyed 0 4th +3 +1 +4 +4 Cunning, Gambol 1 5th +3 +1 +4 +4 Visage of the Fair Folk 1 6th +4 +2 +5 +5 Kick Up Your Heels 1 7th +5 +2 +5 +5 Wilder Throes 0 8th +6 +2 +6 +6 Great Cunning 1 9th +6 +3 +6 +6 Woodwise 1 10th +7 +3 +7 +7 Wild Child 1 -=-=-=-=-=-=- Class Features All the following are Class Features of the Dark Waltzing prestige class. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Dark Waltzing gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor. Bonus Spells: Dark Waltzings gain bonus spells as they gain levels in this prestige class, as if from having a high ability score, as given above. A bonus spell can be added to any level of spells the disciple already has the ability to cast. This spell may be chosen from the Druid's spell list. Throes of Fae (Ex): You may give into the haunting wildness of the fey spirit. Your features gain a horrible, alien beauty and your movements become unearthly graceful and dance-like. While in these throes a dark waltzing gains a +4 bonus to Dexterity, a +4 bonus to Charisma, and a +2 morale bonus to Will saves. She adds her (newly improved) Charisma-modifier as a deflection bonus to her AC while in these throes. These throes last for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the waltzing’s (newly improved) Charisma modifier. A dark waltzing may prematurely end her throes. There is a cumulative 2% chance every round while in these throes that the dark waltzing loses all control, becoming Insane as the spell. This condition lasts until the end of the throes, which while insane cannot be ended prematurely. A dark waltzing may succumb to these throes only once per encounter. At 1st level she can use her throes ability once per day. At 3rd level and every three levels thereafter, she can use it one additional time per day (to a maximum of 4 times per day at 10th level). Going into these throes takes no time itself, but a dark waltzing can do it only during her action, not in response to someone else’s action. Woodland Stride (Ex): A dark waltzing may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at her normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion still affect her. At 10th level even magically manipulated areas do not cause you damage or impair you. Low-light Vision (Ex): A Dark Waltzing can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions. Starry-Eyed (Ex): Your mind begins to roam the strange places of the fey. You no longer sleep as a normal being, but instead dance the night away. You are still semi-conscious and vaguely aware of your surroundings, so do not suffer any penalties on surprise or initiative rolls, and you are not helpless if attacked. You do however take a -6 penalty to spot and listen checks. This ability only functions while in a natural setting. While within a city or artificial structure you cannot achieve the necessary state and must sleep as normal. Cunning (Ex): A dark waltzing retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If the dark waltzing has uncanny dodge, she automatically gains great cunning (see below) instead. Gambol (Su): A dark waltzing may use up one of their daily throes to Fascinate one or more creatures with their enthralling dances. Each creature to be fascinated must be within 90 feet, and able to pay attention to the waltzing. The distraction of a nearby combat or other dangers prevents the ability from working. For every two levels a waltzing attains beyond 1st, she can target one additional creature with a single use of this ability. To use the ability, a dark waltzing makes a Perform (dance) check. Her check result is the DC for each affected creature’s Will save against the effect. If a creature’s saving throw succeeds, the waltzing cannot attempt to fascinate that creature again for 24 hours. If its saving throw fails, the creature sits quietly and watches the dance rapturously, taking no other actions, for as long as the waltzing continues to dance and concentrate (up to a maximum of 1 round per prestige level). While fascinated, a target takes a –4 penalty on skill checks made as reactions, such as Listen and Spot checks. Any potential threat requires the waltzing to make another Perform check and allows the creature a new saving throw against a DC equal to the new Perform check result. The dark waltzing may choose one of those successfully fascinated to become Charmed with her as the Charm Monster spell for 1 hour per level if they fail a second Will save. All Fascinated creatures but the charmed target are freed as the waltzing uses all her focus on an individual. She may not have more than 1 creature charmed at the same time. At 9th level she may instead choose to completely bind her target to her as the Dominate Person spell instead of merely charming. She may not charm or dominate any other creature while the primary target is affected. Visage of the Fair Folk (Ex): You gain a +2 bonus to your Charisma and a +4 bonus on saving throws against the spell-like abilities of fey. Kick Up Your Heels (Ex): Your movements are as light as a feather. You use your Dexterity in the place of strength when making Jump and Climb checks. As well you add your dexterity modifier to Perform (dance) checks in addition to your charisma-modifier. Wilder Throes (Ex): At 6th level, a waltzing's bonuses to Dexterity and Charisma during her throes each increase to +6, and her morale bonus on Will saves increases to +3. The cumulative chance to go insane is unaffected. Great Cunning (Ex): A dark waltzing can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the waltzing by flanking her. Woodwise (Ex): A dark waltzing may use Commune With Nature and Find the Path three times per day. Wild Child (Ex): At 10th level, the Dark Waltzing's type changes to fey. Additionally, she gains damage reduction 10/cold iron.
Archmage_of_Blood 04-05-07, 09:59 PM	Another Vorpal Tribble masterpiece. :clap: :w00t: :clap:
The Vorpal Tribble 04-06-07, 12:11 AM	Heh, thanks. Btw, just added the Gambol ability. That I think was what I felt was missing. Hope it doesn't overpower it, but I was told by a couple others that it was actually a little underpowered, so maybe that should ramp it up.
Archmage_of_Blood 04-06-07, 12:41 AM	Heh, thanks. Btw, just added the Gambol ability. That I think was what I felt was missing. Hope it doesn't overpower it, but I was told by a couple others that it was actually a little underpowered, so maybe that should ramp it up. Made it a wee bit on the strong side, but nothing a nice DM wouldn't allow.
The Vorpal Tribble 04-06-07, 03:13 AM	Well, if possible I'd like to not have to rely on a nice DM. Does it look overpowered compared to official PrC's?
DarkRhystar 04-06-07, 04:07 AM	Truthful, honest, brutal PEACH'ing... the best kind. :) Class Skills The Dark Waltzing’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Survival (Wis) Intimidate and Escape Artist don't make sense as part of this skill set. Bonus Spells: Dark Waltzings gain bonus spells as they gain levels in this prestige class, as if from having a high ability score, as given above. A bonus spell can be added to any level of spells the disciple already has the ability to cast. This spell may be chosen from the Druid's spell list. This ability makes little sense. Are you granting spells known... and gearing it toward Druids? Which makes no sense as Druids know all their spells. Are you trying to add Druid spells to the list of a Sorcerer? Are you granting bonus spell slots... which also makes little sense when paired with the last line of the ability. Throes of Fae (Ex): <snip> There is a cumulative 5% chance every round while in these throes that the dark waltzing loses all control, becoming Insane as the spell. This condition lasts until the end of the throes, which while insane cannot be ended prematurely. Okay, first... learn from the stupidity that is the Frenzied Berserker. Penalties on abilities that penalize the party rather than just the character are awful mechanics. Second, have you read the Insanity spell? It functions as per the Confusion spell. Since there is no caster, the effects which rely on the caster result in the character doing nothing. Result: 60% - Do Nothing 10% - Act Normally 30% - Attack the nearest creature This is a ludicrous penalty. Cunning (Ex): A dark waltzing retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If the dark waltzing has uncanny dodge, she automatically gains great cunning (see below) instead. What part of this ability requires it to be called something other than Uncanny Dodge? There are already enough ability terms in D&D; why create more of them... which do the exact same thing as existing ones? Gambol (Su): <snip> To use the ability, a dark waltzing makes a Perform (dance) check. Her check result is the DC for each affected creature’s Will save against the effect. DC too high! A DC based on a skill check is another bad mechanic. Do you realize the height of skill checks? This ability is likely to be gained at level 9 assuming entry as of level 6. A Sorcerer with an 18 starting Charisma, 2 stat increases to Charisma, and a +2 cloak of Charisma will have a DC of 20 for level 4 spells. A DW with max ranks in Perform (12) and a base Charisma of 14 will have a DC of somewhere between 15 and 34. Do even a little optimizing and the minimum DC will be well into the 20s with the highest DC in the 40s. That's absurd. Kick Up Your Heels (Ex): Your movements are as light as a feather. You use your Dexterity in the place of strength when making Jump and Climb checks. As well you add your dexterity modifier to Perform (dance) checks in addition to your charisma-modifier. If the saving DC wasn't already broken... this puts on the finishing touch. Great Cunning (Ex): A dark waltzing can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the waltzing by flanking her. So it's like Improved Uncanny Dodge... only better because it doesn't include the clause mentioning "unless the attacker has at least four more levels of..." Was this intentional? If not, why not just switch to Improved Uncanny Dodge? Wild Child (Ex): At 10th level, the Dark Waltzing's type changes to fey. Additionally, she gains damage reduction 10/cold iron. You know, part of the Fey creature type is that the creature requires sleep... yet Starry-Eyed conflicts with that. Not a major problem but it seems like a flavor mismatch. What place do you see this class doing in a party? It isn't going to be a spellcasting class; the bonus spells feel tacked on if anything. It isn't going to be a skill-monkey unless you start adding class-skills that don't mesh with the flavor of this class. It isn't necessarily going to be a heavy warrior that can take damage with its d6 HD. It isn't going to be a finesse fighter unless it gets damage from somewhere else and generally lacks offense; the only real offense it has is the fascination/charm/domination ability with its ridiculous DC which isn't entirely helpful as only the domination ability is useful in a combat situation (assuming you can't fascinate a whole group). This class looks, feels, and acts like a 5th wheel. Finally, you misspelled: Alluring and necessary in your description. Unearthly in Throes of Fae. Necessary in Starry-Eyed. Rapturously in Gambol. Waltzing as Waltzer in Gambol.
The Vorpal Tribble 04-06-07, 10:25 AM	Truthful, honest, brutal PEACH'ing... the best kind. :) [quote]Intimidate and Escape Artist don't make sense as part of this skill set. Actually, fey creatures were supposed to be incredibly intimidating in the old stories, and could seem to escape or squeeze out of near anything not bound in cold iron. Hence those two skills. This ability makes little sense. Are you granting spells known... and gearing it toward Druids? Which makes no sense as Druids know all their spells. Are you trying to add Druid spells to the list of a Sorcerer? I quoted that word for word from the Dragon Disciple except for the part where its a druid's spell. Usually its just whatever class you already have. All I did was change a word or two. Basically you can gain an 'extra spell' as if you had a really high mental score. But this spell is derived from the druid's spell list. You can cast that spell as if it were accessible to you, however you choose your spells. Okay, first... learn from the stupidity that is the Frenzied Berserker. Penalties on abilities that penalize the party rather than just the character are awful mechanics. I was specifically going for a penalty. Do you know where the word 'Fae' originally came from? It was the wild, euphorious way many folks acted near to when they would die. It was blamed on 'the fair folk'. The entire theme is based on that. Second, have you read the Insanity spell? It functions as per the Confusion spell. Since there is no caster, the effects which rely on the caster result in the character doing nothing. Result: 60% - Do Nothing 10% - Act Normally 30% - Attack the nearest creature Yes, I've read it, and there is no need for a caster. "Roll on the following table at the beginning of each subject’s turn each round to see what the subject does in that round." That is all it says. So you roll the d% and see how you act each round. There is no difficulty here. This is a ludicrous penalty. And I suppose you think the crushing wisdom and Charisma-based penalties for the Alienist, a fellow that is going insane as he learns more about what is 'really out there' is also ludicrous? With power comes risk, and it fits the theme of this. As I said, the whole point of that ability was for there to be a chance of you going nutty. What part of this ability requires it to be called something other than Uncanny Dodge? There are already enough ability terms in D&D; why create more of them... which do the exact same thing as existing ones? It doesn't do exactly the same. Uncanny dodge lets a sufficiently high-leveled rogue still flank you. In this one it doesn't matter their level, they cannot do it. It was sufficiently different to give it a new name. Also, if you've looked much at other PrC's you'll see that they often rename something that already has an official name to more match the class. DC too high! A DC based on a skill check is another bad mechanic. Do you realize the height of skill checks? This ability is likely to be gained at level 9 assuming entry as of level 6. A Sorcerer with an 18 starting Charisma, 2 stat increases to Charisma, and a +2 cloak of Charisma will have a DC of 20 for level 4 spells. A DW with max ranks in Perform (12) and a base Charisma of 14 will have a DC of somewhere between 15 and 34. Do even a little optimizing and the minimum DC will be well into the 20s with the highest DC in the 40s. That's absurd. That is straight from Bardic Music. I've yet to hear anyone call that class overpowered. You know, part of the Fey creature type is that the creature requires sleep... yet Starry-Eyed conflicts with that. Not a major problem but it seems like a flavor mismatch. They still 'sleep', they are just dancing about while doing so. Recall the quote from Lord of the Rings about how Legolas would just wander about singing in the starlight, his mind wandering the strange land of the elves? Yes, they sleep. This means they can still be affected by dreaming and sleeping spells. Creatures that do not sleep are not affected by the above. The only difference here is that the being is somewhat aware of her surroundings still, as if only half-asleep. They still require the equivalent of sleep. What place do you see this class doing in a party? This is just about the perfect scout. I thank you for this detailed PEACHing, but except for the mispellings, I completely disagree with every assessment of this class, especially as many bits you had a problem with is from an already published ability.
Ariath Ska'Vhor 04-07-07, 11:53 PM	I love it, reminds me alot of the faun from pan's labyrinth.
EonOmega 04-08-07, 04:48 AM	Making a roll every round to not go insane in order to keep those bonuses is a bit ludicrous, I will say that. You might be better off giving them a chance to extract themselves from the insanity by putting in a will save in there as well. Just a suggestion.
The Vorpal Tribble 04-09-07, 10:27 AM	Making a roll every round to not go insane in order to keep those bonuses is a bit ludicrous, I will say that. You might be better off giving them a chance to extract themselves from the insanity by putting in a will save in there as well. Just a suggestion. Well, insanity doesn't neccessarily make them less effective, and if they are already fighting someone its not likely they'll go after a friend instead of the guy currently slashing at them. Would the save be against themselves? That'd be kind of rough for as they improve in level they'd just make it harder on themselves.
The Vorpal Tribble 04-12-07, 02:04 PM	I love it, reminds me alot of the faun from pan's labyrinth. You're like the third person to tell me that... So I just finished watching Pan's Labyrinth and I still don't have a clue what the similarities are?