Pious Templar smite question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Pious Templar smite question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Elricity
03-19-08, 02:50 PM I'm trying to figure out the reading on how the PT smites combine with paladin smites. I'm playing a 2 Pld/4 Ftr/2 PT at the moment.

"Smite(su): If a Pious Templar has a smite evil ability already (for being a paladin), she can use the ability one extra time per day (two times at 7th level). The attack bonus doesn't increase, but the damage bonus is based on the character's combined level (pious templar plus paladin).

I have 3 people reading it 3 different ways in my game and was hoping someone could clarify. How many smite evils do I have and at what damage; and how many PT smites do I have and at what damage?
The_Shaman
03-19-08, 08:37 PM I think it means PT gives you smite evil attempts at the same attack as paladin ones and at damage based on paladin+PT levels. Remember, it says that if you have smite evil you can use "the ability" (smite evil being the only ability the phrase may refer to) additional times/day.
kalstrand
03-20-08, 02:43 PM It lets you use your Paladin smite ability more often and modifies the damage to equal your Paladin + PT levels.
Lotus Crane
03-20-08, 05:26 PM But is that in addition to the PT's own smites, or is it instead of? That's the real question.
kalstrand
03-20-08, 08:40 PM When the PT gives a smite it adds to the number of Paladin smites. It even says so right in the description of smite in the class write up.
Lotus Crane
03-20-08, 11:29 PM When the PT gives a smite it adds to the number of Paladin smites. It even says so right in the description of smite in the class write up.
But is that in addition to, or instead of? The first paragraph of the PT's smite ability describes a PT-unique smite ability that gives a +4 attack bonus (instead of being Cha-based), and seemingly with no alignment restriction for the target.
The second paragraph suggests that for characters who already have a different form of smite, PT levels will stack with those class levels. The problem however, is the fact that the second paragraph does not begin with "in addition" or "alternatively," meaning we have no definite idea on whether a paladin X/PT 10 has 3 PT smites and +2 paladin smites, or if he only has +2 paladin smites instead of 3 PT smites.
Language without qualifiers is, to pun it mildly, simply unqualified.
The_Shaman
03-20-08, 11:50 PM I believe that you either take the PT smite (+1 at 2, 6, 10) or the advancement of your othersmite (2,7) , whichever is better. It talks about using the ability, extra times/day. Read the second paragraph of the column carefully.

Therfore, a Pally 6/PT10 would imo smite 4 times: 2 from paladin levels and 2 from PT ones, with attack bonus = charisma bonus and damage bonus of +16 (pally + PT levels). Hope that helps!
kalstrand
03-21-08, 05:11 PM If a pious templar has a a smite evil or smite ability already, she can use the ability one extra time per day.

That is leaving out the info in parenthesis which is simply examples of how they could get a smite ability or the number of times per day based on level.

To me this pretty clearly says if you have a smite ability PT lets you use it more often.
Lotus Crane
03-21-08, 10:29 PM To me this pretty clearly says if you have a smite ability PT lets you use it more often.
Yes, but is that is in addition to or instead of the PT's default smite ability? You still haven't answered that clearly.
The_Shaman
03-22-08, 04:21 AM Well, the first paragraph talks about the PT's "default"smite. The second about how PT works when you have another smite X. It would certainly seem that when you have another smite, paragraph 2 should apply - and it specifically mentions getting X extra uses of the ability. That much should be clear.

OTOH, if you have even 1 use of Smite X, with the progression in the second paragraph you have greater or equal number of smites than what the first paragraph offers, at a better damage progression. Therefore, I would again suppose paragraph 2 applies.

If you want to get PT smites AND the PT bonus to another progression, then no. Munchie...
kalstrand
03-22-08, 02:40 PM Whats not to understand. If a PT already has a smite ability he can use it more times per day.

The sentence is about a smite ability already possesed when the PT gets that ability. He can now use it (the smite ability already possessed) more times per day.
Lotus Crane
03-22-08, 08:33 PM Whats not to understand. If a PT already has a smite ability he can use it more times per day.
Yes, but is that instead of or in addition to the PT's native smite ability? You still haven't given a clear and specific answer to that point.

Yes, we all know that a paladin 10/PT 10 will be able to smite evil (as per the paladin ability) 5 times per day. But is he also able to simply smite (as per the PT's native ability to smite, which is different from smite evil) 3 times per day, or does he not ever gain that ability, because he is advancing smite evil instead of gaining his own type of smite?

Did you not understand that that was the big question?
Elricity
03-23-08, 02:04 AM Exactly. What I'm trying to figure out is this. As a lvl 2 paladin lvl 2 PT, is this how it works?

2 Smite Evil, 1 from Pal1, the other from bonus at PT2, + cha to hit, PalLvl+PTLvl to damage

1 Smite, from PT2, +4 hit, +PT Lvl to damage
The_Shaman
03-23-08, 03:54 AM No, I think you get either PT smite progression or a bonus to your previous smite, not both. Thus, you'd imo get 2 smites at + cha to attack, + paladin+PT levels to damage.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Elricity 03-19-08, 02:50 PM	I'm trying to figure out the reading on how the PT smites combine with paladin smites. I'm playing a 2 Pld/4 Ftr/2 PT at the moment. "Smite(su): If a Pious Templar has a smite evil ability already (for being a paladin), she can use the ability one extra time per day (two times at 7th level). The attack bonus doesn't increase, but the damage bonus is based on the character's combined level (pious templar plus paladin). I have 3 people reading it 3 different ways in my game and was hoping someone could clarify. How many smite evils do I have and at what damage; and how many PT smites do I have and at what damage?
The_Shaman 03-19-08, 08:37 PM	I think it means PT gives you smite evil attempts at the same attack as paladin ones and at damage based on paladin+PT levels. Remember, it says that if you have smite evil you can use "the ability" (smite evil being the only ability the phrase may refer to) additional times/day.
kalstrand 03-20-08, 02:43 PM	It lets you use your Paladin smite ability more often and modifies the damage to equal your Paladin + PT levels.
Lotus Crane 03-20-08, 05:26 PM	But is that in addition to the PT's own smites, or is it instead of? That's the real question.
kalstrand 03-20-08, 08:40 PM	When the PT gives a smite it adds to the number of Paladin smites. It even says so right in the description of smite in the class write up.
Lotus Crane 03-20-08, 11:29 PM	When the PT gives a smite it adds to the number of Paladin smites. It even says so right in the description of smite in the class write up. But is that in addition to, or instead of? The first paragraph of the PT's smite ability describes a PT-unique smite ability that gives a +4 attack bonus (instead of being Cha-based), and seemingly with no alignment restriction for the target. The second paragraph suggests that for characters who already have a different form of smite, PT levels will stack with those class levels. The problem however, is the fact that the second paragraph does not begin with "in addition" or "alternatively," meaning we have no definite idea on whether a paladin X/PT 10 has 3 PT smites and +2 paladin smites, or if he only has +2 paladin smites instead of 3 PT smites. Language without qualifiers is, to pun it mildly, simply unqualified.
The_Shaman 03-20-08, 11:50 PM	I believe that you either take the PT smite (+1 at 2, 6, 10) or the advancement of your othersmite (2,7) , whichever is better. It talks about using the ability, extra times/day. Read the second paragraph of the column carefully. Therfore, a Pally 6/PT10 would imo smite 4 times: 2 from paladin levels and 2 from PT ones, with attack bonus = charisma bonus and damage bonus of +16 (pally + PT levels). Hope that helps!
kalstrand 03-21-08, 05:11 PM	If a pious templar has a a smite evil or smite ability already, she can use the ability one extra time per day. That is leaving out the info in parenthesis which is simply examples of how they could get a smite ability or the number of times per day based on level. To me this pretty clearly says if you have a smite ability PT lets you use it more often.
Lotus Crane 03-21-08, 10:29 PM	To me this pretty clearly says if you have a smite ability PT lets you use it more often. Yes, but is that is in addition to or instead of the PT's default smite ability? You still haven't answered that clearly.
The_Shaman 03-22-08, 04:21 AM	Well, the first paragraph talks about the PT's "default"smite. The second about how PT works when you have another smite X. It would certainly seem that when you have another smite, paragraph 2 should apply - and it specifically mentions getting X extra uses of the ability. That much should be clear. OTOH, if you have even 1 use of Smite X, with the progression in the second paragraph you have greater or equal number of smites than what the first paragraph offers, at a better damage progression. Therefore, I would again suppose paragraph 2 applies. If you want to get PT smites AND the PT bonus to another progression, then no. Munchie...
kalstrand 03-22-08, 02:40 PM	Whats not to understand. If a PT already has a smite ability he can use it more times per day. The sentence is about a smite ability already possesed when the PT gets that ability. He can now use it (the smite ability already possessed) more times per day.
Lotus Crane 03-22-08, 08:33 PM	Whats not to understand. If a PT already has a smite ability he can use it more times per day. Yes, but is that instead of or in addition to the PT's native smite ability? You still haven't given a clear and specific answer to that point. Yes, we all know that a paladin 10/PT 10 will be able to smite evil (as per the paladin ability) 5 times per day. But is he also able to simply smite (as per the PT's native ability to smite, which is different from smite evil) 3 times per day, or does he not ever gain that ability, because he is advancing smite evil instead of gaining his own type of smite? Did you not understand that that was the big question?
Elricity 03-23-08, 02:04 AM	Exactly. What I'm trying to figure out is this. As a lvl 2 paladin lvl 2 PT, is this how it works? 2 Smite Evil, 1 from Pal1, the other from bonus at PT2, + cha to hit, PalLvl+PTLvl to damage 1 Smite, from PT2, +4 hit, +PT Lvl to damage
The_Shaman 03-23-08, 03:54 AM	No, I think you get either PT smite progression or a bonus to your previous smite, not both. Thus, you'd imo get 2 smites at + cha to attack, + paladin+PT levels to damage.