Postmortal (posted from psi-boards) -- how massively imbalanced is this? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Postmortal (posted from psi-boards) -- how massively imbalanced is this? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JulesCARV
04-16-08, 11:23 PM This is a class that's been rattling around my head for a while. It has some weird ideas in it, such as accelerated manifesting progression and 3.0 psionics style MAD, along with sci-fi-ish transhumanist themes that seem slightly out of place in D&D. I previously posted it on the psi-boards (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1017706), but I thought I'd post it here too.

Anyone want to rip this baby to shreds?

POSTMORTAL

Postmortals are people of mortal stock who seek a path that allows them transcend their limitations, overcoming death (at least death through old age) and the limitations of their body in manipulating reality. Postmortals, as part of their transformation, gain immense intuitive psionic power. Many find it difficult to wield this power very proficiently, however, since it is deduced not from any form of controlled, disciplined psionics, but from a barely-controlled sundering of previous limitations on their ability to directly shape reality through thought.

Generally, postmortals refer to themselves as post-original race, not postmortal, which most regard as an excessively broad term. Humans who enter the postmortal class become posthumans, gnomes who enter the postmortal class become postgnomes, etc.

Some postmortals discover their path independently, but most are taught by other postmortals. While some postmortals might make various demands for those who seek knowledge of their secrets, the largest organization of postmortals, the Unsevered Thread, is extremely open with the knowledge of postmortality: they disseminate manuals on postmortality throughout as many libraries as they can and consider it their duty to freely teach anyone who asks, although those who receive this training are likewise expected to spread the word to others when the opportunity exists to do so. In fact, the Unsevered Thread's main frustration is in the high prerequisites of becoming postmortal, putting it out of reach to most. (That is, the entry requirements of the postmortal prestige class -- requiring being 7th level to even start, and 17th level to truly achieve immortality vis-à-vis aging.) Its members hope that eventually they will develop some process that will make the benefits of postmortality available to the masses, although its efforts have been unsucessful for many years with little sign of progress.

The Unsevered Thread has a somewhat antagonistic relationship with the Elan Council -- the Unsevered Thread has attempted to steal the secrets of the ritual for creating Elans in a botched espionage operation, hoping to improve the process to allow retention of past identity and application of the process to races other than humans, making postmortality available to more people: the Elan Council foiled the plot, and created a branch dedicated to ensuring that the secrets used in the transformation stay secret. There is also some philosophical tension between the Elan Council's reclusiveness and the Unsevered Thread's envangelism.

Hit die: d8

Requirements

Skills: Autohypnosis 8 ranks, Heal 8 ranks, Knowledge (the planes) 5 ranks, Knowledge (psionics) 10 ranks, Psicraft 6 ranks

Feats: Autonomous, Body Fuel, Mind Over Body, Psionic Body, Toughness

Special: Must have a finite lifespan

Class Skills
The postmortal's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are autohypnosis (wis), concentration (con), craft (int), heal (wis), knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (int), profession (wis), and psicraft (int).

Skill Points per Level: 2 + int
Table: The Postmortal
Base Fort Ref Will Power Powers Maximum Power
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special Points/Day Known Level Known
1 +0 +2 +2 +2 DR 1/- 3 1 1
2 +1 +3 +3 +3 Infertility, 7 3 1
Darkvision 60 ft
3 +1 +3 +3 +3 DR 2/- 15 5 2
4 +2 +4 +4 +4 Improved 24 7 3
Manifester Level
5 +2 +4 +4 +4 Timeless Body, 36 9 4
DR 3/-
6 +3 +5 +5 +5 Resistance 5 49 11 5
7 +3 +5 +5 +5 DR 4/- 66 13 6
8 +4 +6 +6 +6 Poison and 84 15 7
petrification immunity
9 +4 +6 +6 +6 Resistance 10, 105 17 8
DR 5/-
10 +5 +7 +7 +7 Transcendence 127 19 9
Class Features

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Postmortals gain no proficiency in weapons or armor.

Psionics: As they break down the barriers between their mind and physical reality, postmortals gain considerable psionic power. They gain powers known (from the psion/wilder list) and power points according to the table above. However, unlike most manifesters, postmortals do not manifest based on a single ability score, but rather have a score keyed to each discipline, as follows:

Clairsentience: Wisdom
Metacreativity: Intelligence
Psychokinesis: Strength
Psychometabolism: Constitution
Psychoportation: Dexterity
Telepathy: Charisma

To learn or manifest a power of a given level and discipline, the postmortal must have a key ability score for the discipline equal to 10 + the power's level. The saving throw DC for a postmortal's powers is equal to 10 + the power's level + the modifier of the key ability score for that power's discipline. In addition, postmortals gain bonus power points based on their highest ability score.

Damage Reduction (ex): At 1st level, a postmortal gains DR 1/-. Every odd level thereafter, the damage reduction increases by 1.

Infertility: As the postmortal takes a step away from the natural cycle of birth and death, the ability to reproduce naturally is lost. Postmortals lose no apparent sexual function, but their ova or sperm are rendered sterile at 2nd level.

Darkvision (ex): Beginning to take on the nature of an outsider, postmortals gain darkvision out to 60 feet upon gaining 2nd level. If the postmortal already has darkvision, it is extended by 60 feet.

Improved Manifester Level (ex): Starting at 4th level, the postmortal gains a bonus to her postmortal manifester level equal to her postmortal class level - 3, in addition to her ordinary postmortal manifester levels. Note that this only applies to postmortal levels, not to advancement of postmortal manifesting through any other prestige class. In effect, a postmortal of 3rd level or lower's manifester level is equal to her class level, while a postmortal of 4th level or higher's manifester level is equal to (class level x 2) - 3: 5 at level 4, 7 at level 5, etc.

Timeless Body (ex): Upon attaining 5th level, a postmortal no longer takes penalties to her ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that she has already taken, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the postmortal still dies of old age when her time is up, unless she has attained Transcendence (see below).

Resistance (ex): At 6th level, the postmortal gains resistance 5 to acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic. At 9th level, the resistance increases to 10.

Poison and Petrification Immunity (ex): At level 8, the postmortal becomes increasingly akin to an outsider, now gaining immunity to poison and petrification.

Transcendence: At tenth level, the postmortal completes her transformation, becoming an outsider with the (native) subtype. She no longer has a maximum age, and also gains immunity to poison and petrification.

In addition, a postmortal who has taken physical ability score penalties owing to aging (prior to acquiring timeless body) may be rejuvenated, eliminating those penalties, paying 1,000 xp for every point of age-based penalty eliminated. Rejuvenating from middle age to youth costs 3,000 xp, rejuvenating from old age to middle age costs 6,000 xp, and rejuvenating from venerable age to old age costs 9,000 xp. A single stage of rejuvenation -- from venerable to old, old to middle-aged, or middle-aged to young -- requires 24 hours of quiet focus and meditation.

UPDATE: Made some changes. Older version from table on down below.

Hit die: d4

Requirements

Skills: Autohypnosis 8 ranks, Heal 8 ranks, Knowledge (the planes) 5 ranks, Knowledge (psionics) 10 ranks, Psicraft 6 ranks

Feats: Autonomous, Body Fuel, Mind Over Body, Psionic Body, Toughness

Special: Must have a finite lifespan

Class Skills
The postmortal's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are autohypnosis (wis), concentration (con), craft (int), heal (wis), knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (int), profession (wis), and psicraft (int).

Skill Points per Level: 2 + int
Table: The Postmortal
Base Fort Ref Will Power Powers Maximum Power
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special Points/Day Known Level Known
1 +0 +0 +0 +2 DR 1/- 3 2 1
2 +1 +0 +0 +3 Infertility 7 3 2
3 +1 +1 +1 +3 Darkvision 60ft 15 5 3
4 +2 +1 +1 +4 DR 2/- 24 6 4
5 +2 +1 +1 +4 Timeless Body 36 8 5
6 +3 +2 +2 +5 Resistance 5 49 9 6
7 +3 +2 +2 +5 DR 3/- 66 11 7
8 +4 +2 +2 +6 Death Immunity 84 12 8
9 +4 +3 +3 +6 Resistance 10 105 14 9
10 +5 +3 +3 +7 Transcendence, 127 15 9
Dr 4/-
Class Features

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Postmortals gain no proficiency in weapons or armor.

Psionics: As they break down the barriers between their mind and physical reality, postmortals gain considerable psionic power. They gain powers known (from the psion/wilder list) and power points according to the table above. A postmortal also gains a manifester level equal to twice her class level. However, unlike most manifesters, postmortals do not manifest based on a single ability score, but rather have a score keyed to each discipline, as follows:

Clairsentience: Wisdom
Metacreativity: Intelligence
Psychokinesis: Strength
Psychometabolism: Constitution
Psychoportation: Dexterity
Telepathy: Charisma

To learn or manifest a power of a given level and discipline, the postmortal must have a key ability score for the discipline equal to 10 + the power's level. The saving throw DC for a postmortal's powers is equal to 10 + the power's level + the modifier of the key ability score for that power's discipline. In addition, postmortals gain a pool of power points based on each ability score, equal to manifester level x ability bonus / 2, or class level x ability bonus since manifester level = 2 x class level for a postmortal. However, power points gained from a given ability score may only be spent manifesting powers of the discipline keyed to that ability score.

Damage Reduction (ex): At 1st level, a postmortal gains DR 1/-. Every three levels thereafter (at 4th, 7th, and 10th), damage reduction increases by 1.

Infertility: As the postmortal takes a step away from the natural cycle of birth and death, the ability to reproduce naturally is lost. Postmortals lose no apparent sexual function, but their ova or sperm are rendered sterile at 2nd level.

Darkvision (ex): Beginning to take on the nature of an outsider, postmortals gain darkvision out to 60 feet upon gaining 3rd level. If the postmortal already has darkvision, it is extended by 60 feet.

Timeless Body (ex): Upon attaining 5th level, a postmortal no longer takes penalties to her ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that she has already taken, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the postmortal still dies of old age when her time is up, unless she has attained Transcendence (see below).

Resistance (ex): At 6th level, the postmortal gains resistance 5 to acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic. At 9th level, the resistance increases to 10.

Death Immunity (su): Increasingly understanding the nature of death and how to overcome it, the postmortal gains immunity to spells and powers with the [death] descriptor at level 8.

Transcendence: At tenth level, the postmortal completes her transformation, becoming an outsider with the (native) subtype. She no longer has a maximum age, and also gains immunity to poison and petrification.
Wih
04-17-08, 02:17 AM The bonus PP for the different ability scores is whacked - assuming a 20 in each stat by level 20 (not too difficult), that's an extra 300 PP. You'll be getting more PP from that class feature than from the class itself. That, and it'll be very irritating keeping track of 7 pools of power points. While it's a nice thought, it's a bad mechanic as it's too complex.
Pretty much what my opinion of this class comes down to is that the class features have nothing going for them, and the manifesting is too powerful compared to it. Find a way to balance the two and it'll be good - right now all this class is good for is taking 1 level of, and then finishing with the 9 levels of Slayer (or something similar) that continues manifesting.
Summary of problems with the manifesting:
You get a additional level of manifesting every level. If this can be changed somehow it will be more balanced. My suggestion would be either delaying the Maximum Level by one level - 9th level at 10th, 2nd at 3rd. The other way would be making it a 15th level class enterable from 6th-20th, with the 9th level progression over those 15th levels.
The caster level is 2*Class Level. This means that the caster level will stack up very fast, especiall if someone takes a class that continues manifesting past level 10. Either change it or make it only go up by 1 each level after 10.
The manifesting it too good compared to the class features. There's nothing makign a character want to take this class, rather than using another class to advance the manifesting of this class.

My 3cp.
JulesCARV
04-20-08, 02:29 AM Okay. I've updated it -- I tried to keep your critique in mind: manifester level is now based on a class-level dependent class feature that kicks in at level 4. Advancement in maximum power level is delayed by 1 level. Bonus power points are now based on whichever ability score is highest. Also boosted saves, hit die, and DR to make it more worthwhile besides manifesting and also give it more of an outsider-ish feel. I'm a bit worried that the hit die and saves might overpower the non-manifesting aspect, though.
AtomicWarlock
04-22-08, 10:07 PM I'm not sure that the minimum entry level is 7, unless you're taking flaws;
Assuming you have a bonus feat at first level, you'll have 5 feats total by 9th level, meaning you'll only be able to enter the class at 10th level.

Also, what kind of character will enter this class? It looks like from the feats that you've geared it towards a psion, but then you've given them a separate power progression to go along with that, which would probably make it hard to play. If you meant this, you might want to say that they lose their previous power selection (ala the cleric prestige class Ur-Priest) upon entering.

It's kind of odd to have infertility as a class feature, just putting it out there. What's the point?

Overall, though, not bad; I really do like the concept behind it.
JulesCARV
04-24-08, 12:33 AM I'm not sure that the minimum entry level is 7, unless you're taking flaws;
Assuming you have a bonus feat at first level, you'll have 5 feats total by 9th level, meaning you'll only be able to enter the class at 10th level.

Also, what kind of character will enter this class? It looks like from the feats that you've geared it towards a psion, but then you've given them a separate power progression to go along with that, which would probably make it hard to play. If you meant this, you might want to say that they lose their previous power selection (ala the cleric prestige class Ur-Priest) upon entering.

The simplest route into this class is to be an egoist: all the necessary skills are in-class, and you get a bonus feat at 1st and 5th levels, meaning that you can qualify by 7th level (enter by 8th) without even needing to be a human or flaws or anything (three feats from levels 1-7 normally, two feats at 1st and 5th from egoist levels). If you can find another way, though, that's cool: factotum or something?

I realize that it's a bit ur-priest like, but thematically, I don't really see any particular reason for them to lose their previous psionic abilities.

One interesting thing that occurs to me is that an egoist who enters this class with intelligence as the best ability score will be best off using psychometabolism powers from egoist levels, with the discipline access and all that, but will be best taking metacreativity powers as a postmortal.

So, is your view that this class is underpowered at mid-to-low levels within the prestige class? (i.e., you start off as an egoist 7, and you're fine, but then you become an egoist 7/postmortal 1, and by the time you're an egoist 7/postmortal 3 or the like you're really struggling to survive; you eventually may bound back once you're an egoist 7/postmortal 10, but that's not much consolation if you died at level 11.)

I'm just wondering how to make it work. I suppose it could be a "continue existing manifesting" type class, but that just conflicts with my vision of the class. Meh.

It's kind of odd to have infertility as a class feature, just putting it out there. What's the point?

Eh... somehow seemed right to me. :) It's a sort of symbol of withdrawal from the cycle of death and birth. Or something. I suppose it's just a bit of flavor, mostly. Heh.

Anyway, thanks for the critique, AtomicWarlock. You've given me some things to think about. I'm not sure I have any clear ideas for solutions, but it's good at least figure out where the problems are.
awaken_D_M_golem
05-11-08, 04:00 PM You mentioned Ur-Priest and this is certainly more difficult to get into, and then get less out of it.
I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but a duplicate of the Ur progression, reduced in your psionic way, without the borkny (su) thing Ur has, and getting the semi-DvR stuff instead, is ... reasonable to mediocre powerwise.
Flavor ??
Very flavorful, and it betrays your sig quote (of having no personality ;) ).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JulesCARV 04-16-08, 11:23 PM	This is a class that's been rattling around my head for a while. It has some weird ideas in it, such as accelerated manifesting progression and 3.0 psionics style MAD, along with sci-fi-ish transhumanist themes that seem slightly out of place in D&D. I previously posted it on the psi-boards (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1017706), but I thought I'd post it here too. Anyone want to rip this baby to shreds? POSTMORTAL Postmortals are people of mortal stock who seek a path that allows them transcend their limitations, overcoming death (at least death through old age) and the limitations of their body in manipulating reality. Postmortals, as part of their transformation, gain immense intuitive psionic power. Many find it difficult to wield this power very proficiently, however, since it is deduced not from any form of controlled, disciplined psionics, but from a barely-controlled sundering of previous limitations on their ability to directly shape reality through thought. Generally, postmortals refer to themselves as post-original race, not postmortal, which most regard as an excessively broad term. Humans who enter the postmortal class become posthumans, gnomes who enter the postmortal class become postgnomes, etc. Some postmortals discover their path independently, but most are taught by other postmortals. While some postmortals might make various demands for those who seek knowledge of their secrets, the largest organization of postmortals, the Unsevered Thread, is extremely open with the knowledge of postmortality: they disseminate manuals on postmortality throughout as many libraries as they can and consider it their duty to freely teach anyone who asks, although those who receive this training are likewise expected to spread the word to others when the opportunity exists to do so. In fact, the Unsevered Thread's main frustration is in the high prerequisites of becoming postmortal, putting it out of reach to most. (That is, the entry requirements of the postmortal prestige class -- requiring being 7th level to even start, and 17th level to truly achieve immortality vis-à-vis aging.) Its members hope that eventually they will develop some process that will make the benefits of postmortality available to the masses, although its efforts have been unsucessful for many years with little sign of progress. The Unsevered Thread has a somewhat antagonistic relationship with the Elan Council -- the Unsevered Thread has attempted to steal the secrets of the ritual for creating Elans in a botched espionage operation, hoping to improve the process to allow retention of past identity and application of the process to races other than humans, making postmortality available to more people: the Elan Council foiled the plot, and created a branch dedicated to ensuring that the secrets used in the transformation stay secret. There is also some philosophical tension between the Elan Council's reclusiveness and the Unsevered Thread's envangelism. Hit die: d8 Requirements Skills: Autohypnosis 8 ranks, Heal 8 ranks, Knowledge (the planes) 5 ranks, Knowledge (psionics) 10 ranks, Psicraft 6 ranks Feats: Autonomous, Body Fuel, Mind Over Body, Psionic Body, Toughness Special: Must have a finite lifespan Class Skills The postmortal's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are autohypnosis (wis), concentration (con), craft (int), heal (wis), knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (int), profession (wis), and psicraft (int). Skill Points per Level: 2 + int Table: The Postmortal Base Fort Ref Will Power Powers Maximum Power Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special Points/Day Known Level Known 1 +0 +2 +2 +2 DR 1/- 3 1 1 2 +1 +3 +3 +3 Infertility, 7 3 1 Darkvision 60 ft 3 +1 +3 +3 +3 DR 2/- 15 5 2 4 +2 +4 +4 +4 Improved 24 7 3 Manifester Level 5 +2 +4 +4 +4 Timeless Body, 36 9 4 DR 3/- 6 +3 +5 +5 +5 Resistance 5 49 11 5 7 +3 +5 +5 +5 DR 4/- 66 13 6 8 +4 +6 +6 +6 Poison and 84 15 7 petrification immunity 9 +4 +6 +6 +6 Resistance 10, 105 17 8 DR 5/- 10 +5 +7 +7 +7 Transcendence 127 19 9 Class Features Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Postmortals gain no proficiency in weapons or armor. Psionics: As they break down the barriers between their mind and physical reality, postmortals gain considerable psionic power. They gain powers known (from the psion/wilder list) and power points according to the table above. However, unlike most manifesters, postmortals do not manifest based on a single ability score, but rather have a score keyed to each discipline, as follows: Clairsentience: Wisdom Metacreativity: Intelligence Psychokinesis: Strength Psychometabolism: Constitution Psychoportation: Dexterity Telepathy: Charisma To learn or manifest a power of a given level and discipline, the postmortal must have a key ability score for the discipline equal to 10 + the power's level. The saving throw DC for a postmortal's powers is equal to 10 + the power's level + the modifier of the key ability score for that power's discipline. In addition, postmortals gain bonus power points based on their highest ability score. Damage Reduction (ex): At 1st level, a postmortal gains DR 1/-. Every odd level thereafter, the damage reduction increases by 1. Infertility: As the postmortal takes a step away from the natural cycle of birth and death, the ability to reproduce naturally is lost. Postmortals lose no apparent sexual function, but their ova or sperm are rendered sterile at 2nd level. Darkvision (ex): Beginning to take on the nature of an outsider, postmortals gain darkvision out to 60 feet upon gaining 2nd level. If the postmortal already has darkvision, it is extended by 60 feet. Improved Manifester Level (ex): Starting at 4th level, the postmortal gains a bonus to her postmortal manifester level equal to her postmortal class level - 3, in addition to her ordinary postmortal manifester levels. Note that this only applies to postmortal levels, not to advancement of postmortal manifesting through any other prestige class. In effect, a postmortal of 3rd level or lower's manifester level is equal to her class level, while a postmortal of 4th level or higher's manifester level is equal to (class level x 2) - 3: 5 at level 4, 7 at level 5, etc. Timeless Body (ex): Upon attaining 5th level, a postmortal no longer takes penalties to her ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that she has already taken, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the postmortal still dies of old age when her time is up, unless she has attained Transcendence (see below). Resistance (ex): At 6th level, the postmortal gains resistance 5 to acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic. At 9th level, the resistance increases to 10. Poison and Petrification Immunity (ex): At level 8, the postmortal becomes increasingly akin to an outsider, now gaining immunity to poison and petrification. Transcendence: At tenth level, the postmortal completes her transformation, becoming an outsider with the (native) subtype. She no longer has a maximum age, and also gains immunity to poison and petrification. In addition, a postmortal who has taken physical ability score penalties owing to aging (prior to acquiring timeless body) may be rejuvenated, eliminating those penalties, paying 1,000 xp for every point of age-based penalty eliminated. Rejuvenating from middle age to youth costs 3,000 xp, rejuvenating from old age to middle age costs 6,000 xp, and rejuvenating from venerable age to old age costs 9,000 xp. A single stage of rejuvenation -- from venerable to old, old to middle-aged, or middle-aged to young -- requires 24 hours of quiet focus and meditation. UPDATE: Made some changes. Older version from table on down below. Hit die: d4 Requirements Skills: Autohypnosis 8 ranks, Heal 8 ranks, Knowledge (the planes) 5 ranks, Knowledge (psionics) 10 ranks, Psicraft 6 ranks Feats: Autonomous, Body Fuel, Mind Over Body, Psionic Body, Toughness Special: Must have a finite lifespan Class Skills The postmortal's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are autohypnosis (wis), concentration (con), craft (int), heal (wis), knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (int), profession (wis), and psicraft (int). Skill Points per Level: 2 + int Table: The Postmortal Base Fort Ref Will Power Powers Maximum Power Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special Points/Day Known Level Known 1 +0 +0 +0 +2 DR 1/- 3 2 1 2 +1 +0 +0 +3 Infertility 7 3 2 3 +1 +1 +1 +3 Darkvision 60ft 15 5 3 4 +2 +1 +1 +4 DR 2/- 24 6 4 5 +2 +1 +1 +4 Timeless Body 36 8 5 6 +3 +2 +2 +5 Resistance 5 49 9 6 7 +3 +2 +2 +5 DR 3/- 66 11 7 8 +4 +2 +2 +6 Death Immunity 84 12 8 9 +4 +3 +3 +6 Resistance 10 105 14 9 10 +5 +3 +3 +7 Transcendence, 127 15 9 Dr 4/- Class Features Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Postmortals gain no proficiency in weapons or armor. Psionics: As they break down the barriers between their mind and physical reality, postmortals gain considerable psionic power. They gain powers known (from the psion/wilder list) and power points according to the table above. A postmortal also gains a manifester level equal to twice her class level. However, unlike most manifesters, postmortals do not manifest based on a single ability score, but rather have a score keyed to each discipline, as follows: Clairsentience: Wisdom Metacreativity: Intelligence Psychokinesis: Strength Psychometabolism: Constitution Psychoportation: Dexterity Telepathy: Charisma To learn or manifest a power of a given level and discipline, the postmortal must have a key ability score for the discipline equal to 10 + the power's level. The saving throw DC for a postmortal's powers is equal to 10 + the power's level + the modifier of the key ability score for that power's discipline. In addition, postmortals gain a pool of power points based on each ability score, equal to manifester level x ability bonus / 2, or class level x ability bonus since manifester level = 2 x class level for a postmortal. However, power points gained from a given ability score may only be spent manifesting powers of the discipline keyed to that ability score. Damage Reduction (ex): At 1st level, a postmortal gains DR 1/-. Every three levels thereafter (at 4th, 7th, and 10th), damage reduction increases by 1. Infertility: As the postmortal takes a step away from the natural cycle of birth and death, the ability to reproduce naturally is lost. Postmortals lose no apparent sexual function, but their ova or sperm are rendered sterile at 2nd level. Darkvision (ex): Beginning to take on the nature of an outsider, postmortals gain darkvision out to 60 feet upon gaining 3rd level. If the postmortal already has darkvision, it is extended by 60 feet. Timeless Body (ex): Upon attaining 5th level, a postmortal no longer takes penalties to her ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that she has already taken, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the postmortal still dies of old age when her time is up, unless she has attained Transcendence (see below). Resistance (ex): At 6th level, the postmortal gains resistance 5 to acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic. At 9th level, the resistance increases to 10. Death Immunity (su): Increasingly understanding the nature of death and how to overcome it, the postmortal gains immunity to spells and powers with the [death] descriptor at level 8. Transcendence: At tenth level, the postmortal completes her transformation, becoming an outsider with the (native) subtype. She no longer has a maximum age, and also gains immunity to poison and petrification.
Wih 04-17-08, 02:17 AM	The bonus PP for the different ability scores is whacked - assuming a 20 in each stat by level 20 (not too difficult), that's an extra 300 PP. You'll be getting more PP from that class feature than from the class itself. That, and it'll be very irritating keeping track of 7 pools of power points. While it's a nice thought, it's a bad mechanic as it's too complex. Pretty much what my opinion of this class comes down to is that the class features have nothing going for them, and the manifesting is too powerful compared to it. Find a way to balance the two and it'll be good - right now all this class is good for is taking 1 level of, and then finishing with the 9 levels of Slayer (or something similar) that continues manifesting. Summary of problems with the manifesting: You get a additional level of manifesting every level. If this can be changed somehow it will be more balanced. My suggestion would be either delaying the Maximum Level by one level - 9th level at 10th, 2nd at 3rd. The other way would be making it a 15th level class enterable from 6th-20th, with the 9th level progression over those 15th levels. The caster level is 2*Class Level. This means that the caster level will stack up very fast, especiall if someone takes a class that continues manifesting past level 10. Either change it or make it only go up by 1 each level after 10. The manifesting it too good compared to the class features. There's nothing makign a character want to take this class, rather than using another class to advance the manifesting of this class. My 3cp.
JulesCARV 04-20-08, 02:29 AM	Okay. I've updated it -- I tried to keep your critique in mind: manifester level is now based on a class-level dependent class feature that kicks in at level 4. Advancement in maximum power level is delayed by 1 level. Bonus power points are now based on whichever ability score is highest. Also boosted saves, hit die, and DR to make it more worthwhile besides manifesting and also give it more of an outsider-ish feel. I'm a bit worried that the hit die and saves might overpower the non-manifesting aspect, though.
AtomicWarlock 04-22-08, 10:07 PM	I'm not sure that the minimum entry level is 7, unless you're taking flaws; Assuming you have a bonus feat at first level, you'll have 5 feats total by 9th level, meaning you'll only be able to enter the class at 10th level. Also, what kind of character will enter this class? It looks like from the feats that you've geared it towards a psion, but then you've given them a separate power progression to go along with that, which would probably make it hard to play. If you meant this, you might want to say that they lose their previous power selection (ala the cleric prestige class Ur-Priest) upon entering. It's kind of odd to have infertility as a class feature, just putting it out there. What's the point? Overall, though, not bad; I really do like the concept behind it.
JulesCARV 04-24-08, 12:33 AM	I'm not sure that the minimum entry level is 7, unless you're taking flaws; Assuming you have a bonus feat at first level, you'll have 5 feats total by 9th level, meaning you'll only be able to enter the class at 10th level. Also, what kind of character will enter this class? It looks like from the feats that you've geared it towards a psion, but then you've given them a separate power progression to go along with that, which would probably make it hard to play. If you meant this, you might want to say that they lose their previous power selection (ala the cleric prestige class Ur-Priest) upon entering. The simplest route into this class is to be an egoist: all the necessary skills are in-class, and you get a bonus feat at 1st and 5th levels, meaning that you can qualify by 7th level (enter by 8th) without even needing to be a human or flaws or anything (three feats from levels 1-7 normally, two feats at 1st and 5th from egoist levels). If you can find another way, though, that's cool: factotum or something? I realize that it's a bit ur-priest like, but thematically, I don't really see any particular reason for them to lose their previous psionic abilities. One interesting thing that occurs to me is that an egoist who enters this class with intelligence as the best ability score will be best off using psychometabolism powers from egoist levels, with the discipline access and all that, but will be best taking metacreativity powers as a postmortal. So, is your view that this class is underpowered at mid-to-low levels within the prestige class? (i.e., you start off as an egoist 7, and you're fine, but then you become an egoist 7/postmortal 1, and by the time you're an egoist 7/postmortal 3 or the like you're really struggling to survive; you eventually may bound back once you're an egoist 7/postmortal 10, but that's not much consolation if you died at level 11.) I'm just wondering how to make it work. I suppose it could be a "continue existing manifesting" type class, but that just conflicts with my vision of the class. Meh. It's kind of odd to have infertility as a class feature, just putting it out there. What's the point? Eh... somehow seemed right to me. :) It's a sort of symbol of withdrawal from the cycle of death and birth. Or something. I suppose it's just a bit of flavor, mostly. Heh. Anyway, thanks for the critique, AtomicWarlock. You've given me some things to think about. I'm not sure I have any clear ideas for solutions, but it's good at least figure out where the problems are.
awaken_D_M_golem 05-11-08, 04:00 PM	You mentioned Ur-Priest and this is certainly more difficult to get into, and then get less out of it. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but a duplicate of the Ur progression, reduced in your psionic way, without the borkny (su) thing Ur has, and getting the semi-DvR stuff instead, is ... reasonable to mediocre powerwise. Flavor ?? Very flavorful, and it betrays your sig quote (of having no personality ;) ).