Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Maurts12 09-25-07, 10:00 AM	Ok so I need help finding a prestiege class. I'm a level 6 sorcerer but I like to plan ahead. My feats are Eschew Materials, Draconic Heritage (silver), and Sudden Still. My race is silverborn (custom race for our campaign, loosely based on silverbrow humans). If it matters the books I have are the DM guide, Player Handbook, MM, Complete Adventurer/Divine/Arcane. Any suggestions help!
Voidboy 09-25-07, 10:28 AM	Sudden still? What purpose does it serves? Anyhow, you can't get into Incantarix as you are, which is quite sad. You should try Dragonheart Mage though, which you qualify for and gives you 4 draconic feats (consider Draconic Vigor, Draconic Senses, Draconic Flight and of course Draconic Legacy later on). Losing 2 caster levels is a big hit though. You could finish with 4 levels of Fatespinner, which is a nice topper.
Maurts12 09-25-07, 10:37 AM	Umm... dragonheart mage isn't in any of the books I have... and I meant to say I had Still Spell. I was typing in Sudden Maximise but I remembered I didn't take that because I didn't already have 1 metamagic. Guess I forgot to backspace all the way.
The_Shaman 09-25-07, 11:20 AM	Dragonheart mage is iirc in Races of the Dragon. BTW, just how do you have a race based on the silverbrow humans when that race is not, iirc, in any of the books you have? Among the below books good choices might be the the Sacred Exorcist (ties in well with the silver dragon heritage, but requires a lot of rank in cross-class skills - the human paragon levels can help there), blood mage (hard qualifications, otherwise good at least for a few levels), fatespinner (req. more ranks in skills), elemental savant (up to 4 levels, ideally). Mage of the Arcane Order, Initiate of the 7-fold veil and Archmage are all good PrCs as well, but will require more than a few extra feats. There are some other has some classes that can be quite nice for you as well, but they almost require multiclassing (daggerspell mage, enlightened fist, virtuoso, etc). Also, soon you will be able to qualify for the Master Transmogrifist class without any other feats, but I'm not sure how good it is. At most, I suggest you take something like 6 levels). I suggest your choice be motivated by what the party needs and what fits your character. BTW, the human paragon is in UA but is freely accessible as a part of the SRD, say at d20srd.org
Puca 09-25-07, 11:34 AM	Prestige classes are not obligatory. You take them for a reason not just because they are there. Dont ask which PrC you should take, tell us what you want to do better or differently than you do now, and then people can offer you some direction.
Maurts12 09-25-07, 12:46 PM	The DM flipped through the dragon magic book in a store and tried to recreate it to the best of his recollection. Anyway what I really want from my class is something that lets me get more out of my spells in the way of the Archmage's High Arcana or get more from my familliar (are there any prestige classes about familliars I can look for?). So aside from the archmage class, anything that can be suggested would be great.
Puca 09-25-07, 01:03 PM	Published, there are not any familiar-based classes that I know of. While there may be others, the only PrCs I know that even advance familiars are the Alienist from CA and the Flesh Warper from LoM. There are some homebrewed ones out there, easy enough to find on the boards. As far as the High Arcana-type stuff, you are looking at trading out spell-slots for other abilities? Or are there Archmage abilities that you like? What abilities do you want? Arcane Fire? Arcane Power? What do you mean "get more out of your spells?" Look, what type of sorcerer are you? A blaster? generalist? manipulator? Is there any kind of theme or flavor? You have Draconic heritage: do you focus on Cold spells? Any way you RP this?
Maurts12 09-25-07, 01:13 PM	I think generalist, but I have an interest in spells with more than one use like prestidigitation and shrink item or reverse gravity (can't actually cast that one yet). I chose silver heritage because I just like silver dragons and I figured the other draconic feats would be useful. In RP terms my character likes having fun, his fights take longer than normal because I don't use direct damage spells alot but they're pretty fun. As for "getting more out of my spells" what I meant was I'd like a PrC with abilities that let me 'customize' my spells in some way.
The_Shaman 09-25-07, 01:16 PM	Prestige classes are not obligatory. You take them for a reason not just because they are there. Normally, you are right, but he is making a sorcerer :P Of course, your point is perfectly right: most PrCs are specializations of some sort. As for getting more out of your spells, I'd say that would translate into more metamagic feats. It is a pity about the incantatrix, as even with some of the crazier stuff fixed (cooperative metamagic, anyone?) the PrC offers you incredible versatility with magic. AFAIK the closest to it from the books you mention is the Mage of the Arcane Order from CArc, although I find it to be cheezy for sorcerers. The Loremaster from the DMG is quite versatile as well, but the skill focus in a knowledge skill and the divinations known requirements are very hard for sorcerers to get around. Apart from that, PrCs that give you extra focus in one aspect of magic at little or no cost can help you as well (i.e. first 4 levels of Elemental Savant, first 4 or 9 levels of blood mage, wild mage levels etc). However, the prerequisites can sometimes be a hard cost in themselves. Familiars are often an underrepresented feature in PrCs, but there is a reason for this - the familiar progression is practically the ONLY thing you lose when you get into a PrC as a sorcerer. AFAIK from the books you mention, only the alienist gets a progression (the LoM fleshcrafter got some bonuses, as does the RotW arcane hierophant), but while it's an okay PrC for sorcerers, it's a little... weird. It is definitely useful, of course - bonus feats, improved familiar and conjurations are nothing to sneer at - but it makes your character harder to roleplay and might lead to inter-party clashes.
Puca 09-25-07, 01:22 PM	I think generalist, but I have an interest in spells with more than one use like prestidigitation and shrink item or reverse gravity (can't actually cast that one yet).You should do this as much as possible. Grease is another good one for that list. Summon Monsters and Silent Images too. Later, you cant beat Shadow Evocation and Conjuration. I chose silver heritage because I just like silver dragons and I figured the other draconic feats would be useful.Well, you can go Draconic Breath. That lets you convert spell-slots to have a nice area attack without taking up a spells-know slot. Draconic Power is going to increase the DC of all your cold spells. Im not particularly fond of this class, especially for a generalist, but that can take you toward a "cold theme" and then maybe the Elemental Savant (CA) is a way to go. In RP terms my character likes having fun, his fights take longer than normal because I don't use direct damage spells alot but they're pretty fun.Direct damage is typically the least effective way to go, in my opinion. Debuff and let the melee guys clean up the mess. As for "getting more out of my spells" what I meant was I'd like a PrC with abilities that let me 'customize' my spells in some way.Most PrCs, that I know of, that customize spells are going to require focus. Like the Alienist PrC I mentioned. You start summoning pseudonatural creatures instead of normal ones. But that takes some degree of focusing on summoning.
Maurts12 09-25-07, 01:32 PM	If it helps, its just me, my brother (fighter), and our DM. I can see how shadow evocation and conjuration will be useful and grease but why exactly summon monster? I've always thought that the effectiveness of a summon spell kinda stops when you can't summon anything that can take more than a hit or two. For my draconic heritage I'm planning on getting Breath and Presence and try to get some metamagic feats. And if it matters, I view silver dragons more of beings of air than ice. As for a spell focus... what does reverse gravity fall under? I really like that spell =D Edit: Oh and Telekenisis
madbliza 09-25-07, 02:18 PM	I'd say Master of the Unseen Hand. It'll stunt you'll spell progression but if all you care about is tossing people around like rag dolls. That may be up your alley. It's all about Telekinesis.
Maurts12 09-25-07, 03:02 PM	I don't have the book with that class and I meant that I like fun spells like Reverse Gravity and Telekenisis.
Puca 09-25-07, 09:56 PM	If it helps, its just me, my brother (fighter), and our DM.You may wish to get Leadership. A cohort would be a good addition to your party. I can see how shadow evocation and conjuration will be useful and grease but why exactly summon monster? I've always thought that the effectiveness of a summon spell kinda stops when you can't summon anything that can take more than a hit or two. You are thinking about using them to attack. No, they will always be much lower level than the opponents you face. But how do you get by traps? Send a celestial monkey to do it? What about giving your fighter a flanking bonus? What happens when the fighter isnt there? Use one as a meat shield (one or two rounds of not hitting you is better than hitting you.) How about grappling an opponent so it can get away? You can do a lot with even a weak creature. As for a spell focus... what does reverse gravity fall under? I really like that spell =D Edit: Oh and TelekenisisThey are both transmutation, but Reverse Gravity doesnt have a save, and you can do a lot with Telekinesis without offering one either. Generally, I find transmutation doesnt benefit as much from Spell Focus as some other schools.
Ultima0071 09-25-07, 11:44 PM	The closest thing to Archmage that I can think of is the Warlock. But that isn't a PrC and it doesn't use "spells." You could make your own PrC and then have your DM PEACH it. Or, just ask one of us to make it for you ;)
madbliza 09-26-07, 11:39 AM	Master of the Unseen Hand is in the Complete Warrior. Keep in mind through, you get no advancement to your spellcaster level. That's the only big drawback I've ever had with this class.