PrC's with Full arcane/divine casting? [Archive] - Wizards Community

PrC's with Full arcane/divine casting? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mad_Jack
12-15-07, 08:36 AM Just out of curiosity, is there any PrC other than Mystic Theurge that gives full divine and arcane spellcasting? It doesn't quite fit the idea I had for a character, but I haven't been able to think of any others so far...
Fireclave
12-15-07, 08:55 AM AFAIK, the Mystic Theurge is as good as it gets for progressing both divine and arcane casting at the same time. The Geomancer class in the Complete Divine allows you to progress your arcane or divine each level, but that's probably not what you're looking for.

What kind of character are you trying to create?
Mad_Jack
12-15-07, 09:00 AM Yeah, I didn't really think so... But there's a couple of the splatbooks (including Complete Divine) that I didn't bother to pick up, so I figured I'd ask...

I was sort of looking for something with better than just d4 hit points...
blade265
12-15-07, 10:47 AM Does it have to be divine and arcane together?There's the Eldritch Disciple which is Warlock and Divine,
"CLASS FEATURES
In addition to improving your existing divine spellcasting and invocation-using abilities, as a divine disciple you gain the ability to channel positive or negative energy for a variety of purposes. In particular, the eldritch spellweave ability allows you to combine the powers of both classes for a potent effect." Complete Mage p53, or there's the Eldritch Theurge, Arcane and Warlock.
"CLASS FEATURES
As you advance as an eldritch theurge, your skill with both arcane spells and invocations increases until you're able to combine them into a single potent energy." Complete Mage p57
Mad_Jack
12-15-07, 11:52 AM Well, my original character idea was a cleric/theif, a mobile combat medic, and I was looking to branch out into a little bit of arcane magic as well... So I was trying to figure out how I could dip into something that would bring my casting up a few levels on both sides of the equation. The 2nd level spell requirements for both cleric and wiz for the Mystic Theurge are a bit too much effort considering that I was only really looking for 2nd level wiz spells in the first place. I think I'm trying to juggle too many balls by trying to cheese the extra casting levels into the mix. It'd just pull me too far away from the original concept.
StevenO
12-15-07, 01:53 PM If needing 2nd level arcane and divine spells is too much for you to consider taking MT you are basically out of luck.

I know of one other PrC that offers full arcane and divine casting levels (plus BAB as well) but the Foulchan Lyrist (sorry I butcher the name but it is in CAdv) takes ten levels meeting the prereq and is geared more towards Bard/Druid casting.
FrostWolf
12-15-07, 02:15 PM races of the wild. Arcane hierphant. Made for wiz/druid builds. Comes with the neat bonus of making your animal companion ALSO your familiar, and arcane casting in druid armors.
Fireclave
12-15-07, 04:11 PM Well, my original character idea was a cleric/theif, a mobile combat medic, and I was looking to branch out into a little bit of arcane magic as well... So I was trying to figure out how I could dip into something that would bring my casting up a few levels on both sides of the equation. The 2nd level spell requirements for both cleric and wiz for the Mystic Theurge are a bit too much effort considering that I was only really looking for 2nd level wiz spells in the first place. I think I'm trying to juggle too many balls by trying to cheese the extra casting levels into the mix. It'd just pull me too far away from the original concept.

You're going to spread yourself too thin. Honestly, you won't get much out of only a few levels of wizard. Especially so if you're adding levels of rogue in there as well. Clerics are already one of the baddest dudes on the block with full casting to boot. Besides, Mystic Thurge isn't all that great anywy. Being that behind casting really hurts until you get fairly high in level, and even then it still hurts. And if you were planning on doing martial combat, the lowered Bab and loss of armor sans twilight mithral chain (due to arcane spell failure) can really hurt.

Though, if you really want some arcane spellcasting, try picking up the Spell Domain (SC). It gives you access to three spells that allow you to duplicate other classes' spellcasting: Anyspell, Greater Anyspell, and Limited Wish. Cheese complete.

You could also try dropping your cleric levels for wizard levels and take the Arcane Disciple feat (CD), which will allow you to prep domain spells as arcane (though you'll need to not dump Wis to make full use). Choose a god with the Healing Domain, and go into a prestige class like Arcane Trickster or Shadowmage (http://www.wakinglands.com/htm_files/prestige_classes_shadowmage.htm).
Mad_Jack
12-16-07, 05:46 PM I figured out what I'm going to do with this guy. He'll pretty much be playing the role of a bard. Since he's meant to be a support character, upping the party to seven peeps (including a cleric and wizard), I think I can get away with going cleric/rogue/wiz with two levels of mystic theurge... I rolled decent stats - including a pair of 17's - so I'm going to alternate cleric/rogue until 6th level, then do wizard 3, mystic theurge 2, and then go back to alternating cleric/rogue.
My base attack won't be great, but I put one of the 17's into Dex and grabbed weapon finesse even though I'd be mostly ranged combat when not casting spells. It'll still be better than the straight wiz progression, though. At 11th level, I'll end up having 3rd level wiz spells and 3rd level cleric spells, eventually up to 5th level cleric spells. My domains are going to be Healing and either Spell or Magic. I figure this guy's gonna handle some of the in-combat healing to let the real party cleric toss more spells, and play back-up/bodyguard for the party wizard when he's not healing somebody. Outside of combat he'll mostly be tag-teaming with the party's rogue.
Jaxgaret
12-16-07, 06:02 PM I figured out what I'm going to do with this guy. He'll pretty much be playing the role of a bard. Since he's meant to be a support character, upping the party to seven peeps (including a cleric and wizard), I think I can get away with going cleric/rogue/wiz with two levels of mystic theurge... I rolled decent stats - including a pair of 17's - so I'm going to alternate cleric/rogue until 6th level, then do wizard 3, mystic theurge 2, and then go back to alternating cleric/rogue.
My base attack won't be great, but I put one of the 17's into Dex and grabbed weapon finesse even though I'd be mostly ranged combat when not casting spells. It'll still be better than the straight wiz progression, though. At 11th level, I'll end up having 3rd level wiz spells and 3rd level cleric spells, eventually up to 5th level cleric spells. My domains are going to be Healing and either Spell or Magic. I figure this guy's gonna handle some of the in-combat healing to let the real party cleric toss more spells, and play back-up/bodyguard for the party wizard when he's not healing somebody. Outside of combat he'll mostly be tag-teaming with the party's rogue.

...

Why don't you just play a Bard? Your character will be much better off.
calronmoonflower
12-16-07, 07:36 PM Well, my original character idea was a cleric/theif, a mobile combat medic, and I was looking to branch out into a little bit of arcane magic as well... So I was trying to figure out how I could dip into something that would bring my casting up a few levels on both sides of the equation. The 2nd level spell requirements for both cleric and wiz for the Mystic Theurge are a bit too much effort considering that I was only really looking for 2nd level wiz spells in the first place. I think I'm trying to juggle too many balls by trying to cheese the extra casting levels into the mix. It'd just pull me too far away from the original concept.

Fochlucan lyrist from the Complete Adventurer could be what you are looking for.
Fireclave
12-17-07, 01:38 AM ...

Why don't you just play a Bard? Your character will be much better off.
Agreed.

To the OP: Even straight bard would be better than all of that multiclassing. You're Bab won't be in the toilet, your caster level would be much higher, you'd have more skill points, you can basically replace Sneak Attack with Arcane Strike, and you won't have so much MAD. You're just not going to get enough synergy out of those classes as is to warrant multiclassing in such a manner.

Also, you won't have to wait so long until you start to come into your own. At 9th level, you'd be a cleric3/rogue3/wizard3. 3rd level abilities and a caster level of 3 aren't going to cut it at 9th level. A 9th level bard will be out healing you, out stealthing you, out buffing you, and out damaging with with spells with Arcane Strike, and be better at both melee and ranged combat.
Beckettvampire
12-17-07, 02:14 AM Theres always the True Necro from Libri Mortis, but its possible but very unlikely to be what you want in that character.
calronmoonflower
12-17-07, 03:54 AM Another option if you don't like bards is the savant from the Dragon Compendium. It has both arcane and at higher level divine casting.

As such they have a good selection of utility spells and can use wands with curing spells. Also they can take Use Magic Device as they have all class skills
WackyOne
12-17-07, 04:45 AM There is also the Arcane Hierophant class, that advances divine and arcane casting - but it's more for wizard/druid multiclassing.
To me too it looks like you want to be a bard. If you want more freedom in your spell choices, you could look at the Prestige Bardit's (in the SRD), or even at the Factotum - it's probably less casty that you'd like, but it's one of the best "jack of all trades". And doesn't require playing madrigals once battle is joined ;)
Jaxgaret
12-17-07, 07:56 PM And doesn't require playing madrigals once battle is joined ;)

Nor does the Bard.
teshen
12-18-07, 03:23 AM I have to agree with the rest... multiclassing is a bad idea.

Stick to two classes or less unless you've really got a way to get the most out of something... one build that would something like you want, although probably not as much, is wizard 5/battle medic 5/mage lord 10. Battle Medic is from Heroes of Battle and Mage Lord is from Lost Empires of Faerun. You'd need the feat arcane domain by level three to make it happen and able learner would help with skills if you are a human or a changeling... you'd have full arcane casting, the ability to spontaneously cast healing spells, and a little more versatility in casting as well as a little sneak attack at higher levels.

Another class is archivist from Heroes of Horror. It's a cleric that is a little more like a arcanist, and you use knowledge skills to give the party bonuses like a bard... it's especially like an arcanist when you scribe acane spells that appear on domain lists.

If you really want to go the dual caster route, as mentioned, arcane hierophant and/or fochlucan lyrist could be good... especially if you prc dance fochlucan lyrist with sublime cord but I don't really enough patience for that kind of prerequisites tinkering...
DerelictDroid
12-18-07, 06:54 AM Since this thread is close to my question, I'll ask it here.

Here's the idea I had. Tell me if it's legal:

Wiz3/cleric3/ Mystic Theurge 1/ Geomancer 1+

The idea is to use MT to 'prime' the Geomancer spell advancement so as to advance in both wiz and cleric, rather than having to choose.

Basically, when I reach L10 Geomancer (ECL of 17), I'd be casting 7th level in both Wiz and Cleric (effective casting level of 14 in each).

This idea could be used with other PrCs that have +1 caster level advancement too.
JulesCARV
12-18-07, 10:27 AM IMHO, the Mystic Theurge/Geomancer that advances "mystic theurge" spellcasting with geomancer levels wouldn't work.

BTW, there's an excerpt from Complete Adventurer (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a&page=2) with the Fochlucan Lyrist. As you can see, it's quite a late-game prestige class: entry is at 11th level at the earliest, and entering at all is quite an effort. It's also pretty much a bard/druid thing, not wizard/cleric.

Okay. Let's think about this from a new perspective: why do you need the wizard levels anyway? Instead, what about adding a bit of versatility to your divine spellcasting class to allow it to emulate the wizardry you want. Perhaps you could play a rogue/cleric (or better yet, ninja/cloistered cleric (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedCoreClass.html#cloistered-cleric)) with the spell domain (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_Spelldomain&alpha=). Anyspell should give you the "arcane" spellcasting you need. Alternatively, you might consider playing a rogue/archivist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3). Archivists don't have any arcane spellcasting, but they have an almost limitless spell list that is likely to include virtually any spell you might want, such as from domain spells, the adept spell list, etc. (What specific wizardly magic do you want, anyway?)
teshen
12-18-07, 11:34 AM . . . Here's the idea I had. Tell me if it's legal:

Wiz3/cleric3/ Mystic Theurge 1/ Geomancer 1+

The idea is to use MT to 'prime' the Geomancer spell advancement so as to advance in both wiz and cleric, rather than having to choose. . .

As JulesCARV said. No.

Geomancer would advance a class or prestige class with an actual spell casting progression... but not something that grants +1 spellcasting class. It would work on something like ur priest or sublime chord that has its own progression, but with geomancer you'd still have to choose which you'd be advancing... the original spell progression from wizard or the spell progression from cleric.

So in your wizard 3/cleric 3/mystic theurge 1/ geomancer 1 you'd have fifth level casting in one and fourth level casting in the other... not five/five and you'd have to continue to advance divine or arcane casting as you go up in levels... not both.
Fireclave
12-18-07, 01:53 PM Geomancer would advance a class or prestige class with an actual spell casting progression... but not something that grants +1 spellcasting class. It would work on something like ur priest or sublime chord that has its own progression, but with geomancer you'd still have to choose which you'd be advancing... the original spell progression from wizard or the spell progression from cleric.
Teshen is correct.

why do you need the wizard levels anyway?
I'll echo this as well. If you tell us exactly what it is you're trying to accomplish with you're spellcasting, we can probable help you achieve exactly that.

Though all you want is a tough, mobile combat medic and party support, try playing a straight druid. You'll get plenty of offensive and defensive spells, stealth mobility with wildshape, and enough combat ability and HP to support the frontliners, and frickin' Natural Spell on top of all that. And if healing is a primary concern, there's a varient in the PH2 that allows you to trade the ability to spontaneously cast Summon Nature's Ally with a type of spontaneous healing effect instead.
DerelictDroid
12-18-07, 03:15 PM IMHO, the Mystic Theurge/Geomancer that advances "mystic theurge" spellcasting with geomancer levels wouldn't work.

BTW, there's an excerpt from Complete Adventurer (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a&page=2) with the Fochlucan Lyrist. As you can see, it's quite a late-game prestige class: entry is at 11th level at the earliest, and entering at all is quite an effort. It's also pretty much a bard/druid thing, not wizard/cleric.

Okay. Let's think about this from a new perspective: why do you need the wizard levels anyway? Instead, what about adding a bit of versatility to your divine spellcasting class to allow it to emulate the wizardry you want. Perhaps you could play a rogue/cleric (or better yet, ninja/cloistered cleric (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedCoreClass.html#cloistered-cleric)) with the spell domain (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_Spelldomain&alpha=). Anyspell should give you the "arcane" spellcasting you need. Alternatively, you might consider playing a rogue/archivist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3). Archivists don't have any arcane spellcasting, but they have an almost limitless spell list that is likely to include virtually any spell you might want, such as from domain spells, the adept spell list, etc. (What specific wizardly magic do you want, anyway?)

Thanks all for the response.

In my case, it was more of a flight of fancy after looking at PrCs for a druid character I play. I thought it'd be cool to have a massive number of spells at one's disposal (not solely the versatility in choice). But remaining a Mystic Theurge to do it didn't appeal to me.
Jaxgaret
12-19-07, 12:09 AM Thanks all for the response.

In my case, it was more of a flight of fancy after looking at PrCs for a druid character I play. I thought it'd be cool to have a massive number of spells at one's disposal (not solely the versatility in choice). But remaining a Mystic Theurge to do it didn't appeal to me.

Druid/Wizards should 100% be looking at Arcane Hierophant. It is so much better than MT.

Still pretty underpowered, but less so.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mad_Jack 12-15-07, 08:36 AM	Just out of curiosity, is there any PrC other than Mystic Theurge that gives full divine and arcane spellcasting? It doesn't quite fit the idea I had for a character, but I haven't been able to think of any others so far...
Fireclave 12-15-07, 08:55 AM	AFAIK, the Mystic Theurge is as good as it gets for progressing both divine and arcane casting at the same time. The Geomancer class in the Complete Divine allows you to progress your arcane or divine each level, but that's probably not what you're looking for. What kind of character are you trying to create?
Mad_Jack 12-15-07, 09:00 AM	Yeah, I didn't really think so... But there's a couple of the splatbooks (including Complete Divine) that I didn't bother to pick up, so I figured I'd ask... I was sort of looking for something with better than just d4 hit points...
blade265 12-15-07, 10:47 AM	Does it have to be divine and arcane together?There's the Eldritch Disciple which is Warlock and Divine, "CLASS FEATURES In addition to improving your existing divine spellcasting and invocation-using abilities, as a divine disciple you gain the ability to channel positive or negative energy for a variety of purposes. In particular, the eldritch spellweave ability allows you to combine the powers of both classes for a potent effect." Complete Mage p53, or there's the Eldritch Theurge, Arcane and Warlock. "CLASS FEATURES As you advance as an eldritch theurge, your skill with both arcane spells and invocations increases until you're able to combine them into a single potent energy." Complete Mage p57
Mad_Jack 12-15-07, 11:52 AM	Well, my original character idea was a cleric/theif, a mobile combat medic, and I was looking to branch out into a little bit of arcane magic as well... So I was trying to figure out how I could dip into something that would bring my casting up a few levels on both sides of the equation. The 2nd level spell requirements for both cleric and wiz for the Mystic Theurge are a bit too much effort considering that I was only really looking for 2nd level wiz spells in the first place. I think I'm trying to juggle too many balls by trying to cheese the extra casting levels into the mix. It'd just pull me too far away from the original concept.
StevenO 12-15-07, 01:53 PM	If needing 2nd level arcane and divine spells is too much for you to consider taking MT you are basically out of luck. I know of one other PrC that offers full arcane and divine casting levels (plus BAB as well) but the Foulchan Lyrist (sorry I butcher the name but it is in CAdv) takes ten levels meeting the prereq and is geared more towards Bard/Druid casting.
FrostWolf 12-15-07, 02:15 PM	races of the wild. Arcane hierphant. Made for wiz/druid builds. Comes with the neat bonus of making your animal companion ALSO your familiar, and arcane casting in druid armors.
Fireclave 12-15-07, 04:11 PM	Well, my original character idea was a cleric/theif, a mobile combat medic, and I was looking to branch out into a little bit of arcane magic as well... So I was trying to figure out how I could dip into something that would bring my casting up a few levels on both sides of the equation. The 2nd level spell requirements for both cleric and wiz for the Mystic Theurge are a bit too much effort considering that I was only really looking for 2nd level wiz spells in the first place. I think I'm trying to juggle too many balls by trying to cheese the extra casting levels into the mix. It'd just pull me too far away from the original concept. You're going to spread yourself too thin. Honestly, you won't get much out of only a few levels of wizard. Especially so if you're adding levels of rogue in there as well. Clerics are already one of the baddest dudes on the block with full casting to boot. Besides, Mystic Thurge isn't all that great anywy. Being that behind casting really hurts until you get fairly high in level, and even then it still hurts. And if you were planning on doing martial combat, the lowered Bab and loss of armor sans twilight mithral chain (due to arcane spell failure) can really hurt. Though, if you really want some arcane spellcasting, try picking up the Spell Domain (SC). It gives you access to three spells that allow you to duplicate other classes' spellcasting: Anyspell, Greater Anyspell, and Limited Wish. Cheese complete. You could also try dropping your cleric levels for wizard levels and take the Arcane Disciple feat (CD), which will allow you to prep domain spells as arcane (though you'll need to not dump Wis to make full use). Choose a god with the Healing Domain, and go into a prestige class like Arcane Trickster or Shadowmage (http://www.wakinglands.com/htm_files/prestige_classes_shadowmage.htm).
Mad_Jack 12-16-07, 05:46 PM	I figured out what I'm going to do with this guy. He'll pretty much be playing the role of a bard. Since he's meant to be a support character, upping the party to seven peeps (including a cleric and wizard), I think I can get away with going cleric/rogue/wiz with two levels of mystic theurge... I rolled decent stats - including a pair of 17's - so I'm going to alternate cleric/rogue until 6th level, then do wizard 3, mystic theurge 2, and then go back to alternating cleric/rogue. My base attack won't be great, but I put one of the 17's into Dex and grabbed weapon finesse even though I'd be mostly ranged combat when not casting spells. It'll still be better than the straight wiz progression, though. At 11th level, I'll end up having 3rd level wiz spells and 3rd level cleric spells, eventually up to 5th level cleric spells. My domains are going to be Healing and either Spell or Magic. I figure this guy's gonna handle some of the in-combat healing to let the real party cleric toss more spells, and play back-up/bodyguard for the party wizard when he's not healing somebody. Outside of combat he'll mostly be tag-teaming with the party's rogue.
Jaxgaret 12-16-07, 06:02 PM	I figured out what I'm going to do with this guy. He'll pretty much be playing the role of a bard. Since he's meant to be a support character, upping the party to seven peeps (including a cleric and wizard), I think I can get away with going cleric/rogue/wiz with two levels of mystic theurge... I rolled decent stats - including a pair of 17's - so I'm going to alternate cleric/rogue until 6th level, then do wizard 3, mystic theurge 2, and then go back to alternating cleric/rogue. My base attack won't be great, but I put one of the 17's into Dex and grabbed weapon finesse even though I'd be mostly ranged combat when not casting spells. It'll still be better than the straight wiz progression, though. At 11th level, I'll end up having 3rd level wiz spells and 3rd level cleric spells, eventually up to 5th level cleric spells. My domains are going to be Healing and either Spell or Magic. I figure this guy's gonna handle some of the in-combat healing to let the real party cleric toss more spells, and play back-up/bodyguard for the party wizard when he's not healing somebody. Outside of combat he'll mostly be tag-teaming with the party's rogue. ... Why don't you just play a Bard? Your character will be much better off.
calronmoonflower 12-16-07, 07:36 PM	Well, my original character idea was a cleric/theif, a mobile combat medic, and I was looking to branch out into a little bit of arcane magic as well... So I was trying to figure out how I could dip into something that would bring my casting up a few levels on both sides of the equation. The 2nd level spell requirements for both cleric and wiz for the Mystic Theurge are a bit too much effort considering that I was only really looking for 2nd level wiz spells in the first place. I think I'm trying to juggle too many balls by trying to cheese the extra casting levels into the mix. It'd just pull me too far away from the original concept. Fochlucan lyrist from the Complete Adventurer could be what you are looking for.
Fireclave 12-17-07, 01:38 AM	... Why don't you just play a Bard? Your character will be much better off. Agreed. To the OP: Even straight bard would be better than all of that multiclassing. You're Bab won't be in the toilet, your caster level would be much higher, you'd have more skill points, you can basically replace Sneak Attack with Arcane Strike, and you won't have so much MAD. You're just not going to get enough synergy out of those classes as is to warrant multiclassing in such a manner. Also, you won't have to wait so long until you start to come into your own. At 9th level, you'd be a cleric3/rogue3/wizard3. 3rd level abilities and a caster level of 3 aren't going to cut it at 9th level. A 9th level bard will be out healing you, out stealthing you, out buffing you, and out damaging with with spells with Arcane Strike, and be better at both melee and ranged combat.
Beckettvampire 12-17-07, 02:14 AM	Theres always the True Necro from Libri Mortis, but its possible but very unlikely to be what you want in that character.
calronmoonflower 12-17-07, 03:54 AM	Another option if you don't like bards is the savant from the Dragon Compendium. It has both arcane and at higher level divine casting. As such they have a good selection of utility spells and can use wands with curing spells. Also they can take Use Magic Device as they have all class skills
WackyOne 12-17-07, 04:45 AM	There is also the Arcane Hierophant class, that advances divine and arcane casting - but it's more for wizard/druid multiclassing. To me too it looks like you want to be a bard. If you want more freedom in your spell choices, you could look at the Prestige Bardit's (in the SRD), or even at the Factotum - it's probably less casty that you'd like, but it's one of the best "jack of all trades". And doesn't require playing madrigals once battle is joined ;)
Jaxgaret 12-17-07, 07:56 PM	And doesn't require playing madrigals once battle is joined ;) Nor does the Bard.
teshen 12-18-07, 03:23 AM	I have to agree with the rest... multiclassing is a bad idea. Stick to two classes or less unless you've really got a way to get the most out of something... one build that would something like you want, although probably not as much, is wizard 5/battle medic 5/mage lord 10. Battle Medic is from Heroes of Battle and Mage Lord is from Lost Empires of Faerun. You'd need the feat arcane domain by level three to make it happen and able learner would help with skills if you are a human or a changeling... you'd have full arcane casting, the ability to spontaneously cast healing spells, and a little more versatility in casting as well as a little sneak attack at higher levels. Another class is archivist from Heroes of Horror. It's a cleric that is a little more like a arcanist, and you use knowledge skills to give the party bonuses like a bard... it's especially like an arcanist when you scribe acane spells that appear on domain lists. If you really want to go the dual caster route, as mentioned, arcane hierophant and/or fochlucan lyrist could be good... especially if you prc dance fochlucan lyrist with sublime cord but I don't really enough patience for that kind of prerequisites tinkering...
DerelictDroid 12-18-07, 06:54 AM	Since this thread is close to my question, I'll ask it here. Here's the idea I had. Tell me if it's legal: Wiz3/cleric3/ Mystic Theurge 1/ Geomancer 1+ The idea is to use MT to 'prime' the Geomancer spell advancement so as to advance in both wiz and cleric, rather than having to choose. Basically, when I reach L10 Geomancer (ECL of 17), I'd be casting 7th level in both Wiz and Cleric (effective casting level of 14 in each). This idea could be used with other PrCs that have +1 caster level advancement too.
JulesCARV 12-18-07, 10:27 AM	IMHO, the Mystic Theurge/Geomancer that advances "mystic theurge" spellcasting with geomancer levels wouldn't work. BTW, there's an excerpt from Complete Adventurer (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a&page=2) with the Fochlucan Lyrist. As you can see, it's quite a late-game prestige class: entry is at 11th level at the earliest, and entering at all is quite an effort. It's also pretty much a bard/druid thing, not wizard/cleric. Okay. Let's think about this from a new perspective: why do you need the wizard levels anyway? Instead, what about adding a bit of versatility to your divine spellcasting class to allow it to emulate the wizardry you want. Perhaps you could play a rogue/cleric (or better yet, ninja/cloistered cleric (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedCoreClass.html#cloistered-cleric)) with the spell domain (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_Spelldomain&alpha=). Anyspell should give you the "arcane" spellcasting you need. Alternatively, you might consider playing a rogue/archivist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3). Archivists don't have any arcane spellcasting, but they have an almost limitless spell list that is likely to include virtually any spell you might want, such as from domain spells, the adept spell list, etc. (What specific wizardly magic do you want, anyway?)
teshen 12-18-07, 11:34 AM	. . . Here's the idea I had. Tell me if it's legal: Wiz3/cleric3/ Mystic Theurge 1/ Geomancer 1+ The idea is to use MT to 'prime' the Geomancer spell advancement so as to advance in both wiz and cleric, rather than having to choose. . . As JulesCARV said. No. Geomancer would advance a class or prestige class with an actual spell casting progression... but not something that grants +1 spellcasting class. It would work on something like ur priest or sublime chord that has its own progression, but with geomancer you'd still have to choose which you'd be advancing... the original spell progression from wizard or the spell progression from cleric. So in your wizard 3/cleric 3/mystic theurge 1/ geomancer 1 you'd have fifth level casting in one and fourth level casting in the other... not five/five and you'd have to continue to advance divine or arcane casting as you go up in levels... not both.
Fireclave 12-18-07, 01:53 PM	Geomancer would advance a class or prestige class with an actual spell casting progression... but not something that grants +1 spellcasting class. It would work on something like ur priest or sublime chord that has its own progression, but with geomancer you'd still have to choose which you'd be advancing... the original spell progression from wizard or the spell progression from cleric. Teshen is correct. why do you need the wizard levels anyway? I'll echo this as well. If you tell us exactly what it is you're trying to accomplish with you're spellcasting, we can probable help you achieve exactly that. Though all you want is a tough, mobile combat medic and party support, try playing a straight druid. You'll get plenty of offensive and defensive spells, stealth mobility with wildshape, and enough combat ability and HP to support the frontliners, and frickin' Natural Spell on top of all that. And if healing is a primary concern, there's a varient in the PH2 that allows you to trade the ability to spontaneously cast Summon Nature's Ally with a type of spontaneous healing effect instead.
DerelictDroid 12-18-07, 03:15 PM	IMHO, the Mystic Theurge/Geomancer that advances "mystic theurge" spellcasting with geomancer levels wouldn't work. BTW, there's an excerpt from Complete Adventurer (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a&page=2) with the Fochlucan Lyrist. As you can see, it's quite a late-game prestige class: entry is at 11th level at the earliest, and entering at all is quite an effort. It's also pretty much a bard/druid thing, not wizard/cleric. Okay. Let's think about this from a new perspective: why do you need the wizard levels anyway? Instead, what about adding a bit of versatility to your divine spellcasting class to allow it to emulate the wizardry you want. Perhaps you could play a rogue/cleric (or better yet, ninja/cloistered cleric (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedCoreClass.html#cloistered-cleric)) with the spell domain (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_Spelldomain&alpha=). Anyspell should give you the "arcane" spellcasting you need. Alternatively, you might consider playing a rogue/archivist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3). Archivists don't have any arcane spellcasting, but they have an almost limitless spell list that is likely to include virtually any spell you might want, such as from domain spells, the adept spell list, etc. (What specific wizardly magic do you want, anyway?) Thanks all for the response. In my case, it was more of a flight of fancy after looking at PrCs for a druid character I play. I thought it'd be cool to have a massive number of spells at one's disposal (not solely the versatility in choice). But remaining a Mystic Theurge to do it didn't appeal to me.
Jaxgaret 12-19-07, 12:09 AM	Thanks all for the response. In my case, it was more of a flight of fancy after looking at PrCs for a druid character I play. I thought it'd be cool to have a massive number of spells at one's disposal (not solely the versatility in choice). But remaining a Mystic Theurge to do it didn't appeal to me. Druid/Wizards should 100% be looking at Arcane Hierophant. It is so much better than MT. Still pretty underpowered, but less so.