Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Quizzit 01-27-08, 12:24 AM	Hey guys, I need a PrC suggestion for an elven wizard (generalist) that fancies himself a "confounder" He preferrs to harass the bad guys and leave the killing to others. We want to stick with the wizard style (no Gish ro whathaveyou), but none of the PrC's in the Complete Arcane or complete Mage seem to fit. Any thoughts?
Ekko 01-27-08, 09:25 AM	From CArc, the Wildmage looks like it might work. Doesn't increase or decrease confunding powers, but Wildmage+Practiced Spellcaster will add +1d6 to your CL, for longer durations and such. If confunding can mean battlefield control, the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil could help with that, as I think you can make it into a hemisphere around your foes. Otherwise, I can't think of a single PrC that would help you. The confunder role seems pretty unsupported.
dman11235 01-27-08, 12:40 PM	I'd like a little more clarification of "confounder". Do you want to use illusions as battle field control? Because that's what I'm seeing. If that is the case, I'd say do a master specialist (illusion) and forget the generalist idea. I mean, if you don't even want to do ANY blasting, why even have evocation (besides: conjuration does blasting as well or better anyway)? After master specialist, going into war weaver (Miniatures Handbook) will help you by letting you do any buffing you want on the party as a move action, leaving you to start battle field control immediately. Also, Archmage is just generally good, though blasters get more mileage than others. Doing an abjuration master specialist can also yield results, with IotSFV thrown in like Ekko said.
Ekko 01-27-08, 03:31 PM	I agree with Dman. Dropping evocation and necromancy (which a "confunder" probably won't use) and specializing in Illusions, Enchantments, or Abjuration would be a good choice. In fact, everything Dman said is good advice.
Pwydde 01-27-08, 10:34 PM	Quizzit, you are truly a good friend to pose this inquiry on my behalf. I'm giving your suggestion about becoming a Wild Mage a great deal of thought. Cy's glee with his profession could easily lead him down that ever more chaotic path. Dman, you asked what Quizzit meant by "Confounder." Cy, my wizard, calls himself a Confounder because he gets joy doing whatever it is that will most annoy his opponent. A well conceived Major Image can make him giggle, to be sure, but perhaps not as much as good old Hideous Laughter. A cleverly placed Grease, an unexpected Lightning Bolt, even Cause Fear against that unfortunate Bugbear Sargeant all remind Cy why he loves his job. Which of these schools should he do without? With the feat Pull Spell from Butt (otherwise known by the awkward name "Alacritous Cogitation"), he can grab the right spell for the moment. Cy simply will not specialize if it means giving up access to any school. He may, however, get wild.
dman11235 01-28-08, 12:22 AM	So, by confounder, you mean so crazy he has no set strategy (the enemy has no idea what he's going to do next)? Okay: Wild mage. It's perfect for that crazy mage. Though I'd say sorcerer may be a better option than wizard for this: he'll have a few spells that he uses fairly randomly, that always work. Wizards do a much better job at planning and having an overall strategy for their spell slots. Sorcerers can afford to be wild.
Ekko 01-28-08, 06:12 PM	Also, especially for illusions and spells that affect more than one target, the Wild Mage boosts your caster level (sort of), making those spells more effective. I'm not sure about the do-ability about this, but Practiced Spellcaster would counteract the -3 CL from the Wild Magic class feature, but let you keep your +1d6 CL. Pull Spell? Butt? I am confused.
LSMFT 01-29-08, 11:51 AM	I know (I think I know) exactly what you mean by confounder. Basically, you do whatever you can to reduce the enemy’s effectiveness. And you keep doing it while the rest of your party cuts them down. I actually really like this sort of role, but I’ve used classes like the warlock, not the wizard. Wizards have fewer spell-slots, and have to prepare each spell specifically for each slot and then use it only once. (Or as many times at it has been prepared.) This tends to lead to a more strategic-thinking type of character. Every spell-slot counts. Not that you can’t do it with a wizard. It is just easier to do it with those classes more able to cast the same spell over and over again. Assuming you don’t want to sacrifice casting-levels (who does?) your best option is to go a route like the aforementioned Wild Mage and others, that increases the effectiveness of your individual spells, like by increasing the caster level. If you are willing to give up some casting, working to add some spontaneity to your repertoire is what I would recommend. Ultimate Magus or Eldritch Theurge. More effective than PrCs though is going to be your spell-selection and a good choice of feats.
The_Shaman 01-29-08, 12:16 PM	Hey guys, I need a PrC suggestion for an elven wizard (generalist) that fancies himself a "confounder" He preferrs to harass the bad guys and leave the killing to others. We want to stick with the wizard style (no Gish ro whathaveyou), but none of the PrC's in the Complete Arcane or complete Mage seem to fit. Any thoughts? Shadowcraft mage can be darned mean in confounding - illusions are a trademark of such mages - but it's gnome only. I would actually say that generalist isn't a bad option if you're an elf and can use the elf wizard sub levels from Races of the Wild, as apart from evocation (which shadow evocation spells emulate quite well) I can't pick a school to drop. Still, even it has its uses sometimes. I'd say that overall it's more a matter of spell selection than PrCs. PrCs tend to offer specialzation, and your idea seems to be quite broad - illusions seem a must, but conjurations, transmutations and a smattering of spells from other schools (even necromancy, via say waves of exhaustion) can feature heavily. Anything that enhances your metamagic can be useful imo - if you're a generalist the Incantatrix certainly can't hurt.
Pwydde 01-30-08, 12:39 PM	I know (I think I know) exactly what you mean by confounder. Basically, you do whatever you can to reduce the enemy’s effectiveness. And you keep doing it while the rest of your party cuts them down. Ah, LSMFT, you nailed it. Problem is that I didn't really know Cy would become a Confounder when I was deciding on a class. I love how characters develop in this game (the best game ever), seemingly with their own volition. Ekko: "Pull Spell from Butt" is just a more colorful name for the CoM feat "Alacritous Cogitation."
Ekko 01-30-08, 02:28 PM	Ah. Conjuration could be another drop-school (like evocation) becasue of Shadow Conjuration. Another feat I would recommend enormously is CAdv's Extraordinary Concentration, that lets you concentrate on spells as a move or swift action, depending on your Concentration check. That'll allow you to keep up 2 spells, keep one up while casting, or keep up to 3 spells going at a time.
Obsidianjaerc 01-30-08, 03:54 PM	Perhaps a non-specialist wizard/beguiler would be the best and simplest way to achieve what it seems you are going for. Multiclassing rather than going into a PrC, see? Maybe your DM would even allow a "rebuild", either a simple OOG respeccing, or a character-shaking IG quest to make this more possible?
LSMFT 01-30-08, 05:05 PM	Ah, LSMFT, you nailed it. Problem is that I didn't really know Cy would become a Confounder when I was deciding on a class. I love how characters develop in this game (the best game ever), seemingly with their own volition. What I would do, considering this is, either A) Use feats to accomplish this goal. You can pick ones that function in an disruptive way, Like Entangling Spell or Explosive Spell, or feats that emphasize the "repetitive nature" of the confounder: Repeat Spell, Quicken Spell to get the same effect twice in the same round, or Chain to do the same annoying thing to multiple targets. Select spells that tend toward debuff in nature: Shatter, Blindness/Deafness, have a lot of fun with Bestow Curse and combine that with area control, Evard's Black Tentacles, Illusions. Your option B) is to multiclass into a more confounding friendly class and work to a "theurge-style" PrC to mesh them together. (Some of these can be very strong.) I don't know your current level, so it may be that multiclassing at this stage of the game won't work. But if you are worried about the lack of "natural organic development" in going this way, don't be. A little tweaking of the flavor could be fine. Like, instead of looking at taking a level of sorcerer as "picking a new career" or something, you could sort of say that he became so in tune with specific spells by virtue of casting them repetitively that he developed the ability to spontaneously cast some of them. Also keep in mind, you like the way characters just sort of grow into what they are without your planning, so Cy might just grow into something else besides a confounder. Wizards have the flexibility to do that.
Red_Wizards_Rock 02-01-08, 11:02 AM	From CArc, the Wildmage looks like it might work. Doesn't increase or decrease confunding powers, but Wildmage+Practiced Spellcaster will add +1d6 to your CL, for longer durations and such. No it won't, because your caster lvl still follows your total HD you just have a class feature that reduces your level by 3.
dman11235 02-01-08, 11:24 AM	According to the FAQ, you can apply the bonus from Practiced Caster at whichever time would be more beneficial. It then goes on to state an example for the wildmage, and has it at (CL-3+1d6)+4, so that you apply the PC feat after all of the calculations for wildmage. I wonder if they meant the -3 and +1d6 from wildmage to be one step, but I don't see it that way as they are two different abilities. I don't quite know what you're saying though, Red. The class feature doesn't reduce your level by 3, it reduces your CL by three, which can theoretically be brought up by practiced caster to a max of your HD (which has not changed).