PrC that grants Rage [Archive] - Wizards Community

PrC that grants Rage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Orenmir
06-20-07, 03:36 PM Are there any PrCs that grant the ability to rage? Let me know what book, prereqs, and other details.

I know I could just take a dip in Barbarian; I just want to know what other options there are (and if they're better).

Thanks
SheerAscended
06-20-07, 05:53 PM The Frenzied Berserker out of Complete Warrior gives you frenzy, which is close.

Why do you want rage exactly?
Darth Sephiroth
06-20-07, 06:16 PM If you're an Orc (or Half-Orc) the Orc Paragon class grants it (Half-Orcs need to go through both the Half-Orc and Orc Paragon classes to do it but it does give you the ability to Rage)
Orenmir
06-20-07, 11:32 PM The Frenzied Berserker out of Complete Warrior gives you frenzy, which is close.

HA! I've already had one party member tell me if I took that PrC and started attacking him by accident, that's he'd kill me. And, I'd rather not mess with a half-Tiefling Ninja Assassin with 3 levels on me.

Why do you want rage exactly?

Same reason anybody wants rage. +4 to Str, +4 to Con... isn't there a save bonus in there too? I guess that would be fortitude.

Just looking for a fun, quick way to buff up my Fighter -- after I'm done with Occult Slayer, of course. Or, maybe during.
The_Shaman
06-21-07, 02:41 AM Nope, it's will. Although the +4 con also gives a bonus to fort saves. And btw, if you have uncanny dodge, your ninja friend might get in trouble if he tries to pull anything on you. So let's see...

The OA Singh Rager gives you rage, but you have to be Lawful (!) to qualify for it. Another option is the 3.0 Drunken Master (did that PrC ever get nerfed in 3.5), which btw then also gave what could today be interpreted as flurry progression.

Finally, if you are an elf or half-elf you can get the Wildrunner PrC from Races of the Wild, and it gives you a rage-like Frenzy (+6 dex, +2 con, bite attack) iirc. There should be a compendium on those fora with every class that gave you a certain feature, but I'm not sure where it is... somewhere on the charop boards.
MikeN
06-21-07, 02:43 AM Half-Orc Paragon level 2.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#halfOrcParagon
Orenmir
06-21-07, 10:22 AM Thanks for the suggestions.

My race is half-frost giant and alignment is neutral, so I'll probably just wind up taking a 1st level dip into Barbarian. My Dex is only 13, so uncanny dodge doesn't seem quite worth a level progression.
The_Shaman
06-21-07, 10:36 AM Well, in this case I think you could use a level or two of barb. BTW, in this case the UD is more for foiling sneak attacks than for getting that +1 to ac, imo.
madbliza
06-21-07, 10:42 AM Well fortunately for you, the Frenzy Bezerker has the Die Hard feature. So let's hope that assassin can survive the rounds till your Frenzy wears off.

Which I seriously doubt.
selenia
06-21-07, 12:10 PM I would just go with one or two levels barbarian, and take the alternative class ability from complete champion to get pounce to. The second level gives uncanny dodge which is also pretty nice.
Orenmir
06-21-07, 12:43 PM UD is more for foiling sneak attacks than for getting that +1 to ac, imo.

Aren't you speaking of Improved Uncanny Dodge? Barbarian doesn't grant that until 5th level. Uncanny Dodge only retains Dex to AC when caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker.

Plus, even with Improved Uncanny Dodage, the Rogue only needs to be 4 levels higher than the Barbarian level to negate it.

Uncanny Dodge still seems uselss to me (with a Dex mod of +1).
The_Shaman
06-21-07, 05:01 PM As I read it, uncanny dodge protects you from sneak attacks from an invisible attacker or in the beginning of combat, leaving only flanking. Which the ninja can't do anyway ;)
Orenmir
06-21-07, 05:13 PM From the SRD (which I'm assuming is accurate):

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 2nd level, a barbarian retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If a barbarian already has uncanny dodge from a different class, he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 5th level and higher, a barbarian can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the barbarian by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has barbarian levels. If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum level a rogue must be to flank the character.

The Barbarian isn't protected from sneak attacks with UD, he only gets to retain his Dex bonus. Let me know if I'm reading it wrong.
The_Shaman
06-21-07, 05:23 PM "If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.

The rogue’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and it increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.
"

It is a bit of chicken and egg, but you can definitely argue that if the barb is not denied dex bonus to AC, he can not be sneak attacked outside of flanking. IUD mentions that it applies to flanking situations, as you quoted.
Breetai
06-21-07, 05:56 PM From the SRD (which I'm assuming is accurate):
The Barbarian isn't protected from sneak attacks with UD, he only gets to retain his Dex bonus. Let me know if I'm reading it wrong.

Well Yes your sort of reading it wrong. It just dosn't specifically say you are protected from sneak attacks but that's what the result of the abilities do.

By retainin his Dex bonus From normal uncanny dodge Sneak attacks that require denied dex bonus get denied and improved uncanny dodge denies flanking bonus negating the sneak attack again.
Orenmir
06-21-07, 06:01 PM Got it!

I guess I was more misunderstanding the Sneak Attack rules than the Uncanny Dodge rules.

Thanks for the help.

Through the 9 levels my PC has experienced, he has never been the target of a sneak attack! Maybe a fault of my DMs. Regardless, that's why I'm still weary of taking a second level of Barbarian.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Orenmir 06-20-07, 03:36 PM	Are there any PrCs that grant the ability to rage? Let me know what book, prereqs, and other details. I know I could just take a dip in Barbarian; I just want to know what other options there are (and if they're better). Thanks
SheerAscended 06-20-07, 05:53 PM	The Frenzied Berserker out of Complete Warrior gives you frenzy, which is close. Why do you want rage exactly?
Darth Sephiroth 06-20-07, 06:16 PM	If you're an Orc (or Half-Orc) the Orc Paragon class grants it (Half-Orcs need to go through both the Half-Orc and Orc Paragon classes to do it but it does give you the ability to Rage)
Orenmir 06-20-07, 11:32 PM	The Frenzied Berserker out of Complete Warrior gives you frenzy, which is close. HA! I've already had one party member tell me if I took that PrC and started attacking him by accident, that's he'd kill me. And, I'd rather not mess with a half-Tiefling Ninja Assassin with 3 levels on me. Why do you want rage exactly? Same reason anybody wants rage. +4 to Str, +4 to Con... isn't there a save bonus in there too? I guess that would be fortitude. Just looking for a fun, quick way to buff up my Fighter -- after I'm done with Occult Slayer, of course. Or, maybe during.
The_Shaman 06-21-07, 02:41 AM	Nope, it's will. Although the +4 con also gives a bonus to fort saves. And btw, if you have uncanny dodge, your ninja friend might get in trouble if he tries to pull anything on you. So let's see... The OA Singh Rager gives you rage, but you have to be Lawful (!) to qualify for it. Another option is the 3.0 Drunken Master (did that PrC ever get nerfed in 3.5), which btw then also gave what could today be interpreted as flurry progression. Finally, if you are an elf or half-elf you can get the Wildrunner PrC from Races of the Wild, and it gives you a rage-like Frenzy (+6 dex, +2 con, bite attack) iirc. There should be a compendium on those fora with every class that gave you a certain feature, but I'm not sure where it is... somewhere on the charop boards.
MikeN 06-21-07, 02:43 AM	Half-Orc Paragon level 2. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#halfOrcParagon
Orenmir 06-21-07, 10:22 AM	Thanks for the suggestions. My race is half-frost giant and alignment is neutral, so I'll probably just wind up taking a 1st level dip into Barbarian. My Dex is only 13, so uncanny dodge doesn't seem quite worth a level progression.
The_Shaman 06-21-07, 10:36 AM	Well, in this case I think you could use a level or two of barb. BTW, in this case the UD is more for foiling sneak attacks than for getting that +1 to ac, imo.
madbliza 06-21-07, 10:42 AM	Well fortunately for you, the Frenzy Bezerker has the Die Hard feature. So let's hope that assassin can survive the rounds till your Frenzy wears off. Which I seriously doubt.
selenia 06-21-07, 12:10 PM	I would just go with one or two levels barbarian, and take the alternative class ability from complete champion to get pounce to. The second level gives uncanny dodge which is also pretty nice.
Orenmir 06-21-07, 12:43 PM	UD is more for foiling sneak attacks than for getting that +1 to ac, imo. Aren't you speaking of Improved Uncanny Dodge? Barbarian doesn't grant that until 5th level. Uncanny Dodge only retains Dex to AC when caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. Plus, even with Improved Uncanny Dodage, the Rogue only needs to be 4 levels higher than the Barbarian level to negate it. Uncanny Dodge still seems uselss to me (with a Dex mod of +1).
The_Shaman 06-21-07, 05:01 PM	As I read it, uncanny dodge protects you from sneak attacks from an invisible attacker or in the beginning of combat, leaving only flanking. Which the ninja can't do anyway ;)
Orenmir 06-21-07, 05:13 PM	From the SRD (which I'm assuming is accurate): Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 2nd level, a barbarian retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If a barbarian already has uncanny dodge from a different class, he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead. Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 5th level and higher, a barbarian can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the barbarian by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has barbarian levels. If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum level a rogue must be to flank the character. The Barbarian isn't protected from sneak attacks with UD, he only gets to retain his Dex bonus. Let me know if I'm reading it wrong.
The_Shaman 06-21-07, 05:23 PM	"If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage. The rogue’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and it increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. " It is a bit of chicken and egg, but you can definitely argue that if the barb is not denied dex bonus to AC, he can not be sneak attacked outside of flanking. IUD mentions that it applies to flanking situations, as you quoted.
Breetai 06-21-07, 05:56 PM	From the SRD (which I'm assuming is accurate): The Barbarian isn't protected from sneak attacks with UD, he only gets to retain his Dex bonus. Let me know if I'm reading it wrong. Well Yes your sort of reading it wrong. It just dosn't specifically say you are protected from sneak attacks but that's what the result of the abilities do. By retainin his Dex bonus From normal uncanny dodge Sneak attacks that require denied dex bonus get denied and improved uncanny dodge denies flanking bonus negating the sneak attack again.
Orenmir 06-21-07, 06:01 PM	Got it! I guess I was more misunderstanding the Sneak Attack rules than the Uncanny Dodge rules. Thanks for the help. Through the 9 levels my PC has experienced, he has never been the target of a sneak attack! Maybe a fault of my DMs. Regardless, that's why I'm still weary of taking a second level of Barbarian.