Prestige Class Idea -- Steal Heart [Archive] - Wizards Community

Prestige Class Idea -- Steal Heart [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
navar100
10-24-07, 02:12 AM Steel Heart

HD d10

Entry Requirements
Skills: Balance 13 ranks
Feats: Blade Meditation (Iron Heart), Iron Heart Aura, Rapid Assault, Stormguard Warrior
Maneuvers: You must know at least one more Iron Heart maneuver than any other individual discipline and at least as many Iron Heart stances than any other individual discipline’s stances.

Level BAB For Ref Wil Man. Kn. Man. Read. Special
1 +1 +2 +0 +0 1 0 Weapon Focus, Blade Walk
2 +2 +3 +0 +0 0 0 Weapon Specialization
3 +3 +3 +1 +1 1 0 One More Try
4 +4 +4 +1 +1 0 0 Improved Critical
5 +5 +4 +1 +1 1 1 Greater Weapon Focus, I Don’t Miss
6 +6 +5 +2 +2 0 0 Greater Weapon Specialization
7 +7 +5 +2 +2 1 0 I Can’t Miss
8 +8 +6 +2 +2 0 0 Blade Dance
9 +9 +6 +3 +3 1 0 I Never Miss
10 +10 +7 +3 +3 0 1 Blade Incarnate

Skill Points: 4 + Int modifier
Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Martial Lore, Profession, Search, Spot, Survival, Tumble

Weapons and Armor: A Steal Heart gains no additional proficiency in armor. He gains proficiency in all preferred weapons of Iron Heart if he does not already have it. A Steel Heart cannot wield the bastard sword or dwarven waraxe in one hand proficiently unless he has the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat for it or is a dwarf for the dwarven waraxe. A Steel Heart wanting to use a two-bladed sword as a double weapon still needs to take the Two-Weapon Fighting feat to use it at the lesser penalty.

Maneuvers Known: Each odd-numbered level you gain a new maneuver from the Iron Heart discipline. At every even level you may exchange any maneuver you know for any Iron Heart maneuver. You must meet normal prerequisites. Steel Heart levels stack with your martial adept levels for determining the highest level maneuver you may learn, including for the Blade Walk ability.

Maneuvers Readied: At levels 5 and 10 you may ready an additional maneuver provided it is from Iron Heart.

Weapon Focus: You gain the benefit of Weapon Focus for the preferred weapons of the Iron Heart discipline.

Blade Walk: On any odd Steal Heart level, you may choose to exchange any stance that you know, regardless of its discipline, but only if you exchange it with a stance from the Iron Heart discipline.

Weapon Specialization: You gain the Weapon Specialization feat for the preferred weapons of Iron Heart.

One More Try: When you take the full attack action while wielding a preferred weapon of Iron Heart, you get an extra attack at -5 of your lowest BAB. For example, if your BAB is +16/+11/+6/+1, you get a fifth attack at -4.

Improved Critical: You gain the Improved Critical feat for the preferred weapons of Iron Heart.

Greater Weapon Focus: You gain the Greater Weapon Focus feat for the preferred weapons of Iron Heart.

I Don’t Miss: Once per encounter if you roll a natural 1 when attacking your opponent with a preferred weapon of Iron Heart but would have hit your opponent if not for the auto-miss rule, you actually do hit your opponent. You do not have to use this ability on the first natural 1 you roll in an encounter.

Greater Weapon Specialization: You gain the Greater Weapon Specialization feat for the preferred weapons of Iron Heart.

I Can’t Miss: If you miss your opponent because of concealment when attacking with a preferred weapon of Iron Heart, you may roll again to see if you do actually hit. If you are entitled to a reroll from another source, such as the Blind-Fight feat, you may use this ability if that reroll still had you miss.

Blade Dance: When you enter any Iron Heart stance, you may benefit from any or all Iron Heart stances you know. You do not have to benefit from all at once, but once you first go into a stance and choose which ones to gain their benefit, it takes a swift action to add, remove, or change the Iron Heart stances you want to benefit. If you enter a stance from another discipline, you lose the benefits of these Iron Heart stances.

I Never Miss: Rolling a natural 1 on any attack roll with a preferred weapon of Iron Heart is no longer an auto-miss.

Blade Incarnate: When you score a critical hit with a preferred weapon of Iron Heart, the multiplier is increased by one. In addition, when attacking a creature immune to critical hits, roll to confirm the crit anyway. If confirmed, you both make opposing Martial Lore checks. If you win, you score a critical hit. When you wield a preferred weapon of Iron Heart, it cannot be sundered or disarmed. You also gain a +4 bonus to any saving throw your weapon must make and does not auto-fail on a natural 1, though a natural 1 can still fail if you don’t make the DC.
Blue Paladin
10-24-07, 01:22 PM Steel HeartOkay, that answers a lot. Steel as in upgraded Iron, gotcha. Not my first reaction, which was "Ooh, FFTactics Thief!"

There's still lots of instances of "steal" in there.

Weapon Focus: You gain the benefit of Weapon Focus for the preferred weapons of the Iron Heart discipline.This... is a lot. I'm thinking most people will qualify for this PrC via Warblade. With Weapon Aptitude, this class gives away four feats. Twenty, really, if you include all the later ones (Wpn Spec, Imp Crit, GWF etc.). In my opinion, it'd be better to copy the level 1 Swordsage ability (restrict it to IH only), giving the virtual version of Weapon Focus instead of the actual feats; you can copy the same wording for Wpn Spec, Imp Crit, etc.

Blade Walk: On any odd Steal Heart level, you may choose to exchange any stance that you know, regardless of its discipline, but only if you exchange it with a stance from the Iron Heart discipline.This is new; no one has ever had the ability to lose a stance for another. The restriction on IH is good, just change "with a stance" to "for a stance" and you close a potential loophole.

Blade Dance: When you enter any Iron Heart stance, you may benefit from any or all Iron Heart stances you know. You do not have to benefit from all at once, but once you first go into a stance and choose which ones to gain their benefit, it takes a swift action to add, remove, or change the Iron Heart stances you want to benefit. If you enter a stance from another discipline, you lose the benefits of these Iron Heart stances.This is, how do the kids say it, OV3R 9000!!!1 It is far more powerful than the Dual Stance (level 20 capstone!) ability.
Ultima0071
10-24-07, 01:56 PM It would help if you added fluff. At least clean up your post a bit :)
RobbyPants
10-24-07, 02:46 PM Okay, that answers a lot. Steel as in upgraded Iron, gotcha. Not my first reaction, which was "Ooh, FFTactics Thief!"
When I first read this, that's what I thought too, until I saw the Iron Heart Surge. I was picturing a PrC based around that Clutch of Orcus spell.
navar100
10-25-07, 02:16 AM This... is a lot. I'm thinking most people will qualify for this PrC via Warblade. With Weapon Aptitude, this class gives away four feats. Twenty, really, if you include all the later ones (Wpn Spec, Imp Crit, GWF etc.). In my opinion, it'd be better to copy the level 1 Swordsage ability (restrict it to IH only), giving the virtual version of Weapon Focus instead of the actual feats; you can copy the same wording for Wpn Spec, Imp Crit, etc.

Ah, I hadn't thought about the Aptitude ability of warblade. The weapon focus for the preferred weapons of the intended discipline is going to be a staple for all my specialized discipline prestige classes, but I do want it to be only for the preferred weapons. The specialization and improved critical are only going to appear for Steel Heart since the Iron Heart discipline stresses weapon use. Whatever wording is necessary to stress they are only for the preferred weapons of Iron Heart will do. A Warblade/Steel Heart should not be able to apply his Aptitude ability for this; I agree. The swordsage way is a good idea. It's too late for my upcoming Setting Sun prestige class, but I'll work on fixing the wording for the later ones.

This is new; no one has ever had the ability to lose a stance for another. The restriction on IH is good, just change "with a stance" to "for a stance" and you close a potential loophole.

It's on purpose I gave this ability to these prestige classes. These prestige classes are focusing on one discipline. This is their treat. Note that these specialized prestige classes do not gain new stances. They can only upgrade from what they already had (usually 3 before entering the prestige class) or spent a feat on Martial Stance. At best, at 20th level the character is 10 martial adept/10 specialized prestige for all such specialized prestige classes I'm making, by purpose design. Unless a feat was spent, they'll only ever have 3 stances unless the prestige class gives them one, such as Devoted Soul does.

This is, how do the kids say it, OV3R 9000!!!1 It is far more powerful than the Dual Stance (level 20 capstone!) ability.

Acknowledged. The 20th level warblade has the advantage of being able to diversify his stances and maneuvers. These specialized prestige classes focus solely on one discipline, Iron Heart in this Steel Heart case. This or a similar ability is another staple for these prestige classes. Desert Salamander has this, but Desert Wind only has 3 stances. Adamantine Mind is just for two stances. Devoted Spirit as too many stances to allow this for Devoted Soul so Devoted soul can combine one Devoted Spirit stance with the new stance given in the prestige class.

These multi-stance abilities come into play at 18th character level. I'll admit it's a bit on the powerful side of "balance", but I'm ok with that. Unless the character spent a feat, the Steel Heart has only 3 stances and they all must be from Iron Heart. A 20th level warblade has 4 stances from which to choose taken from any of his disciplines. Is that too good a trade? I don't know. If the warblade also spent a feat for another stance, he could have taken it from any discipline (need to qualify of course). It's a trade between specialization and variety.

If given "it's fine" but should be moved to 10th level prestige class, I'm ok with that. I'll even allow level 8 of the prestige class to be a dead level for a special ability to help pay for it.
navar100
10-26-07, 01:51 AM I've been thinking it over, and I think the warblade's Aptitude really won't matter in terms of Steel Heart getting specialization and improved critical. A warblade can take (greater) weapon specialization or improved critical and use them for any weapon already. The only difference Steel Heart gives is that they are bonus feats. It is on purpose to give those feats as a reflection on the specialization focus of Iron Heart. That discipline is primarily about use of weapons.

These discipline specialized prestige class ideas are supposed to make use of their respective discipline stronger at the cost of forgoing the use of any other discipline, or at least not learning any more than from before going into the prestige class. Iron Heart is a warblade only class discipline, so it makes sense the warblade has the best synergy with Steel Heart, though fighters will love it too. Fighter candidates should multi-class into at least one level of warblade first so that they have a method of recovering maneuvers, but getting 13 ranks in Balance will be tough. Versatile feat from Rokugan or Cosmopolitan feat from Forgotten Realms will help.
Ultima0071
10-26-07, 10:33 AM For Blade Incarnate (ability):

Confirming a critical hit against an emeny imune to them is impossible. The most seen creature, undead, have no vital points or vital fluids. Striking a vital area, like neer the heart, hurts a human more. But, if you have no vital points, you are impossible to kill. Also, undead (and other enemies imune to critical hits) can survive without most of their body parts. I'd change the confirming a critical to this:

Blade Incarnate: When you score a critical hit with a preferred weapon of Iron Heart, the multiplier is increased by one. In addition, when you have failed a confirmation check for a critical hit, you can roll again. You can only roll again once per day per 5 Steel Heart levels. When you wield a preferred weapon of Iron Heart, it cannot be sundered or disarmed. You also gain a +4 bonus to any saving throw your weapon must make and does not auto-fail on a natural 1, though a natural 1 can still fail if you don’t make the DC.
navar100
10-27-07, 01:20 AM That's the flavor text of why such creatures are immune to critical hits. The idea is for Steel Hearts to be able to deal critical hits against creatures usually immune to them. In this case it's not about hitting vital organs or body parts but just raw physical damage. One can power attack an undead or elemental all he likes. It's a similar idea of extra damage by a different means.

If it helps, you can add the critical hit is only for the hit point damage determination and not any other special occurance that would result from a critical hit, such as if wielding a vorpal weapon. An elemental losing its "head" still wouldn't mean anything; it just takes the extra damage just as it would from a barbarian using power attack.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
navar100 10-24-07, 02:12 AM	Steel Heart HD d10 Entry Requirements Skills: Balance 13 ranks Feats: Blade Meditation (Iron Heart), Iron Heart Aura, Rapid Assault, Stormguard Warrior Maneuvers: You must know at least one more Iron Heart maneuver than any other individual discipline and at least as many Iron Heart stances than any other individual discipline’s stances. Level BAB For Ref Wil Man. Kn. Man. Read. Special 1 +1 +2 +0 +0 1 0 Weapon Focus, Blade Walk 2 +2 +3 +0 +0 0 0 Weapon Specialization 3 +3 +3 +1 +1 1 0 One More Try 4 +4 +4 +1 +1 0 0 Improved Critical 5 +5 +4 +1 +1 1 1 Greater Weapon Focus, I Don’t Miss 6 +6 +5 +2 +2 0 0 Greater Weapon Specialization 7 +7 +5 +2 +2 1 0 I Can’t Miss 8 +8 +6 +2 +2 0 0 Blade Dance 9 +9 +6 +3 +3 1 0 I Never Miss 10 +10 +7 +3 +3 0 1 Blade Incarnate Skill Points: 4 + Int modifier Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Martial Lore, Profession, Search, Spot, Survival, Tumble Weapons and Armor: A Steal Heart gains no additional proficiency in armor. He gains proficiency in all preferred weapons of Iron Heart if he does not already have it. A Steel Heart cannot wield the bastard sword or dwarven waraxe in one hand proficiently unless he has the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat for it or is a dwarf for the dwarven waraxe. A Steel Heart wanting to use a two-bladed sword as a double weapon still needs to take the Two-Weapon Fighting feat to use it at the lesser penalty. Maneuvers Known: Each odd-numbered level you gain a new maneuver from the Iron Heart discipline. At every even level you may exchange any maneuver you know for any Iron Heart maneuver. You must meet normal prerequisites. Steel Heart levels stack with your martial adept levels for determining the highest level maneuver you may learn, including for the Blade Walk ability. Maneuvers Readied: At levels 5 and 10 you may ready an additional maneuver provided it is from Iron Heart. Weapon Focus: You gain the benefit of Weapon Focus for the preferred weapons of the Iron Heart discipline. Blade Walk: On any odd Steal Heart level, you may choose to exchange any stance that you know, regardless of its discipline, but only if you exchange it with a stance from the Iron Heart discipline. Weapon Specialization: You gain the Weapon Specialization feat for the preferred weapons of Iron Heart. One More Try: When you take the full attack action while wielding a preferred weapon of Iron Heart, you get an extra attack at -5 of your lowest BAB. For example, if your BAB is +16/+11/+6/+1, you get a fifth attack at -4. Improved Critical: You gain the Improved Critical feat for the preferred weapons of Iron Heart. Greater Weapon Focus: You gain the Greater Weapon Focus feat for the preferred weapons of Iron Heart. I Don’t Miss: Once per encounter if you roll a natural 1 when attacking your opponent with a preferred weapon of Iron Heart but would have hit your opponent if not for the auto-miss rule, you actually do hit your opponent. You do not have to use this ability on the first natural 1 you roll in an encounter. Greater Weapon Specialization: You gain the Greater Weapon Specialization feat for the preferred weapons of Iron Heart. I Can’t Miss: If you miss your opponent because of concealment when attacking with a preferred weapon of Iron Heart, you may roll again to see if you do actually hit. If you are entitled to a reroll from another source, such as the Blind-Fight feat, you may use this ability if that reroll still had you miss. Blade Dance: When you enter any Iron Heart stance, you may benefit from any or all Iron Heart stances you know. You do not have to benefit from all at once, but once you first go into a stance and choose which ones to gain their benefit, it takes a swift action to add, remove, or change the Iron Heart stances you want to benefit. If you enter a stance from another discipline, you lose the benefits of these Iron Heart stances. I Never Miss: Rolling a natural 1 on any attack roll with a preferred weapon of Iron Heart is no longer an auto-miss. Blade Incarnate: When you score a critical hit with a preferred weapon of Iron Heart, the multiplier is increased by one. In addition, when attacking a creature immune to critical hits, roll to confirm the crit anyway. If confirmed, you both make opposing Martial Lore checks. If you win, you score a critical hit. When you wield a preferred weapon of Iron Heart, it cannot be sundered or disarmed. You also gain a +4 bonus to any saving throw your weapon must make and does not auto-fail on a natural 1, though a natural 1 can still fail if you don’t make the DC.
Blue Paladin 10-24-07, 01:22 PM	Steel HeartOkay, that answers a lot. Steel as in upgraded Iron, gotcha. Not my first reaction, which was "Ooh, FFTactics Thief!" There's still lots of instances of "steal" in there. Weapon Focus: You gain the benefit of Weapon Focus for the preferred weapons of the Iron Heart discipline.This... is a lot. I'm thinking most people will qualify for this PrC via Warblade. With Weapon Aptitude, this class gives away four feats. Twenty, really, if you include all the later ones (Wpn Spec, Imp Crit, GWF etc.). In my opinion, it'd be better to copy the level 1 Swordsage ability (restrict it to IH only), giving the virtual version of Weapon Focus instead of the actual feats; you can copy the same wording for Wpn Spec, Imp Crit, etc. Blade Walk: On any odd Steal Heart level, you may choose to exchange any stance that you know, regardless of its discipline, but only if you exchange it with a stance from the Iron Heart discipline.This is new; no one has ever had the ability to lose a stance for another. The restriction on IH is good, just change "with a stance" to "for a stance" and you close a potential loophole. Blade Dance: When you enter any Iron Heart stance, you may benefit from any or all Iron Heart stances you know. You do not have to benefit from all at once, but once you first go into a stance and choose which ones to gain their benefit, it takes a swift action to add, remove, or change the Iron Heart stances you want to benefit. If you enter a stance from another discipline, you lose the benefits of these Iron Heart stances.This is, how do the kids say it, OV3R 9000!!!1 It is far more powerful than the Dual Stance (level 20 capstone!) ability.
Ultima0071 10-24-07, 01:56 PM	It would help if you added fluff. At least clean up your post a bit :)
RobbyPants 10-24-07, 02:46 PM	Okay, that answers a lot. Steel as in upgraded Iron, gotcha. Not my first reaction, which was "Ooh, FFTactics Thief!" When I first read this, that's what I thought too, until I saw the Iron Heart Surge. I was picturing a PrC based around that Clutch of Orcus spell.
navar100 10-25-07, 02:16 AM	This... is a lot. I'm thinking most people will qualify for this PrC via Warblade. With Weapon Aptitude, this class gives away four feats. Twenty, really, if you include all the later ones (Wpn Spec, Imp Crit, GWF etc.). In my opinion, it'd be better to copy the level 1 Swordsage ability (restrict it to IH only), giving the virtual version of Weapon Focus instead of the actual feats; you can copy the same wording for Wpn Spec, Imp Crit, etc. Ah, I hadn't thought about the Aptitude ability of warblade. The weapon focus for the preferred weapons of the intended discipline is going to be a staple for all my specialized discipline prestige classes, but I do want it to be only for the preferred weapons. The specialization and improved critical are only going to appear for Steel Heart since the Iron Heart discipline stresses weapon use. Whatever wording is necessary to stress they are only for the preferred weapons of Iron Heart will do. A Warblade/Steel Heart should not be able to apply his Aptitude ability for this; I agree. The swordsage way is a good idea. It's too late for my upcoming Setting Sun prestige class, but I'll work on fixing the wording for the later ones. This is new; no one has ever had the ability to lose a stance for another. The restriction on IH is good, just change "with a stance" to "for a stance" and you close a potential loophole. It's on purpose I gave this ability to these prestige classes. These prestige classes are focusing on one discipline. This is their treat. Note that these specialized prestige classes do not gain new stances. They can only upgrade from what they already had (usually 3 before entering the prestige class) or spent a feat on Martial Stance. At best, at 20th level the character is 10 martial adept/10 specialized prestige for all such specialized prestige classes I'm making, by purpose design. Unless a feat was spent, they'll only ever have 3 stances unless the prestige class gives them one, such as Devoted Soul does. This is, how do the kids say it, OV3R 9000!!!1 It is far more powerful than the Dual Stance (level 20 capstone!) ability. Acknowledged. The 20th level warblade has the advantage of being able to diversify his stances and maneuvers. These specialized prestige classes focus solely on one discipline, Iron Heart in this Steel Heart case. This or a similar ability is another staple for these prestige classes. Desert Salamander has this, but Desert Wind only has 3 stances. Adamantine Mind is just for two stances. Devoted Spirit as too many stances to allow this for Devoted Soul so Devoted soul can combine one Devoted Spirit stance with the new stance given in the prestige class. These multi-stance abilities come into play at 18th character level. I'll admit it's a bit on the powerful side of "balance", but I'm ok with that. Unless the character spent a feat, the Steel Heart has only 3 stances and they all must be from Iron Heart. A 20th level warblade has 4 stances from which to choose taken from any of his disciplines. Is that too good a trade? I don't know. If the warblade also spent a feat for another stance, he could have taken it from any discipline (need to qualify of course). It's a trade between specialization and variety. If given "it's fine" but should be moved to 10th level prestige class, I'm ok with that. I'll even allow level 8 of the prestige class to be a dead level for a special ability to help pay for it.
navar100 10-26-07, 01:51 AM	I've been thinking it over, and I think the warblade's Aptitude really won't matter in terms of Steel Heart getting specialization and improved critical. A warblade can take (greater) weapon specialization or improved critical and use them for any weapon already. The only difference Steel Heart gives is that they are bonus feats. It is on purpose to give those feats as a reflection on the specialization focus of Iron Heart. That discipline is primarily about use of weapons. These discipline specialized prestige class ideas are supposed to make use of their respective discipline stronger at the cost of forgoing the use of any other discipline, or at least not learning any more than from before going into the prestige class. Iron Heart is a warblade only class discipline, so it makes sense the warblade has the best synergy with Steel Heart, though fighters will love it too. Fighter candidates should multi-class into at least one level of warblade first so that they have a method of recovering maneuvers, but getting 13 ranks in Balance will be tough. Versatile feat from Rokugan or Cosmopolitan feat from Forgotten Realms will help.
Ultima0071 10-26-07, 10:33 AM	For Blade Incarnate (ability): Confirming a critical hit against an emeny imune to them is impossible. The most seen creature, undead, have no vital points or vital fluids. Striking a vital area, like neer the heart, hurts a human more. But, if you have no vital points, you are impossible to kill. Also, undead (and other enemies imune to critical hits) can survive without most of their body parts. I'd change the confirming a critical to this: Blade Incarnate: When you score a critical hit with a preferred weapon of Iron Heart, the multiplier is increased by one. In addition, when you have failed a confirmation check for a critical hit, you can roll again. You can only roll again once per day per 5 Steel Heart levels. When you wield a preferred weapon of Iron Heart, it cannot be sundered or disarmed. You also gain a +4 bonus to any saving throw your weapon must make and does not auto-fail on a natural 1, though a natural 1 can still fail if you don’t make the DC.
navar100 10-27-07, 01:20 AM	That's the flavor text of why such creatures are immune to critical hits. The idea is for Steel Hearts to be able to deal critical hits against creatures usually immune to them. In this case it's not about hitting vital organs or body parts but just raw physical damage. One can power attack an undead or elemental all he likes. It's a similar idea of extra damage by a different means. If it helps, you can add the critical hit is only for the hit point damage determination and not any other special occurance that would result from a critical hit, such as if wielding a vorpal weapon. An elemental losing its "head" still wouldn't mean anything; it just takes the extra damage just as it would from a barbarian using power attack.