Psion-Killer (no, not the Golem) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Psion-Killer (no, not the Golem) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tectorman
02-20-08, 01:59 PM "Oh, them 'Psionics' types. They're an abomination to the natural order. No one should have that much power available to them unrestricted. The Slayers of the Occult got it wrong: spells and such are fine, they got limits. Divine magic is only available to the devout, whether it be to the gods or to nature. Furthermore, all magic has those components; interfere with one and the spell is gone.

But psychic power? Shut him up, he can still 'manifest'. Tie him up, he never needed his hands in the first place. And no focus to take away, no sir. Naw, these Psions need to be wiped out, and I'm the one to do it. Besides, they're not really people, not like you and me. That psychic power scrambles their brains, taints them. No, it's not killing, not in the least."

Such would be the opening flavor text for the Psion-Killer. I got this idea when I was thinking of what to do to cause a rift between my character and her mother (she being a Psi-Fighter (see my sig), the mother being a Hexblade). Then I saw Jumper last weekend (awesome movie) and realized it could be adapted easily.

Instead of Paladins hunting Jumpers (seeing them as abominations to the natural order), there'd be a order of Psion Hunters search-and-destroying anything with a "psionics" subtype (not to mention questing after the Annulus) for the same reason. And a PrC to go along with this order.

So, before I begin posting what this class would be like, a couple of questions. There are some similarly themed PrCs already, the Occult Slayer (hinted at above) and the Illithid Slayer. I can easily see both of them being adapted to "anti-psionics" instead. Furthermore, there are already a few feats in the XPH for an "anti-psionics" character (Psionic Hole, Closed Mind, etc.). So first off:

Are the two PrCs, the Occult Slayer and the Illithid Slayer, considered pretty balanced (i.e., should I write out the class similar to one of those or would the PrC be too strong/weak)?

Is there a PrC out there already (whether WotC material or someone's homebrew) that's already done this?

Any suggestions for what to put in the class and what to make as it's prerequisites (including whether or not to make the class a spellcasting class)?
Tectorman
02-25-08, 04:27 PM Ah, I made a classic mistake. I asked way too many open-ended questions in a single post (perfect recipe for many thread views and no responses). So I'll be more specific.

Generic opinion of the Occult Warrior: good or bad (balanced or overpowered/underpowered)?
ultimate_tracker
02-25-08, 05:56 PM i was going to play a homebrewed one in a previous d&d session once, man was it going to be good, dont have the specifics but it was kind of a spin off of the the psion thief (spell theif variant) but instaed of being able to manifest the powers or power point whatever (can't remember)this character fed off of them kinda like a vamp, he even needed to feed off it every so often to stay in the class, i think alot of the abilities revolved around the manifester having to use more then he would normally have to use against me that coupled with when i snuck attacked him id steal his power points and also my normal hit damge would steal powerpoints from him, this character would have bane a complete bane to psionice, downfall would have been the fact that he would of sucked agaisnt anything else.
DonThelonious
02-26-08, 10:32 AM I personally don't know of any PrC's that do this. You might ask the guys at the psionics forums though, they might have some ideas.

As for the class, well it sounds unique and awesome. I would love to see it built! I know I have a guy I play with who loves psionics and it would be great to throw a psion hunter/killer at him.
Tectorman
04-11-08, 11:08 AM Got it done!

PSION-KILLER

Requirements
To qualify to become a psion-killer, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Base Attack Bonus: +5
Skills: Knowledge (psionics) 3 ranks, Psicraft 3 ranks
Feats: Closed Mind
Special: You must not have the Psionics subtype.
Hit Die: d8

Class Skills
The psi-fighter’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Knowledge (psionics) (Int), Profession (Wis), Psicraft (Int), and Sense Motive (Wis).

Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.
Base
Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +1 +0 +0 +2 Mental defense +1, weapon meld
2nd +2 +0 +0 +3 Mind against mind 1/encounter, Psionic Hole
3rd +3 +1 +1 +3 Auravision, mental defense +2
4th +4 +1 +1 +4 Mind against mind 2/encounter, nondetection cloak
5th +5 +1 +1 +4 Blank thoughts, mental defense +3

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Psion-killers are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and all armor and shields (except tower shields).

Mental Defense (Ex): A psion-killer’s specialized training against psychic power manifests itself as a bonus on saving throws against powers, psi-like abilities, and spell-like abilities labeled as “Psionics”. This bonus is +1 at 1st level, and it increases to +2 at 3rd level and to +3 at 5th level.

Weapon Meld (Su): A psion-killer must take one hour to focus his training on a single weapon of at least masterwork quality. Upon making his selection, he immediately forms a meld with the chosen weapon that imbues it with the force of his hatred of psionics. Thereafter, any successful attack he makes with that weapon against a creature with the Psionics subtype deals an extra 1d6 points of damage +1 every level after first (for a total of +1d6 +4 at 5th level).

If this particular weapon is lost or destroyed, the psion-killer loses the ability to deal the extra damage until he acquires and melds with another weapon of at least masterwork quality. The psion-killer may also voluntarily choose a new weapon to meld with (so long as it too is of at least masterwork quality. In all cases, the psion-killer requires an hour to form the meld. A psion-killer may treat his own unarmed strikes as a suitable weapon only if he has the Improved Unarmed Strike feat (the psion-killer’s unarmed strikes are not actually masterwork weapons and thus wouldn’t get the +1 bonus to attack rolls that the masterwork quality typically comes with.

Mind Against Mind (Su): Starting at 2nd level, a psion-killer can cause a power or psi-like effect targeted against him to rebound onto the originator as a free action (may still be taken even if it’s not the psion-killer’s turn). This ability otherwise functions as the reddopsi power (effective manifester level equals the character’s psion-killer level +5). A psion-killer can use this ability once per encounter at 2nd level and twice per encounter at 4th level.

Psionic Hole (Su): At 2nd level and higher, a psion-killer produces an effect similar to the Psionic Hole feat (see page 50 of the Expanded Psionics Handbook) with the following exceptions. The psion-killer does not require a Constitution score of 15 or higher to use this ability, and the manifester of a power that targets you must spend additional power points equal to your psion-killer level (rather than your Wisdom bonus).

Auravision (Su): From 3rd level on, a psion-killer gains the ability to see psionic auras at a range of 60 feet as a free action. This ability otherwise functions as the detect psionics power. The character cannot use this ability to determine anything but the number of psionic auras present.

Nondetection Cloak (Su): Upon attaining 4th level, a psion-killer (and any gear he wears or carries) becomes more difficult to locate through clairsentience powers such as clairvoyant sense, remote viewing, and other clairsentience powers. The psion-killer gains supernatural protection from clairsentience powers equivalent to a nondetection spell (effective caster level equals twice the character’s psion-killer level), except that it affects only the psion-killer and his possessions.

Blank Thoughts (Ex): At 5th level, a psion-killer can produce within himself a state of mental absence, thereby becoming immune to mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, patterns, phantasms, and morale effects). He can suppress or resume this ability as a free action.
Orenmir
04-15-08, 10:17 AM Is there a PrC out there already (whether WotC material or someone's homebrew) that's already done this?

If your DM follows the Magic/Psionics Transparency Rule, Occult Slayer fits the bill. RAI, an OS works for Psionics too. If you or your DM think that's too transparent, make the OS take a homebrewed feat to allow such transparency. Call it Psionic Slayer, maybe? Make some Psicraft and Knowledge (Psionics) ranks prereqs for the feat.

What you've built is almost the same thing. The only problem is that nobody would want to play your PrC outside of a campaign heavy with manifesters and nearly void of casters. Unless, of course, we are looking at the Magic/Psionics Transparency Rule in reverse. In which case, you've simply made another OS PrC.
Tectorman
04-15-08, 03:17 PM Well, most of the reason I did it was because after seeing the Occult Slayer and the Witch Hunter (ToM), I thought it unfair that there wasn't one for psionics. Plus, while magic-psionics transparency exists and would work for most of this, Mind Over Magic (using Spell Turning) would require more doing to change it from spell levels to power points. Switching it out for Reddopsi's just easier. Also, this gave me the chance to change a few things about the OS that I didn't like.

A.) Nondetection Cloak (a la OS) uses your OS level as your caster level. Meaning that the total DC for someone to spy on you gets no higher than 20. This is useless against equivalent-level opponents by level 19 and might as well not be there. Come to think of it, I'm not sure my substitution (CL = PK level x 2) is suitable, either. Suggestions?

B.) Weapon Bond seemed a bit wonky to me. The higher you go, the harder it is (the longer it takes) to replace the weapon, but it's benefit to you never improves? And the whole Weapon Focus thing. What is it about specializing in one weapon that contributes to you being better able to take on spellcasters?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tectorman 02-20-08, 01:59 PM	"Oh, them 'Psionics' types. They're an abomination to the natural order. No one should have that much power available to them unrestricted. The Slayers of the Occult got it wrong: spells and such are fine, they got limits. Divine magic is only available to the devout, whether it be to the gods or to nature. Furthermore, all magic has those components; interfere with one and the spell is gone. But psychic power? Shut him up, he can still 'manifest'. Tie him up, he never needed his hands in the first place. And no focus to take away, no sir. Naw, these Psions need to be wiped out, and I'm the one to do it. Besides, they're not really people, not like you and me. That psychic power scrambles their brains, taints them. No, it's not killing, not in the least." Such would be the opening flavor text for the Psion-Killer. I got this idea when I was thinking of what to do to cause a rift between my character and her mother (she being a Psi-Fighter (see my sig), the mother being a Hexblade). Then I saw Jumper last weekend (awesome movie) and realized it could be adapted easily. Instead of Paladins hunting Jumpers (seeing them as abominations to the natural order), there'd be a order of Psion Hunters search-and-destroying anything with a "psionics" subtype (not to mention questing after the Annulus) for the same reason. And a PrC to go along with this order. So, before I begin posting what this class would be like, a couple of questions. There are some similarly themed PrCs already, the Occult Slayer (hinted at above) and the Illithid Slayer. I can easily see both of them being adapted to "anti-psionics" instead. Furthermore, there are already a few feats in the XPH for an "anti-psionics" character (Psionic Hole, Closed Mind, etc.). So first off: Are the two PrCs, the Occult Slayer and the Illithid Slayer, considered pretty balanced (i.e., should I write out the class similar to one of those or would the PrC be too strong/weak)? Is there a PrC out there already (whether WotC material or someone's homebrew) that's already done this? Any suggestions for what to put in the class and what to make as it's prerequisites (including whether or not to make the class a spellcasting class)?
Tectorman 02-25-08, 04:27 PM	Ah, I made a classic mistake. I asked way too many open-ended questions in a single post (perfect recipe for many thread views and no responses). So I'll be more specific. Generic opinion of the Occult Warrior: good or bad (balanced or overpowered/underpowered)?
ultimate_tracker 02-25-08, 05:56 PM	i was going to play a homebrewed one in a previous d&d session once, man was it going to be good, dont have the specifics but it was kind of a spin off of the the psion thief (spell theif variant) but instaed of being able to manifest the powers or power point whatever (can't remember)this character fed off of them kinda like a vamp, he even needed to feed off it every so often to stay in the class, i think alot of the abilities revolved around the manifester having to use more then he would normally have to use against me that coupled with when i snuck attacked him id steal his power points and also my normal hit damge would steal powerpoints from him, this character would have bane a complete bane to psionice, downfall would have been the fact that he would of sucked agaisnt anything else.
DonThelonious 02-26-08, 10:32 AM	I personally don't know of any PrC's that do this. You might ask the guys at the psionics forums though, they might have some ideas. As for the class, well it sounds unique and awesome. I would love to see it built! I know I have a guy I play with who loves psionics and it would be great to throw a psion hunter/killer at him.
Tectorman 04-11-08, 11:08 AM	Got it done! PSION-KILLER Requirements To qualify to become a psion-killer, a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Base Attack Bonus: +5 Skills: Knowledge (psionics) 3 ranks, Psicraft 3 ranks Feats: Closed Mind Special: You must not have the Psionics subtype. Hit Die: d8 Class Skills The psi-fighter’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Knowledge (psionics) (Int), Profession (Wis), Psicraft (Int), and Sense Motive (Wis). Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier. Base Attack Fort Ref Will Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st +1 +0 +0 +2 Mental defense +1, weapon meld 2nd +2 +0 +0 +3 Mind against mind 1/encounter, Psionic Hole 3rd +3 +1 +1 +3 Auravision, mental defense +2 4th +4 +1 +1 +4 Mind against mind 2/encounter, nondetection cloak 5th +5 +1 +1 +4 Blank thoughts, mental defense +3 Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Psion-killers are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and all armor and shields (except tower shields). Mental Defense (Ex): A psion-killer’s specialized training against psychic power manifests itself as a bonus on saving throws against powers, psi-like abilities, and spell-like abilities labeled as “Psionics”. This bonus is +1 at 1st level, and it increases to +2 at 3rd level and to +3 at 5th level. Weapon Meld (Su): A psion-killer must take one hour to focus his training on a single weapon of at least masterwork quality. Upon making his selection, he immediately forms a meld with the chosen weapon that imbues it with the force of his hatred of psionics. Thereafter, any successful attack he makes with that weapon against a creature with the Psionics subtype deals an extra 1d6 points of damage +1 every level after first (for a total of +1d6 +4 at 5th level). If this particular weapon is lost or destroyed, the psion-killer loses the ability to deal the extra damage until he acquires and melds with another weapon of at least masterwork quality. The psion-killer may also voluntarily choose a new weapon to meld with (so long as it too is of at least masterwork quality. In all cases, the psion-killer requires an hour to form the meld. A psion-killer may treat his own unarmed strikes as a suitable weapon only if he has the Improved Unarmed Strike feat (the psion-killer’s unarmed strikes are not actually masterwork weapons and thus wouldn’t get the +1 bonus to attack rolls that the masterwork quality typically comes with. Mind Against Mind (Su): Starting at 2nd level, a psion-killer can cause a power or psi-like effect targeted against him to rebound onto the originator as a free action (may still be taken even if it’s not the psion-killer’s turn). This ability otherwise functions as the reddopsi power (effective manifester level equals the character’s psion-killer level +5). A psion-killer can use this ability once per encounter at 2nd level and twice per encounter at 4th level. Psionic Hole (Su): At 2nd level and higher, a psion-killer produces an effect similar to the Psionic Hole feat (see page 50 of the Expanded Psionics Handbook) with the following exceptions. The psion-killer does not require a Constitution score of 15 or higher to use this ability, and the manifester of a power that targets you must spend additional power points equal to your psion-killer level (rather than your Wisdom bonus). Auravision (Su): From 3rd level on, a psion-killer gains the ability to see psionic auras at a range of 60 feet as a free action. This ability otherwise functions as the detect psionics power. The character cannot use this ability to determine anything but the number of psionic auras present. Nondetection Cloak (Su): Upon attaining 4th level, a psion-killer (and any gear he wears or carries) becomes more difficult to locate through clairsentience powers such as clairvoyant sense, remote viewing, and other clairsentience powers. The psion-killer gains supernatural protection from clairsentience powers equivalent to a nondetection spell (effective caster level equals twice the character’s psion-killer level), except that it affects only the psion-killer and his possessions. Blank Thoughts (Ex): At 5th level, a psion-killer can produce within himself a state of mental absence, thereby becoming immune to mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, patterns, phantasms, and morale effects). He can suppress or resume this ability as a free action.
Orenmir 04-15-08, 10:17 AM	Is there a PrC out there already (whether WotC material or someone's homebrew) that's already done this? If your DM follows the Magic/Psionics Transparency Rule, Occult Slayer fits the bill. RAI, an OS works for Psionics too. If you or your DM think that's too transparent, make the OS take a homebrewed feat to allow such transparency. Call it Psionic Slayer, maybe? Make some Psicraft and Knowledge (Psionics) ranks prereqs for the feat. What you've built is almost the same thing. The only problem is that nobody would want to play your PrC outside of a campaign heavy with manifesters and nearly void of casters. Unless, of course, we are looking at the Magic/Psionics Transparency Rule in reverse. In which case, you've simply made another OS PrC.
Tectorman 04-15-08, 03:17 PM	Well, most of the reason I did it was because after seeing the Occult Slayer and the Witch Hunter (ToM), I thought it unfair that there wasn't one for psionics. Plus, while magic-psionics transparency exists and would work for most of this, Mind Over Magic (using Spell Turning) would require more doing to change it from spell levels to power points. Switching it out for Reddopsi's just easier. Also, this gave me the chance to change a few things about the OS that I didn't like. A.) Nondetection Cloak (a la OS) uses your OS level as your caster level. Meaning that the total DC for someone to spy on you gets no higher than 20. This is useless against equivalent-level opponents by level 19 and might as well not be there. Come to think of it, I'm not sure my substitution (CL = PK level x 2) is suitable, either. Suggestions? B.) Weapon Bond seemed a bit wonky to me. The higher you go, the harder it is (the longer it takes) to replace the weapon, but it's benefit to you never improves? And the whole Weapon Focus thing. What is it about specializing in one weapon that contributes to you being better able to take on spellcasters?