quiick question on Chameleon [Archive] - Wizards Community

quiick question on Chameleon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Hideous Phidias
05-05-07, 01:18 PM I was looking at the requirements for the chameleon prestige class again, it being the best for players like myself who can never make up their mind about their class. The problem I have with the class is that only a few types of races can take it because of the racial requirments for it. Human, changling or doppelganger does not make for many choses and limits the number of times before you start to play the same character idea again. So I got to thinking and remembered the Human Heritage feat out of the same book. This feat changes the subtype of any half human or human descended to human and gives them the classic extra skill point at each level. Now to my question as DMs would you allow a player to take this feat then able learner to meet the requirements of the Chameleon prestige class? Would you allow shifters, Illumians, half-orcs, half-elfs, tieflings, aasimars, skulks, underfolk, or mongrelfolk to take the Prestige class using this methed?
Cala, Legend Reborn
05-05-07, 09:20 PM The Able Learner has quite a bit of thematics to it, as well as mechanical. You can't really go around doing everything if you can't learn it very well. Just because you're a human doesn't mean you're naturally good at everything. It takes a certain knack (aka, the feat) to be able to dip your hand here and there.

Now, if your group is cool with the flaw system, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) then a half-human/descendant with both Human Heritage and Able Learner could be considered as a potential Chameleon (at DM's discretion).

One thing about the Chameleon though: while it's nice for those indecisive types, it can be a challenging class to play if you're not good with the bookwork.
CantripN
05-06-07, 08:49 AM Eh, Illumians already have the benefit of Human Heritage as is.
As for Half-Elves, I'd allow them to do so after taking a level in Half-Elf Paragon and a level in Human Paragon (or just say they can't take levels in Elf Paragon).
I'd probably just let Mongrefolk get in without major issues...

Illumians with UurKrau make the best Chameleons, in my experience... DEX to AC, Attack, Reflex, Bonus Spells and Initiative is fun.
Marcus Majarra
05-06-07, 08:35 PM Having the Human subtype doesn't mean illumians qualify as humans. It's like saying that half-elves qualify as elves by virtue of their Elf subtype. As it is, it's the elven blood racial feature that allows them to qualify as elves.
Phalo
05-06-07, 09:23 PM i just checked the excerpt on chameleons half whatevers don't qualify. Sorry to be a buzz kill.

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS

Race: Human or Doppelganger.
Skills: Bluff 8 ranks, Disguise 8 ranks, Sense Motive 4 ranks, Spellcraft 4 ranks.
Feat: Able Learner* feat.
Marcus Majarra
05-07-07, 03:23 AM Well, Changelings are semi-officially recognized as qualifying the Chameleon PrC. They're officially recognized as qualifying for RPGA campaigns.
NoldorForce
05-08-07, 10:29 AM More to the point, the Chameleon PrC has a note at the bottom explicitly allowing changelings to enter it.

I believe that the whole intent of the Human subtype (something that Illumians and Azurins have) is to allow that particular race to qualify for stuff as a human.
RealSorceror
05-08-07, 10:56 AM Sure, I'd allow Illumians, Half-elves, Mongrelfolk, and Azurins to qualify, but certian other semi-human races are stretching it. Teiflings, Aasimars, Skulks, and Underfolk, to me, just don't have a diverse enough background to qualify. I think someone mentioned Shifters. Thats a flat out no.
Hideous Phidias
05-08-07, 02:17 PM i just checked the excerpt on chameleons half whatevers don't qualify. Sorry to be a buzz kill.

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS

Race: Human or Doppelganger.
Skills: Bluff 8 ranks, Disguise 8 ranks, Sense Motive 4 ranks, Spellcraft 4 ranks.
Feat: Able Learner* feat.

No buzz kill
I think you missed the point of the thread would the feat human heritage allow a race with human blood in their back ground to get in to the class. One has to have two feats t do this so with out flaws from UA or a background feat you cann ot. But given a extra feat at first level one shpuld beable to take the feat andchange theirr subtype to meet the requirements.
aelryinth
05-08-07, 11:29 PM Human subtype qualifies you for being a victim to Human bane weapons, not to qualify for Chameleon.

===Aelryinth
Hideous Phidias
05-09-07, 02:05 AM So I can take a feat to make me into a human and get the main benift of being human but I am still not human. That makes about as much sense as a pig and frog love story.
DS
05-10-07, 12:28 PM According to the sidebar on page 150 of Races of Destiny anything with the human subtype qualify as humans for feats, prestige classes, magic items, and so forth. That means Illumians, Karsites, Underfolk, Skulks, Sharakim, Sea Kin, and Mogrelfolk all qualify as humans for Able Learner and Chameleon. Meanwhile, unless the variant rule described on page 150 is used, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Tieflings, Aasimars, and Half-Ogres would have to take the Human Heritage Feat to qualify and thus without somehow having an extra feat at first level could not take Able Learner or Chameleon.
forsaken1111
05-10-07, 06:22 PM According to the sidebar on page 150 of Races of Destiny anything with the human subtype qualify as humans for feats, prestige classes, magic items, and so forth. That means Illumians, Karsites, Underfolk, Skulks, Sharakim, Sea Kin, and Mogrelfolk all qualify as humans for Able Learner and Chameleon. Meanwhile, unless the variant rule described on page 150 is used, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Tieflings, Aasimars, and Half-Ogres would have to take the Human Heritage Feat to qualify and thus without somehow having an extra feat at first level could not take Able Learner or Chameleon.

If I had a player dead-set on taking chameleon with a half-orc or similar race I'd allow them to take able learner as their 3rd level feat instead.

Maybe I'm lenient, but I like those concepts.
DS
05-10-07, 07:10 PM If I had a player dead-set on taking chameleon with a half-orc or similar race I'd allow them to take able learner as their 3rd level feat instead.

Maybe I'm lenient, but I like those concepts.

Personally, I'd use the variant rule and allow any of the human descended races to qualify. All the races that don't have the human subtype to begin with have a level adjustment or just suck to anyway. (I'm looking at you Mr. Half-Elf)

Maybe I'm too lenient, but I don't think it's unbalanced.:)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hideous Phidias 05-05-07, 01:18 PM	I was looking at the requirements for the chameleon prestige class again, it being the best for players like myself who can never make up their mind about their class. The problem I have with the class is that only a few types of races can take it because of the racial requirments for it. Human, changling or doppelganger does not make for many choses and limits the number of times before you start to play the same character idea again. So I got to thinking and remembered the Human Heritage feat out of the same book. This feat changes the subtype of any half human or human descended to human and gives them the classic extra skill point at each level. Now to my question as DMs would you allow a player to take this feat then able learner to meet the requirements of the Chameleon prestige class? Would you allow shifters, Illumians, half-orcs, half-elfs, tieflings, aasimars, skulks, underfolk, or mongrelfolk to take the Prestige class using this methed?
Cala, Legend Reborn 05-05-07, 09:20 PM	The Able Learner has quite a bit of thematics to it, as well as mechanical. You can't really go around doing everything if you can't learn it very well. Just because you're a human doesn't mean you're naturally good at everything. It takes a certain knack (aka, the feat) to be able to dip your hand here and there. Now, if your group is cool with the flaw system, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) then a half-human/descendant with both Human Heritage and Able Learner could be considered as a potential Chameleon (at DM's discretion). One thing about the Chameleon though: while it's nice for those indecisive types, it can be a challenging class to play if you're not good with the bookwork.
CantripN 05-06-07, 08:49 AM	Eh, Illumians already have the benefit of Human Heritage as is. As for Half-Elves, I'd allow them to do so after taking a level in Half-Elf Paragon and a level in Human Paragon (or just say they can't take levels in Elf Paragon). I'd probably just let Mongrefolk get in without major issues... Illumians with UurKrau make the best Chameleons, in my experience... DEX to AC, Attack, Reflex, Bonus Spells and Initiative is fun.
Marcus Majarra 05-06-07, 08:35 PM	Having the Human subtype doesn't mean illumians qualify as humans. It's like saying that half-elves qualify as elves by virtue of their Elf subtype. As it is, it's the elven blood racial feature that allows them to qualify as elves.
Phalo 05-06-07, 09:23 PM	i just checked the excerpt on chameleons half whatevers don't qualify. Sorry to be a buzz kill. ENTRY REQUIREMENTS Race: Human or Doppelganger. Skills: Bluff 8 ranks, Disguise 8 ranks, Sense Motive 4 ranks, Spellcraft 4 ranks. Feat: Able Learner* feat.
Marcus Majarra 05-07-07, 03:23 AM	Well, Changelings are semi-officially recognized as qualifying the Chameleon PrC. They're officially recognized as qualifying for RPGA campaigns.
NoldorForce 05-08-07, 10:29 AM	More to the point, the Chameleon PrC has a note at the bottom explicitly allowing changelings to enter it. I believe that the whole intent of the Human subtype (something that Illumians and Azurins have) is to allow that particular race to qualify for stuff as a human.
RealSorceror 05-08-07, 10:56 AM	Sure, I'd allow Illumians, Half-elves, Mongrelfolk, and Azurins to qualify, but certian other semi-human races are stretching it. Teiflings, Aasimars, Skulks, and Underfolk, to me, just don't have a diverse enough background to qualify. I think someone mentioned Shifters. Thats a flat out no.
Hideous Phidias 05-08-07, 02:17 PM	i just checked the excerpt on chameleons half whatevers don't qualify. Sorry to be a buzz kill. ENTRY REQUIREMENTS Race: Human or Doppelganger. Skills: Bluff 8 ranks, Disguise 8 ranks, Sense Motive 4 ranks, Spellcraft 4 ranks. Feat: Able Learner* feat. No buzz kill I think you missed the point of the thread would the feat human heritage allow a race with human blood in their back ground to get in to the class. One has to have two feats t do this so with out flaws from UA or a background feat you cann ot. But given a extra feat at first level one shpuld beable to take the feat andchange theirr subtype to meet the requirements.
aelryinth 05-08-07, 11:29 PM	Human subtype qualifies you for being a victim to Human bane weapons, not to qualify for Chameleon. ===Aelryinth
Hideous Phidias 05-09-07, 02:05 AM	So I can take a feat to make me into a human and get the main benift of being human but I am still not human. That makes about as much sense as a pig and frog love story.
DS 05-10-07, 12:28 PM	According to the sidebar on page 150 of Races of Destiny anything with the human subtype qualify as humans for feats, prestige classes, magic items, and so forth. That means Illumians, Karsites, Underfolk, Skulks, Sharakim, Sea Kin, and Mogrelfolk all qualify as humans for Able Learner and Chameleon. Meanwhile, unless the variant rule described on page 150 is used, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Tieflings, Aasimars, and Half-Ogres would have to take the Human Heritage Feat to qualify and thus without somehow having an extra feat at first level could not take Able Learner or Chameleon.
forsaken1111 05-10-07, 06:22 PM	According to the sidebar on page 150 of Races of Destiny anything with the human subtype qualify as humans for feats, prestige classes, magic items, and so forth. That means Illumians, Karsites, Underfolk, Skulks, Sharakim, Sea Kin, and Mogrelfolk all qualify as humans for Able Learner and Chameleon. Meanwhile, unless the variant rule described on page 150 is used, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Tieflings, Aasimars, and Half-Ogres would have to take the Human Heritage Feat to qualify and thus without somehow having an extra feat at first level could not take Able Learner or Chameleon. If I had a player dead-set on taking chameleon with a half-orc or similar race I'd allow them to take able learner as their 3rd level feat instead. Maybe I'm lenient, but I like those concepts.
DS 05-10-07, 07:10 PM	If I had a player dead-set on taking chameleon with a half-orc or similar race I'd allow them to take able learner as their 3rd level feat instead. Maybe I'm lenient, but I like those concepts. Personally, I'd use the variant rule and allow any of the human descended races to qualify. All the races that don't have the human subtype to begin with have a level adjustment or just suck to anyway. (I'm looking at you Mr. Half-Elf) Maybe I'm too lenient, but I don't think it's unbalanced.:)