Rage Mage Redux [PEACH] [Archive] - Wizards Community

Rage Mage Redux [PEACH] [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lord_Iames
02-27-07, 10:39 PM Rage Mage Redux
While for most spellcasters, powerful emotions like rage are disruptive to the concentration necessary to complete the ritual of spellcasting, there are certain individuals who learn to turn their rage into a ritual in and of itself. These are the rage mages, and they are individuals to be greatly feared. While the majority are arcanists, there are a few divine casters who have unlocked the secrets of enraged spellcasting.
Hit Die: d6.

REQUIREMENTS
Alignment: Any nonlawful.
Base Attack Bonus: +3.
Feats: Combat Casting.
Spells: Must be able to cast 2nd-level spells.
Special: Rage or frenzy ability.

Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spells per day
1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Spell rage +1 ~
2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 ~ +1 level of spellcasting class
3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Enraged empower +1 level of spellcasting class
4th +4 +4 +1 +1 ~ +1 level of spellcasting class
5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Spell rage +2 ~
6th +6 +5 +2 +2 Greater rage ~
7th +7 +5 +2 +2 Enraged quicken +1 level of spellcasting class
8th +8 +6 +2 +2 ~ +1 level of spellcasting class
9th +9 +6 +3 +3 Spell rage +3 +1 level of spellcasting class
10th +10 +7 +3 +3 Perfect spell rage ~

Class Skills
The rage mage’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int).
Skill points per level: 2 + Int mod.

Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Rage mages gain no proficiency in weapons or armor. However, they do learn how to ignore the arcane spell failure chance imposed by light armor.
Spells Per Day: At every level except 1st, 5th, 6th, and 10th, the rage mage's spellcasting ability improves as if he had gained a level in whichever spellcasting class he previously belonged to. He gains no other benefits of going up a level in that class.
Spell Rage (Ex): A rage mage can cast spells while in a rage or frenzy, although other activities requiring patience and concentration are still prohibited. Only spells with casting times of 1 full-round action or less and that damage or kill one’s foes, or increase one’s own ability to damage one’s foes, may be cast. This includes healing and defensive spells, since one cannot kill one’s enemy if one is dead.

During a rage, the caster level and save DCs of the rage mage's spells increase by +1. At 5th level, the bonus to CL and save DCs increases to +2, and to again at 9th to +3. In addition to being fatigued at the end of his rage, the rage mage also becomes mentally fatigued for the duration of the current encounter.

Rage mage levels count as and stack with barbarian levels for the purpose of determining how many times a rage mage can rage per day.
Enraged Empower (Ex): At 3rd level, a rage mage learns to harness his rage to make his spells more damaging. Once per rage, a rage mage can apply the Empower Spell metamagic feat to one of his spells without spending an higher-level spell slot or increasing its casting time.
Greater Rage (Ex): At 5th level, a rage mage’s bonuses to Strength and Constitution during his rage each increase by +2, and his morale bonus on Will saves increases by +1. The penalty to AC remains at -2.
Enraged Quicken (Ex): At 7th level, a rage mage learns to harness his rage to make his spells take less time. Once per rage, a rage mage can apply the Quicken Spell metamagic feat to one of his spells without spending an higher-level spell slot or increasing its casting time.
Perfect Rage (Ex): At 10th level, a rage mage no longer becomes fatigued and mentally fatigued at the end of his rage and has no chance of losing spellcasting ability after a rage. Also, the restrictions on what spells can be used in a rage is lifted.
The_Shaman
03-01-07, 09:34 AM You might want to nerf it a bit. Full BAB, 8/10 casting, greater and tireless rage... Not that I'd mind if I were a barb/mage, but it is quite powerful. Not to mention that cleric/barbs around the world would sing in joy, as I see there's nothing prohibiting them from joining in.
Lord_Iames
03-01-07, 12:58 PM What would you recommend in terms of nerfing?
The_Shaman
03-01-07, 03:06 PM It depends - since you are making it, what is your problem with the rage mage from the Complete Series?
Lord_Iames
03-01-07, 07:01 PM Well, there are a couple of things.

1) The whole interaction of Spell Rage and normal rage is very confused and confusingly worded.

2) It gives up too many caster levels, and doesn't have the BAB to make it a good gish PrC in spite of the caster level loss.

So, basically I'm trying to simplify and augment. I liked some of the existing class's special abilities, but I couldn't work them in and grant more caster levels at the same time.
Empiro
03-02-07, 01:28 AM I think that the class is "castery" enough, but not barbariany enough.

My personal tweaks to the class would be to give it a fighter's BAB, but keep 1/2 spellcasting. I'd also add more special benefits at each level, like DR and other things. The HD of the class ought to be increased to d10 too, because you'll get hit alot when both in a spell rage and a regular rage.

I'd also make the spell rage more potent by increasing the damage a damage dealing spells by 2 points per spell level, or by letting you empower one spell of some level or lower during a spell rage.

I'd also just give the class the ability to avoid spell failure in all light armors (so they can take a feat to get it in medium armor). I dislike the whole ASF % in D&D altogether.
Tuhljin
03-02-07, 02:19 AM Spells cast during a rage are cast at a higher caster level than normal, as indicated on the table. However, there is a 5% chance per caster level added that, in addition to being fatigued at the end of his rage, the rage mage will also be unable to cast spells for the duration of the current encounter.
I don't know if this was in the original rage mage or not (don't have the book in front of me), but why is there a penalty which is more likely to affect you the more caster levels you have?
Lord_Iames
03-02-07, 12:02 PM I think that the class is "castery" enough, but not barbariany enough.

My personal tweaks to the class would be to give it a fighter's BAB, but keep 1/2 spellcasting. I'd also add more special benefits at each level, like DR and other things. The HD of the class ought to be increased to d10 too, because you'll get hit alot when both in a spell rage and a regular rage.

Well, the thing is that with this version, all your rages are spell rages.

I'd also make the spell rage more potent by increasing the damage a damage dealing spells by 2 points per spell level, or by letting you empower one spell of some level or lower during a spell rage.

Your effective CL goes up when you're in a rage, which could increase your damage dice.

I'd also just give the class the ability to avoid spell failure in all light armors (so they can take a feat to get it in medium armor). I dislike the whole ASF % in D&D altogether.

I did that already, I put in the Weapon and Armor Proficiency section.

I don't know if this was in the original rage mage or not (don't have the book in front of me), but why is there a penalty which is more likely to affect you the more caster levels you have?

Well, one of the things I did with the Spell Rage was to make it a bit more like the wilder's wild surge ability. And so I also wanted to have an equivalent to the psychic enervation trait, although I may have overdone it.

In addition, just to clarify, it's a 5% chance for every CL aded by the Spell Rage ability, not for every CL.
Khael
03-02-07, 04:44 PM It looks like you've made a gish's dream, but for some not so good reasons:
Sepll rage etc... I couldn't see any reason any half-way effective caster would have used rage over spell rage anyway, regardless of times/per day, so thats a good idea.

The % to cl, and the possible drawback, would work as a slight balance with the 15% (as I read it at least) by level 10 chance but for... I'll save til the end.

The full BAB and d8 are over the top with what you get. You'll now tougher, better fighter than before, and possibly lose out on 3 casting levels in practice. With no drawback how can this be justified over ten levels? (Abjurent champion at least is only 5, and for the no drawback, see the bottom of the post.)

Overview-wise, This makes you lose out on 3 casting levels (1 barbarian, 2 for this), in exchange for 10d8b (thats 20 more hp average...) an extra +5 BAB over 10 levels, and the only other drawback I see is unlikely to be used.

All because of that % to lose casting for the encounter. I'd rather take this class and never use the spell-rage, to go with all those extra bonuses, than rage.
As far as I can tell that alone relegates this to a 4-drop class...and the advantages are still pretty good for that given the one spells you lost are from taking a level in barbarian.

Basically I think this is a bit over the top, and has lost what the original gave: The want to actually use those rages. At least you wanted to spell-rage with the official. If at all possible I wouldn't with this one.
Lord_Iames
03-02-07, 07:45 PM So, drop the HD, drop more caster levels, and what would you recommend I do with the % chance?
Khael
03-02-07, 07:57 PM I'd actually say more, cut HD/BAB or caster levels.

Maybe in fact the best route is for you to cut the caster levels progression to half as before since you're making it up on the fighting side of the class.

By this you can then keep the percentage chance since the spellrage would see more definate usage, without having cut the effectiveness so much in a fight if the worse happens.

(part of my problem with this was the fact for taking one level in barbarian, you got four levels in this class before losing any spellcasting, while still getting the spellrage 1/day, with BAB and HD. By cutting the caster level though this problem is removed.)
Lord_Iames
03-03-07, 03:18 PM See, one of the things I disliked about the original Rage Mage was the half caster level progression.

Hmmm. Let's try this....

Edit: Okay, I've dropped the HD to a d6 and taken away the spellcasting levels at 1st and 6th. I've also added some new abilities and rearranged the abilities somewhat. How does it look now?
Lord_Iames
03-06-07, 03:08 AM :shifty::bump:
Tuhljin
03-07-07, 03:46 AM I still don't like a penalty that effectively gets worse the better your character is at doing something - especially something that not only isn't any sort of "anti-thesis" to the PrC, but something anyone who takes the PrC should have decent skills at doing - but maybe that's just me. (There could be a few rare exceptions, but this isn't one of them.)
Lord_Iames
03-08-07, 01:37 PM Ok, that's a good point.

What I was after was a way of modeling a sort of mental fatigue on the part of the character in addition to physical fatigue after coming out of a rage. Hm... there's an idea. Why not invent a new condition, "mental fatigue", that imposes penalties to mental stats, and have that happen after a rage ends?

Originally posted by the SRD http://boards1.wizards.com/images/buttons/dnd/viewpost.gif (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#fatigued)
Fatigued

A fatigued character can neither run nor charge and takes a -2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. Doing anything that would normally cause fatigue causes the fatigued character to become exhausted. After 8 hours of complete rest, fatigued characters are no longer fatigued.

Mentally Fatigued

A mentally fatigued character takes a -2 penalty to all mental ablity scores. This penalty can cause a character to be unable to cast spells for which he no longer has the prerequisite ability score (10 + spell level) and bonus spells gained from a high ability score while the penalty lasts. Doing anything that would normally cause mental fatigue causes the fatigued character to become mentally exhausted. After 8 hours of complete rest, mentally fatigued characters are no longer mentally fatigued.

Mentally Exhausted

A mentally exhausted character cannot cast any spells or manifest any powers with a casting/manifesting time of a swift or immediate action, or with a casting/manifesting time of more than 1 full round action. A mentally exhausted character casts spells and powers with casting/manifesting times of 1 standard action as a full-round action. If a spontaneous caster, the character cannot apply any metamagic feats to spells. A psionic character cannot become psionically focused or apply metapsionic feats to his powers. A mentally exhausted character takes a -6 penalty to all mental ability scores. This penalty can cause a character to be unable to cast spells for which he no longer has the prerequisite ability score (10 + spell level) and bonus spells gained from a high ability score while the penalty lasts. After 1 hour of complete rest, a mentally exhausted character becomes mentally fatigued. A mentally fatigued character becomes mentally exhausted by doing something else that would normally cause mental fatigue, or by casting a spell or manifesting a power with a casting/manifesting time of a swift or immediate action, or a spell/power modified by a metamagic/metapsionic feat.
Tuhljin
03-08-07, 09:01 PM I like the mental fatigue idea. You'll have to define exactly what the penalty is when you say "lose access to high level spells" - which spells are high level? Perhaps any spell of an effective (counting metamagic) spell level that is the highest and maybe second highest level of spell the caster knows? Also, you should specify what "losing access" means - are the spells wiped from his memorized list, or are they simply uncastable until the fatigue ends?
Lord_Iames
03-09-07, 12:55 PM I meant in terms of "in order to cast a spell you must have a casting stat of at least 10 + spell level" kind of thing. If you're a wizard and your Int goes from 16 to 14, you aren't casting any 6th level spells anymore.

And I meant "uncastable," yeah.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lord_Iames 02-27-07, 10:39 PM	Rage Mage Redux While for most spellcasters, powerful emotions like rage are disruptive to the concentration necessary to complete the ritual of spellcasting, there are certain individuals who learn to turn their rage into a ritual in and of itself. These are the rage mages, and they are individuals to be greatly feared. While the majority are arcanists, there are a few divine casters who have unlocked the secrets of enraged spellcasting. Hit Die: d6. REQUIREMENTS Alignment: Any nonlawful. Base Attack Bonus: +3. Feats: Combat Casting. Spells: Must be able to cast 2nd-level spells. Special: Rage or frenzy ability. Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spells per day 1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Spell rage +1 ~ 2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 ~ +1 level of spellcasting class 3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Enraged empower +1 level of spellcasting class 4th +4 +4 +1 +1 ~ +1 level of spellcasting class 5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Spell rage +2 ~ 6th +6 +5 +2 +2 Greater rage ~ 7th +7 +5 +2 +2 Enraged quicken +1 level of spellcasting class 8th +8 +6 +2 +2 ~ +1 level of spellcasting class 9th +9 +6 +3 +3 Spell rage +3 +1 level of spellcasting class 10th +10 +7 +3 +3 Perfect spell rage ~ Class Skills The rage mage’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int). Skill points per level: 2 + Int mod. Class Features Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Rage mages gain no proficiency in weapons or armor. However, they do learn how to ignore the arcane spell failure chance imposed by light armor. Spells Per Day: At every level except 1st, 5th, 6th, and 10th, the rage mage's spellcasting ability improves as if he had gained a level in whichever spellcasting class he previously belonged to. He gains no other benefits of going up a level in that class. Spell Rage (Ex): A rage mage can cast spells while in a rage or frenzy, although other activities requiring patience and concentration are still prohibited. Only spells with casting times of 1 full-round action or less and that damage or kill one’s foes, or increase one’s own ability to damage one’s foes, may be cast. This includes healing and defensive spells, since one cannot kill one’s enemy if one is dead. During a rage, the caster level and save DCs of the rage mage's spells increase by +1. At 5th level, the bonus to CL and save DCs increases to +2, and to again at 9th to +3. In addition to being fatigued at the end of his rage, the rage mage also becomes mentally fatigued for the duration of the current encounter. Rage mage levels count as and stack with barbarian levels for the purpose of determining how many times a rage mage can rage per day. Enraged Empower (Ex): At 3rd level, a rage mage learns to harness his rage to make his spells more damaging. Once per rage, a rage mage can apply the Empower Spell metamagic feat to one of his spells without spending an higher-level spell slot or increasing its casting time. Greater Rage (Ex): At 5th level, a rage mage’s bonuses to Strength and Constitution during his rage each increase by +2, and his morale bonus on Will saves increases by +1. The penalty to AC remains at -2. Enraged Quicken (Ex): At 7th level, a rage mage learns to harness his rage to make his spells take less time. Once per rage, a rage mage can apply the Quicken Spell metamagic feat to one of his spells without spending an higher-level spell slot or increasing its casting time. Perfect Rage (Ex): At 10th level, a rage mage no longer becomes fatigued and mentally fatigued at the end of his rage and has no chance of losing spellcasting ability after a rage. Also, the restrictions on what spells can be used in a rage is lifted.
The_Shaman 03-01-07, 09:34 AM	You might want to nerf it a bit. Full BAB, 8/10 casting, greater and tireless rage... Not that I'd mind if I were a barb/mage, but it is quite powerful. Not to mention that cleric/barbs around the world would sing in joy, as I see there's nothing prohibiting them from joining in.
Lord_Iames 03-01-07, 12:58 PM	What would you recommend in terms of nerfing?
The_Shaman 03-01-07, 03:06 PM	It depends - since you are making it, what is your problem with the rage mage from the Complete Series?
Lord_Iames 03-01-07, 07:01 PM	Well, there are a couple of things. 1) The whole interaction of Spell Rage and normal rage is very confused and confusingly worded. 2) It gives up too many caster levels, and doesn't have the BAB to make it a good gish PrC in spite of the caster level loss. So, basically I'm trying to simplify and augment. I liked some of the existing class's special abilities, but I couldn't work them in and grant more caster levels at the same time.
Empiro 03-02-07, 01:28 AM	I think that the class is "castery" enough, but not barbariany enough. My personal tweaks to the class would be to give it a fighter's BAB, but keep 1/2 spellcasting. I'd also add more special benefits at each level, like DR and other things. The HD of the class ought to be increased to d10 too, because you'll get hit alot when both in a spell rage and a regular rage. I'd also make the spell rage more potent by increasing the damage a damage dealing spells by 2 points per spell level, or by letting you empower one spell of some level or lower during a spell rage. I'd also just give the class the ability to avoid spell failure in all light armors (so they can take a feat to get it in medium armor). I dislike the whole ASF % in D&D altogether.
Tuhljin 03-02-07, 02:19 AM	Spells cast during a rage are cast at a higher caster level than normal, as indicated on the table. However, there is a 5% chance per caster level added that, in addition to being fatigued at the end of his rage, the rage mage will also be unable to cast spells for the duration of the current encounter. I don't know if this was in the original rage mage or not (don't have the book in front of me), but why is there a penalty which is more likely to affect you the more caster levels you have?
Lord_Iames 03-02-07, 12:02 PM	I think that the class is "castery" enough, but not barbariany enough. My personal tweaks to the class would be to give it a fighter's BAB, but keep 1/2 spellcasting. I'd also add more special benefits at each level, like DR and other things. The HD of the class ought to be increased to d10 too, because you'll get hit alot when both in a spell rage and a regular rage. Well, the thing is that with this version, all your rages are spell rages. I'd also make the spell rage more potent by increasing the damage a damage dealing spells by 2 points per spell level, or by letting you empower one spell of some level or lower during a spell rage. Your effective CL goes up when you're in a rage, which could increase your damage dice. I'd also just give the class the ability to avoid spell failure in all light armors (so they can take a feat to get it in medium armor). I dislike the whole ASF % in D&D altogether. I did that already, I put in the Weapon and Armor Proficiency section. I don't know if this was in the original rage mage or not (don't have the book in front of me), but why is there a penalty which is more likely to affect you the more caster levels you have? Well, one of the things I did with the Spell Rage was to make it a bit more like the wilder's wild surge ability. And so I also wanted to have an equivalent to the psychic enervation trait, although I may have overdone it. In addition, just to clarify, it's a 5% chance for every CL aded by the Spell Rage ability, not for every CL.
Khael 03-02-07, 04:44 PM	It looks like you've made a gish's dream, but for some not so good reasons: Sepll rage etc... I couldn't see any reason any half-way effective caster would have used rage over spell rage anyway, regardless of times/per day, so thats a good idea. The % to cl, and the possible drawback, would work as a slight balance with the 15% (as I read it at least) by level 10 chance but for... I'll save til the end. The full BAB and d8 are over the top with what you get. You'll now tougher, better fighter than before, and possibly lose out on 3 casting levels in practice. With no drawback how can this be justified over ten levels? (Abjurent champion at least is only 5, and for the no drawback, see the bottom of the post.) Overview-wise, This makes you lose out on 3 casting levels (1 barbarian, 2 for this), in exchange for 10d8b (thats 20 more hp average...) an extra +5 BAB over 10 levels, and the only other drawback I see is unlikely to be used. All because of that % to lose casting for the encounter. I'd rather take this class and never use the spell-rage, to go with all those extra bonuses, than rage. As far as I can tell that alone relegates this to a 4-drop class...and the advantages are still pretty good for that given the one spells you lost are from taking a level in barbarian. Basically I think this is a bit over the top, and has lost what the original gave: The want to actually use those rages. At least you wanted to spell-rage with the official. If at all possible I wouldn't with this one.
Lord_Iames 03-02-07, 07:45 PM	So, drop the HD, drop more caster levels, and what would you recommend I do with the % chance?
Khael 03-02-07, 07:57 PM	I'd actually say more, cut HD/BAB or caster levels. Maybe in fact the best route is for you to cut the caster levels progression to half as before since you're making it up on the fighting side of the class. By this you can then keep the percentage chance since the spellrage would see more definate usage, without having cut the effectiveness so much in a fight if the worse happens. (part of my problem with this was the fact for taking one level in barbarian, you got four levels in this class before losing any spellcasting, while still getting the spellrage 1/day, with BAB and HD. By cutting the caster level though this problem is removed.)
Lord_Iames 03-03-07, 03:18 PM	See, one of the things I disliked about the original Rage Mage was the half caster level progression. Hmmm. Let's try this.... Edit: Okay, I've dropped the HD to a d6 and taken away the spellcasting levels at 1st and 6th. I've also added some new abilities and rearranged the abilities somewhat. How does it look now?
Lord_Iames 03-06-07, 03:08 AM	:shifty::bump:
Tuhljin 03-07-07, 03:46 AM	I still don't like a penalty that effectively gets worse the better your character is at doing something - especially something that not only isn't any sort of "anti-thesis" to the PrC, but something anyone who takes the PrC should have decent skills at doing - but maybe that's just me. (There could be a few rare exceptions, but this isn't one of them.)
Lord_Iames 03-08-07, 01:37 PM	Ok, that's a good point. What I was after was a way of modeling a sort of mental fatigue on the part of the character in addition to physical fatigue after coming out of a rage. Hm... there's an idea. Why not invent a new condition, "mental fatigue", that imposes penalties to mental stats, and have that happen after a rage ends? Originally posted by the SRD http://boards1.wizards.com/images/buttons/dnd/viewpost.gif (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#fatigued) Fatigued A fatigued character can neither run nor charge and takes a -2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. Doing anything that would normally cause fatigue causes the fatigued character to become exhausted. After 8 hours of complete rest, fatigued characters are no longer fatigued. Mentally Fatigued A mentally fatigued character takes a -2 penalty to all mental ablity scores. This penalty can cause a character to be unable to cast spells for which he no longer has the prerequisite ability score (10 + spell level) and bonus spells gained from a high ability score while the penalty lasts. Doing anything that would normally cause mental fatigue causes the fatigued character to become mentally exhausted. After 8 hours of complete rest, mentally fatigued characters are no longer mentally fatigued. Mentally Exhausted A mentally exhausted character cannot cast any spells or manifest any powers with a casting/manifesting time of a swift or immediate action, or with a casting/manifesting time of more than 1 full round action. A mentally exhausted character casts spells and powers with casting/manifesting times of 1 standard action as a full-round action. If a spontaneous caster, the character cannot apply any metamagic feats to spells. A psionic character cannot become psionically focused or apply metapsionic feats to his powers. A mentally exhausted character takes a -6 penalty to all mental ability scores. This penalty can cause a character to be unable to cast spells for which he no longer has the prerequisite ability score (10 + spell level) and bonus spells gained from a high ability score while the penalty lasts. After 1 hour of complete rest, a mentally exhausted character becomes mentally fatigued. A mentally fatigued character becomes mentally exhausted by doing something else that would normally cause mental fatigue, or by casting a spell or manifesting a power with a casting/manifesting time of a swift or immediate action, or a spell/power modified by a metamagic/metapsionic feat.
Tuhljin 03-08-07, 09:01 PM	I like the mental fatigue idea. You'll have to define exactly what the penalty is when you say "lose access to high level spells" - which spells are high level? Perhaps any spell of an effective (counting metamagic) spell level that is the highest and maybe second highest level of spell the caster knows? Also, you should specify what "losing access" means - are the spells wiped from his memorized list, or are they simply uncastable until the fatigue ends?
Lord_Iames 03-09-07, 12:55 PM	I meant in terms of "in order to cast a spell you must have a casting stat of at least 10 + spell level" kind of thing. If you're a wizard and your Int goes from 16 to 14, you aren't casting any 6th level spells anymore. And I meant "uncastable," yeah.