Rage Mage [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Rage Mage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Enderlaand
06-21-07, 11:45 AM What spells would you people recommend for the Rage Mage prestige class. I'm going to be playing a Sor/Brb. I'm starting at level 5, but at 7 I'm taking Rage Mage all the way. I just wondered what spells people would take at level 1 and 2 people would suggest.

I asked for help in the CO boards and was told not to play the Rage Mage. I say screw them.
The_Shaman
06-21-07, 11:58 AM Eeeh... buffs, I guess, maybe the odd battlefield control spell. Seriously, I am not a fan of the PrC myself.
RealSorceror
06-21-07, 02:23 PM What that one spell that turns you into a Warforged Titan? That'd be sweet to rage as one o' them.
The_Shaman
06-21-07, 05:02 PM I would prefer the one that turns you into an avatar of bahamut or tiamat, myself :D
Enderlaand
06-22-07, 12:31 PM Okay I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Could you actually name these spells and give me a clue where to find them. I have access to just about every book.
Khael
06-23-07, 02:05 PM The aspect of tiamat/bahamut spells are in dragon magic, and I think the warforged titan is in spell compendium.

However I suspect all three are useless to you as my opinion of the class says the character won't survive to get such high level spells, assuming your game goes up to near epics..

Bear's endurance, mage armour, shield, bull's strength, mirror image... Since the character probably can't be relied on to cast offensively (Poor caster level ratio, and at higher levels the lower grade spell you'll be at likely won't cut it damage wise) buffs like the above, which increase you're survival whether by hps, or AC at spell levels 1-2.

But for a better idea for advice: What do you want to do? In detail, since be 'a babarian with magic' isn't the most helpful way to put it across, as you can probably guess.
Enderlaand
06-25-07, 02:39 PM Sorry, I assumed that my description of the character would have been sufficient to tell you what I was looking for. I want to be able to go into melee combat as a sorcerer. I guess that means that I need to buff myself, and then when I have the spells I want, I rage and hack away. That's the plan for the first while. Later in life, when I can spell rage, I want to know what sorcerer spells, in the schools affected by a spell rage, would be effective choices to blast away, before I get into combat.

At low levels, the kinds of things I'm looking for are mage armor vs. shield discussions. Should I have Magic Missle? Dare I make a sorcerer who doesn't have it?

At high levels, (when I can spell rage) I want to know which damage-dealing touch spells are good choices. Should I be in touch range?

What are some tactics for this class that might work with the spell rage ability?
Khael
06-25-07, 03:57 PM The problem you'll have is this then: You will never be totally effective as a combateer (You might, buffed up, come into the same slot as mindblades, rogues, and so forth of 'light warrior') but for blasting you'll always be lacking in actual blasting spells - Rage mage is a 5/10 casting so at level 15 you'll cast as a level 6-7(?).

As to shield versus mage armour, I'd take mage armour if you have to choose (later you could then swap it out for the third level greater mage armour(from CArc)) since importantly it lasts for hours not minutes - very important given the low number of spell slots you have.
And as a personal preference yes, magic missile is very useful, since 1) It's actual effect can be bumped up with the practiced spellcaster feat (From CArc again which helps to keep your caster level intact), and
2) At lower level you have precious few spells, MM can be very useful if facing incorporeal opponents, since its a force effect, as well as the bonus of no to hit roll.
But you can indeed dare to keep you spell for other things to help survival.

As for spell raging, while in theory you should be in touch range in order to go with the ideal of the 'berserker warrior' I'd be wary of that - touch range is AoO range for everyone else, and your casting will trigger those.
Better spells for spell-raging with might be ones with aura effect- those centred on you, dealing effects to those around, as they don't always have to be AoO range, and allow you to be in range to charge in afterwards.

As for tactics - remember you are not mechanically a barabarian, and have little relative survival ability in a full melee, even properly magic'd up - Dr, rage and d12 HD win out, over your rage and normal buffs.
Second, saying that, in the spirit of things, you should be either in the edge combat or close, using spells that take advantage of being close range, without making you too vulnerable.
However since its near-definite at some point the worse will happen, spells like mirror image are your friend, allowing for much enemy confsion and you to get to more advantaneous spots to cast from.

And lastly, level 2 and 3 spells are likely your mainstay. I know you want to stick to rage mage all the way, so it will take a while to get some of those, therefore you should probably rely on defensive option spells with only one or two offensive options spells, so you can stay living. Again spell rage's main prolbem is this: Because of the low casting you will have few spells to use, therefore the ones you do have to count, and since buffs tend to last for well over at least one combat, dispels notwithstanding, those may still be the best, if not the most characterful way to play.

I hope some of the above helps...
The_Shaman
06-25-07, 04:11 PM Sorry, I assumed that my description of the character would have been sufficient to tell you what I was looking for. I want to be able to go into melee combat as a sorcerer. I guess that means that I need to buff myself, and then when I have the spells I want, I rage and hack away. That's the plan for the first while. Later in life, when I can spell rage, I want to know what sorcerer spells, in the schools affected by a spell rage, would be effective choices to blast away, before I get into combat.

At low levels, the kinds of things I'm looking for are mage armor vs. shield discussions. Should I have Magic Missle? Dare I make a sorcerer who doesn't have it?

Okay, the below come with the expectation that you will try to get to some more spells, say level 6 if you can. It might include retraining a few more barbarian levels.

Mage armor is compatible to a twilight mithral shirt. Shield - to a mithral buckler. Both can later be taken out, but initially I think Mage armor is slightly more useful at first due to its longer duration, but later shield can be more useful (especially as you are likely to use a two-handed weapon), particularly with a level or two in Abjurant Champion. As for magic missile - until level 5, at least, there are few reasons to want it (2d6 damage... I am overwhelmed). Later on, maybe... but if you intend to be a barbarian/sorc gish, you must keep in mind what you are NOT doing any time you cast a spell: a full attack with buffs and power attack goodness. I think you might want to focus on versatile spells; you do pure damage well enough.

This is one of the harder choices for any caster, especially one capable of melee: do you go for pure damage, or do you let the melee specialists do that and concentrate on your exclusive field: utility/battlefield control/buffs and nerfs. Even if you want to blast, make sure to keep in mind what you can do with normal attacks and only attack with spells when you can do more that way.

At high levels, (when I can spell rage) I want to know which damage-dealing touch spells are good choices. Should I be in touch range?

In touch range, definitely :D As for damage-dealing touch spells... I am AFB at the moment so I only have the d20srd list, but I do not think it is worth it. Something like Waves of Fatigue seems to be much more useful. Tenser's transformation + rage can be even more useful. Still, saves that do damage without save (and ideally SR) can be worth your slots at times. The orb spells from CArcane seem a good choice for that, and I think there were more touch options. Me, I think Arcane Strike is a good enough way to use your slots, but you should prepare elemental and/or force damage in case you need a little extra.

While it is a strange option, and rather counterintuitive, consider spells that mess up with your casting for the times you are out of spell rages. polymorph (10-headed cryohydra, for example), Tenser's transformation, antimagic field - that kind of thing.
StevenO
06-25-07, 11:40 PM Unless a few houserules are used to edit the Rage Mage the only way I'd consider it is after using Abjurant Champion to get the spellcasting I need. Basically I'd have the minimum number of caster levels.

As for what spells to consider I'd look for long duration buffs, True Strike, and perhaps a utility spell or two. Your magic is not going to be you primary offense so select your spells with that in mind.
Enderlaand
06-26-07, 11:31 AM I plan on actually wearing light or medium armor and taking my chances (and Rage Mage reducing penalties). Does it still make sense to use Mage Armor? I was thinking that if I wear armor, cast shield, and weild a two-handed weapon, I'd be pretty well off. Good AC to offset the penalties from raging, and high damage from a big weapon (greatsword or something).

Thank you for your help and suggestions. I'd really like to make this character work out. I don't really like the spell progression that the Rage Mage offers, but I'm going to live with it for now.

Now, for a different line of questioning. Does the Barbarian really offer anything beyond second level that a gish is going to want. I'm thinking that DR is very nice, but at fairly high levels. Also, the HD is nice. Perhaps instead of taking the PrC just multi-classing is more effective?
The_Shaman
06-27-07, 02:11 AM After lvl ... not much imo, although it is relatively steady. 4 levels give you some trap sense and 1 more rage, 5 - improved uncanny dodge, and after that it is a bit more of the same until 11. For gishes that is not so necessary, although it could be nice. PrCs help by combining decent casting with ok or good BAB, you can go without them (preferably if you play a battle sorcerer - check the UA/SRD, it is a nice option) but I think it is usually better to use them.
Enderlaand
06-29-07, 04:50 PM I looked at that Battle Sorcerer and rejected it. I don't want to take the hit to spells per day and spells known. There are too many spells I'd like to be able to buff myself with.

What I'm looking at using now is this:
I'll wear Mithral armour, to reduce spell failure. I'll not use the Mage armour spell, but use the shield spell.

I'll have Magic Missle, Enlarge Person and Scorching ray. I believe that's all the choices for known spells I get at fourth level.
The_Shaman
06-29-07, 05:58 PM Shouldn't you have another lvl 1 spell from lvl 3?
Enderlaand
06-29-07, 06:43 PM Fourth level Sor has 3. I listed Shield, Magic Missle, and Enlarge Person.
WolfHati
06-30-07, 08:35 PM Once you get higher level, a quickened true strike might be real nice for doing ridiculous power attack charges right off the bat. You will of course need a metamagic rod to do that. Or try to convince your dm that since the text says that quickened spell does not affect spells with greater than a full round cast time and a sorcerer casting a metamagic spell has exactly a full round cast time, that the text saying a sorcerer can't use quickened spell is based on flawed logic and should be ignored.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Enderlaand 06-21-07, 11:45 AM	What spells would you people recommend for the Rage Mage prestige class. I'm going to be playing a Sor/Brb. I'm starting at level 5, but at 7 I'm taking Rage Mage all the way. I just wondered what spells people would take at level 1 and 2 people would suggest. I asked for help in the CO boards and was told not to play the Rage Mage. I say screw them.
The_Shaman 06-21-07, 11:58 AM	Eeeh... buffs, I guess, maybe the odd battlefield control spell. Seriously, I am not a fan of the PrC myself.
RealSorceror 06-21-07, 02:23 PM	What that one spell that turns you into a Warforged Titan? That'd be sweet to rage as one o' them.
The_Shaman 06-21-07, 05:02 PM	I would prefer the one that turns you into an avatar of bahamut or tiamat, myself :D
Enderlaand 06-22-07, 12:31 PM	Okay I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Could you actually name these spells and give me a clue where to find them. I have access to just about every book.
Khael 06-23-07, 02:05 PM	The aspect of tiamat/bahamut spells are in dragon magic, and I think the warforged titan is in spell compendium. However I suspect all three are useless to you as my opinion of the class says the character won't survive to get such high level spells, assuming your game goes up to near epics.. Bear's endurance, mage armour, shield, bull's strength, mirror image... Since the character probably can't be relied on to cast offensively (Poor caster level ratio, and at higher levels the lower grade spell you'll be at likely won't cut it damage wise) buffs like the above, which increase you're survival whether by hps, or AC at spell levels 1-2. But for a better idea for advice: What do you want to do? In detail, since be 'a babarian with magic' isn't the most helpful way to put it across, as you can probably guess.
Enderlaand 06-25-07, 02:39 PM	Sorry, I assumed that my description of the character would have been sufficient to tell you what I was looking for. I want to be able to go into melee combat as a sorcerer. I guess that means that I need to buff myself, and then when I have the spells I want, I rage and hack away. That's the plan for the first while. Later in life, when I can spell rage, I want to know what sorcerer spells, in the schools affected by a spell rage, would be effective choices to blast away, before I get into combat. At low levels, the kinds of things I'm looking for are mage armor vs. shield discussions. Should I have Magic Missle? Dare I make a sorcerer who doesn't have it? At high levels, (when I can spell rage) I want to know which damage-dealing touch spells are good choices. Should I be in touch range? What are some tactics for this class that might work with the spell rage ability?
Khael 06-25-07, 03:57 PM	The problem you'll have is this then: You will never be totally effective as a combateer (You might, buffed up, come into the same slot as mindblades, rogues, and so forth of 'light warrior') but for blasting you'll always be lacking in actual blasting spells - Rage mage is a 5/10 casting so at level 15 you'll cast as a level 6-7(?). As to shield versus mage armour, I'd take mage armour if you have to choose (later you could then swap it out for the third level greater mage armour(from CArc)) since importantly it lasts for hours not minutes - very important given the low number of spell slots you have. And as a personal preference yes, magic missile is very useful, since 1) It's actual effect can be bumped up with the practiced spellcaster feat (From CArc again which helps to keep your caster level intact), and 2) At lower level you have precious few spells, MM can be very useful if facing incorporeal opponents, since its a force effect, as well as the bonus of no to hit roll. But you can indeed dare to keep you spell for other things to help survival. As for spell raging, while in theory you should be in touch range in order to go with the ideal of the 'berserker warrior' I'd be wary of that - touch range is AoO range for everyone else, and your casting will trigger those. Better spells for spell-raging with might be ones with aura effect- those centred on you, dealing effects to those around, as they don't always have to be AoO range, and allow you to be in range to charge in afterwards. As for tactics - remember you are not mechanically a barabarian, and have little relative survival ability in a full melee, even properly magic'd up - Dr, rage and d12 HD win out, over your rage and normal buffs. Second, saying that, in the spirit of things, you should be either in the edge combat or close, using spells that take advantage of being close range, without making you too vulnerable. However since its near-definite at some point the worse will happen, spells like mirror image are your friend, allowing for much enemy confsion and you to get to more advantaneous spots to cast from. And lastly, level 2 and 3 spells are likely your mainstay. I know you want to stick to rage mage all the way, so it will take a while to get some of those, therefore you should probably rely on defensive option spells with only one or two offensive options spells, so you can stay living. Again spell rage's main prolbem is this: Because of the low casting you will have few spells to use, therefore the ones you do have to count, and since buffs tend to last for well over at least one combat, dispels notwithstanding, those may still be the best, if not the most characterful way to play. I hope some of the above helps...
The_Shaman 06-25-07, 04:11 PM	Sorry, I assumed that my description of the character would have been sufficient to tell you what I was looking for. I want to be able to go into melee combat as a sorcerer. I guess that means that I need to buff myself, and then when I have the spells I want, I rage and hack away. That's the plan for the first while. Later in life, when I can spell rage, I want to know what sorcerer spells, in the schools affected by a spell rage, would be effective choices to blast away, before I get into combat. At low levels, the kinds of things I'm looking for are mage armor vs. shield discussions. Should I have Magic Missle? Dare I make a sorcerer who doesn't have it? Okay, the below come with the expectation that you will try to get to some more spells, say level 6 if you can. It might include retraining a few more barbarian levels. Mage armor is compatible to a twilight mithral shirt. Shield - to a mithral buckler. Both can later be taken out, but initially I think Mage armor is slightly more useful at first due to its longer duration, but later shield can be more useful (especially as you are likely to use a two-handed weapon), particularly with a level or two in Abjurant Champion. As for magic missile - until level 5, at least, there are few reasons to want it (2d6 damage... I am overwhelmed). Later on, maybe... but if you intend to be a barbarian/sorc gish, you must keep in mind what you are NOT doing any time you cast a spell: a full attack with buffs and power attack goodness. I think you might want to focus on versatile spells; you do pure damage well enough. This is one of the harder choices for any caster, especially one capable of melee: do you go for pure damage, or do you let the melee specialists do that and concentrate on your exclusive field: utility/battlefield control/buffs and nerfs. Even if you want to blast, make sure to keep in mind what you can do with normal attacks and only attack with spells when you can do more that way. At high levels, (when I can spell rage) I want to know which damage-dealing touch spells are good choices. Should I be in touch range? In touch range, definitely :D As for damage-dealing touch spells... I am AFB at the moment so I only have the d20srd list, but I do not think it is worth it. Something like Waves of Fatigue seems to be much more useful. Tenser's transformation + rage can be even more useful. Still, saves that do damage without save (and ideally SR) can be worth your slots at times. The orb spells from CArcane seem a good choice for that, and I think there were more touch options. Me, I think Arcane Strike is a good enough way to use your slots, but you should prepare elemental and/or force damage in case you need a little extra. While it is a strange option, and rather counterintuitive, consider spells that mess up with your casting for the times you are out of spell rages. polymorph (10-headed cryohydra, for example), Tenser's transformation, antimagic field - that kind of thing.
StevenO 06-25-07, 11:40 PM	Unless a few houserules are used to edit the Rage Mage the only way I'd consider it is after using Abjurant Champion to get the spellcasting I need. Basically I'd have the minimum number of caster levels. As for what spells to consider I'd look for long duration buffs, True Strike, and perhaps a utility spell or two. Your magic is not going to be you primary offense so select your spells with that in mind.
Enderlaand 06-26-07, 11:31 AM	I plan on actually wearing light or medium armor and taking my chances (and Rage Mage reducing penalties). Does it still make sense to use Mage Armor? I was thinking that if I wear armor, cast shield, and weild a two-handed weapon, I'd be pretty well off. Good AC to offset the penalties from raging, and high damage from a big weapon (greatsword or something). Thank you for your help and suggestions. I'd really like to make this character work out. I don't really like the spell progression that the Rage Mage offers, but I'm going to live with it for now. Now, for a different line of questioning. Does the Barbarian really offer anything beyond second level that a gish is going to want. I'm thinking that DR is very nice, but at fairly high levels. Also, the HD is nice. Perhaps instead of taking the PrC just multi-classing is more effective?
The_Shaman 06-27-07, 02:11 AM	After lvl ... not much imo, although it is relatively steady. 4 levels give you some trap sense and 1 more rage, 5 - improved uncanny dodge, and after that it is a bit more of the same until 11. For gishes that is not so necessary, although it could be nice. PrCs help by combining decent casting with ok or good BAB, you can go without them (preferably if you play a battle sorcerer - check the UA/SRD, it is a nice option) but I think it is usually better to use them.
Enderlaand 06-29-07, 04:50 PM	I looked at that Battle Sorcerer and rejected it. I don't want to take the hit to spells per day and spells known. There are too many spells I'd like to be able to buff myself with. What I'm looking at using now is this: I'll wear Mithral armour, to reduce spell failure. I'll not use the Mage armour spell, but use the shield spell. I'll have Magic Missle, Enlarge Person and Scorching ray. I believe that's all the choices for known spells I get at fourth level.
The_Shaman 06-29-07, 05:58 PM	Shouldn't you have another lvl 1 spell from lvl 3?
Enderlaand 06-29-07, 06:43 PM	Fourth level Sor has 3. I listed Shield, Magic Missle, and Enlarge Person.
WolfHati 06-30-07, 08:35 PM	Once you get higher level, a quickened true strike might be real nice for doing ridiculous power attack charges right off the bat. You will of course need a metamagic rod to do that. Or try to convince your dm that since the text says that quickened spell does not affect spells with greater than a full round cast time and a sorcerer casting a metamagic spell has exactly a full round cast time, that the text saying a sorcerer can't use quickened spell is based on flawed logic and should be ignored.