Rage Mage: What's the point? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Rage Mage: What's the point? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Necroramo
08-06-07, 12:39 PM I think I'm missing something.

In exchange for losing a caster level every other level, I get the ability to do a special rage in which I can cast the (weaker) spells that I do know as if my caster level were my character level, and get a penalty to AC.

Is there any reason why I should take this class in lieu of a standard spellcasting class, as the latter would secure the bonus of a spell rage and have a vastly superior spells known/per day? For the 10% ASF negation I could take a level of spellsword, and sacred exorcist grants the average BAB and full progression of spells
Legdiwena
08-06-07, 01:45 PM What book is Rage Mage from?
TheMonk
08-06-07, 01:48 PM What book is Rage Mage from?

It's from complete warrior.

Just be a spellsword, now THAT is damn powerful character.
arderkrag
08-06-07, 03:32 PM I've never cared for them either - they, like many prestige classes, seem to be filler material. We play with a house rule that they can cast anything they would be able to cast out of rage. But yes, the spellsword is far superior.
Jaxgaret
08-06-07, 04:40 PM The Rage Mage, as printed, is very weak as a caster PrC.

However, as a general class, it is balanced. Compared to a straight melee build, a Rage Mage will do just fine.

I personally recommend that a PC that wants a Rage Mage flavored character use the Wild Mage PrC and change the flavor to being rage-based rather than chaos-based. The class itself may need one or two minor crunch modifications as well.
navar100
08-06-07, 07:34 PM The Rage Mage is obviously there for the barbarian/spellcaster multiclass. It allows casting of spells in a rage which you normally cannot do. The prestige class exists for flavor. If someone really, really wants to play a barbarian/spellcaster, this prestige class is for that person.

When multiclassing with any spellcaster, it's important to remember you are not a spellcaster. You are your other class that uses spells to augment. If you continue to think of yourself as a spellcaster, you will lose yourself in perceived powerlessness. However, if you think of yourself as your other class but with some spells, you are able to see your character for the strengths it does have.
ArgulFraster
08-06-07, 07:57 PM My opinion:

Rage Mage would make a better Metal Slug style brawler than a class.

Imagine the 1337ness that would result from crossing Metal Slug and D&D.
StevenO
08-07-07, 12:38 AM To me the simple act of giving the Rage Mage a full BAB would go a long way towards making it playable. Without that change it really doesn't offer enough compared to even the Spellsword found in the same book.
Jaxgaret
08-07-07, 12:39 AM To me the simple act of giving the Rage Mage a full BAB would go a long way towards making it playable. Without that change it really doesn't offer enough compared to even the Spellsword found in the same book.

Give it full BAB and d12 HD!

Good Fort and Will saves too :)
runestar
08-07-07, 02:05 AM And full spellcasting while you are at it...;)
Jaxgaret
08-07-07, 05:24 PM And full spellcasting while you are at it...;)

Now that's more like it.
StevenO
08-07-07, 08:50 PM Give it full BAB and d12 HD!

Good Fort and Will saves too :)

And full spellcasting while you are at it...;)

So if the Rage Mage had full BAB, a d12 HD, all Good Saves, full casting, AND all its normal abilities it could be considered acceptable? That would be a little much.

As a Barbarian/arcanist class just having a full BAB would make it much more attractive. If that wasn't enough perhaps allowing casting during a normal rage (with the same restrictions as during a spell rage) would help.
arderkrag
08-07-07, 09:13 PM (snippity doom) That would be a little much.

You've never seen the Local Hero class, have you? I love the class, but it's insane. Not overpowered, IMHO, but it would whip at lot of other classes.
Genetic
08-08-07, 09:32 AM Rage mage... a very fun-looking class. Not all that powerful, but still hilariously awesome.

In order to fix the rage mage, I've considered giving it 7/10 spellcasting (rather than 5/10) and making spell rage activate whenever you go into a normal rage. So instead of having two separate rages, you have only one.
Wolf_Boy
08-09-07, 11:38 PM I had a very effective kick butt npc Neanderthal sorcerer/barbarian rage mage, and I don't remember how I did it. He was mostly a very smart barbarian (which caught people a bit by surprise), who used his bluff skill to convince people that he was otherwise, come to think of it, I think it was more how he was played than the class itself. When the big dumb barbarian goes into a rage and blindsides you with a spell, it can be a bit cunfuzzling.
rone_leah
08-11-07, 12:29 AM I would not change spell rage for the world, but I use the spell rage for bear warrior and rage again for added stat boosts.:D

Barbarian3/wizard6/rage mage10/bear warrior1, is just fun.
redraven
08-11-07, 08:35 PM I had a Barbarian/Sorcerer/Rage Mage character in a epic gestalt game once. He was pretty sick, but at the time the DM allowed me to level up with Rage Mage as a gestalt character (which is something you're not supposed to do), so I was getting Barbarian levels on the Rage Mage levels that granted spells, and Sorcerer levels on Rage Mage levels without. Even without that bit of cheese, I still think Rage Mage is a bit better than most people are giving credit for.

For starters, you have to be Barbarian 1 at least, which gives Rage and Fast Movement. If you take Extended Rage, both your normal and Spell Rages last 5 rounds longer than normal, which should cover the length of the encounter. Second, the Spell Rage allows you to cast spells from certain schools as if you had Practiced Spellcaster for free (better actually, since there is no +4 limit). Third, the free 4th level spell should not be discounted either - it can be an Orb spell (CL = character level, +2/+4 to save DC), an Enervation, or Polymorph into a War Troll (which is raging, is a Barbarian, and has all your normal gear).

Finally, I do not think Rage Mage should be compared to a full caster or to an Eldritch Knight or anything like that. What the Rage Mage does is give the Barbarian a significant power boost in a variety of situations. Now the Barbarian has some options against foes at long ranges, can buff himself, and most importantly: absolutely break the Arcane Strike feat. If you thought a raging Barbarian was scary before, now you have to deal with a quickened Polymorph Barbarian that is sacrificing his ample spell slots to get, say, an extra +3 to attack and 3d4 damage (which the +3 can be siphoned into Power Attack for +6 damage instead) on every single one of his attacks in the round. That's what my epic gestalt character above routinely did: quicken Orb of Force, Shapechange into a Titan, move into melee and then later keep sacrificing 8th-level spell slots to Arcane Strike.

Needless to say, he was hit with the nerf stick pretty quick afterwards, but it was fun while it lasted.
archerpwr
08-11-07, 08:42 PM snip

All of which could be done better with a standard gish prestige class. Rage mage is *quite* underpowered.
redraven
08-11-07, 09:12 PM All of which could be done better with a standard gish prestige class. Rage mage is *quite* underpowered.
Finally, I do not think Rage Mage should be compared to a full caster or to an Eldritch Knight or anything like that. What the Rage Mage does is give the Barbarian a significant power boost in a variety of situations.
It has been a while since I perused the CharOp boards, but last time I looked there were no gish builds with Barbarians because Barbarians cannot cast spells while raging. Perhaps I am mistaken?
StevenO
08-12-07, 08:22 PM Using a level of Barbarian in a Gish build has always been an option. You don't get the fighter's bonus feat or armor proficiencies but you'd have a couple more skill points to spend, another hp on average, and fast movement which is always nice.

The abilities on the Rage Mage are nice but you can qualify for the Abjurant Champion just as easily and don't lose the BAB. Maybe 3/4 BAB is justifiable but if the Rage Mage was full BAB it would be much more attractive. You may not max out the Rage Mage but Barbarian5/Caster1/AbC5/RageMageX isn't too bad.
doink1212
08-14-07, 04:19 PM I think I'm missing something.

In exchange for losing a caster level every other level, I get the ability to do a special rage in which I can cast the (weaker) spells that I do know as if my caster level were my character level, and get a penalty to AC.

Is there any reason why I should take this class in lieu of a standard spellcasting class, as the latter would secure the bonus of a spell rage and have a vastly superior spells known/per day? For the 10% ASF negation I could take a level of spellsword, and sacred exorcist grants the average BAB and full progression of spells

There is a very easy answer. Lvl dip Rage Mage so you can have your Barbarian actually function in any number of humorous classes. My personal favorite is barbarian / trapsmith / swiftblade (with a lvl or two in rage mage)

This is certainly not a spellcaster, but a barbarian with insane movement who travels about the battlefield dispatching enemies with extreme prejudice.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Necroramo 08-06-07, 12:39 PM	I think I'm missing something. In exchange for losing a caster level every other level, I get the ability to do a special rage in which I can cast the (weaker) spells that I do know as if my caster level were my character level, and get a penalty to AC. Is there any reason why I should take this class in lieu of a standard spellcasting class, as the latter would secure the bonus of a spell rage and have a vastly superior spells known/per day? For the 10% ASF negation I could take a level of spellsword, and sacred exorcist grants the average BAB and full progression of spells
Legdiwena 08-06-07, 01:45 PM	What book is Rage Mage from?
TheMonk 08-06-07, 01:48 PM	What book is Rage Mage from? It's from complete warrior. Just be a spellsword, now THAT is damn powerful character.
arderkrag 08-06-07, 03:32 PM	I've never cared for them either - they, like many prestige classes, seem to be filler material. We play with a house rule that they can cast anything they would be able to cast out of rage. But yes, the spellsword is far superior.
Jaxgaret 08-06-07, 04:40 PM	The Rage Mage, as printed, is very weak as a caster PrC. However, as a general class, it is balanced. Compared to a straight melee build, a Rage Mage will do just fine. I personally recommend that a PC that wants a Rage Mage flavored character use the Wild Mage PrC and change the flavor to being rage-based rather than chaos-based. The class itself may need one or two minor crunch modifications as well.
navar100 08-06-07, 07:34 PM	The Rage Mage is obviously there for the barbarian/spellcaster multiclass. It allows casting of spells in a rage which you normally cannot do. The prestige class exists for flavor. If someone really, really wants to play a barbarian/spellcaster, this prestige class is for that person. When multiclassing with any spellcaster, it's important to remember you are not a spellcaster. You are your other class that uses spells to augment. If you continue to think of yourself as a spellcaster, you will lose yourself in perceived powerlessness. However, if you think of yourself as your other class but with some spells, you are able to see your character for the strengths it does have.
ArgulFraster 08-06-07, 07:57 PM	My opinion: Rage Mage would make a better Metal Slug style brawler than a class. Imagine the 1337ness that would result from crossing Metal Slug and D&D.
StevenO 08-07-07, 12:38 AM	To me the simple act of giving the Rage Mage a full BAB would go a long way towards making it playable. Without that change it really doesn't offer enough compared to even the Spellsword found in the same book.
Jaxgaret 08-07-07, 12:39 AM	To me the simple act of giving the Rage Mage a full BAB would go a long way towards making it playable. Without that change it really doesn't offer enough compared to even the Spellsword found in the same book. Give it full BAB and d12 HD! Good Fort and Will saves too :)
runestar 08-07-07, 02:05 AM	And full spellcasting while you are at it...;)
Jaxgaret 08-07-07, 05:24 PM	And full spellcasting while you are at it...;) Now that's more like it.
StevenO 08-07-07, 08:50 PM	Give it full BAB and d12 HD! Good Fort and Will saves too :) And full spellcasting while you are at it...;) So if the Rage Mage had full BAB, a d12 HD, all Good Saves, full casting, AND all its normal abilities it could be considered acceptable? That would be a little much. As a Barbarian/arcanist class just having a full BAB would make it much more attractive. If that wasn't enough perhaps allowing casting during a normal rage (with the same restrictions as during a spell rage) would help.
arderkrag 08-07-07, 09:13 PM	(snippity doom) That would be a little much. You've never seen the Local Hero class, have you? I love the class, but it's insane. Not overpowered, IMHO, but it would whip at lot of other classes.
Genetic 08-08-07, 09:32 AM	Rage mage... a very fun-looking class. Not all that powerful, but still hilariously awesome. In order to fix the rage mage, I've considered giving it 7/10 spellcasting (rather than 5/10) and making spell rage activate whenever you go into a normal rage. So instead of having two separate rages, you have only one.
Wolf_Boy 08-09-07, 11:38 PM	I had a very effective kick butt npc Neanderthal sorcerer/barbarian rage mage, and I don't remember how I did it. He was mostly a very smart barbarian (which caught people a bit by surprise), who used his bluff skill to convince people that he was otherwise, come to think of it, I think it was more how he was played than the class itself. When the big dumb barbarian goes into a rage and blindsides you with a spell, it can be a bit cunfuzzling.
rone_leah 08-11-07, 12:29 AM	I would not change spell rage for the world, but I use the spell rage for bear warrior and rage again for added stat boosts.:D Barbarian3/wizard6/rage mage10/bear warrior1, is just fun.
redraven 08-11-07, 08:35 PM	I had a Barbarian/Sorcerer/Rage Mage character in a epic gestalt game once. He was pretty sick, but at the time the DM allowed me to level up with Rage Mage as a gestalt character (which is something you're not supposed to do), so I was getting Barbarian levels on the Rage Mage levels that granted spells, and Sorcerer levels on Rage Mage levels without. Even without that bit of cheese, I still think Rage Mage is a bit better than most people are giving credit for. For starters, you have to be Barbarian 1 at least, which gives Rage and Fast Movement. If you take Extended Rage, both your normal and Spell Rages last 5 rounds longer than normal, which should cover the length of the encounter. Second, the Spell Rage allows you to cast spells from certain schools as if you had Practiced Spellcaster for free (better actually, since there is no +4 limit). Third, the free 4th level spell should not be discounted either - it can be an Orb spell (CL = character level, +2/+4 to save DC), an Enervation, or Polymorph into a War Troll (which is raging, is a Barbarian, and has all your normal gear). Finally, I do not think Rage Mage should be compared to a full caster or to an Eldritch Knight or anything like that. What the Rage Mage does is give the Barbarian a significant power boost in a variety of situations. Now the Barbarian has some options against foes at long ranges, can buff himself, and most importantly: absolutely break the Arcane Strike feat. If you thought a raging Barbarian was scary before, now you have to deal with a quickened Polymorph Barbarian that is sacrificing his ample spell slots to get, say, an extra +3 to attack and 3d4 damage (which the +3 can be siphoned into Power Attack for +6 damage instead) on every single one of his attacks in the round. That's what my epic gestalt character above routinely did: quicken Orb of Force, Shapechange into a Titan, move into melee and then later keep sacrificing 8th-level spell slots to Arcane Strike. Needless to say, he was hit with the nerf stick pretty quick afterwards, but it was fun while it lasted.
archerpwr 08-11-07, 08:42 PM	snip All of which could be done better with a standard gish prestige class. Rage mage is quite underpowered.
redraven 08-11-07, 09:12 PM	All of which could be done better with a standard gish prestige class. Rage mage is quite underpowered. Finally, I do not think Rage Mage should be compared to a full caster or to an Eldritch Knight or anything like that. What the Rage Mage does is give the Barbarian a significant power boost in a variety of situations. It has been a while since I perused the CharOp boards, but last time I looked there were no gish builds with Barbarians because Barbarians cannot cast spells while raging. Perhaps I am mistaken?
StevenO 08-12-07, 08:22 PM	Using a level of Barbarian in a Gish build has always been an option. You don't get the fighter's bonus feat or armor proficiencies but you'd have a couple more skill points to spend, another hp on average, and fast movement which is always nice. The abilities on the Rage Mage are nice but you can qualify for the Abjurant Champion just as easily and don't lose the BAB. Maybe 3/4 BAB is justifiable but if the Rage Mage was full BAB it would be much more attractive. You may not max out the Rage Mage but Barbarian5/Caster1/AbC5/RageMageX isn't too bad.
doink1212 08-14-07, 04:19 PM	I think I'm missing something. In exchange for losing a caster level every other level, I get the ability to do a special rage in which I can cast the (weaker) spells that I do know as if my caster level were my character level, and get a penalty to AC. Is there any reason why I should take this class in lieu of a standard spellcasting class, as the latter would secure the bonus of a spell rage and have a vastly superior spells known/per day? For the 10% ASF negation I could take a level of spellsword, and sacred exorcist grants the average BAB and full progression of spells There is a very easy answer. Lvl dip Rage Mage so you can have your Barbarian actually function in any number of humorous classes. My personal favorite is barbarian / trapsmith / swiftblade (with a lvl or two in rage mage) This is certainly not a spellcaster, but a barbarian with insane movement who travels about the battlefield dispatching enemies with extreme prejudice.