Rogues? what is your favorite and how did you make it [Archive] - Wizards Community

Rogues? what is your favorite and how did you make it [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Xynai
10-14-07, 11:41 PM What was your favorite rogue style prestige class, and did you think that it needed any variations to it?
j3st3r
10-15-07, 08:01 AM Invisible Blade is good, but it needs tweaking since it has some oddities. Even the original author, Kolja Liquette, thinks that the editors left it unfinished:

"To use the printed version of the invisible blade as is, simply change the prerequisites feats to Weapon Focus (dagger, kukri, or punching dagger) and Weapon Finesse."

There's also original 10 level version of the Invisible Blade converted to 3.5 edition in Kolja's Site (http://www.wakinglands.com/htm_files/the_prestige_classes_page.htm).

Also assassin is an excellent PrC. The spells will give the rogue nice boost (e.g. options to his sneak/death attacks and help him to be unnoticeable).

I've always wanted to try out a changeling rogue (with racial substitution levels) and Dark Lantern PrC and maybe adding Warshaper PrC to the mix.
Xynai
10-15-07, 03:34 PM Well what do you think of trapmasters i mean I believe that it would be a good thought but you know I am still undecided what I like cause there are so many choice of what I could be for example a vengeance executioner or a shadowdancer there are so many choices that I can't think straight when I try to figure it out and thats why I posted this thread is because I wanted to see what others thoughts were and what they liked cause then it could make it easier on me
Operation_Shoestring
10-17-07, 02:16 AM Honestly, Multi-classing with Swashbuckler and getting Daring Outlaw > most rogue prestige classes.

The exceptions that come to mind are Perfect Wight and Assassin, but the former is Epic level, and TMK, has not been reworked for 3.5 yet, and the latter requires you to be non-good, which makes me sad.
Xynai
10-17-07, 02:31 AM All I want though is to be able to dodge alot and be really fast but unlike alot of my friends that I play with I am Lawful Evil so what would you say I should be cause I really have no ideas and considering I am only lvl two with this character I believe that I should do something different with it than become a scout or a plain rogue
bkdubs123
10-17-07, 03:00 AM I'd say a good bet for you then is to take a few levels of Swashbuckler, pick up the Daring Outlaw feat and then eventually grab Dodge, Mobility, and Elusive Target.

Dodging a lot and moving really fast. Start with a high Dexterity. From there you might want to have a look at the Dervish PrC. It would have synergized better with the Scout class, but a Rogue/Swashbuckler ought to find a home here too. I can't think of any other non-monk classes that grant a bonus to speed offhand, so hopefully someone else will have a better suggestion. It probably wouldn't be terrible for you to take the standard Assassin after a few levels in Swashbuckler. Something like Rogue 3/Swash 7/Assassin 10 wouldn't be terrible at all. You'd have all the dodgyness you'd want, along with solid sneak attack damage, and your land speed would still be normal but with the spells you pick up from Assassin you can bolster that.
Operation_Shoestring
10-17-07, 03:14 AM Barbarian gives you fast movement. if you can fit in barb 1 without nuking your multi-classing due to EXP penalties, it's actually quite useful, especially if you swap rage for whirling frenzy.
Phelf_Der_Zemit
10-18-07, 09:59 PM A very powerful PrC when applied correctly is the Master Thrower, with a trip attack, double sneak attack, and only a touch attack away. Thats alot of damage to a prone opponent.
j3st3r
10-19-07, 07:32 AM A very powerful PrC when applied correctly is the Master Thrower, with a trip attack, double sneak attack, and only a touch attack away. Thats alot of damage to a prone opponent.

Double sneak attack? Are you referring to doubletoss? Because that isn't automatically a sneak attack and you have to throw the attacks separately like normally when fighting with two weapons.

Or are you perhaps referring to Sneaky Shot + Palm Throw? In errata it says that The master thrower’s palm throw ability counts as a volley attack, and only one instance of precision-based damage applies to the attack roll.
Phelf_Der_Zemit
10-19-07, 03:43 PM darn. *shuffles through papers* hm.. woops, jsut dont tell my DM. I was going with palm toss, but still theres no dening the power of master thrower when applied correctly.
zopzop
10-21-07, 07:32 PM 3 Paladin/3 Rogue/10 Skullclan Hunter/4 Rogue. The Skullclan Hunter PrC gives the rogue incredible immunities (disease, paralysis, energy drain, ability damage, ability drain, fear (undead only) and abilities (permanent protection from evil, all weapons you wield count as ghost touched, penetrate all undead DR, and full sneak attack vs undead even if you are not flanking). IMHO there is no other "roguish" PrC that compares.
eleyas
10-21-07, 11:49 PM 5 druid/5 rogue/10 silver dragon disciple
i know at first it sounds odd, but think about it druids shape changing helps for sneak attack and also gets you spells required for dragon disciple, and if you go silver for dragon D. you get the ability to walk on and make your own clouds.
plain
11-04-07, 05:52 PM I love to spice the rogue up with some levels of Thief acrobat..
Just the first level of the prestige class gives you a lot of benefits..
Balance and tumble at full speed, climb at half speed, stand up from prone as a free action that doesn't provoke AoOs, and finally your not considered flat footed while balancing or climbing..

:cheer:
Case
11-05-07, 01:28 PM Just wanted to echo what some previous posters have said:

My current character is Rogue 3/Swash 2. I'll get Daring Outlaw with Rogue 3/Swash 3 (and I can add Int bonus to Damage).

I'm heavily Int/Dex based and the character has turned into a tumbling, TWF, TWD, sneak attacking monkey. Combine with the Thief-Acrobat PrC that I'll take at 7th level and I'll easily be able to tumble through enemy squares at full movement. I can't wait.
Khazzan
11-06-07, 10:05 PM Just wanted to echo what some previous posters have said:

My current character is Rogue 3/Swash 2. I'll get Daring Outlaw with Rogue 3/Swash 3 (and I can add Int bonus to Damage).

I'm heavily Int/Dex based and the character has turned into a tumbling, TWF, TWD, sneak attacking monkey. Combine with the Thief-Acrobat PrC that I'll take at 7th level and I'll easily be able to tumble through enemy squares at full movement. I can't wait.

I can't remember the Daring Outlaw PrC.... What book is this from?

Thanks.
Kurama Youko
11-07-07, 03:09 AM Ninja 7/Soldier of Light 10/Exotic Weapon Master 3
Ninja 7/Justicar of Taiia 10/Exotic Weapon Master 3
Ninja 4/Monk 4/Sword of Righteousness 2/Slayer of Domiel 10/

you can also sub out the Exotic Weapon Master levels for 3 levels of master thrower if you have the qualifying feats.. with shurikens as the ideal weapons to be thrown.
Masakari4488
11-07-07, 03:41 PM I can't remember the Daring Outlaw PrC.... What book is this from?

Thanks.

Daring Outlaw is a feat from Complete Scoundrel I believe. It lets Swashy and Rogue levels stack for Rogue sneak attack progression and I think Swashy dodge bonus progression.
1 ton ghost
11-08-07, 11:27 AM i am partial to the plain vanilla assassin. SA is your bread and butter as a rogue type, getting to Imp. Uncanny Dodge faster is always good, Death Attack is always a nice wildcard, and the spell list is totally decent.

-push for highest Int possible given the skill drop to 4+int. no biggie
-human, cuz' of the feat and extra ranks
-max Disable, Bluff, Hide, Move S, sometimes Tumble
-acquire cheap skill scoundrel items; partial to Hats of Disguise, Handy Haversacks, any gloves, etc. etc.
-swap Trap Sense for Penetrating Strike (Dungeonscape; i love this one, some argue it's broken though. maybe. 1/2 SA dice to creatures normally immue)
-watch the Will and Fort saves though. i often argue that necropolitan rogues are terribly deadly for this reason. consider: darkvision (more SA's vs. normies), no fatigue, d12 vs. d6 even w/out Con is a good trade, hardly any Fort or Will saves are an issue anymore and Reflex is damn high already (and then there's Evasion). well worth the 1 lvl loss.
teshen
11-12-07, 11:50 AM (Grey) Elf Rogue 1/(Elven) Wizard 3/Rogue 1/Unseen Seer 1-8
Throw in levels of Arcane trickster and/or Spellwarp sniper for more ray spell + sneak attack goodness. Adding divination spells like Eyes of the Hunter would compensate for the lost sneak attack and net you more at latter levels.

Picking up the reserve feat Summon Elemental at later levels could be useful to gain flanking or other things...

I built a whisper gnome rogue/wizard around this same concept [(wilderness) rogue 1/wizard 3/rogue 1/unseen seer 4] before the game wrapped up and it was pretty fun. Between intelligence being primary and the rogue's 8+ and the unseen seer's 6+ skill points per level he was alright at a lot of things and the things he wasn't he could shore up with spells.

It may not be the strongest, but it was useful and versatile.
Apupunchau
11-12-07, 01:31 PM My longest played rogue was a Drow rogue in a 2+ year forgotten realms campaign. He started out lawful evil and slowly (and I mean slowly) shifted one alignment at a time to Chaotic Good. He search was for himself as he wanted nothing to do with his father and in the search he found religion first as a worshiper of Thoth and then as a worshiper of Elistreaa (sp?). Anyway to the point he ended up being a divine seeker and I think that was one of the most fun Prcs I've played for a rogue.

The other I haven't played yet but theoretically it should work out well. Halfling Rogue 4/Fighter 2/ Master Thrower 5/Whisperknife 9. I really like the Whisperkinfe Prc I just whish their was a way to get into master thrower by level 5 instead of level 6. Halfling rogue substitution levels add a bit more oomph to the throwing knives.
CantripN
11-12-07, 02:11 PM Another vote for Daring Outlaw (no PrC, except maybe a level in Master of Masks).

My favourite Rogue: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pF0ot4ctjMPiOxTukK_2Udw
Marcus Majarra
11-12-07, 06:54 PM My favorite rogue is the one I'm currently playing in the Xen'drik Expeditions RPGA campaign. He's a changeling rogue expert on knowledge of all kinds. With Education, Knowledge Devotion, and changeling rogue substitution levels (as well as a few other Crimson Codex benefits), he knows everything about everything and feels ready for just about any situation. I'm considering taking a few levels of Master Inquisitive as well.
GhostSound
11-14-07, 07:30 PM Daring Outlaw is a feat from Complete Scoundrel I believe. It lets Swashy and Rogue levels stack for Rogue sneak attack progression and I think Swashy dodge bonus progression.
Grace progression, which is their class bonus to Reflex Saves. Very nice when you add Evasion to the equation (I'm a poet and I didn't know it).
Cartigan
11-15-07, 11:33 AM All I want though is to be able to dodge alot
Given the fact that 'dodging' is just a notion in pen & paper, and is based on Dexterity bonuses, there is no reason to prestige to "dodge alot." Though you could prestige into Duelist for Int to AC or multi into Swashbuckler for Daring Outlaw and it's Dodge-like class feature.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xynai 10-14-07, 11:41 PM	What was your favorite rogue style prestige class, and did you think that it needed any variations to it?
j3st3r 10-15-07, 08:01 AM	Invisible Blade is good, but it needs tweaking since it has some oddities. Even the original author, Kolja Liquette, thinks that the editors left it unfinished: "To use the printed version of the invisible blade as is, simply change the prerequisites feats to Weapon Focus (dagger, kukri, or punching dagger) and Weapon Finesse." There's also original 10 level version of the Invisible Blade converted to 3.5 edition in Kolja's Site (http://www.wakinglands.com/htm_files/the_prestige_classes_page.htm). Also assassin is an excellent PrC. The spells will give the rogue nice boost (e.g. options to his sneak/death attacks and help him to be unnoticeable). I've always wanted to try out a changeling rogue (with racial substitution levels) and Dark Lantern PrC and maybe adding Warshaper PrC to the mix.
Xynai 10-15-07, 03:34 PM	Well what do you think of trapmasters i mean I believe that it would be a good thought but you know I am still undecided what I like cause there are so many choice of what I could be for example a vengeance executioner or a shadowdancer there are so many choices that I can't think straight when I try to figure it out and thats why I posted this thread is because I wanted to see what others thoughts were and what they liked cause then it could make it easier on me
Operation_Shoestring 10-17-07, 02:16 AM	Honestly, Multi-classing with Swashbuckler and getting Daring Outlaw > most rogue prestige classes. The exceptions that come to mind are Perfect Wight and Assassin, but the former is Epic level, and TMK, has not been reworked for 3.5 yet, and the latter requires you to be non-good, which makes me sad.
Xynai 10-17-07, 02:31 AM	All I want though is to be able to dodge alot and be really fast but unlike alot of my friends that I play with I am Lawful Evil so what would you say I should be cause I really have no ideas and considering I am only lvl two with this character I believe that I should do something different with it than become a scout or a plain rogue
bkdubs123 10-17-07, 03:00 AM	I'd say a good bet for you then is to take a few levels of Swashbuckler, pick up the Daring Outlaw feat and then eventually grab Dodge, Mobility, and Elusive Target. Dodging a lot and moving really fast. Start with a high Dexterity. From there you might want to have a look at the Dervish PrC. It would have synergized better with the Scout class, but a Rogue/Swashbuckler ought to find a home here too. I can't think of any other non-monk classes that grant a bonus to speed offhand, so hopefully someone else will have a better suggestion. It probably wouldn't be terrible for you to take the standard Assassin after a few levels in Swashbuckler. Something like Rogue 3/Swash 7/Assassin 10 wouldn't be terrible at all. You'd have all the dodgyness you'd want, along with solid sneak attack damage, and your land speed would still be normal but with the spells you pick up from Assassin you can bolster that.
Operation_Shoestring 10-17-07, 03:14 AM	Barbarian gives you fast movement. if you can fit in barb 1 without nuking your multi-classing due to EXP penalties, it's actually quite useful, especially if you swap rage for whirling frenzy.
Phelf_Der_Zemit 10-18-07, 09:59 PM	A very powerful PrC when applied correctly is the Master Thrower, with a trip attack, double sneak attack, and only a touch attack away. Thats alot of damage to a prone opponent.
j3st3r 10-19-07, 07:32 AM	A very powerful PrC when applied correctly is the Master Thrower, with a trip attack, double sneak attack, and only a touch attack away. Thats alot of damage to a prone opponent. Double sneak attack? Are you referring to doubletoss? Because that isn't automatically a sneak attack and you have to throw the attacks separately like normally when fighting with two weapons. Or are you perhaps referring to Sneaky Shot + Palm Throw? In errata it says that The master thrower’s palm throw ability counts as a volley attack, and only one instance of precision-based damage applies to the attack roll.
Phelf_Der_Zemit 10-19-07, 03:43 PM	darn. shuffles through papers hm.. woops, jsut dont tell my DM. I was going with palm toss, but still theres no dening the power of master thrower when applied correctly.
zopzop 10-21-07, 07:32 PM	3 Paladin/3 Rogue/10 Skullclan Hunter/4 Rogue. The Skullclan Hunter PrC gives the rogue incredible immunities (disease, paralysis, energy drain, ability damage, ability drain, fear (undead only) and abilities (permanent protection from evil, all weapons you wield count as ghost touched, penetrate all undead DR, and full sneak attack vs undead even if you are not flanking). IMHO there is no other "roguish" PrC that compares.
eleyas 10-21-07, 11:49 PM	5 druid/5 rogue/10 silver dragon disciple i know at first it sounds odd, but think about it druids shape changing helps for sneak attack and also gets you spells required for dragon disciple, and if you go silver for dragon D. you get the ability to walk on and make your own clouds.
plain 11-04-07, 05:52 PM	I love to spice the rogue up with some levels of Thief acrobat.. Just the first level of the prestige class gives you a lot of benefits.. Balance and tumble at full speed, climb at half speed, stand up from prone as a free action that doesn't provoke AoOs, and finally your not considered flat footed while balancing or climbing.. :cheer:
Case 11-05-07, 01:28 PM	Just wanted to echo what some previous posters have said: My current character is Rogue 3/Swash 2. I'll get Daring Outlaw with Rogue 3/Swash 3 (and I can add Int bonus to Damage). I'm heavily Int/Dex based and the character has turned into a tumbling, TWF, TWD, sneak attacking monkey. Combine with the Thief-Acrobat PrC that I'll take at 7th level and I'll easily be able to tumble through enemy squares at full movement. I can't wait.
Khazzan 11-06-07, 10:05 PM	Just wanted to echo what some previous posters have said: My current character is Rogue 3/Swash 2. I'll get Daring Outlaw with Rogue 3/Swash 3 (and I can add Int bonus to Damage). I'm heavily Int/Dex based and the character has turned into a tumbling, TWF, TWD, sneak attacking monkey. Combine with the Thief-Acrobat PrC that I'll take at 7th level and I'll easily be able to tumble through enemy squares at full movement. I can't wait. I can't remember the Daring Outlaw PrC.... What book is this from? Thanks.
Kurama Youko 11-07-07, 03:09 AM	Ninja 7/Soldier of Light 10/Exotic Weapon Master 3 Ninja 7/Justicar of Taiia 10/Exotic Weapon Master 3 Ninja 4/Monk 4/Sword of Righteousness 2/Slayer of Domiel 10/ you can also sub out the Exotic Weapon Master levels for 3 levels of master thrower if you have the qualifying feats.. with shurikens as the ideal weapons to be thrown.
Masakari4488 11-07-07, 03:41 PM	I can't remember the Daring Outlaw PrC.... What book is this from? Thanks. Daring Outlaw is a feat from Complete Scoundrel I believe. It lets Swashy and Rogue levels stack for Rogue sneak attack progression and I think Swashy dodge bonus progression.
1 ton ghost 11-08-07, 11:27 AM	i am partial to the plain vanilla assassin. SA is your bread and butter as a rogue type, getting to Imp. Uncanny Dodge faster is always good, Death Attack is always a nice wildcard, and the spell list is totally decent. -push for highest Int possible given the skill drop to 4+int. no biggie -human, cuz' of the feat and extra ranks -max Disable, Bluff, Hide, Move S, sometimes Tumble -acquire cheap skill scoundrel items; partial to Hats of Disguise, Handy Haversacks, any gloves, etc. etc. -swap Trap Sense for Penetrating Strike (Dungeonscape; i love this one, some argue it's broken though. maybe. 1/2 SA dice to creatures normally immue) -watch the Will and Fort saves though. i often argue that necropolitan rogues are terribly deadly for this reason. consider: darkvision (more SA's vs. normies), no fatigue, d12 vs. d6 even w/out Con is a good trade, hardly any Fort or Will saves are an issue anymore and Reflex is damn high already (and then there's Evasion). well worth the 1 lvl loss.
teshen 11-12-07, 11:50 AM	(Grey) Elf Rogue 1/(Elven) Wizard 3/Rogue 1/Unseen Seer 1-8 Throw in levels of Arcane trickster and/or Spellwarp sniper for more ray spell + sneak attack goodness. Adding divination spells like Eyes of the Hunter would compensate for the lost sneak attack and net you more at latter levels. Picking up the reserve feat Summon Elemental at later levels could be useful to gain flanking or other things... I built a whisper gnome rogue/wizard around this same concept [(wilderness) rogue 1/wizard 3/rogue 1/unseen seer 4] before the game wrapped up and it was pretty fun. Between intelligence being primary and the rogue's 8+ and the unseen seer's 6+ skill points per level he was alright at a lot of things and the things he wasn't he could shore up with spells. It may not be the strongest, but it was useful and versatile.
Apupunchau 11-12-07, 01:31 PM	My longest played rogue was a Drow rogue in a 2+ year forgotten realms campaign. He started out lawful evil and slowly (and I mean slowly) shifted one alignment at a time to Chaotic Good. He search was for himself as he wanted nothing to do with his father and in the search he found religion first as a worshiper of Thoth and then as a worshiper of Elistreaa (sp?). Anyway to the point he ended up being a divine seeker and I think that was one of the most fun Prcs I've played for a rogue. The other I haven't played yet but theoretically it should work out well. Halfling Rogue 4/Fighter 2/ Master Thrower 5/Whisperknife 9. I really like the Whisperkinfe Prc I just whish their was a way to get into master thrower by level 5 instead of level 6. Halfling rogue substitution levels add a bit more oomph to the throwing knives.
CantripN 11-12-07, 02:11 PM	Another vote for Daring Outlaw (no PrC, except maybe a level in Master of Masks). My favourite Rogue: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pF0ot4ctjMPiOxTukK_2Udw
Marcus Majarra 11-12-07, 06:54 PM	My favorite rogue is the one I'm currently playing in the Xen'drik Expeditions RPGA campaign. He's a changeling rogue expert on knowledge of all kinds. With Education, Knowledge Devotion, and changeling rogue substitution levels (as well as a few other Crimson Codex benefits), he knows everything about everything and feels ready for just about any situation. I'm considering taking a few levels of Master Inquisitive as well.
GhostSound 11-14-07, 07:30 PM	Daring Outlaw is a feat from Complete Scoundrel I believe. It lets Swashy and Rogue levels stack for Rogue sneak attack progression and I think Swashy dodge bonus progression. Grace progression, which is their class bonus to Reflex Saves. Very nice when you add Evasion to the equation (I'm a poet and I didn't know it).
Cartigan 11-15-07, 11:33 AM	All I want though is to be able to dodge alot Given the fact that 'dodging' is just a notion in pen & paper, and is based on Dexterity bonuses, there is no reason to prestige to "dodge alot." Though you could prestige into Duelist for Int to AC or multi into Swashbuckler for Daring Outlaw and it's Dodge-like class feature.