Rules Lawyer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Rules Lawyer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Norr
10-23-07, 10:43 AM Because such a prominent feature of our community needs a prestige class of its own.

Rules Lawyer
"I'm sorry, but according to RAW..."

Prerequisites:
Alignment: any
Skills: Diplomacy 8 ranks, bluff 4 ranks, Knowledge (metalaw) 8 ranks
- or -
Diplomacy 8 ranks, bluff 4 ranks, Proffession (lawyer) 8 ranks
Feats: Iron Will, Great Fortitude

Rules Lawyers come form all walks of life, but all have the same goals: improving themselves and their allies. If this means bending the rules a bit, that's fine.

Class features:
HD: d4
BAB 1/2
Fort: good, Ref: poor, Will: good
Skill points: 4 + int
class skills: Knowledge (any), craft, profession, diplomacy, bluff, intimidate, sense motive, sleight of hand, spellcraft, psicraft, use magic device, use psionic device, autohypnosis, any other four (choosen when you first take this class).

1: "You misunderstand"
2: I think you missed this part +1
3: "These actually synergise quite well"
4: I think you missed this part +2
5: "You know, those actually do stack"
6: I think you missed this part +3
7: "You can't do that"
8: I think you missed this part +4
9: "I have the answer. No, you don't need to like it."

"You misunderstand":
At first level and every odd level after that (1, 3, 5, 7, 9) the rules lawyer gains class features as if he had also gained a level in another class he posessed before becoming a rules lawyer (ie a rogue 6/RL 3 would have 4d6 sneak attack, trapfinding abilities as an 8th level rogue etc).

I think you missed this part:
The rules lawyer may apply a bonus to one of his own or another creatures ability score. This bonus may only affect one person and ability score at any time and can be reassigned at will as a full round action that provokes an attack of opportunity.
The bonus is +1 at second level and increase by one at every even-numbered level (max +4 at 8th level).

"These actually synergise quite well":
At third level, you may pick one skill that you have 5 ranks in. This skill provide a synergy bonus to any other skill you have ranks in, but not the same one. You may change this skill synergy by concentrating continually for 8 hours straight.
You must also explain the reason for the synergy between the two skills to the DM. No matter how far-fetched, it still works.

"You know, those actually do stack":
Pick one 'typed' bonus that is affecting you or one of your items. That bonus becomes untyped (and thus stack with any other bonuses, even untyped ones).
Designating a bonus as untyped takes 8 hours of continous and uninterrupted concentration, and you may never have more than one bonus converted by this ability at any time.
This ability does not affect 'inherent' bonuses.
Example: a masterwork sword has a +1 enhancement bonus to hit. When becoming magical (and all magic weapons are masterwork) this bonus is subsumed into the +1 weapons enhancement bonus to attack and damage, they don't stack. Now, our rules lawyer designates the masterwork bonus as untyped, therefore giving that +1 sword +2 to hit. This also works the other way around, making it a nice deal for arcane archers (who wants the extra damage from the +5 bow to stack with your +5 AA arrows?) though that RL/AA would have to choose between stacking attack or damage.

"You can't do that":
The rules lawyer may, as an immediate action, force any other creature to reroll any one roll (or one die, in the case of multiple dice) with a new die and choose the lowest of the two rolls.
Example: Krusk attacks an offensive tree with his axe of treeslaying, getting a natural 20 for the win. Bont the Druid 5/Rules Lawyer 7 intervenes on the behalf of the poor tree and forces a reroll before Krusk deals critical damage. Krusk rerolls the d20 and gets a natural 1. Forced to pick the lower of the two rolls, he stabs himself in the face, gaining +4 charisma from a stylish scar and a moderate concussion.
This ability is usable as an immediate action and affects any given creature only once per encounter.

"I have the answer. No, you don't need to like it.":
At ninth level, the Rules lawyer reaches the pinnacle of his art. He may, once per day, use ONE class feature of any other class as a 9th level member of that class. For example, he may add 5d6 sneak attack damage to his attacks as a 9th level rogue does, he may use improved combat style as a 6th level ranger, he may use improved evasion OR Flurry of blows as a 9th level monk or he may cast a spell* (and only one spell) as any 9th level caster (max spell level 5) etc.
*spell/psionic power/mystery/whatever.
This ability is activated as an immediate action and lasts until the beginning of the RLs next turn. Any action to be taken using this ability must be completed before that time (ie rage lasts only one round, no spells can have a casting time of more than one round) but all lingering effects persist as normal (mage armor has its usual duration, rage fartigues you, bardic music lasts for 5 rounds (assuming you have the perfom skill to use it), your armor induces spell failure for arcane spells and some mysteries etc).
This ability is usable once per day.
RobbyPants
10-23-07, 03:01 PM Funny. I'll have to talk the DM into this PrC. It's a gestalt game, so it will work particularly well :P

Because such a prominent feature of our community needs a prestige class of its own.
That's the problem with teh interwebs: it's called the lowest common denominator. We all need to make some certain base assumptions before we can get into any sort of rules debates. RAW seems to be a good place to start. Imagine a thread asking if X works a certain way, and all sides merely argued how their DM does it (oh wait, that happens anyway :P):
Can a barbarian wear mithril fullplate w/o heavy armor proficiency?

Poster 1: Yes. It sais in the FAQ and MIC, and is implied in the DMG.
Poster 2: That's stupid. In my games you need proficiency.
Poster 3: It makes no sense. I am a mideval weapons and arms specialist. I am capable of doing carwheels in full plate. I even have a suit of actual mithril full plate crafted by real life elves and I know it only takes light armor proficiency.
Poster 1: But that's a house rule.
Poster 3: Yeah, one that makes sense!
Poster 2: Noob! Mithril doesn't exist. And I too am a mideval weapons and arms specialist. Fullplate is far to heavy to do cartwheels in. In fact, its the only thing known to man that can stop a uranium katana.

Eh... what was I talking about? :P
Masakari4488
10-31-07, 07:46 PM I will use this prestige class. The gods themselves will cry "Broken!" and I will respond with a hearty "I have the answer. No, you don't need to like it." :D
Operation_Shoestring
10-31-07, 08:15 PM This thread is made of gold and win.

Now just pretend I posted a long rant about this class infringing on the territory of the factotum and chameleon, okay?
Dionon
11-07-07, 02:02 PM *GLOMP!*

I love this class! I want this class! Be MINE class!! You get a Triple Cookie for this one (:cookie: :cookie: :cookie: )
Dead_Weasel
11-08-07, 03:49 AM Diplomacy 8 ranksYou lost me already.;)
Prince_of_Parkness
11-08-07, 11:33 AM You lost me already.;)

New skill: Fool Self (Not sure which state its linked to, prob int modifier*-1)
When you are saying something stupid, you may make a Fool Self check. DC is 100-The amount of IQ required to know that you are saying rubbish. If the check succeeds, you actually think your telling the truth and will insist so until the DM acomidates your point

Now just change it to Fool Self 8 ranks and thats one problem solved
QOShea
11-08-07, 11:44 AM Shouldn't it only be for Lawful types?

The Neutral types will shrug and go along while the Chaotic types don't care about the rules, just having fun.
Norr
11-09-07, 09:28 AM You lost me already.;)

Diplomacy is for convincing the DM and your fellow players that you are right, which is basically all Rules Lawyers do. Bluff also works where you know your claim isn't really legit.

Shouldn't it only be for Lawful types?

The Neutral types will shrug and go along while the Chaotic types don't care about the rules, just having fun.

I have interpreted alignment as follows in this case:
Lawful: You stick to the RAW, or at least your interpretation of it. You use Diplomacy a lot. You are also likely to word your rulings so they apply to everyone equally.
Neutral: mostly same as Lawful, but you are much more eager to exploit unclear wording. You use both Diplomacy and bluff. Your rulings benefit you primarily, but if they benefit/harms others then WTH.
Chaotic: You don't really care about the RAW, you have a goal and look throught he rules for stuff that might support it. You use Bluff a lot. You usually don't care what your rulings do to everyone else.
Good: Your rulings are primarily beneficial to everyone in your party and your DM, often adding to the fun of the game.
Evil: Your rulings are usually harmful to everyone but yourself, you might even make rulings that explicitly harm others (therefore benefitting you indirectly). Evil Rules Lawyers often die in accidents, sometimes the party does it, sometimes the DM.

These are just my interpretations for the Rules Lawyer, but I believe in interpreting alignment on a case-by-case basis.

*snip*

Actualy the IQ of a DND character is their INTx10, so the DC should be 10 for a 50% chance of success (and, of course, RLawyers would get a -10 penalty ;)).
However, this class is supposed to be for RLawyers who actually know what they are doing, By using Bluff you actually trick your DM/fellow players to believe you are right when you know you aren't.

Oh, and Dionon, thanks for the cookies ^_^ *puts a piedestal in his room marked 'cookie collection'* *puts :cookie::cookie::cookie: on it.*

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Norr 10-23-07, 10:43 AM	Because such a prominent feature of our community needs a prestige class of its own. Rules Lawyer "I'm sorry, but according to RAW..." Prerequisites: Alignment: any Skills: Diplomacy 8 ranks, bluff 4 ranks, Knowledge (metalaw) 8 ranks - or - Diplomacy 8 ranks, bluff 4 ranks, Proffession (lawyer) 8 ranks Feats: Iron Will, Great Fortitude Rules Lawyers come form all walks of life, but all have the same goals: improving themselves and their allies. If this means bending the rules a bit, that's fine. Class features: HD: d4 BAB 1/2 Fort: good, Ref: poor, Will: good Skill points: 4 + int class skills: Knowledge (any), craft, profession, diplomacy, bluff, intimidate, sense motive, sleight of hand, spellcraft, psicraft, use magic device, use psionic device, autohypnosis, any other four (choosen when you first take this class). 1: "You misunderstand" 2: I think you missed this part +1 3: "These actually synergise quite well" 4: I think you missed this part +2 5: "You know, those actually do stack" 6: I think you missed this part +3 7: "You can't do that" 8: I think you missed this part +4 9: "I have the answer. No, you don't need to like it." "You misunderstand": At first level and every odd level after that (1, 3, 5, 7, 9) the rules lawyer gains class features as if he had also gained a level in another class he posessed before becoming a rules lawyer (ie a rogue 6/RL 3 would have 4d6 sneak attack, trapfinding abilities as an 8th level rogue etc). I think you missed this part: The rules lawyer may apply a bonus to one of his own or another creatures ability score. This bonus may only affect one person and ability score at any time and can be reassigned at will as a full round action that provokes an attack of opportunity. The bonus is +1 at second level and increase by one at every even-numbered level (max +4 at 8th level). "These actually synergise quite well": At third level, you may pick one skill that you have 5 ranks in. This skill provide a synergy bonus to any other skill you have ranks in, but not the same one. You may change this skill synergy by concentrating continually for 8 hours straight. You must also explain the reason for the synergy between the two skills to the DM. No matter how far-fetched, it still works. "You know, those actually do stack": Pick one 'typed' bonus that is affecting you or one of your items. That bonus becomes untyped (and thus stack with any other bonuses, even untyped ones). Designating a bonus as untyped takes 8 hours of continous and uninterrupted concentration, and you may never have more than one bonus converted by this ability at any time. This ability does not affect 'inherent' bonuses. Example: a masterwork sword has a +1 enhancement bonus to hit. When becoming magical (and all magic weapons are masterwork) this bonus is subsumed into the +1 weapons enhancement bonus to attack and damage, they don't stack. Now, our rules lawyer designates the masterwork bonus as untyped, therefore giving that +1 sword +2 to hit. This also works the other way around, making it a nice deal for arcane archers (who wants the extra damage from the +5 bow to stack with your +5 AA arrows?) though that RL/AA would have to choose between stacking attack or damage. "You can't do that": The rules lawyer may, as an immediate action, force any other creature to reroll any one roll (or one die, in the case of multiple dice) with a new die and choose the lowest of the two rolls. Example: Krusk attacks an offensive tree with his axe of treeslaying, getting a natural 20 for the win. Bont the Druid 5/Rules Lawyer 7 intervenes on the behalf of the poor tree and forces a reroll before Krusk deals critical damage. Krusk rerolls the d20 and gets a natural 1. Forced to pick the lower of the two rolls, he stabs himself in the face, gaining +4 charisma from a stylish scar and a moderate concussion. This ability is usable as an immediate action and affects any given creature only once per encounter. "I have the answer. No, you don't need to like it.": At ninth level, the Rules lawyer reaches the pinnacle of his art. He may, once per day, use ONE class feature of any other class as a 9th level member of that class. For example, he may add 5d6 sneak attack damage to his attacks as a 9th level rogue does, he may use improved combat style as a 6th level ranger, he may use improved evasion OR Flurry of blows as a 9th level monk or he may cast a spell* (and only one spell) as any 9th level caster (max spell level 5) etc. *spell/psionic power/mystery/whatever. This ability is activated as an immediate action and lasts until the beginning of the RLs next turn. Any action to be taken using this ability must be completed before that time (ie rage lasts only one round, no spells can have a casting time of more than one round) but all lingering effects persist as normal (mage armor has its usual duration, rage fartigues you, bardic music lasts for 5 rounds (assuming you have the perfom skill to use it), your armor induces spell failure for arcane spells and some mysteries etc). This ability is usable once per day.
RobbyPants 10-23-07, 03:01 PM	Funny. I'll have to talk the DM into this PrC. It's a gestalt game, so it will work particularly well :P Because such a prominent feature of our community needs a prestige class of its own. That's the problem with teh interwebs: it's called the lowest common denominator. We all need to make some certain base assumptions before we can get into any sort of rules debates. RAW seems to be a good place to start. Imagine a thread asking if X works a certain way, and all sides merely argued how their DM does it (oh wait, that happens anyway :P): Can a barbarian wear mithril fullplate w/o heavy armor proficiency? Poster 1: Yes. It sais in the FAQ and MIC, and is implied in the DMG. Poster 2: That's stupid. In my games you need proficiency. Poster 3: It makes no sense. I am a mideval weapons and arms specialist. I am capable of doing carwheels in full plate. I even have a suit of actual mithril full plate crafted by real life elves and I know it only takes light armor proficiency. Poster 1: But that's a house rule. Poster 3: Yeah, one that makes sense! Poster 2: Noob! Mithril doesn't exist. And I too am a mideval weapons and arms specialist. Fullplate is far to heavy to do cartwheels in. In fact, its the only thing known to man that can stop a uranium katana. Eh... what was I talking about? :P
Masakari4488 10-31-07, 07:46 PM	I will use this prestige class. The gods themselves will cry "Broken!" and I will respond with a hearty "I have the answer. No, you don't need to like it." :D
Operation_Shoestring 10-31-07, 08:15 PM	This thread is made of gold and win. Now just pretend I posted a long rant about this class infringing on the territory of the factotum and chameleon, okay?
Dionon 11-07-07, 02:02 PM	GLOMP! I love this class! I want this class! Be MINE class!! You get a Triple Cookie for this one (:cookie: :cookie: :cookie: )
Dead_Weasel 11-08-07, 03:49 AM	Diplomacy 8 ranksYou lost me already.;)
Prince_of_Parkness 11-08-07, 11:33 AM	You lost me already.;) New skill: Fool Self (Not sure which state its linked to, prob int modifier*-1) When you are saying something stupid, you may make a Fool Self check. DC is 100-The amount of IQ required to know that you are saying rubbish. If the check succeeds, you actually think your telling the truth and will insist so until the DM acomidates your point Now just change it to Fool Self 8 ranks and thats one problem solved
QOShea 11-08-07, 11:44 AM	Shouldn't it only be for Lawful types? The Neutral types will shrug and go along while the Chaotic types don't care about the rules, just having fun.
Norr 11-09-07, 09:28 AM	You lost me already.;) Diplomacy is for convincing the DM and your fellow players that you are right, which is basically all Rules Lawyers do. Bluff also works where you know your claim isn't really legit. Shouldn't it only be for Lawful types? The Neutral types will shrug and go along while the Chaotic types don't care about the rules, just having fun. I have interpreted alignment as follows in this case: Lawful: You stick to the RAW, or at least your interpretation of it. You use Diplomacy a lot. You are also likely to word your rulings so they apply to everyone equally. Neutral: mostly same as Lawful, but you are much more eager to exploit unclear wording. You use both Diplomacy and bluff. Your rulings benefit you primarily, but if they benefit/harms others then WTH. Chaotic: You don't really care about the RAW, you have a goal and look throught he rules for stuff that might support it. You use Bluff a lot. You usually don't care what your rulings do to everyone else. Good: Your rulings are primarily beneficial to everyone in your party and your DM, often adding to the fun of the game. Evil: Your rulings are usually harmful to everyone but yourself, you might even make rulings that explicitly harm others (therefore benefitting you indirectly). Evil Rules Lawyers often die in accidents, sometimes the party does it, sometimes the DM. These are just my interpretations for the Rules Lawyer, but I believe in interpreting alignment on a case-by-case basis. snip Actualy the IQ of a DND character is their INTx10, so the DC should be 10 for a 50% chance of success (and, of course, RLawyers would get a -10 penalty ;)). However, this class is supposed to be for RLawyers who actually know what they are doing, By using Bluff you actually trick your DM/fellow players to believe you are right when you know you aren't. Oh, and Dionon, thanks for the cookies ^_^ puts a piedestal in his room marked 'cookie collection' puts :cookie::cookie::cookie: on it.