Post/Author/DateTime	Post
whitishknight 01-05-07, 04:08 PM	Are there ways to change a terrain's type to waste? Many Sand Shaper abilities require it to be in a waste terrain, and I was wondering if it was possible to have portable deserts.
dunkeykong 01-06-07, 01:11 AM	You could always carry a large amount of sand with you, like that character from Naruto. I believe his name is G'Ara, though if im wrong ill be overwhelmed by rabid fanboys in mere moments.
whitishknight 01-06-07, 05:35 AM	i dunno, would applying sand to an area cause it to be considered waste terrain? or am i mistaken in my understanding here? also, sand's got to be pretty heavy. how would one go about transporting it?
Ocom 01-06-07, 09:30 AM	The sand/dust/gravel does not have to be from a wasteland. Also you can reshape the items you don't need. Or, if your DM thinks otherwise, Get a bag of holding and fill it with sand :rolleyes:
dunkeykong 01-06-07, 03:02 PM	i dunno, would applying sand to an area cause it to be considered waste terrain? or am i mistaken in my understanding here? also, sand's got to be pretty heavy. how would one go about transporting it? I was thinking a bag of holding. Damn, now I want to try this, its sounds pretty badass.
The_Shaman 01-07-07, 09:48 AM	Any anime fans thinking about Naruto about now? I think you needed something like 10 pounds of sand. Technically, 1 pocket of a Handy Haversack is all that you need. From then on, it's a very good sorcerer class if you can get beyond the loss of caster levels. Plus, it has great flavor, too, and it is adaptable to other environments as well: you can be a snowshaper, treeshaper, or whatever else you like.
Metamagick 01-07-07, 12:35 PM	Oh just use 1,000,000,000,000 uses of Major Creation. :P
Darth Sephiroth 01-07-07, 07:00 PM	If your epic level, cast Global Warming. And the Naruto character is Gaara of the Desert and is the container for the one tailed beast, the demon preist Shukaku. He wears one or more massive gourds of sand on his back.
The_Shaman 01-07-07, 07:58 PM	Yep, same one... there was a great quote that could act as a motto of all sand shapers, when he was taunted that without sand, he can't do anything. "Yes. But when I do have sand, I can do anything."
Darth Sephiroth 01-09-07, 12:31 AM	You know, I may need to figure out how to make a Gourd of Endless Sand or something similar, could be an interesting toy for a sandshaper BBEG
The_Shaman 01-09-07, 08:21 AM	Wasn't there something like that in sandstorm - a container that spewed sand, or some such? There was even a pic in which Lidda was using it as a weapon. If that doesn't work in your game, you could have a decanter of endless water and rename it. Sand is usually less useful than water, anyway - at least, less useful to anyone than a sandshaper - so it shouldn't cost anything more.
dunkeykong 01-09-07, 09:23 PM	Wasn't there something like that in sandstorm - a container that spewed sand, or some such? There was even a pic in which Lidda was using it as a weapon. If that doesn't work in your game, you could have a decanter of endless water and rename it. Sand is usually less useful than water, anyway - at least, less useful to anyone than a sandshaper - so it shouldn't cost anything more. its like a decanter of water, just with sand.
Darth Sephiroth 01-09-07, 11:44 PM	Found it, Bottle of Endless Sand (Sandstorm, page 132-133) and it is basically a modified Decanter of Endless Water made for sand rather than water. Now I just need to find a way to make a bigger one that can release a whole lot more to make something more like Gaaras gourd. Sorcerer/Sandshaper would be an awesome combo for a scary and lethal character if I add Improved and Superior Unarmed Strike
The_Shaman 01-10-07, 01:35 PM	A level of monk, ascetic mage, and enlightened fist with an essense of sand instead of fire or whatever it was for their magic-related abilities, if you want, and you are ready to go. I certainly associate a sandshaper's mentality with the cool, almost detached concentration of a monk, and if you're not lawful... Well, equating discipline and perseverance with lawfulness always seemed more than a bit weird to me. Besides, EF doesn't require you to be lawful, per se. The problem is that perhaps you're losing a few caster levels too many. That's ok if you're looking into a build that has decent combat abilities, but with sand as your sword and shield, you don't often need to use your fists in the first place.
Darth Sephiroth 01-10-07, 03:41 PM	Well the Arcane Disciple feat for the Sand domain would be nice as well. Practiced Spellcaster would also be a nice feat to take to bump up your caster level. Drift Magic would also be a requirement for some things and may make a great substitute for the Touchstone feat prerequisite if you don't want the touchstone feat in the game. Also, you may want to consider a hybrid of Sorcerer and Battle Sorcerer, losing the Summon Familiar ability in exhange for the higher BAB and HD. Perhaps a high level spell could trap a demon possessing someone or something to have the Shukaku like effect.
Harliquinn 01-10-07, 03:50 PM	Personally as a DM, I would require the sand be physically on your person and in this dimension for your abilities to work. Carrying sand around in an extradimensional space is not only going against the flavor of the PrC but I'd wager against the Rules as Intended. The class could be easily adapted to another terrain type that has an element that could be shaped...Ice Shaper, Snow Shaper, Water Shaper, Sand Shaper (beach type sand), etc. Harliquinn
The_Shaman 01-10-07, 05:26 PM	I suppose it wouldn't be fun to say "er, I have sand, it's just in, er, another dimension :)". Anyway, at least you'll have the sand close at hand, then you'll need from a move action to a full-round action to get ready for the rumble :) .
Darth Sephiroth 01-10-07, 05:55 PM	Just pop the cork on the gourd and get ready to rumble, of course if you have a semi-opened bag of holding or something you could probably use it just as easily.
Soel Griffin 01-11-07, 03:44 AM	You could seek out the Dragon mag from a year or two ago that had rules for Defiling magic, and use that to create your waste terrain (as well as power your metamagic!)
Darth Sephiroth 01-11-07, 02:53 PM	And yet another time where I wish I had a subscription
Xenephon 01-12-07, 01:27 AM	Personally as a DM, I would require the sand be physically on your person and in this dimension for your abilities to work. Carrying sand around in an extradimensional space is not only going against the flavor of the PrC but I'd wager against the Rules as Intended. The class could be easily adapted to another terrain type that has an element that could be shaped...Ice Shaper, Snow Shaper, Water Shaper, Sand Shaper (beach type sand), etc. Harliquinn Or, as the DM, you could just rule that the abilities of the Sandshaper work. Anywhere. Full stop. Works for me :D
Nifft 01-12-07, 12:45 PM	The Decanter of Sand is cool, as is Gaara's giant gourd, but IMHO the best flavor would be a small pouch from which one could draw endless* sand... like the Sandman. Alternately, you could whap someone on the head with it, like Rincewind. Cheers, -- N *) Endless! Get it? GET IT?!?
Halaku 01-12-07, 01:07 PM	thats one thing about the sand shaper thats always intruiged me, the shaping sand ability, couldnt you, with it, shape all your gear (weapons, possible armor, clothing etc) out of sand and then have it count as the amount of sand required for the bonus? Nevermind the utility of it all >.>
The_Shaman 01-12-07, 02:10 PM	I guess ... It's at least cool to have a sword that is actually made out of sand and that you can shift in other things as you need them.
Halaku 01-12-07, 02:30 PM	though a very munchkinish thought just struck me, does it ever specify what can and cannot shape sand into? example: are you limited to fullplate, or can you shape mithril fullplate, or a step farther, +5 fortified Mithril full plate of bouyancy or somthing eqauly silly id check myself but im at work and dont have the book on hand
whitishknight 01-12-07, 03:24 PM	it's still basic sand, with sand stats for hardness and such. what i was more intrigued with was making a sand tank. i think there's a dc of +30 on it, but potentially an object of 10' by 5' could be made. or, if combined with dread necromancer 8 the sand shaper could potentially outfit his 3 elite undead with whatever weapon/armor it needs. the limitation is that a sand shaper can make only a number of items equal to his sand shaper levels, which would total 10.
Darth Sephiroth 01-12-07, 03:31 PM	The sand armor would be cool, you could pull off something like Gaara's ultimate defense, Adamantine Armor of Heavy Fortification
Darth Sephiroth 01-12-07, 10:25 PM	I've actually started a Sandshaper character after my Warforged was destroyed a few sessions ago, so I'm starting at level 15. My character is a Battle Sorcerer 5/Monk 1/Human Paragon 3/Sandshaper 6 and is carrying a Gourd of Endless Sand (Called the Gourd of the Desert) that is basically a much larger version of the Bottle of Endless Sand except that it's in a massive gourd my character wears on his back. I've been alowed by the DM to take non-sorcerer spells of the Earth subtype but can take no wind spells. The gourd is cursed though it is more effictive than a normal one, it has a Sand Devil that tried to possess it trapped within that grants the one who wears it an additional +2 to caster level when using Earth spells and lets me cast 2 extra spells per day of the Earth type, but I have to make a Will save every day (DC 15) or take 1 point of Wis and Cha Damage and not regain my daily spells. Plus it occasionally can try to influence my character. The ability damage only recovers on a full day of rest that I suceed on my save.
whitishknight 01-13-07, 12:18 AM	I'm working on a Dread Necromancer 8/Sandshaper 10/ ? 2 build, who manipulates the Black Sand mentioned in the same book. seems a bit overpowered (self healing undead), so I'm trying to work a way to make it balanced (also, the Sand Shape ability says the objects created have no magical properties, but this is based on the assumption one is using regular sand). with Arcane Disciple (Sand) and Southern Magician, I'm thinking I'll go walker in the waste too. mostly for thematical fun.
Darth Sephiroth 01-13-07, 12:45 AM	Some of the really sweet spells for a Sand Shaper come from the Sand & Sun spells. Dune Tomb is one I was allowed to take as a spell with my character.
Harliquinn 01-15-07, 11:21 AM	though a very munchkinish thought just struck me, does it ever specify what can and cannot shape sand into? example: are you limited to fullplate, or can you shape mithril fullplate, or a step farther, +5 fortified Mithril full plate of bouyancy or somthing eqauly silly id check myself but im at work and dont have the book on hand I dont' think you can create magical effects/items. However, IIRC, it does mention different materials, so you should be able to create mithral or adamantine.
Harliquinn 01-15-07, 11:23 AM	Or, as the DM, you could just rule that the abilities of the Sandshaper work. Anywhere. Full stop. Works for me :D This would (I believe) remove one of the limitations of an otherwise very powerful class, making it almost too powerful. 15 pounds of sand for a caster is not trivial weight-wise for most. In addition, the metamagic abilities later on work only in a waste environment for balance reasons (My DM has ruled that the 15 pounds of sand you carry suffices for those - just don't lose it). Harliquinn
Darth Sephiroth 01-15-07, 08:23 PM	Just make the Bottle of Endless Sand and use your Shape Sand ability to keep some of it on you anyway.
Darcon_Firedrake 01-16-07, 07:00 PM	I've actually started a Sandshaper character after my Warforged was destroyed a few sessions ago, so I'm starting at level 15. My character is a Battle Sorcerer 5/Monk 1/Human Paragon 3/Sandshaper 6 and is carrying a Gourd of Endless Sand (Called the Gourd of the Desert) that is basically a much larger version of the Bottle of Endless Sand except that it's in a massive gourd my character wears on his back. I've been alowed by the DM to take non-sorcerer spells of the Earth subtype but can take no wind spells. The gourd is cursed though it is more effictive than a normal one, it has a Sand Devil that tried to possess it trapped within that grants the one who wears it an additional +2 to caster level when using Earth spells and lets me cast 2 extra spells per day of the Earth type, but I have to make a Will save every day (DC 15) or take 1 point of Wis and Cha Damage and not regain my daily spells. Plus it occasionally can try to influence my character. The ability damage only recovers on a full day of rest that I suceed on my save. Gaara....
Darth Sephiroth 01-16-07, 08:32 PM	Except that he doesn't really know about the monster in the gourd and it can escape if I'm not careful. It really doesn't like my character that much as he's in the CG/CN realm of things with a lawful evil monster.
Gothenem 01-17-07, 06:59 PM	Ummm, yeah. Sandshaper. I like the Sandshaper. Sandshaper is cool. Sandshapers rock. Bow down to the Sandshapers, as they are the world's rightful rulers. It says so in their flavor text. All kidding aside, Sandshapers should require the sand on their person, not in an extradimensional space or gourd of endless sand. This is for flavor reasons as well as mechanical reasons. I truly consider Sandstorm the best of the Element books, with Frostburn a close 2nd. Wasn't too impressed with Stormwrack.
Vash_HS 05-29-07, 07:49 PM	I want to use this PRC but I'm not going to be in a Waste environment. So, would it be overpowered to be a rock shaper and have everything apply in rocky terrain and underground. I would be removing the carrying 15 lb of sand and just making the +1 CL only work underground or on rocky terrain. Also, should I keep the spell list as is or remove the desert spells (dessication, etc) and replace them with what?
Disciple_of_Juiblex 05-29-07, 08:34 PM	The class itself says you have to carrry 15 pounds of sand on your person to gain the benifit outside wastland enviroments... its not that hard. Player: " hey DM, do they have any shops around here" DM: "Sure, what are you looking for?" Player: "A drum that could hold 15-20 pounds of sand" DM: "Magical? ... *player shakes head no* yea you can buy one for 2 gold" Player: "Sweet, thanks!" Problem solved
Vash_HS 05-29-07, 09:30 PM	The class itself says you have to carrry 15 pounds of sand on your person to gain the benifit outside wastland enviroments... its not that hard. Player: " hey DM, do they have any shops around here" DM: "Sure, what are you looking for?" Player: "A drum that could hold 15-20 pounds of sand" DM: "Magical? ... *player shakes head no* yea you can buy one for 2 gold" Player: "Sweet, thanks!" Problem solved The thing is I wanted to change it to both fit better thematically and to make better use out of Sand shape (what the change would call stone shape).
Disciple_of_Juiblex 05-29-07, 10:09 PM	The thing is I wanted to change it to both fit better thematically and to make better use out of Sand shape (what the change would call stone shape). Sorry i wasent talking about your varient, i was talking about the normal class. You could i guess make it diffrent. Castable only in an underground eviroment or if your carring 15 pounds of dirt coming from an underground lovation. i say work with your dm to find a comprimise for abilities.
Stumpy_the_Tall 05-31-07, 02:13 PM	(Digging this one up because it's just awsome) I had a couple questions about going about making one of these for friends of mine to face off against (I like throwing PCs at them because I get to play instead of just adjudicate. Besides, this way I can play whatever I want and not have to level them up myself!). Now say I have a bottle of endless sand. If I uncork that and turn it upside down while it was on a belt or something, would the trail of sand be eligable to be shaped? This way I can get around not actually having sand on me but not being in the waste at the same time. This would give me a way for the party to find the shaper and give him a sand supply. One other question seeing I saw it in this thread. One poster mentions the Sandstorm, Stormwreak, and Frostburn books. I'm SORTA new to this (Only played core for the longest time until I could find a game store with a larger selection) and was wondering if there was an elemental book for fire. I'm a big elemental fan and would like to pick these up. I just need to have the names of the books so the dealer can order them for me.
Andyr 05-31-07, 03:21 PM	Looking at them like that, Sandstorm is as much about fire as it is earth. There's a swath of rules about the environment's effects on characters, many of which comment on heat and dehydration. So I'd say that is as close to such a book as is available.
Stumpy_the_Tall 05-31-07, 04:23 PM	Looking at them like that, Sandstorm is as much about fire as it is earth. There's a swath of rules about the environment's effects on characters, many of which comment on heat and dehydration. So I'd say that is as close to such a book as is available. Ok thanks. Just wasn't sure if I had to order three or four books. Any other good books dealing with the elements out there? By that I mean their main focus being fire earth air water. I know theres a lot of little chunks on them in all the books but I wanna get the heavy hitters first and then pick up the rest. I assume the manual of the planes is a big one?
teshen 05-31-07, 05:17 PM	Except that he doesn't really know about the monster in the gourd . . . Which would make it one of the differences from the naruto series... With Gaara, the demon is inside him. And latter on... he makes wastes as he travels. He is able to draw a massive amount of sand up from the dirt in the earth and trap someone in it in the middle of a green meadow... but this might be an example of epic sand shaping... *shrugs*
Stumpy_the_Tall 06-01-07, 12:16 PM	Which would make it one of the differences from the naruto series... With Gaara, the demon is inside him. And latter on... he makes wastes as he travels. He is able to draw a massive amount of sand up from the dirt in the earth and trap someone in it in the middle of a green meadow... but this might be an example of epic sand shaping... *shrugs* Shh. Don't spoil the plot for our good American only watching friends! (Although if you haven't already you really should go to an online video website and watch then in japenese. You're missing a lot of the story and japenese is already literally years ahead of where the American dub is. I think American is on the high eighties while japenese is going on almost 300 or more?) Edit: Ok didn't know the first three letters of japenese is a bad word still. Secondly thinking back They may have seen that fight. I can't remember if it comes before or after the Tsunade arc. Edit 2: Huzah I was bored so I found out. According to the wiki there are 220 episodes of Naruto and 16 episodes (ongoing) of Naruto Shippuden. The fight in question is episode 126 and American viewers are currently on episode 89. So stay tuned to see this prestige class in epic action!
Harliquinn 06-01-07, 02:36 PM	Now say I have a bottle of endless sand. If I uncork that and turn it upside down while it was on a belt or something, would the trail of sand be eligable to be shaped? This way I can get around not actually having sand on me but not being in the waste at the same time. This would give me a way for the party to find the shaper and give him a sand supply. Yes and I imagine that is its primary purpose.
Stumpy_the_Tall 06-01-07, 03:00 PM	Ok that works for me. I was just assuming that people were pulling the cork and drawing out the sand without actually dumping it out or letting it escape. I figured it would be a little more on the fairside if it had a drawback. In this case it would be that the character is extremely easy to find.
Andyr 06-03-07, 06:35 AM	Ok thanks. Just wasn't sure if I had to order three or four books. Any other good books dealing with the elements out there? By that I mean their main focus being fire earth air water. I know theres a lot of little chunks on them in all the books but I wanna get the heavy hitters first and then pick up the rest. I assume the manual of the planes is a big one? Manual of the Planes doesn't have too much on the Inner Planes. If you're interested in them, you might want to use eBay/Amazon/Paizo (for a PDF version) to get hold of a copy of the Planescape accessory A Guide To The Inner Planes. The rules are out of date, but the fluff is good.