Song Thief (PEACH) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Song Thief (PEACH) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
imakuni67
10-19-07, 09:51 AM Requirements
To qualify to become a Song Thief, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria.
Alignment: Any nonlawful
Skills: Bluff 4 ranks, Knowledge (Arcana) 4 ranks, Perform 7 ranks, Spellcraft 9 ranks, Use Magic Device 9 ranks.
Spellcasting: Must be able to cast 1st level arcane spells without preparation.
Special: Steal Spell (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a&page=1)class feature, Steal elemental resistance 10 class feature, Bardic Music class feature.
HD: d6

Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Bardic Knowledge, Bardic Music, Steal Spell
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3
4th +3 +1 +4 +4 Sneak Attack +1d6
5th +3 +1 +4 +4
6th +4 +2 +5 +5
7th +5 +2 +5 +5
8th +6 +2 +6 +6 Sneak Attack +2d6
9th +6 +3 +6 +6
10th +7 +3 +7 +7
The song thief's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (None), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skills: 6+Int mod per level.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
The song thief gains no proficiencies with weapons or armor.
Spellcasting
When a new song thief level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming an song thief, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.
Bardic Knowledge (Ex): A song thief can attempt to recall some relevant piece of information about local notable people, legendary items, or noteworthy places. See the bard class feature. She adds her song thief class level to her bardic knowledge checks, so her bardic knowledge checks have a bonus equal to her bard level + her song thief level + her Int modifier.
Bardic Music: A song thief adds her class level to her bard level to determine the number of times per day she can use her bardic music, the bardic music abilities she can employ, and the power of those abilities. For example, a 2nd-level spell thief/5th-level bard/3rd-level song thief can use her bardic music eight times per day, can use any bardic music ability an 8th-level bard could use (assuming she meets the Perform skill rank requirements), and is treated as an 8th-level bard for adjudicating the effects of those abilities (such as number of targets, save DC, and so forth).
Steal Spell (Su): A song thief adds her class level to her spell thief level to determine which level of spell she can steal and how the maximum number of stolen spells she may hold. She does not however gain other class features of the spell thief (such as steal energy resistance or steal spell-like ability).
Sneak Attack: As the rogue ability.
nonsi
10-19-07, 11:15 AM Is there a class feature from either base classes the Song Thief DOESN'T get ? (let's look at the Bard and the Spellthief and see if they trade anything for this PrC)

I mean, other then trailing 2 levels behind in your leading class (haven't checked if you could go ST 4 / Bard 1 or vice versa), why on earth would I not take the Song Thief ?
Far_Traveler
10-19-07, 11:25 AM You lose Spellthief inheret spellcasting, and you lose the extra thiefing stuff (energy resistance, etc), but otherwise nothing
VampyresThrenody
10-19-07, 12:25 PM I think he's essentially trying to make something like a mystic theurge for bard/spellthief. I would dump the sneak attacks since the class seems focused primarily on spell casting. I don't really know anything about the spelltheif class or its features though...
imakuni67
10-19-07, 12:55 PM What does a eldritch knight give up? Let's compare some 20 level SRD only progressions:

Fighter 20 has BAB 20, 20d10 HP, and saves 12/6/6, and 11 bonus feats
Wizard 20 has BAB 10, 20d4 HP and saves 6/6/12, with spellcaster level 20, and 4 bonus feats
Fighter 1/Wizard 9/Eldritch Knight 10 has BAB 15, 1d10+9d4+10d6 HP and saves at 12/6/9 but only caster level 18.

Point is...you give up versatility and hit points versus raw fighter, or on the other hand 2 levels of spellcasting 3 bonus feats from wizard.

Give and take.

However, I am going to update the Prereqs to make it able at 7 instead of 5.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
imakuni67 10-19-07, 09:51 AM	Requirements To qualify to become a Song Thief, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria. Alignment: Any nonlawful Skills: Bluff 4 ranks, Knowledge (Arcana) 4 ranks, Perform 7 ranks, Spellcraft 9 ranks, Use Magic Device 9 ranks. Spellcasting: Must be able to cast 1st level arcane spells without preparation. Special: Steal Spell (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a&page=1)class feature, Steal elemental resistance 10 class feature, Bardic Music class feature. HD: d6 Attack Fort Ref Will Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Bardic Knowledge, Bardic Music, Steal Spell 2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 4th +3 +1 +4 +4 Sneak Attack +1d6 5th +3 +1 +4 +4 6th +4 +2 +5 +5 7th +5 +2 +5 +5 8th +6 +2 +6 +6 Sneak Attack +2d6 9th +6 +3 +6 +6 10th +7 +3 +7 +7 The song thief's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (None), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha). Skills: 6+Int mod per level. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The song thief gains no proficiencies with weapons or armor. Spellcasting When a new song thief level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming an song thief, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day. Bardic Knowledge (Ex): A song thief can attempt to recall some relevant piece of information about local notable people, legendary items, or noteworthy places. See the bard class feature. She adds her song thief class level to her bardic knowledge checks, so her bardic knowledge checks have a bonus equal to her bard level + her song thief level + her Int modifier. Bardic Music: A song thief adds her class level to her bard level to determine the number of times per day she can use her bardic music, the bardic music abilities she can employ, and the power of those abilities. For example, a 2nd-level spell thief/5th-level bard/3rd-level song thief can use her bardic music eight times per day, can use any bardic music ability an 8th-level bard could use (assuming she meets the Perform skill rank requirements), and is treated as an 8th-level bard for adjudicating the effects of those abilities (such as number of targets, save DC, and so forth). Steal Spell (Su): A song thief adds her class level to her spell thief level to determine which level of spell she can steal and how the maximum number of stolen spells she may hold. She does not however gain other class features of the spell thief (such as steal energy resistance or steal spell-like ability). Sneak Attack: As the rogue ability.
nonsi 10-19-07, 11:15 AM	Is there a class feature from either base classes the Song Thief DOESN'T get ? (let's look at the Bard and the Spellthief and see if they trade anything for this PrC) I mean, other then trailing 2 levels behind in your leading class (haven't checked if you could go ST 4 / Bard 1 or vice versa), why on earth would I not take the Song Thief ?
Far_Traveler 10-19-07, 11:25 AM	You lose Spellthief inheret spellcasting, and you lose the extra thiefing stuff (energy resistance, etc), but otherwise nothing
VampyresThrenody 10-19-07, 12:25 PM	I think he's essentially trying to make something like a mystic theurge for bard/spellthief. I would dump the sneak attacks since the class seems focused primarily on spell casting. I don't really know anything about the spelltheif class or its features though...
imakuni67 10-19-07, 12:55 PM	What does a eldritch knight give up? Let's compare some 20 level SRD only progressions: Fighter 20 has BAB 20, 20d10 HP, and saves 12/6/6, and 11 bonus feats Wizard 20 has BAB 10, 20d4 HP and saves 6/6/12, with spellcaster level 20, and 4 bonus feats Fighter 1/Wizard 9/Eldritch Knight 10 has BAB 15, 1d10+9d4+10d6 HP and saves at 12/6/9 but only caster level 18. Point is...you give up versatility and hit points versus raw fighter, or on the other hand 2 levels of spellcasting 3 bonus feats from wizard. Give and take. However, I am going to update the Prereqs to make it able at 7 instead of 5.