Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Olik 12-10-07, 07:57 PM	First off let me just state that i do not have a firm foundation made of D&D rulebooks under my feet. I want to play a Soul Knife but the class has problems. I didnt want to screw with the core class, but i ended up having to. i only moved around a few things, mainly just what levels Psychic Strike, +x Mind blade, and +x Mind blade Enhancement were gained at. other then that i pretty much left it be. what im posting here is a prestige class i designed with the Soul Knife in mind specifically. if you have any ideas on what would make it more fair, let me know, since ive never played one before, and like i said, i dont know all the rules so some of the stuff might be abused or just not good enough. Adept Soul Blade "My mind is greater than your matter" Imagine a Psionic Samurai, and youll have a pretty good idea of what i was going for with this. ENTRY REQUIREMENTS :Alignment: Any :Skills: Concentration 13, Autohypnosis 6 :Feats: Psionic Meditation, Narrow Mind. Shape Mind blade. : : Class Skills Adept Soul Blade’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis) Climb (Str) Concentration (Con) Craft (Int) Jump (Str) Knowledge - Psionics (Int) Listen (Wis) Spot (Wis) Tumble (Dex) Skills Points at Each Level : 4 + int Hit Dice: d10 Adept Soul Blade Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 1 +1 +0 +2 +2 Mental Fusion, Combat Foresight 2 +2 +1 +3 +3 Weapon Specialization (Mind Blade) 3 +3 +1 +3 +3 Quick Focus 4 +4 +1 +4 +4 Decisive Mind 5 +5 +2 +4 +4 Material Inability 6 +6 +2 +5 +5 Greater Weapon Specialization (Mind Blade) 7 +7 +2 +5 +5 Keen Focus 8 +8 +3 +6 +6 Improved Critical (Mind Blade) 9 +9 +3 +6 +6 Devastating Critical 10 +10 +3 +7 +7 Synapse Adept Soul Blade levels stack with Soul Knife levels for purposes of determining ONLY Mind blade Enhancements and Enhancement Bonuses. Weapon Proficiencies: Adept Soul Blade gains no new weapon or armor proficiencies. Combat Foresight: The Adept Soul Blade can mentally project himself forwards in time, granting him the ability to know critical moments in combat that would allow him to make the most of his attacks. As a standard action the Adept can forgo any additional attacks allowing him to add his full dexterity modifier to his attack bonus, and 1/2 (round down) his dexterity modifier to his damage bonus while wielding his mind blade. If the Adept is wielding any other weapon than his mind blade, He cannot use Combat Foresight. This ability works with Spring Attack. Mental Fusion: The Adept Soul Blade must select one weapon form that he is to become a master of. If the Mind blade is in his designated weapon form, he gains a +5 damage. If the mind blade is in any other form, the Adept Soul Blade does not receive this bonus. Synapse: The Adept Soul Blade has sharpened his mind for combat. this ability requires Psionic focus. As an immediate action, you may make an AoO against an opponent who just missed you. Decisive Mind: +5 to Initiative Modifier. Keen Focus: the Adept Soul Blade no longer has to expend focus to use a feat chosen from the list below. The feat selected still requires him to be focused to use it, but he will no longer lose his focus when using it. Any upgrades of the feats listed below still cause focus to be expended. Mental Leap Psionic Fists Psionic Weapon Psionic Shot Quick Focus: an Adept Soul Blade may choose to gain psionic focus as a swift action, but cannot gain psionic focus more than once per round. If psionic focus is gained before initiative is rolled, and is used on the Soul Blades initial attack, he may use a free action to gain focus again before his turn ends, because he did not gain focus during the combat round. In this scenario, if an enemy provokes an attack of opportunity from the Soul Blade, this focus can be expended again, but if the Soul Blade takes lethal damage while a quick focus is active, he immediately loses his focus because it is not as strong as a standard psionic focus gain (regular movement action). The Soul Blade must state that he is using quick focus before he makes his constitution check. Material Inability: The Adept Soul Blade has forged an incredibly strong bond with his mind blade, and gains a +2 attack bonus while wielding it, but his neglect with material weapons has over time crippled his abilities to use them. When wielding anything but his mind blade, the Adept Soul Blade takes a -2 penalty to attack and damage. Psionic Focus is expended upon the use of this ability. Devastating Critical: The Adept is able to take advantage of his opponent’s weaknesses, adding 1 to his critical multiplier. EX: 19-20 / x2 becomes 19-20 / x3. x3 becomes x4. x4 becomes x5.
Legdiwena 12-10-07, 08:04 PM	Is this meant to replace the 3.o version? Soul Knife is a base class in 3.5.
Olik 12-10-07, 09:01 PM	This is a Prestige Class that i made with the Soul Knife in mind.
Legdiwena 12-10-07, 09:12 PM	Why did you destroy the full attack?
Olik 12-10-07, 09:38 PM	i could bring it back. i was trying to make this character on paper to see how it looks (i dont have my books with me at the moment) and im looking at about +45-50 attack bonus after feats, and 1d10+24 +7d8 +2d6 for one attack. that seems like an assload for one attack, but i honestly dont know. Edit - and i figured since the character could only make one attack, it would be a standard action (assuming its not Blade Wind) and that would allow him to go into a defensive stance after his attack pretty much every single round. BUT, i dont have my books and i dont have most of the basic stuff memorized so im not sure.
Legdiwena 12-11-07, 11:57 AM	How do you have attack bonus and damage so high? You have Dex to attack or damage listed twice.
Olik 12-11-07, 04:46 PM	This is the character i made last night. Character Level: 16 Soulknife 10 / Adept Soul Blade 6 Race: Human Alignment: Neutral Neutral Starting Gold: 260,000 Stat rolls (took me 6 rollthroughs to get two 18's for this character example) Str - 18 +2 (levels) = 20 + 6 (belt) = 26 Dex - 18 +1 (levels) = 19 + 6 (gloves) = 25 Con - 17 +1 (levels) = 18 +6 (necklace) = 24 Int - 15 +6 (Head) = 21 Wis - 14 Char - 14 This makes my modifiers: str = 26 +8 (12 if 2h) dex = 25 +7 con = 24 +7 int = 21 +5 wis = 14 +2 cha = 14 +2 Feats Selected: 7 total Improved Initiative: +4 initiative. Combat Reflexes: +7 Attacks of Opportunity. Melee Weapon Mastery: +2 attack and damage. Power Critical: +4 to confirm crits. Up the Walls: Run on Walls and Ceilings. Psionic Meditation: Psionic Focus = Move action Narrow Mind: +4 Con on psionic focus checks Feats Gained: 5 total Shape Mindblade Weapon Focus (Mind blade) Greater Weapon Focus (Mind blade) Weapon Specialization (Mind blade) Greater Weapon Specialization (Mind blade) AC 30 = 10 base + 10 armor + 6 Dex mod + 4 Deflection Touch = 20 Flatfoot = 24 HP = 201 (10d10 + 6d8 + (16x7)) Initiative 16 = 7 dex + 4 feat + 5 ability Saves: Fort 16 = 5 base + 7 con + 4 resistance cloak Ref 21 = 10 base + 7 dex + 4 resistance cloak will 16 = 10 base + 2 wis + 4 resistance cloak Base Attack Bonus = 13 Grapple 21 = 13 BAB + 8 str Attack: Weapon = +5 Mindblade (bastard sword shape) wielded 2h. (Collision) Attack Bonus: 13 BAB + 12 Str (x1.5) +5 (mindblade) + 7 dex + 4 (feats) = 41 Damage: 1d10 + 12 str (x1.5) +5 Collision +5 Mindblade +4 (feats) = 1d10+26 Psychic Strike = +5d8. (Patience: The adept Soul Blade cannot make more than 1 attack per round, not counting attacks of opportunity. Blade Wind counts as one full round attack, even though it hits multiple opponents. In addition, the Adept Soul Blade may add his full dexterity modifier to his attack or damage bonus. this ability may not be used on attacks of opportunity.) Attack type #1: 41 attack bonus 1d10+26 +5d8 damage. Attack type #2: 34 attack bonus 1d10+33 +5d8 damage. Attack of opportunity: 34 attack bonus 1d10+26 damage Does this look overpowered?
dman11235 12-11-07, 05:57 PM	Okay, after a quick look over the PrC, I must ask: why would anyone not take this? This is something you must ask yourself when creating a PrC, especially when creating a PrC with a specific base class in mind. Also, here's some formatting tips. Bold and use larger font for names of more general things like the class name, class features title, etc. Use just bold for the names of class features. Also, {code}table{/code} makes a nice table. Replace {} with []. Here's a thread dedicated just for this actually: linky (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=933189). You can even quote then copy/paste and fill in the blanks. One thing's for sure: you will get more people to help you if it looks nice. Okay so what you have here is a PrC dedicated to making the mindblade a weapon of choice. So what the class features should be are a way of specializing your fighting style to become great with a mindblade. That's what you started doing. Good job. However, some of the things just don't do this well. Take the psychic strike/mindblade enhancements. The psychic strike doesn't have much to do with the mindblade. Therefore, why have it? Also, why not just say that these levels stack with soul knife to determine mindblade enhancement? It's easier, there's less confusion, and it fits the theme well (as well as follows the same format as most every thing else in D&D like spellcasting levels). Another thing, before you fix up the formatting, is that some of the abilities are poorly worded. Patience is the first one that comes to mind. I will return later.
Olik 12-11-07, 06:33 PM	Ill run it through the grinder and try and make it look nice and ill reword things that might not make sense. of course since its my ideas, all of it makes sense to me so if something looks goofy to you or anyone else, just mention what looks confusing and ill be able to clarify it and that would help me to alter the descriptions of abilities, or alter the abilities to have them make more sense in that aspect. Thanks for taking your time to read through it. i know its an eye sore so ill do what i can to clean that up.
dman11235 12-11-07, 08:43 PM	That thread I linked can really help you. Also, reread what you write before hand. If it seems that there might possibly be confusion, clarify it more.
Olik 12-12-07, 07:22 PM	I edited up the main post to try and make it look a little cleaner, and to help clarify some of the confusing parts. hopefully it makes more sense, and looks better on paper. Also i added in some new abilities, and Meditated abilities, and changed the order that skills and such were obtained per level. i like it better than where it was before. The reason why i had originally left in Psychic Strike, was because i liked the damage boost, and i thought if i just made all the abilities focusing on damage then it would lose some or all of the class flavor. when i ditched Psychic strike augmenting abilities, i had to try and keep the Psionic Focus flavor by adding in some other abilities that require Psionic Focus. NOTE: Synapse might seem a little confusing but i don't know how else to word it. basically you get to counter-attack the first person who attacks you and misses.
dman11235 12-12-07, 09:13 PM	Your meditative abilities are inconsistent in power. For one, the unfaltering critical is insanely powerful. Then the initiative one is terrible. Also, why take improved focus when you could take quicken focus? Also, there is no cohersion between the patience ability and anything else. In addition, that ability is poorly worded. Try this: By forgoing multiple attacks, an adept soul blade increases his accuracy and strength. As a standard action, you may make one attack, this attack adds your dexterity to damage as well as strength. Or something similar. The "or" is wierd, and it shouldn't add to attack anyway. That's what that meditative ability is for. Also, you should restrict that meditative ablity (material inability) to times when you perform a patient strike, as well as the +5 damage ability. Also, get rid of psychic mastery. That ability is for a different class. Mental momentum** is not the capstone. Just no. The capstone needs to be something unique. Something like synapse*. Or something else (weapon supremacy? No, too powerful. Something that screams "I'm really good at cutting you with my mind!" but that's not a powerful ability, about average). Psychic strike isn't "mindblade mastery", it's mind mastery. I have said this before (please don't take it the wrong way, I don't mean to be mean): no one cares what you want. No, to explain why I said this, we go to puppets (I wish). This class does not appear to be a psychic strike orriented class. It looks very much like a melee mind blade master. Also, psychic strike does not require the expenditure of psionic focus. And you have plenty of psionic focus powered abilities in here. Back to patience. You said you wanted a single-strike character, probably a skirmisher, correct? Look at the decicive strike monk variant in the PHBII. Double damage for one attack/round. The doubling carries over to AoOs and such. By having all of your class features build off of this, you can equal this power. Make sure to put in a clause that this single strike works with spring attack. Space weapon supremacy and GWS out. Finally, the meditative abilities. Get rid of: improved focus, Psychic Mastery, Unfaltering Critical, and Enhanced Initiative. Put the rest as straight class features. In this order: 1: quick focus. 2: material inability. 3: keen focus. 4: devastating critical. *Synapse: it's simple: By expending your psionic focus as an immediate action, you may make an AoO against an opponent who just missed you. **Up the walls? It's a feat you know.
Olik 12-12-07, 10:44 PM	Patience is an "Always on" type thing that im trying to use to boost up the damage and attack bonus of EVERY attack made. i can make it so its active durring AoO, but its nothing you can stop from happening. every single attack you make adds your dex modifier to either your damage or your attack bonus (player choice). EX: without Patience: 13 BAB +8 (str modifier) = 21. WITH patience: 13 BAB +8 (str modifier) +7 (dex modifier) = 28. The reason why i limited it to "intended" strikes (rather than including AoO) was because i wanted it to have that feel that "Im waiting for the right time to attack". with AoO, i always imagined them as "oh **** i can hit him, i should do that really quick". an afterthought. BUT for sake of simplicity, im changing Patience to add your dex modifier to damage and Attack, perminently. Up The Walls allows you to run on ceilings and walls as long as you end your current turn back on the ground again *i think*. Mental Momentum was sort of meant to be an upgrade to it, allowing you to stay on the walls or ceiling as long as your character is not in combat and remains in motion. im probably going to end up changing it or removing it entirely though. i just dont know what for yet. The Enhanced initiative ability was my pathetic attempt to boost the characters initiative roll. i feel that if a character is so sharp of mind, hed be one fast mo-fo as far as reacting to attacks goes. i didnt want to give him a ton of AC so i thought "well maybe he just moves alittle faster than most" so i boosted initiative. if you have a better idea, im all ears. I dont mind your phrasing of stuff. your helping me and i dont take offense to anything you say that might be misconstrued as harsh. im happy that ive got someone to help me shape this thing out into something playable. i see potential for it. i just hope im not blind =X Edit - I could replace the Mental Momentum ability with a permanent static initiative boost, rather than a boost that is dictated by a stat. Decisive Mind: +5 to Initiative Modifier?
dman11235 12-12-07, 11:19 PM	(decisive mind) That works. Also, the way you worded it, it's wisdom, not int. However, I must ask why there is this ability. And be thorough. A choice like that for patience is not a very good one to make, because to-hit is ALWAYS better than damage, I don't care what you say otherwise. There's a reason that there's a +5 damage weapon enhancement, and no +5 attack enhancement. Also, arcane strike: +spell level attack, +1d4xspell level damage. There are many more indications of this as well. Also, what I suggested is much simpler, a straight dex to damage, when you use the ability. It also cues up some good connections with the rest of the class, requiring you to use this ability for them to function. One reason for this method is simplicity. Another is to avoid trapping people into one style (it is a poor choice to (as a class feature) limit you to one attack a round. It always, always has a choice to not do the special attack: example: Order of the Bow Initiate and Scout.), that way if they need to they can forgo the benifits of most of the class, and get a full attack in. As for up the walls, then have it as an advanced version. But not that way. The way you have it is spider climb constant. But I still don't see the connection between it and this class. Also, I must say that I don't mean to be mean, otherwise, I might come off as it. I am shrewd (? Might not be the best word to describe it). I go through thoroughly and critique the classes I do. I try and make sure there is no flaw in the design. Sometimes I'll insist that you do it a certain way just to make sure that there is no problem with the current way. Just FYI.
dman11235 12-12-07, 11:21 PM	And the point of the comment was to make sure that you aren't creating a PrC for a specific character. I believe I have the "on the philosophy of class design" linked in my sig. Never mind, but it will be shortly...
Olik 12-12-07, 11:23 PM	you dont have a sig. not one i can see anyway. Why Decisive Mind? When designing the class, i wanted to focus on the combat aspect of the soul knife. the mind blade, to me, is really cool, and just unique as all get out. The soul knife seemed to generalize, and i wanted to capitalize. when you said earlier that this character appeared to be designed around the mind blade, you pretty much hit the nail on the head there, BUT, i dont want to pigeon hole the character so that he cant do anything but kill (although thats not necessarily a bad thing). Aside from being pretty damn good with his mind blade, i think as a by-product, he has more general control over his brain and the workings. faster reflexes specifically. hes quick, and hes powerful. or rather, hes got a really sharp sword (which is what all the extra attack bonus, to me, signifies. his mind blade can cut stuff up pretty well). so i suppose my final answer would be 30% flavor, 20% functionality, 50% a mind oriented ability. And just to clarify what you are looking at for patience ability: you can opt to use it or not use it (like opting to do a full attack or standard attack), but if you DONT use it (full attack, i suppose) then you dont gain the benefit of ANY of the other abilities? or you just dont gain the dex to damage benefit of Patience? sorry if im making you be redundant. we'll just call it ignorance on my part =)
dman11235 12-12-07, 11:24 PM	Look at the first post I made, it will be there. Sigs show up in the first post you make on that page.
Olik 12-13-07, 12:47 AM	Thanks for the pointer on the sig. it was right where you said it'd be =) I think im having difficulty with this character because of a combination of me being Biased (im designing it around an idea i like. naturally ill be biased) and the fact that i wont be able to test it out until Saturday, when the D&D group im in meets up. id like to have something workable so that i can test it out and get a better idea of how the PrC flows. does this work well? what am i not using at all. what isnt good enough. what is too good. all that sort of stuff. im new to this so i dont have a good system and technique down. As it stands i like all the abilities pretty equally. i want Patience but at the same time i want Synapse just as bad. I keep wanting to swap stuff around, but i cant decide what i would like to give up to a later level in exchange. I would play this class for the flare it brings. its a frikkin mind blade thats pretty sweet, but at the same time if i was more drawn towards spells, i wouldnt go with this class. i like that it doesnt snatch up all the options and make other classes obsolete but at the same time its refined down to doing something very well that might be a very much needed part of a party and people might say "yeah, that would be something we could definitely use" rather than "well we already have X class. why do we want that instead?" I think if i put in Decisive Mind instead of Mental Momentum, it would round out the class more, helping to focus in on the niche this PrC is meant to fill, and i wouldnt be giving up something class defining. Im going to make the ability swap, and then i would like your painfully honest input. my GM is yet to get back to me about what ive sent him but he hasnt gotten the most updated version yet.
dman11235 12-13-07, 02:06 AM	Get rid of the "takes a move action to charge" on Synapse. Which makes a great capstone by the way. It should just take the amount of time it takes to gain focus, which is a free action right now. It's should be changed to swift though (quick focus). It still takes the expenditure of energy. As I'm really tired right now (3 hours of sleep), I'll give you my "painfully honest" opinion and rundown tomorrow.
Olik 12-13-07, 02:35 AM	Im going to make a 5 level progression version to see how that looks. im also changing some of the prerequisites because i dont think tumble is on line but honestly i dont know any other "combat" oriented skills would be a good replacement. ill post up the 5 level in a bit when i condense and touch it up.
Olik 12-13-07, 02:49 AM	Adept Soul Blade "My mind is greater than your matter" ENTRY REQUIREMENTS :Alignment: Any :Skills: Concentration 13, Autohypnosis 6 :Feats: Psionic Meditation, Narrow Mind. Shape Mind Blade Class Skills Adept Soul Blade’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis) Climb (Str) Concentration (Con) Craft (Int) Jump (Str) Knowledge - Psionics (Int) Listen (Wis) Spot (Wis) Tumble (Dex) Skills Points at Each Level : 4 + int Hit Dice: d10 Adept Soul Blade Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 1 +1 +0 +0 +0 Mental Fusion, Patience, Weapon Specialization (Mind Blade) 2 +2 +1 +1 +1 Decisive Mind, Quick Focus 3 +3 +1 +1 +1 Greater Weapon Specialization (Mind Blade) 4 +4 +1 +2 +2 Improved Critical (Mind Blade) 5 +5 +2 +2 +2 Devastating Critical, Synapse Weapon Proficiencies: Adept Soul Blade gains no new weapon or armor proficiencies. Patience: The Adept Soul Blade knows when to strike, and when to defend. His intense combat training has granted him Patience, which allows him to add his full dexterity modifier to his attack and 1/2 (round down) dex modifier to damage. Mental Fusion: The Adept Soul Blade must select one weapon form that he is to become a master of. If the Mind blade is in his designated weapon form, he gains a +5 damage. If the mind blade is in any other form, the Adept Soul Blade does not receive this bonus. Synapse: The Adept Soul Blade has sharpened his mind for combat. this ability requires Psionic focus, and takes a movement action to charge. By expending your psionic focus as an immediate action, you may make an AoO against an opponent who just missed you. Decisive Mind: +5 to Initiative Modifier. Quick Focus: an Adept Soul Blade may choose to gain psionic focus as a swift action, but cannot gain psionic focus more than once per round. If psionic focus is gained before initiative is rolled, and is used on the Soul Blades initial attack, he may use a free action to gain focus again before his turn ends, because he did not gain focus during the combat round. In this scenario, if an enemy provokes an attack of opportunity from the Soul Blade, this focus can be expended again, but if the Soul Blade takes lethal damage while a quick focus is active, he immediately loses his focus because it is not as strong as a standard psionic focus gain (regular movement action). The Soul Blade must state that he is using quick focus before he makes his constitution check. Devastating Critical: The Adept is able to take advantage of his opponent’s weaknesses, adding 1 to his critical multiplier. EX: 19-20 / x2 becomes 19-20 / x3. x3 becomes x4. x4 becomes x5. NOTE: im thinking about droping Devastating Critical. i like what it brings to the class, but i dont know if its going to be one of those class needs, since it does focus mainly on using weapons. i dont know if 2 abilities per level is ok, and i also dont like how Improved critical and GWS are right next to each other.
dman11235 12-13-07, 02:24 PM	No, ten levels. This is definitely a ten level class. You'd have to change a LOT to make it a 5 level. Okay, time for my critique, as promised. In a neat and orderly fashion too! Prerequisites: Change the prereqs to include +5 BAB and mindblade special ability. Currently, any psionic character can qualify. Also, tumble is not a necessary thing for the class, therefore: drop it. Another thing to consider is adding Mind blade enhancement +1 to the prereqs. But I'd advise angainst it. Class Skills+HD: These are fine as is. Saves: What? What is with those saves? Have reflex and will be good, fort be poor. Do this by adding 2 to each reflex and will number. The formula is (good): 2+1/2 class levels (bad): 1/3 class levels. Round down. Class Features (descending in order of acquiring, and then as a whole): Mental fusion: good. Patience: You removed the restrictions. That's all fine and dandy, but it removed every part of this class being a "one-hit wonder". Put the "if you take a standard action to make a single attack, ..." stipulation back in, or change the flavor (and entire direction) of the entire class. You'll also have to change the name of the ability. When you put the single attack thing back, state that it works with spring attack (just to be sure, since it's not it's own standard action, it will work anyway, but still). Also, state that it only works with the mindblade. Improved speed of thought: Doesn't fit with the patience ability, acts as if they have the feat, this reeks of "my PrCs character". Get rid of it. Weapon Specialization: check Quick focus: check Decisive Mind: Again, does not fit with patience idea, but could be construed as the patience of going first so you can wait. It could go both ways. The problem is that an initiative penalty is a BAD thing, so I guess this is fine. Material Inability: This is what mental fusion should have been. It's got the mindblade specialist flavor, it's great, I say yee-haw to it. But keep both of them. The problem is that it's an attack bonus. A flat-out attack bonus. That is a powerful ability. A solution to this would be to have it require the expenditure of psionic focus to reap the benifits (but keep the penalties). A reduction in the severity will also help (+2 bonus, -2 penalty). GWS: Yipee! Keen Focus: Great ability, but remove psionic endowment from the list. Improved Critical: cheers! Devastating Critical: Also a plus. Synapse: despite what I said last might, synapse is not the perfect cap for this class. That is what I get for three hours of sleep. Synapse belongs early on. Like level 2. What belongs at the 10th level is a different ability, called Synapse (or something similar, like synapse, but more powerful). What belongs at level ten is this: "You have grown so adept at waiting for the right time to strike that a foe's miss becomes your hit. You may now make an attack of opportunity whenever an opponent misses you and you have your psionic focus." May change the wording, but you get what I'm saying. As a whole: Weapon Specialization and GWS are kind of odd-ball abilities, but do work. It's kind of dense (the class) in that there are a lot of abilities. You can improve on this by getting rid of the specialization tree and psychic strike stacking. Also, GET RID OF THAT WORDING ON THE STACKING!!!!!! As it is, this PrC is exactly like the soulknife but better, since you take absolutely no hits to enter it (since it stacks with soulknife to determine soulknife class abilities: all of them). You must specifically state what stacks. And those things that should stack are mindblade enhancements, and the enhancement bonus on your mindblade. A case might be made for psychic strike, but you'd have to greatly reduce the power of this class (as well as change the flavor a bit). So only have it stack for mindblade stuff.
Olik 12-13-07, 05:16 PM	I made the changes you suggested, and over-all i think its starting to shape up. some concerns: after looking at the abilities and what they've become, im generally happy with the way things are looking, but at the same time, i dont think Material Inability is really something that flows with the class. even after lowering the penalties and bonuses, its still somewhat of a stretch because honestly if i was that good with a mind blade, i wouldnt give it up. i think if i could figure out a way to say "if you arent using your mind blade, you dont get any of the fun toys this class offers" but make it sound alittle better, it would negate the reason to have Mental Inability as a class feature. At the same time im trying to figure out something to do with Synapse, so for the time being i changed it to not requiring expendiature of Psionic Focus. Basically its a free attack when someone misses you, and i like it that way. Some other ideas i had were for more defensive abilities, or something that has a pretty fair ipso facto feel to compensate for the loss of Mental Inability when i remove it. the only thing is, i dont know exactly how these new abilities are going to work. Lucid Defense: i want this to be a full defensive type ability. maybe if you are taking a full defensive action, you can add some of your BAB to your AC. i didnt want to add another attack from this because it would take away the spark of Synapse (in my mind anyway). This would probably be the replacement of Decisive Mind. i want to get rid of it, but i want an ability that has Adept Soul Blade written all over it. Violent Mind: this would probably be the replacement for Mental Inability. I want this to be almost if not the exact opposite of Lucid Defense. by adding some of your AC to your BAB, you gain a higher accuracy but it would imply that you are making yourself vulnerable. i dont think the "im really angry" feel this gives would fit to a class that is mostly about calmly waiting for the right time to strike, but i felt that it should have something to bring diversity to the table.
dman11235 12-13-07, 05:38 PM	Really angry equaling combat bonuses is rage. First things I will comment on are the use of immediate and swift actions. They can only be used 1/round, you do not need to state that the ability can be used 1/round. Also, an AoO is not an immediate action, and so synapse should not be an immediate action (thereby not limiting you to either psionic focus or an attack). Next I will ask: what exactly are you trying to make this class into? What do you want to accomplish? Is it the mindblade mastery? Single (mindblade) attack god? Or something else?
Olik 12-13-07, 06:24 PM	I want it to have the ability to focus all of its "strength" into one attack. i dont want to crush its hope for doing anything ise at the same time, though im realizing i cant really have my cake and eat it too on this. the problem im having is that i want that single attack to be something the player can rely on, but at the same time it needs to be balanced so that its not a definate hit every single time. that in my opinion would take the fun out of combat. i would have sooner just said "this character automatically hits. you might as well just roll your damage about 50 times at the start of the session, and every time you WOULD have rolled to see if you hit, you just go down the list of damage and apply that to the monster you are fighting." I want 90% of the abilities to be focused on the mind blade and its use. i also wanted to try and bring some utility to it, allowing players to make the class unique enough to call their own. maybe i have too much ambition for something that shouldnt be given a strings length of utility, but i can live with that. 90% mind blade focus, 10% flare. thats my goal. flare being "i can do this neat thing nobody else can, and if im creative enough i can use it unconventionally" so its not limited to banal "i hit stuff" mode all the time. Edit - thats what some of the other abilities were gearing towards. the flare aspect, but they just didnt match very well with the class as a whole. i want to get rid of Mental Inability and perhaps Decisive Mind, but i want to replace them with some flare stuff that i feel the class is missing. once i figure out some decent replacements and get the wording and mechanics correct, then its just a matter of playing legos: putting the pieces in the right spots to make it feel and look right. Edit2 - i did a preliminary build of the character as it stands last night. i also built a fighter/ranger class made for two weapon fighting to see how it stands. the ranger/fighter was able to make 7 attacks, the highest attack bonus being 32. with the Adept Soul Blade, right now the highest modifier is 35. the fighter/ranger had 1d10+21 damage, and the Adept Soul Blade has 1d10+34 damage. if that looks fair enough, let me know, but right now 7 attacks and 32 attack modifier vs 1 attack and 35 attack modifier doesnt look so clean cut.
dman11235 12-13-07, 07:13 PM	I've seen a single attack focused soulknife played, and it was pretty sweet. He did 70+damage per attack. However, he could do this 1/2 rounds. That 1d10+34 is low compared to what I though you could get up to with this class. Also, you are forgetting psychic strike. Another thing you are forgetting (not forgetting, but not putting together) is that yes, you don't do as much damage over a turn as a TWF rogue or a raging barbarian could. But you are almost guarunteed that damage, as it is your primary attack. The others need a lot of low attack bonus attacks to hit in order to do massive damage. Another thing to consider is your AC. You can feel free to pump that up if you add dex to damage. Also, your stats would be strength/dex primary, con/wisdom secondary, and with build tweaking you could change that around a lot. One level of swordsage or monk (with tashalatora) will have you prioritizing dex and wisdom for an insane AC. Focus on dex/strength for decent AC and good damage (make sure to take some damage dealing enhancements). Another comment: for combat foresight, get rid of dex to attack (unless it replaces strength) and add full dex to damage (stacks with strength).
Olik 12-13-07, 08:07 PM	I feel stupid for failing to mention that the characters i built were level 16. i want to try and give this PrC a go in my groups next game and we are currently level 16, so i did the preliminary builds at level 16 to see where it would stand compared to the other players characters. if i give up dex to attack, id have one sub par attack bonus (28) compared to another classes fairly decent attack bonus (32). i dont like that. the focus isnt damage on this character mainly. its a synergy of both. 28 attack bonus at level 16, WF, GWF, WS, GWS, Melee Weapon Mastery, Power Attack, Improved Critical, and Power Critical = 28 attack bonus? no thanks. id rather just make a full ranger and attack stuff once per round and get my 32 attack bonus. the only thing this class carries over from SK is the mind blade enhancement and enhancement bonus. no Psychic Strike. no Knife to the Soul. no Multiple Throw. none of that. just +X mindblade, and +X Mindblade enhancement. i dont want insane attack bonus, but i want it to stand out. i dont need insane damage, so im not really worried about boosting that up. I went ahead and built the character to use a bastard sword form of the mindblade (im calling it the katana) which is the 1d10. hes holding it two handed, so that turns my +8 str into +12 str. Ive got collision as an enhancement on the mindblade (currently +3) so thats +5. GWS = +4 (i think) Melee Weapon Mastery is another +2. then half my dex mod = +3 and the fact that its a +3 mindblade adds to that. +5 more damage from Mental Fusion puts me at 12+5+5+6+3+3 = 34 (the +6 is +4 GWS and +2 MWM) Attack, where ive got it now, looks like this: 13 BAB +8 from strength (i wish there was something i could do to give me +1.5x str mod to attack) then +2 from MWM and another +2 from GWF. +7 from my dex mod, and +3 from the mindblade itself. 13+8+7+4+3 = 35 (the +4 is +2 MWM and +2 GWF). The Mindblade itself has a critical range of 17-20/x3 which im very happy with. My AC currently is 30. 10 base + 10 armor (Mithril breastplate) +6 dex mod +4 deflection (+4 protection item). flatfooted is 24, touch is 20. im happy with that aswell. HP comes out to 204. (11d10)+(5d8)+(16x7). i think thats correct. i probably screwed that up. and unless collision functions different when the weapon is being wielded as two handed, then i think the damage and attack are correct. oh also my initiative is at 16. +7 dex then the two feats, Decisive Mind +5 and Improved Initiative +4. im happy with the way that looks too. All of this was built on a 5 level progression version of the Adept Soulblade. i like the way it feels as a character, regardless of the progression (since its all the same stuff, just more or less levels to progress through) i just want to clean up some of the loos end stuff. Mainly Material Inability. but i dont have a good item to put there. Definately Strength and Agility being the focus of this class, but i want to bring some of the "i have a big brain" flavor into it so im thinking about making the Lucid Defense ability add Intel modifier to AC durring a full defensive action. that would add some more AC to be noticeable, not be overpowered (inless you have a ton of intel) and play on the mind oriented feel of the class. Intell or wisdom. whichever fits in better. I supose it would be wisdom. Edit - All this sounds like im building the character for me and what i want, well i cant build it for bob in Peduska or Joe in Lansing, because im not Bob or Joe. Im building this character because i wanted to see something that capitalizes on the Soul Knife's Mind Blade ability. i dont need this character to be the new "i kill everything in one hit" and i dont want it to be that way. that takes the fun away from it. yeah we like big numbers, but when thats ALL you do, it gets old really fast. atleast for me it is, and i limit things so it wont be abused. if i COULD hit stuff for 200 damage a pop with this character, why wouldnt i? it would be stupid NOT to. knowing this, i dont NEED to hit stuff for 200 a pop, so why should i be able to? thats my method. When people say "hey i rolled up that PrC you made and this and this and this should be changed, or this is what i think about how it plays, etc etc" then ill start making the character with Bob and Joe in mind. i REALLY doubt anyone is going to play this character besides me, but with that potential there, i want to keep the class potential limited. hes not a god. and he shouldnt suck with his only attack, where a class with 7 attacks has a higher attack bonus on his first 4 swings. +34 damage is fine. he should be critting quite a bit with 17-20, the crit mod is x3, and i have improved critical to help out there. so i think his critical potential will wax it out, and i like that feel better anyway. This character doesnt swing really hard and just bludgeon people into a red patch of goo. the whole focus behind it is his precision and timing, and mental agility. maybe 35/34 is a nice area to keep it at, for level 16 i dont think its shabby. Edit2 - This is frustrating me that i cant make it what i want it to emulate, so youll have to ignore some of the venting.
dman11235 12-14-07, 01:54 AM	At level 16 a +30 attack bonus is pretty good. However, you did some things that would throw off the data. You forgot miscelanious stuffs (ioun stones etc.). And I have a feeling that you forgot some penalties for the TWF as well (-4 for using two one-handers). And your AC is a bit low for what you had. HP is great. Not many get to boast 200+ at even level 20. And another thing you forgot: spring attack. That TWF ranger/fighter is going to be right next to the enemy, whereas you have the option of being away from him. Using a +8 dex (16+4 levels+6 item), at level 16 (using the 10 level version) I get attack bonus +31 for that attack. That's +14 BAB (+5, +9 class), +8 dex, +2 MWM, +4 mindblade, +1 GWF. That's a pretty good attack bonus at level 16 for normal play. My 50+str barbarian had a +42 at level 20 (might have been a little different). If you spent more money you could get that attack bonus higher, or if you had a bard. I'm perfectly fine with getting a bonus on the attack due to patience (or whatever the ability is called), just not adding two stats to the attack bonus. But something small. Like a +5 bonus. At the most.
Olik 12-14-07, 02:59 AM	Looking at my ranger/fighter character sheet: Olik, Dwarven Fighter5/Ranger11 melee attack bonus: BAB 16 + 8 str mod = 24 +5 adamantine Dwarven waraxe TWF, ITWF, GTWF, WS, MWM, Slashing Flurry, TW Rend. if i attack with one weapon = 32/27/22/17 if i attack with both weapons: 28/23/18/13 28/23/18 and my Dire Boar mount gets 1 gore attack at +12... i thought it sounded cool, and they are pretty cheap so i have a few spare Dire Boars hanging around in town =) damage is.. 1d10+17 +1d6 Frost Damage. 19-20/x3 Total AC 25 = 10 + 10 armor +3 dex mod + 2 deflection Str 27 dex 19 con 24 Wis 14 charisma 9 (hes an ugly bastard) my point here is, this character can choose to make one standard action attack at +32 attack bonus. his damage isnt anything compared to the Adept Soul Blade, but his attack is almost on par. I COULD attack multiple times, but if i chose not to, its +32. single attacks arent even the character's Forte. With the Adept Soul Blade, the single attack IS his forte, but another class is doing it almost as good. i like it that way. i tried to pump up my melee with that class, and even with +3 more BAB, and a +5 weapon, hes just BARELY under the Adept Soul Blade i made. that makes my Adep better at single attacks, but not TOO much better. If i drop the Combat Foresight (Patience) bonus to attack from dex mod to +5, he would be exactly the same as my dwarven figher/ranger. no good. thats like having a rogue casting spells at the same level as a wizard or sorcerer. it means that the wizard is pointless since the rogue can do that same job. (dont factor in utility. im just using it as an extreme example to emphasise my point). So if we aleviate the dex mod to attack bonus that "Patience" is giving, i would need to find another way to boost up attack bonus again. basically its just a rose by any other name. id still need the attack bonus to come from somewhere. i like how the +dex mod scales, and at level 20 i think it would be on par progressively with other melee classes, considering everyone can get better items to boost their stats that in turn boost their attack bonus and help them out. if i keep all the abilities the Adept gets as static, then he doesnt scale up as he levels. he just stays static no matter how good the gear he has, is. I know that doesnt hold true for EVERYTHING, but honestly im finding it easier to boost my damage than i am to boost my attack. I hate to take the standpoint i am, because honestly i cant thank you enough for the help and ideas youve given. more than any of the other hundreds of members on this forum, and i really appreciate it. my DM sent me back an email saying some of the basic things we covered on this forum, but hes pretty much kept it vague. not an email type of guy and hes always sleeping when im awake so i havent had much help from that side. BUT at the same time, i dont know how else to keep the attack just above my ranger (which is pretty much my standard im using) when i keep reducing the Adepts abilities down further and further, making him basically a gimped to hell TWF ranger/fighter, but he doesnt have the TWF, or the spells, or the BAB to back it up. PS: as a side note, my ranger has 228 HP, and 30 AC with Barkskin up, and if my rangers gear was on par with the Adept's (he doesnt have to buy weapons) then i could afford a ring of protection +4 instead of the +2 one ive got. with all things fair, the ranger/fighter would have more AC, more HP, and more utility than the Adept, but thats not the main focus. the fact is, if i take away the +dex mod to attack bonus from the Adept, the Ranger/Fighter beats the Adept at his own game AND has more to offer to the group. "Two stats to the same skill" doesnt justify making a class fail horribly at what its meant to do. which is security of attack. make the one hit he gets to make, REALLY count. PPS: at level 16, the Adept Soul Blade i made has Fighter1/Soulknife10/ASB5. i used the 5 level progression so he would have a +3 mindblade with +2 enhancement on it. (15 total effective Soulknife levels)
dman11235 12-14-07, 03:05 PM	You know, I just reread the intro to this post. I must say that yes, the soulknife has problems. It is considered one of the worst classes out there. Not as bad as the samurai (CW) or the swashbuckler (also CW), but it's not that great. It is weak, and there's not much you can do to remedy it. It is also one of the weirdest flavors out there, and that's probably why. If you wanted this to be a boost in power to the soulknife, you should have done a fix instead. I have been PEACHing this with the soulknife power level in mind (maybe a little more). Ranger caster level is only 5 for him, so barkskin wouldn't be that good. And he has to spend the action to cast it. Also, the damage difference. And the ranger doesn't benifit from most of his class features. (combat styles require light or no armor). Also, how are you affording all that? You have two +6 adamantine weapons, which cost a total of 144,000 plus adamantine. I'm not sure what the wealth is at that level, but it's not much more than that. More mistakes: soulknifes do better single classed, as I showed in my post (my attack bonus was higher than yours, if you discounted your dex). You have great damage to boast on that one attack (you may wish to switch it to 2xdex on that attack, or just add dex and deal double damage). You touched on the advantage of the soulknife under the PS: they don't spend money on their weapon. They CAN afford that +3 deflection/+3 natural armor boost, and other things. And the ranger/fight does not still beat the adept at his own game, you just think he is. The adept's game is delivering a single powerful attack a round, right? Give him a large damage boost (dexX2 to damage or double (damage+dex)) and that is his powerful attack. Add in a small (+5 is actually a large attack boost) attack boost and you're set. Another thing you touched apon: you found it easier to boost damage than attack. That's because attack bonus is far, far more valuable. The ONLY place where this has not held is in the Braces of Archery.
Olik 12-15-07, 12:43 PM	level 16 PC starting wealth: 260,000 GP. +5 Mithril Breatplate = 26,430 GP +6 Adamantite Dwarven Waraxe x2 = 144,000 +6 str belt = 36,000 Not sure on what my other items are at the moment off the top of my head. Adept Soul Blade: lvl 16 (260,000 GP) +5 Mithril Breastpate = 26,430 +6 str belt = 36k +6 dex gloves = 36k +4 protection ring = 32k? +4 resistance cloak = 32k? +6 con necklace = 36k +6 wisdom ? = 36k rough total cost = 234,430
dman11235 12-16-07, 11:08 PM	Get rid of the +6 wisdom and buy wings of flying. Get rid of the +4 deflection for +3 deflection and +3 natural. I just increased your AC by 2 and gave you flight. Also, stats matter, and there are other things that you want.