Swashbuckler + Fighter + Lasher = buttkicker [Archive] - Wizards Community

Swashbuckler + Fighter + Lasher = buttkicker [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheRealOrion
06-29-07, 03:51 PM I just have to crow about this a little. It's kind of an accidental class combo, but it worked out beautifully.

Swashbuckler 3 gives you Insightful Strike (Int bonus to damage most of the time) and Weapon Finesse, as well as a crap-load of useful social skills (Diplomacy is a powerful thing). Hint: take a high Int score!

Fighter 3 gives you a pile of miscellaneous feats and some good very solid stats.

Lasher 4 gives you basically a Flurry of Whips, sneak attack, and a +2 to damage (on top of Insightful strike), and Third Hand which is just damned useful, especially in combat ("Oh, the wizard needs that thing? [snap!] Here you go.").

Using a mere +1 whip-dagger, I'm up to three attacks a round, +1d6 each if the enemy is Flanked, and my damage bonus is +7 (Int + Str +2 for the class).

If there's one thing I might do differently if I were to make up the class combo from scratch, I'd see if I could tweak the numbers by making him a straight Fighter/Lasher or Swashbuckler/Lasher. The class hopping might have bitten me in the butt a little. I'd probably go human, too, for the bonus feat and skill points (the character's a half-elf right now, which is great for the social skills).

Still, as is, I took out a dragon last night. With a friggin' whip a big knife on the end. This rocks.
Arminel
06-29-07, 08:26 PM I posted something down a bit about doing almost the same thing, but replacing Fighter with Duskblade to use Arcane Channeling. The build seems shaky to me (as have most experimental builds I've made), but sounds like it would be fun. Large size, stretch weapon (from PHB2), and Arcane Channeling = touch spells at 25 feet <3
fastspawn
06-29-07, 09:00 PM Where is the PrC Lasher from? And why take level 3 in fighter? its the most useless class level ever made in DnD history.
LordFlatulence
06-29-07, 09:47 PM I'm not sure that a Fighter could possibly be seriously considered the most useless class in D+D history, with a high BAB, good Hit Points and a veritable armada of feats, it really is quite equisit. Therefore, I am assuming you are being sarcastic.

Yes, this does look like a very interesting build. I also would like to know where the Lasher is from, I've never seen it before. The whip-dagger seems to ring a bell, but I can't quite place it anywhere... What dice of damage does it do?

What kind of dragon? I remember a friend of mine playing an Orc Warlord who jumped inside an Old (or something) Dragon's mouth to prevent his grunts from being breath weaponed. That was a fun battle! :D

Besides, I am generally a big fan of builds that give you Intellect stats to other stuff. One of my current characters - a human Sorceror 6 / Paladin 2 / Monk 1 / Eldritch Knight 3 with the feats Practised Spellcaster, Force of Personality and Ascetic Mage. Charisma to AC and all saves, and Charisma instead of Wisdom on Will saves. 8th level Sorceror casting with CL 12 and with Flurry of Blows has +12/+12/+7 on attacks. On that note, anything to get Charisma to attacks or damage? He already has Smite Evil, but I would like something always in effect.
TheRealOrion
06-30-07, 12:28 AM The Lasher is out of the old 3rd Ed. Sword and Fist book, so it's not technically in v3.5 but most DMs will allow it if you work out some kinks. Here (http://www.gozzilioni.net/srd/pers/prestige%5Cd3eLasher.htm) is a link to it, if you're interested.

The whip-dagger is also in that book, to match up with the Lasher I assume, but it's in the Arms and Equipment Guide too. It's 1d6 19-20/x2 and it does real damage regardless of armour. It's been called the "short sword on a rope." In all other respects, it's just like a whip. Doesn't threaten, 15-foot reach, yadda yadda. (Notice that the first thing the Lasher gets is a whip that's actually a real weapon.)

I took three levels of Fighter because I got to level 3 as a Swashbuckler and the next few levels of stuff didn't interest me, so I sacrificed the skill points (which hurt!) to pick up some feats. Then I took Lasher at CL 7 because it took that long to come up with the prerequs. If I had it all to do over again, I'd go about it quite differently (including not wasting a feat on a quickblade rapier, still don't know what I was thinking on that one) and maybe redistributing the Swash/Fighter levels differently.

I looove the idea of delivering spells through a whip. That's just an awesome visual. I'm tempted to start taking Sorcerer levels just to try it out.

It was a Chaos Dragon. I wasn't the only person working on the problem, but I think I did about 2/3 of the damage. It was a team effort, though. We had several attack bonuses layered: Inspire Courage, Bless, Flanked target, Tactical Precision, and something else, I think. So between all of that, I ended up with a +9 to hit and +2d6 per hit (Sneak Attack plus Tactical Precision). I was using Crack of Fate (Flurry of Whips, basically) and was Hasted, so four attacks per round at +7 and 3d6 +7 damage per hit. I got three attacks into my sequence, did 46HPs, and the dragon was dead. Everyone had been softening it up for a few rounds by then, though, including me.
fastspawn
06-30-07, 02:04 AM I'm not sure that a Fighter could possibly be seriously considered the most useless class in D+D history, with a high BAB, good Hit Points and a veritable armada of feats, it really is quite equisit. Therefore, I am assuming you are being sarcastic.

I am not referring to fighter as a class. I am referring to fighter 3 levels as a level.
the good thing about fighter is feats, and its level 4 ability to take weapon specialization. Because of this level 3 fighter has no feat progression, and has the same BAB progression but poorer skill points as a level 4 swashbuckler. The only thing about is i can see that it provides a +1 to will and reflex saves vs a +1 to fortitude save.

Why don't you do a Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 2 and go straight into Lasher since the BAB requirement is +5, and you only need 2 feats (WF and Exotic WP). As a human you would have 5 feats and this point in time.

If you really really want to enter this PrC at level 7, why don't you try getting a level of Barbarian instead. Then you can go crazy on the Whipping. or Ranger. Anything with BAB+1 and equivalent HP.
Arminel
06-30-07, 02:30 AM The Lasher is out of the old 3rd Ed. Sword and Fist book, so it's not technically in v3.5 but most DMs will allow it if you work out some kinks. Here (http://www.gozzilioni.net/srd/pers/prestige%5Cd3eLasher.htm) is a link to it, if you're interested.

The whip-dagger is also in that book, to match up with the Lasher I assume, but it's in the Arms and Equipment Guide too. It's 1d6 19-20/x2 and it does real damage regardless of armour. It's been called the "short sword on a rope." In all other respects, it's just like a whip. Doesn't threaten, 15-foot reach, yadda yadda. (Notice that the first thing the Lasher gets is a whip that's actually a real weapon.)

I took three levels of Fighter because I got to level 3 as a Swashbuckler and the next few levels of stuff didn't interest me, so I sacrificed the skill points (which hurt!) to pick up some feats. Then I took Lasher at CL 7 because it took that long to come up with the prerequs. If I had it all to do over again, I'd go about it quite differently (including not wasting a feat on a quickblade rapier, still don't know what I was thinking on that one) and maybe redistributing the Swash/Fighter levels differently.

I looove the idea of delivering spells through a whip. That's just an awesome visual. I'm tempted to start taking Sorcerer levels just to try it out.

It was a Chaos Dragon. I wasn't the only person working on the problem, but I think I did about 2/3 of the damage. It was a team effort, though. We had several attack bonuses layered: Inspire Courage, Bless, Flanked target, Tactical Precision, and something else, I think. So between all of that, I ended up with a +9 to hit and +2d6 per hit (Sneak Attack plus Tactical Precision). I was using Crack of Fate (Flurry of Whips, basically) and was Hasted, so four attacks per round at +7 and 3d6 +7 damage per hit. I got three attacks into my sequence, did 46HPs, and the dragon was dead. Everyone had been softening it up for a few rounds by then, though, including me.

See, I'm not sure if you'd be able to do it with a sorcerer. Hence the Duskblade. What was the real idea behind it was that once you get Duskblade 13, you get the sick Arcane Channeling (full attack) where you could channel something like a Shocking Grasp/Vampiric Touch/Touch of Idiocy through each attack at a huge range.

So something like...

Duskblade 13/Lasher 4/Swashbuckler 3

But in some other order. Int for spellcasting, skills, and damage. The nice thing about insightful strike is you don't have to use your dex on finessable weapons to get the damage bonus. At level 4, you get the +2 damage. Otherwise, I'd say drop a level of Duelist (3.0 version, Sword and Fist) for the bonus AC from Int, or Fighter for the feat. The best thing about a build like these is that you'll have a 20 BAB :D
TheRealOrion
06-30-07, 11:22 AM I'd forgotten about weapon specialization. I might grab another level of fighter at some point, although I'm at CR 10 now and levels are hard to come by and the Lasher bonus abilities are pretty sweet.
Twylyght
06-30-07, 06:09 PM If there's one thing I might do differently if I were to make up the class combo from scratch, I'd see if I could tweak the numbers by making him a straight Fighter/Lasher or Swashbuckler/Lasher. The class hopping might have bitten me in the butt a little. I'd probably go human, too, for the bonus feat and skill points (the character's a half-elf right now, which is great for the social skills).

Well There is always a Swashbuckler/Rogue/Lasher, with Daring Outlaw from Complete Scoundrel.

You get into lasher 1 level later, but at 7th level youd get your first lasher level and be at 4d6 sneak attack, have alot of skill points, and only be 1 BAB behind. looking forward, if you could live without Death Spiral, I am fond of a Swash3/Rog8/Lash9 as a final build with the two-weapon feats.

+18 BAB, +9d6 Sneak attacks, Crack of doom(+greater2-weapon = 9attacks), improved uncanny dodge, evasion, trap sense +2, grace +2, dodge bonus +2, and a pretty good pile of skillpoints. It does pretty well :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheRealOrion 06-29-07, 03:51 PM	I just have to crow about this a little. It's kind of an accidental class combo, but it worked out beautifully. Swashbuckler 3 gives you Insightful Strike (Int bonus to damage most of the time) and Weapon Finesse, as well as a crap-load of useful social skills (Diplomacy is a powerful thing). Hint: take a high Int score! Fighter 3 gives you a pile of miscellaneous feats and some good very solid stats. Lasher 4 gives you basically a Flurry of Whips, sneak attack, and a +2 to damage (on top of Insightful strike), and Third Hand which is just damned useful, especially in combat ("Oh, the wizard needs that thing? [snap!] Here you go."). Using a mere +1 whip-dagger, I'm up to three attacks a round, +1d6 each if the enemy is Flanked, and my damage bonus is +7 (Int + Str +2 for the class). If there's one thing I might do differently if I were to make up the class combo from scratch, I'd see if I could tweak the numbers by making him a straight Fighter/Lasher or Swashbuckler/Lasher. The class hopping might have bitten me in the butt a little. I'd probably go human, too, for the bonus feat and skill points (the character's a half-elf right now, which is great for the social skills). Still, as is, I took out a dragon last night. With a friggin' whip a big knife on the end. This rocks.
Arminel 06-29-07, 08:26 PM	I posted something down a bit about doing almost the same thing, but replacing Fighter with Duskblade to use Arcane Channeling. The build seems shaky to me (as have most experimental builds I've made), but sounds like it would be fun. Large size, stretch weapon (from PHB2), and Arcane Channeling = touch spells at 25 feet <3
fastspawn 06-29-07, 09:00 PM	Where is the PrC Lasher from? And why take level 3 in fighter? its the most useless class level ever made in DnD history.
LordFlatulence 06-29-07, 09:47 PM	I'm not sure that a Fighter could possibly be seriously considered the most useless class in D+D history, with a high BAB, good Hit Points and a veritable armada of feats, it really is quite equisit. Therefore, I am assuming you are being sarcastic. Yes, this does look like a very interesting build. I also would like to know where the Lasher is from, I've never seen it before. The whip-dagger seems to ring a bell, but I can't quite place it anywhere... What dice of damage does it do? What kind of dragon? I remember a friend of mine playing an Orc Warlord who jumped inside an Old (or something) Dragon's mouth to prevent his grunts from being breath weaponed. That was a fun battle! :D Besides, I am generally a big fan of builds that give you Intellect stats to other stuff. One of my current characters - a human Sorceror 6 / Paladin 2 / Monk 1 / Eldritch Knight 3 with the feats Practised Spellcaster, Force of Personality and Ascetic Mage. Charisma to AC and all saves, and Charisma instead of Wisdom on Will saves. 8th level Sorceror casting with CL 12 and with Flurry of Blows has +12/+12/+7 on attacks. On that note, anything to get Charisma to attacks or damage? He already has Smite Evil, but I would like something always in effect.
TheRealOrion 06-30-07, 12:28 AM	The Lasher is out of the old 3rd Ed. Sword and Fist book, so it's not technically in v3.5 but most DMs will allow it if you work out some kinks. Here (http://www.gozzilioni.net/srd/pers/prestige%5Cd3eLasher.htm) is a link to it, if you're interested. The whip-dagger is also in that book, to match up with the Lasher I assume, but it's in the Arms and Equipment Guide too. It's 1d6 19-20/x2 and it does real damage regardless of armour. It's been called the "short sword on a rope." In all other respects, it's just like a whip. Doesn't threaten, 15-foot reach, yadda yadda. (Notice that the first thing the Lasher gets is a whip that's actually a real weapon.) I took three levels of Fighter because I got to level 3 as a Swashbuckler and the next few levels of stuff didn't interest me, so I sacrificed the skill points (which hurt!) to pick up some feats. Then I took Lasher at CL 7 because it took that long to come up with the prerequs. If I had it all to do over again, I'd go about it quite differently (including not wasting a feat on a quickblade rapier, still don't know what I was thinking on that one) and maybe redistributing the Swash/Fighter levels differently. I looove the idea of delivering spells through a whip. That's just an awesome visual. I'm tempted to start taking Sorcerer levels just to try it out. It was a Chaos Dragon. I wasn't the only person working on the problem, but I think I did about 2/3 of the damage. It was a team effort, though. We had several attack bonuses layered: Inspire Courage, Bless, Flanked target, Tactical Precision, and something else, I think. So between all of that, I ended up with a +9 to hit and +2d6 per hit (Sneak Attack plus Tactical Precision). I was using Crack of Fate (Flurry of Whips, basically) and was Hasted, so four attacks per round at +7 and 3d6 +7 damage per hit. I got three attacks into my sequence, did 46HPs, and the dragon was dead. Everyone had been softening it up for a few rounds by then, though, including me.
fastspawn 06-30-07, 02:04 AM	I'm not sure that a Fighter could possibly be seriously considered the most useless class in D+D history, with a high BAB, good Hit Points and a veritable armada of feats, it really is quite equisit. Therefore, I am assuming you are being sarcastic. I am not referring to fighter as a class. I am referring to fighter 3 levels as a level. the good thing about fighter is feats, and its level 4 ability to take weapon specialization. Because of this level 3 fighter has no feat progression, and has the same BAB progression but poorer skill points as a level 4 swashbuckler. The only thing about is i can see that it provides a +1 to will and reflex saves vs a +1 to fortitude save. Why don't you do a Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 2 and go straight into Lasher since the BAB requirement is +5, and you only need 2 feats (WF and Exotic WP). As a human you would have 5 feats and this point in time. If you really really want to enter this PrC at level 7, why don't you try getting a level of Barbarian instead. Then you can go crazy on the Whipping. or Ranger. Anything with BAB+1 and equivalent HP.
Arminel 06-30-07, 02:30 AM	The Lasher is out of the old 3rd Ed. Sword and Fist book, so it's not technically in v3.5 but most DMs will allow it if you work out some kinks. Here (http://www.gozzilioni.net/srd/pers/prestige%5Cd3eLasher.htm) is a link to it, if you're interested. The whip-dagger is also in that book, to match up with the Lasher I assume, but it's in the Arms and Equipment Guide too. It's 1d6 19-20/x2 and it does real damage regardless of armour. It's been called the "short sword on a rope." In all other respects, it's just like a whip. Doesn't threaten, 15-foot reach, yadda yadda. (Notice that the first thing the Lasher gets is a whip that's actually a real weapon.) I took three levels of Fighter because I got to level 3 as a Swashbuckler and the next few levels of stuff didn't interest me, so I sacrificed the skill points (which hurt!) to pick up some feats. Then I took Lasher at CL 7 because it took that long to come up with the prerequs. If I had it all to do over again, I'd go about it quite differently (including not wasting a feat on a quickblade rapier, still don't know what I was thinking on that one) and maybe redistributing the Swash/Fighter levels differently. I looove the idea of delivering spells through a whip. That's just an awesome visual. I'm tempted to start taking Sorcerer levels just to try it out. It was a Chaos Dragon. I wasn't the only person working on the problem, but I think I did about 2/3 of the damage. It was a team effort, though. We had several attack bonuses layered: Inspire Courage, Bless, Flanked target, Tactical Precision, and something else, I think. So between all of that, I ended up with a +9 to hit and +2d6 per hit (Sneak Attack plus Tactical Precision). I was using Crack of Fate (Flurry of Whips, basically) and was Hasted, so four attacks per round at +7 and 3d6 +7 damage per hit. I got three attacks into my sequence, did 46HPs, and the dragon was dead. Everyone had been softening it up for a few rounds by then, though, including me. See, I'm not sure if you'd be able to do it with a sorcerer. Hence the Duskblade. What was the real idea behind it was that once you get Duskblade 13, you get the sick Arcane Channeling (full attack) where you could channel something like a Shocking Grasp/Vampiric Touch/Touch of Idiocy through each attack at a huge range. So something like... Duskblade 13/Lasher 4/Swashbuckler 3 But in some other order. Int for spellcasting, skills, and damage. The nice thing about insightful strike is you don't have to use your dex on finessable weapons to get the damage bonus. At level 4, you get the +2 damage. Otherwise, I'd say drop a level of Duelist (3.0 version, Sword and Fist) for the bonus AC from Int, or Fighter for the feat. The best thing about a build like these is that you'll have a 20 BAB :D
TheRealOrion 06-30-07, 11:22 AM	I'd forgotten about weapon specialization. I might grab another level of fighter at some point, although I'm at CR 10 now and levels are hard to come by and the Lasher bonus abilities are pretty sweet.
Twylyght 06-30-07, 06:09 PM	If there's one thing I might do differently if I were to make up the class combo from scratch, I'd see if I could tweak the numbers by making him a straight Fighter/Lasher or Swashbuckler/Lasher. The class hopping might have bitten me in the butt a little. I'd probably go human, too, for the bonus feat and skill points (the character's a half-elf right now, which is great for the social skills). Well There is always a Swashbuckler/Rogue/Lasher, with Daring Outlaw from Complete Scoundrel. You get into lasher 1 level later, but at 7th level youd get your first lasher level and be at 4d6 sneak attack, have alot of skill points, and only be 1 BAB behind. looking forward, if you could live without Death Spiral, I am fond of a Swash3/Rog8/Lash9 as a final build with the two-weapon feats. +18 BAB, +9d6 Sneak attacks, Crack of doom(+greater2-weapon = 9attacks), improved uncanny dodge, evasion, trap sense +2, grace +2, dodge bonus +2, and a pretty good pile of skillpoints. It does pretty well :)