The Cerebremancer [Archive] - Wizards Community

The Cerebremancer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
AQuebman
03-26-07, 10:18 AM I believed I spelled that right... anyways I am curious what people think of this class, what kind of feats folks have combined together that really make the combination of arcane & psionics effective. I know the negative is you get arcane spells and psionic powers at a slower rate but you have access to both sides.

Looking forward to the responses.
Salick
03-26-07, 10:58 AM Practiced Spellcaster and Practiced Manifester feats are a must for this combination of classes. I also recommend taking the astral construct power as a shaper or I believe there is a feat that lets you use a power from another discipline. Other then that do everything you can to raise intelligence. Headband of intellect, etc.. That keeps your spell DC respectable and adds to your power point total
teshen
03-26-07, 11:21 AM I believed I spelled that right... anyways I am curious what people think of this class, what kind of feats folks have combined together that really make the combination of arcane & psionics effective. I know the negative is you get arcane spells and psionic powers at a slower rate but you have access to both sides.
Psionics is pretty good in it's own right. I suggest looking into powers that have strong synergies and/or have lots of versatility built in rather than feats being the most important... although the feats are important as well.

In some cases, you'll have to take the expanded knowledge feat from The Expanded Psionics Handbook since some powers belong to one kind of manifester or another... and think about what manifester has the bulk of the powers you want, egoist, nomad, or whatever...

Since you're aware of the primary weakness (lost punch to both spells and manifester levels) take the 'practiced' feats like salick suggests or take spells and powers where the level matters less, like a lot of the utility spells/powers.
SlanderPanic
03-26-07, 12:03 PM Wizardry and psionics synergize with each other a lot better than arcane and divine magic do. You give up a lot less than, say, a wizard/cleric would. You also don't suffer from multiple-ability dependency the way a mystic theurge does.

Generally, for a cerebremancer, wizard/psion is the best class combo to start out with. Since your number of powers known is pretty limited (unless your campaign allows erudites,) you're probably best off concentrating on offensive powers and utility spells. Since you're probably going to be lagging behind your party's other spellcasters a bit, concentrate on fun stuff like battlefield control, ability damage, dispelling, and indirect damage. Ego whip is a great power for knocking down enemy fighter-types. Temporal acceleration synergizes beautifully with battlefield control effects and delayed blast fireballs. Personal mind blank is a must-have.

For feats, I agree that Practiced Manifester (Complete Psionic) and Practiced Spellcaster (Complete Arcane) are practically essential. You may also want to ask your DM if he's allowing Collegiate Wizard (Complete Arcane). Psicrystal Affinity is tremendously useful.

Hope all that helped.
Pariah_ex_mortis
03-26-07, 01:31 PM Feats are as noted above, you should also look into the spell: Mental Pinnacle, in the EXP. Another combo is the Wilder/Sorccer also only one Ability to power up, but has an interesting flare to it. I have also been looking into a PsiWar/Duskblade version of it. Hope it helps.

Cheers
AQuebman
03-26-07, 01:41 PM Im at work at the moment so i'll have to look into it but all of your ideas sound like they will help keep the class powerful yet mixed between the 2 sides. If im going for a very offensive caster im assuming kineticist and Evocation specialist would be the way to go in that manner. Im still unsure what route I wish to go but this class intrigues me quite a bit.
AQuebman
03-28-07, 03:42 PM Okay I pretty much know how I want to specialize with the class. My only other question is after the practice manifester/spellcaster feats, what other feats would be good for a build that split between arcane & psionics. Any suggestions?
Chimaera2000
03-29-07, 01:12 PM Improved Initiative is a good feat for any character and is a must-have for any full spellcaster once their essential feats (the aforementioned Practiced Spellcaster and Practiced Manifester) are taken.
ZocckCastlestorm
03-29-07, 04:55 PM Another really useful Feat to have, after Improved Initiative is Improved Toughness. + 1 HP/Level. As your Wiz/Psi/Cereb needs a total of at least 6 Levels to get Fortitude Save of + 2, this will grant you 6 HP's immediately! It is also going to give you + 1 HP at each additional level-just like a Con Boost, but permanent. The only reason not to take Improved Toughness would be if you have the Psionic Body Feat,first.
Magicianguy131
03-30-07, 12:22 PM Wizardry and psionics synergize with each other a lot better than arcane and divine magic do. You give up a lot less than, say, a wizard/cleric would. You also don't suffer from multiple-ability dependency the way a mystic theurge does.

What about Wizard/Archivist?

Magicianguy131
tetebetson
03-30-07, 12:36 PM if you want to aim for the Cmancer
the best options have to be Wizard/Psion or Sorcerer/Wilder
the abilities match nicely
u should be abele to enter the Pr cls by the time you hit 3 Wiz/3 psion

also for a magic user pr cls very simaler Arcane Hirophant in (Races of the wild):P
SlanderPanic
03-30-07, 02:59 PM What about Archivist?

Is that the cleric who's just like a wizard, but with a different spell list? Pass. Hardcore pass, in fact.

the best options have to be Wizard/Psion or Sorcerer/Wilder

Actually, sorcerer/wilder is a horrible combo. For starters, you can't even get into the prestige class until you're going to 9th level. You also don't get wild surge progression, which is the only thing keeping a wilder from being a completely crap class. Cerebremancers are all about versatility, which both wilders and sorcerers lack.
teshen
03-30-07, 07:11 PM Actually, sorcerer/wilder is a horrible combo. For starters, you can't even get into the prestige class until you're going to 9th level. You also don't get wild surge progression, which is the only thing keeping a wilder from being a completely crap class. Cerebremancers are all about versatility, which both wilders and sorcerers lack.
The idea is not bad... using the same 'casting' stat, but you're right. The application is horrible.

If you don't mind a little cheese, consider some feat, like earth spell, or feat combo to treat your casting as if it were higher to qualify for cerebremancer a little earlier. You'll be more useful throughout your levels that way...
napscism28150
03-31-07, 07:18 AM take this one advice and hold it dear if your going to be a cerbal then you will need:

spells: fireball, eagle's splendor(sorcerer),fox cunning(wizard), spell enhancer, dweomer of transference(expanded psionic pg220).

feats: practiced(both of them.) psion body, twin spell, twin power, and ast both not least up the wall.

the highlight of being a cerebal: this is when i was playing a sorcerer-based cerebal in a spell point game. the bounty hunter who had been tracking me for a crime i was accussed of had found me. now for the record the cleric i had slaughtered said i was a joke to all mages. now any of you know a CN character they dont care how many members of their family are their but lets just say her mother did not spare a gold piece for my head. but back to the story the bounty hunter had a decent spell and power resistance and A pretty good array of spells that said die mage! die!. well i got her resistance down some how and that wad when she said

"mage i will give your due but you are near death and i can safely say you out of power!"

sable smiles: "do you think i would not have confronted you if i didn't have a way to kill you? poor girl, i think i will show you the mean over-kill!!"

sable killed her with ray of entropy, fireball, and heck of alot of twin casted energy balls
AQuebman
04-02-07, 09:15 AM im impatient so im going to ask this because I am at work. The Collegiate Wizard thing from Complete Arcane, what does it do and why is it not listed with the other feats?

Is it the type of thing that only certain DM's will allow it as a variant or something??
SlanderPanic
04-02-07, 12:53 PM Yeah, it's DM-optional. The feat represents formal training in a school for wizardry, as opposed to apprenticing to a single master. It lets you begin with more spells known and learn more spells for free at each new level. It's potentially unbalancing, so ask your DM first.
AQuebman
04-02-07, 01:59 PM The idea is not bad... using the same 'casting' stat, but you're right. The application is horrible.

If you don't mind a little cheese, consider some feat, like earth spell, or feat combo to treat your casting as if it were higher to qualify for cerebremancer a little earlier. You'll be more useful throughout your levels that way...

Did you mean those ideas if you went sorceror wilder or was that a suggestion as a psion/wizard that I didn't catch on to? Im also curious about opinions of the different psion specialties since I have never personally played a psion before. Any suggestions or opinions would be greatly appreciated.
teshen
04-02-07, 02:44 PM What I meant was it is a good thing to focus on one stat for a dual casting approach if possible...

Psion uses Intelligence. Wizard uses Intelligence. Good combination...

Sorcerer uses Charisma and Wilder uses Charisma... it should make a good combination, but both suffer from delayed access to powers, thus making the combination weaker and much less survivable all around...

Psions pretty much do the same thing as wilders with less of a problem if you take the overchanneling feats. That and the psion has a larger number of powers to work with.

More on psions latter...
LLJK_DNK
04-02-07, 10:29 PM If your DM allows Collegiate Wizard, I'd do something like this for feat progression / strategy.

As a Human:
1 Wiz / 3 Erudite / 10 CereMancer / 6 Psychomancer (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=3113855&postcount=2) / Epic Cerebromancer
1: (1st Level)Collegiate Wizard, (Human)Precocious Apprentice, (Wizard)Scribe Scroll
3: Practiced Spellcaster
4: (Erudite) Psicrystal Affinity, Practiced Manifester
6: Empower Spell
9: Imprint Stone (first) / Whatever (Later, Read below about Psychic Reformation)
12: Expanded Knowledge: Metamorph (First) / Metamorphic Transfer (Later)
15: Maximize Spell
18: Extend Power

Precocious Apprentice helps get those Cerebromancer Levels that much faster

Metamorph with Shared Powers with two Familiar-type guys (and Vigor + share pain on all of them....)

As soon as you hit 12, pick up psychic reformation. Use your level 12 feat (expanded knowledge) and Imprint Stone combined with your basic erudite power learning abilities to get all the goodies out of the other classes. This means:
GET THIS GET THIS GET THIS ----> Metamorph <---- If nothing else get this
Energy Missile
Energy Ball
Dismissal, Psionic
Inertial Barrier
Precognition
Astral Construct
Psionic Repair Damage
Ectoplasmic Cocoon
Quintesscence
Charm, Psionic
Suggestion, Psionic
Empathic Transfer, Hostile
Dominate, Psionic
Modify Memory, Psionic
Schism

As well as all the powers you missed as you were leveling up. This can take a lot of XP out of you, so choose what you want/need, but you can basically have any power you are able to manifest (-1 power level, as per "Expanded Knowledge"s RAW text) be known.

After you have finished your learning binge, you can reform Imprint Stone to something else and Expanded Knowledge to Metamorphic Transfer.

When you hit 15, the fun starts again! Reform Metamorphic Transfer to Imprint Stone, and take Expanded Knowledge as your level 15 feat. Rinse, repeat, change your (new) Imprint Stone feat to something else, and change your Expanded Knowledge to Metamorphic Transfer.

I think you see the pattern.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AQuebman 03-26-07, 10:18 AM	I believed I spelled that right... anyways I am curious what people think of this class, what kind of feats folks have combined together that really make the combination of arcane & psionics effective. I know the negative is you get arcane spells and psionic powers at a slower rate but you have access to both sides. Looking forward to the responses.
Salick 03-26-07, 10:58 AM	Practiced Spellcaster and Practiced Manifester feats are a must for this combination of classes. I also recommend taking the astral construct power as a shaper or I believe there is a feat that lets you use a power from another discipline. Other then that do everything you can to raise intelligence. Headband of intellect, etc.. That keeps your spell DC respectable and adds to your power point total
teshen 03-26-07, 11:21 AM	I believed I spelled that right... anyways I am curious what people think of this class, what kind of feats folks have combined together that really make the combination of arcane & psionics effective. I know the negative is you get arcane spells and psionic powers at a slower rate but you have access to both sides. Psionics is pretty good in it's own right. I suggest looking into powers that have strong synergies and/or have lots of versatility built in rather than feats being the most important... although the feats are important as well. In some cases, you'll have to take the expanded knowledge feat from The Expanded Psionics Handbook since some powers belong to one kind of manifester or another... and think about what manifester has the bulk of the powers you want, egoist, nomad, or whatever... Since you're aware of the primary weakness (lost punch to both spells and manifester levels) take the 'practiced' feats like salick suggests or take spells and powers where the level matters less, like a lot of the utility spells/powers.
SlanderPanic 03-26-07, 12:03 PM	Wizardry and psionics synergize with each other a lot better than arcane and divine magic do. You give up a lot less than, say, a wizard/cleric would. You also don't suffer from multiple-ability dependency the way a mystic theurge does. Generally, for a cerebremancer, wizard/psion is the best class combo to start out with. Since your number of powers known is pretty limited (unless your campaign allows erudites,) you're probably best off concentrating on offensive powers and utility spells. Since you're probably going to be lagging behind your party's other spellcasters a bit, concentrate on fun stuff like battlefield control, ability damage, dispelling, and indirect damage. Ego whip is a great power for knocking down enemy fighter-types. Temporal acceleration synergizes beautifully with battlefield control effects and delayed blast fireballs. Personal mind blank is a must-have. For feats, I agree that Practiced Manifester (Complete Psionic) and Practiced Spellcaster (Complete Arcane) are practically essential. You may also want to ask your DM if he's allowing Collegiate Wizard (Complete Arcane). Psicrystal Affinity is tremendously useful. Hope all that helped.
Pariah_ex_mortis 03-26-07, 01:31 PM	Feats are as noted above, you should also look into the spell: Mental Pinnacle, in the EXP. Another combo is the Wilder/Sorccer also only one Ability to power up, but has an interesting flare to it. I have also been looking into a PsiWar/Duskblade version of it. Hope it helps. Cheers
AQuebman 03-26-07, 01:41 PM	Im at work at the moment so i'll have to look into it but all of your ideas sound like they will help keep the class powerful yet mixed between the 2 sides. If im going for a very offensive caster im assuming kineticist and Evocation specialist would be the way to go in that manner. Im still unsure what route I wish to go but this class intrigues me quite a bit.
AQuebman 03-28-07, 03:42 PM	Okay I pretty much know how I want to specialize with the class. My only other question is after the practice manifester/spellcaster feats, what other feats would be good for a build that split between arcane & psionics. Any suggestions?
Chimaera2000 03-29-07, 01:12 PM	Improved Initiative is a good feat for any character and is a must-have for any full spellcaster once their essential feats (the aforementioned Practiced Spellcaster and Practiced Manifester) are taken.
ZocckCastlestorm 03-29-07, 04:55 PM	Another really useful Feat to have, after Improved Initiative is Improved Toughness. + 1 HP/Level. As your Wiz/Psi/Cereb needs a total of at least 6 Levels to get Fortitude Save of + 2, this will grant you 6 HP's immediately! It is also going to give you + 1 HP at each additional level-just like a Con Boost, but permanent. The only reason not to take Improved Toughness would be if you have the Psionic Body Feat,first.
Magicianguy131 03-30-07, 12:22 PM	Wizardry and psionics synergize with each other a lot better than arcane and divine magic do. You give up a lot less than, say, a wizard/cleric would. You also don't suffer from multiple-ability dependency the way a mystic theurge does. What about Wizard/Archivist? Magicianguy131
tetebetson 03-30-07, 12:36 PM	if you want to aim for the Cmancer the best options have to be Wizard/Psion or Sorcerer/Wilder the abilities match nicely u should be abele to enter the Pr cls by the time you hit 3 Wiz/3 psion also for a magic user pr cls very simaler Arcane Hirophant in (Races of the wild):P
SlanderPanic 03-30-07, 02:59 PM	What about Archivist? Is that the cleric who's just like a wizard, but with a different spell list? Pass. Hardcore pass, in fact. the best options have to be Wizard/Psion or Sorcerer/Wilder Actually, sorcerer/wilder is a horrible combo. For starters, you can't even get into the prestige class until you're going to 9th level. You also don't get wild surge progression, which is the only thing keeping a wilder from being a completely crap class. Cerebremancers are all about versatility, which both wilders and sorcerers lack.
teshen 03-30-07, 07:11 PM	Actually, sorcerer/wilder is a horrible combo. For starters, you can't even get into the prestige class until you're going to 9th level. You also don't get wild surge progression, which is the only thing keeping a wilder from being a completely crap class. Cerebremancers are all about versatility, which both wilders and sorcerers lack. The idea is not bad... using the same 'casting' stat, but you're right. The application is horrible. If you don't mind a little cheese, consider some feat, like earth spell, or feat combo to treat your casting as if it were higher to qualify for cerebremancer a little earlier. You'll be more useful throughout your levels that way...
napscism28150 03-31-07, 07:18 AM	take this one advice and hold it dear if your going to be a cerbal then you will need: spells: fireball, eagle's splendor(sorcerer),fox cunning(wizard), spell enhancer, dweomer of transference(expanded psionic pg220). feats: practiced(both of them.) psion body, twin spell, twin power, and ast both not least up the wall. the highlight of being a cerebal: this is when i was playing a sorcerer-based cerebal in a spell point game. the bounty hunter who had been tracking me for a crime i was accussed of had found me. now for the record the cleric i had slaughtered said i was a joke to all mages. now any of you know a CN character they dont care how many members of their family are their but lets just say her mother did not spare a gold piece for my head. but back to the story the bounty hunter had a decent spell and power resistance and A pretty good array of spells that said die mage! die!. well i got her resistance down some how and that wad when she said "mage i will give your due but you are near death and i can safely say you out of power!" sable smiles: "do you think i would not have confronted you if i didn't have a way to kill you? poor girl, i think i will show you the mean over-kill!!" sable killed her with ray of entropy, fireball, and heck of alot of twin casted energy balls
AQuebman 04-02-07, 09:15 AM	im impatient so im going to ask this because I am at work. The Collegiate Wizard thing from Complete Arcane, what does it do and why is it not listed with the other feats? Is it the type of thing that only certain DM's will allow it as a variant or something??
SlanderPanic 04-02-07, 12:53 PM	Yeah, it's DM-optional. The feat represents formal training in a school for wizardry, as opposed to apprenticing to a single master. It lets you begin with more spells known and learn more spells for free at each new level. It's potentially unbalancing, so ask your DM first.
AQuebman 04-02-07, 01:59 PM	The idea is not bad... using the same 'casting' stat, but you're right. The application is horrible. If you don't mind a little cheese, consider some feat, like earth spell, or feat combo to treat your casting as if it were higher to qualify for cerebremancer a little earlier. You'll be more useful throughout your levels that way... Did you mean those ideas if you went sorceror wilder or was that a suggestion as a psion/wizard that I didn't catch on to? Im also curious about opinions of the different psion specialties since I have never personally played a psion before. Any suggestions or opinions would be greatly appreciated.
teshen 04-02-07, 02:44 PM	What I meant was it is a good thing to focus on one stat for a dual casting approach if possible... Psion uses Intelligence. Wizard uses Intelligence. Good combination... Sorcerer uses Charisma and Wilder uses Charisma... it should make a good combination, but both suffer from delayed access to powers, thus making the combination weaker and much less survivable all around... Psions pretty much do the same thing as wilders with less of a problem if you take the overchanneling feats. That and the psion has a larger number of powers to work with. More on psions latter...
LLJK_DNK 04-02-07, 10:29 PM	If your DM allows Collegiate Wizard, I'd do something like this for feat progression / strategy. As a Human: 1 Wiz / 3 Erudite / 10 CereMancer / 6 Psychomancer (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=3113855&postcount=2) / Epic Cerebromancer 1: (1st Level)Collegiate Wizard, (Human)Precocious Apprentice, (Wizard)Scribe Scroll 3: Practiced Spellcaster 4: (Erudite) Psicrystal Affinity, Practiced Manifester 6: Empower Spell 9: Imprint Stone (first) / Whatever (Later, Read below about Psychic Reformation) 12: Expanded Knowledge: Metamorph (First) / Metamorphic Transfer (Later) 15: Maximize Spell 18: Extend Power Precocious Apprentice helps get those Cerebromancer Levels that much faster Metamorph with Shared Powers with two Familiar-type guys (and Vigor + share pain on all of them....) As soon as you hit 12, pick up psychic reformation. Use your level 12 feat (expanded knowledge) and Imprint Stone combined with your basic erudite power learning abilities to get all the goodies out of the other classes. This means: GET THIS GET THIS GET THIS ----> Metamorph <---- If nothing else get this Energy Missile Energy Ball Dismissal, Psionic Inertial Barrier Precognition Astral Construct Psionic Repair Damage Ectoplasmic Cocoon Quintesscence Charm, Psionic Suggestion, Psionic Empathic Transfer, Hostile Dominate, Psionic Modify Memory, Psionic Schism As well as all the powers you missed as you were leveling up. This can take a lot of XP out of you, so choose what you want/need, but you can basically have any power you are able to manifest (-1 power level, as per "Expanded Knowledge"s RAW text) be known. After you have finished your learning binge, you can reform Imprint Stone to something else and Expanded Knowledge to Metamorphic Transfer. When you hit 15, the fun starts again! Reform Metamorphic Transfer to Imprint Stone, and take Expanded Knowledge as your level 15 feat. Rinse, repeat, change your (new) Imprint Stone feat to something else, and change your Expanded Knowledge to Metamorphic Transfer. I think you see the pattern.