Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nehpets_Lalaland 12-01-07, 07:00 PM	i have been working on thi classes for a while. I'm sorry for the repost but I don't think the old title actually said what i had made. Oh please tell tell me your opinion even if you have no idea what is wrong or how to fix it i need more inpute if my DM is gonna let me use my class. The Flame Manipulator The Flame Manipulatro has beed described by many as the "perfect example of a boyscout" he enjoys playing with fire to such an extreme extent that he has learned to control it. Hit Die: d4 Requiremenets: Skills: Knowledge (Arcana) or (Religion) 8 ranks, Knowledge (Planes) 4 ranks Feats: Energy Substitution (Fire) Spells: Must be able to cast three spells of the (fire) subtype, one of which must be of at least the third level Special: Must have survived five days in the wilderness of the Elemental Plane of Fire or have made friendly contact with a fire elemental of at least Elder size Class Skills: Concentration, Craft skills, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Religion), Knowledge (Planes), Profession skills, Spellcraft Skill Points per level: 2 + Int modifier Class Features: Weapon and Armor Proficency: A Flame Manipulator does not gain any proficency with weapons or armor Spells: A Flame Manipulator gains new spells per day and an increase in caster level for one spellcasting class at every level exept every third (3, 6, 9) Create Fire (Sp): at first level, a Flame Manipulator can create magical fire, that deals 1d6 per round, which he can contral all aspects of: color, shape, and all other features except damage. Also he can use the flame to immitate spells, within DMs judgement of reasonable, of a level that the Flame Manipulator can cast. If the spell deals damage it only does Create Fire's damage and if it has a duration greater than instant it last only as long as Create Fire's duration. The fire can be thrown at a rate of 10 x class level feet per round. The maximum volume of flame controlable is equal to class level 5x5x5 cubes. This can be done 1/day + two more times every three levels after one. To use this is a standard action. The flame lasts 1.5 rounds per class level rounded down. this flame does not count as magical for the purposes of Control Magical Flame. Note: a Flame Manipulator can only control up to one flame via Create Fire, Control Non-Magical Flame, or Control Magical Flame at any one time Destroy Fire (Sp): At first level, a Flame Manipulator can destroy any non-magical or magical flame up to 2 levels higher than the highest he can control, min lvl 2. Also this can be used to deal damage to a fire elemental equal to 1d6 or Control Heat's damage Fire Spell Specialization (Su): At second level, a Flame Manipulator casts all spells of the fire subtype at +2 caster level but all other spells at -1 caster level. Control Non-Magical Flame (Sp): At second level, a Flame Manipulator can, as a standard action, take control any non-magical fire, and control it the same way he can control the fire he creates with a maximum volume of (4+1 per level) x base size of the flame . This flame deals 1d6 per round, on the end of the Flame Manipulator's turn. A flame being controled by a Flame Manipulator goes out in 2 rounds per class level. Control Magical Flame (Sp): At third level, a Flame Manipulator can control and magical flame, up to the listed level, the same way he controls a non-magical flame exept that it does listed damage or your control heat damage, the listed damage, if greater than your maximum control heat level, can be increased by 1/4 your maximum control heat damage rounded down. This is a standard action that can be done the same number of times per day as create fire. Controled flames go out at the end of the duration or 1.5 rounds per class level, whichever is less. Control Heat (Su): At fourth level, a Flame manipulator can change the temperature of any flame he controls. He can lower the temperature as low as 1 damage per round or raise the temperature up to 4d6 damage per round. the maximum damage increases by 2d6 every class level after fourth. Flame Defenses (Sp): at fifth level a Flame Manipulator has learned how to make fire more solid, when controlling a flame of any kind a Flame Manipulator gets a deflection bonus to armor equal to his Flame Manipulator level-4 this is treated as if it is a force spell Extreme Fire Specialization (Su): At sixth level, the fire specialization changes to +3 and -2 Flame Avoidence (Ex): At seventh level, a Flame Manipulator has developed the innate ability to sense flame coming their direction. When he takes fire damage from a spell or spell like ability, he makes a reflex save against the spells DC, whether or not it allows a save. On a successful save he takes no damage and on an unsuccessful save he takes 1/2 damage. Searing Spells (Su): At eigth level, a Flame Manipulator's fire spells, controled fire, and created fire count as though they are under the effect of the Searing Spell metamagic feat(Sandstorm). Two at Once (Sp): At ninth level, a Flame Manipulator has become even more in tune with her ability to control fire. He is now capable of controling two flames and dealing damage with two flames at one time instead of just one. The damage restrictions still apply the same on both flames. When controlling two flames, the flame manipulator takes the two weapon fighting penalties to any attacks, also a flame manipulator gets double the defense bonus to AC. Flames controlled by two at once only last ½ as long as they normally would. The Flames cannot occupy the same space. If you take any damage you must make a concentration check DC=damage versus losing both flames Ultimate Control (Su): at tenth level a Flame Manipulator has learned complete control over any kind of flame. He is now capable , a number of times equal to his class level divided by two times per day, when He successfully makes the reflex save against a spell of the fire subtype, to take control of the flame or if He is already controlling two flames he can bounce the flame back at the caster empowered with the control heat damage or he can extinguish it. Also he can use his control flame abilities as a free action and his create flames as a move action. Table: The Flame Manipulator Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Magic Fire Level Caster levels 1 +0 +0 +2 +2 Create Fire, Destroy Fire +1 2 +1 +0 +3 +3 Fire Spell Specialization, +1 Cotrol Non-Magical Flame 3 +1 +1 +3 +3 Control Magical Fire 0-1st level spells +0 4 +2 +1 +4 +4 Control Heat 2-3rd level spells +1 5 +2 +1 +4 +4 Flame Defenses 4th level spells +1 6 +3 +2 +5 +5 Extreme Fire Specialization 5th level spells +0 7 +3 +2 +5 +5 Flame Avoidence 6th level spells +1 8 +4 +2 +6 +6 Searing Spells 7th level spells +1 9 +4 +3 +6 +6 Two at Once 8th level spells +0 10 +5 +3 +7 +7 Ultimate Control 9th level spells +1 I'd love critiques on this class EDIT: 12/4 added searing spells and fixed wording of control heat
Nehpets_Lalaland 12-03-07, 11:07 PM	So... is my class just perfect or is no one feeling like saying anything about it? :bump:
Khellendros54 12-04-07, 12:32 AM	I am a little confused on the damage potential for this class. Naturally a fire specialist appeals to the fireball slinger. I would be looking for a dps caster here. What I am seeing though seems to be a fire trickster. I see a lot of potential for something resembling an illusionist. I believe the standard damage for lighting on fire is 1d6. When you talk about the damage, is it 1d6 per class level? Or does the abilities only deal 1d6 damage per round? There are the shadow spells which allow you to replicate standard spells using shadow versions of them. Would you want to make that side of the create fire ability a separate ability? Something along the lines of: You can duplicate the effects of any spell (perhaps with school restrictions or from a special list) of a level equal to your class level. This class has a minimum acceptance level of six for wizards, or seventh for sorcs. Meaning if I were a sixth level wizard I could take this as my seventh level. 7d6 fireballs are always scary, but nothing special. The next level I get another level of spell caster class, but I also get your fire specialization feat. Now my fireball is a 10d6 spell. The fact that I can control a non-magical fire that can deal 1d6 damage a round seems...pathetic. The feat that adds levels to your caster class seems overpowered, while the other abilities, particularly the base ones are parlor tricks. Do you want this to be a damage dealing class? Do you want him to specialize in parlor tricks? Perhaps taking our favorite standard spells and remaking them with a fire twist. I have gone on too long now so let me stop with a few suggestions. Narrow down what can be done with Control Fire. It is the first and seemingly main power and I am still uncertain what you want it to do. Flame Avoidance sounds more like a rogue's ability. A fire mage would be able to unweave a fire spell directed at him. They wouldn't be jumping out of the way, instead they would appear hit by it and laugh as a succeeded will save negates the spells effects. Or they flick their wrist and send it flying elsewhere. You might consider adding in something like the searing flame metamagic feat. Being able to overcome fire damage reduction or immunity. If you are up against the Huge fire elemental with more HD than your minotaur barbarian companion you had better be able to do something better than, if I am reading you right, 4d6 damage. The other spells you have are now dealing even less damage since you are losing levels do specialize in fire. Finally the post you made here doesn't really say what Ultimate Control does. I think it is missing a sentence or two. I think this class shows some potential, but it needs some work. Khellendros
Nehpets_Lalaland 12-04-07, 05:46 PM	When you talk about the damage, is it 1d6 per class level? Or does the abilities only deal 1d6 damage per round? It means that if they are in an adjacent square and stand (for some reason) in the fire you are weilding they take that damage every turn they stay in your fire There are the shadow spells which allow you to replicate standard spells using shadow versions of them. Would you want to make that side of the create fire ability a separate ability? Something along the lines of: You can duplicate the effects of any spell (perhaps with school restrictions or from a special list) of a level equal to your class level. This is a feature I need lots of help on i have no good idea on how to restrict this but the idea is it not only imitates fire subtype spells but any type spell and even (potentially) force spells after the flame defenses ability This class has a minimum acceptance level of six for wizards, or seventh for sorcs Actually that is fifth wizards and sixth sorcs Do you want this to be a damage dealing class? Do you want him to specialize in parlor tricks? Perhaps taking our favorite standard spells and remaking them with a fire twist. The idea of imitating spells was part of the fun of this class. Also initally at tenth level this class, using his control heat ability, did 20d6 damage with his fire. i felt i should decrease it to the more reasonable 16d6. the damage dealing is truly usable after stoping taking levels because of the ability to apply part of this damage to fire spells though there is a typo it should say +2d6 every level after fourth, i'll fix that Flame Avoidance sounds more like a rogue's ability I need help finding a better name for this please You might consider adding in something like the searing flame metamagic feat. Being able to overcome fire damage reduction or immunity. Thanks for the idea i think i will add it to fill in the dead level Finally the post you made here doesn't really say what Ultimate Control does. I think it is missing a sentence or two. Basicly it allows you to bounce fire spells back at your enemy and decreases the time it takes to use the Create and Control abilities
Nehpets_Lalaland 12-07-07, 07:16 AM	I added Searing Spells, anyone have anything else they think is wrong, weak, dumb, to powerful, or that in general needs to be changed? oh i still need help on a new name for Flame Avoidence. So :bump:
Nehpets_Lalaland 12-18-07, 09:20 PM	I added Searing Spells, anyone have anything else they think is wrong, weak, dumb, to powerful, or that in general needs to be changed? oh i still need help on a new name for Flame Avoidence. So :bump: sorry but I really would love more comments so again (but probably the last time) :bump:
sigma999 12-21-07, 07:28 PM	Yeah, this whole board sucks dog *****. It's always full of junk and so much blathering, no one bothers to comment on even the mediocre material. Largest population is CharOp, which is just. Plain. Sad. So I'm breaking the norm, and PEACHing more classes because, well, I hope my Sidhe Noble and others will be PEACH'd in return. If others do the same, this place could be better. Yes? Here's my suggestions: The Special requirement of going to plane of Fire/meeting an Elder Fire is very, very rare for low level PCs, and would depend either on whim of DM, or someone else in the party with access to powerful magic. Neither are good for continuity or game balance. "Yeah, the Elder Elemental says 'Hi' and waves then walks off. You can get into your prestige class now." Destroy Fire doesn't make any sense for this class, since you're effectively removing the one thing this class is meant to do. It's like having a Wizard spell memorized called "Destroy My Own Spellbook and Wipe All Slots From My Mind". At will. The separation between nonmagical and magical fires shouldn't be, since who's to say that the product of an ignition is either one? So someone started a bonfire with a torch or spell... is anyone going to define what the result is? My advice is to fold the two (level 2 and 3) into one power, and give another ability... like casting a useful Fire-related level appropriate Arcane or Druid spell at will.
The_Inside_Man 12-22-07, 04:23 PM	I disagree. If your fire was smoehow turned against you.... Well you'd wish you hadn't eliminated this ability.
sigma999 12-22-07, 04:33 PM	Or you could put in some Fire Resistance at early level, and Immunity by later.