The Most Underrated PrC in your Opinion... [Archive] - Wizards Community

The Most Underrated PrC in your Opinion... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sol_Odlanier
11-11-07, 01:18 AM In my oppinion is The Disiple Of Dispater
Eikre
11-11-07, 01:28 AM That's not "The Most Underrated Prc in my Opinion!" That's your's!

False topic title!
Zsasz_Diedne
11-11-07, 01:31 AM In my opinion is The Disiple Of Dispater

I guess you never visit the CO boards? Cornerstone of many a crit-monkey build.

My vote goes to the Divine Prankster, as most people see "Gnome" and quickly turn the page, they miss out on a hillarious (ha ha) PrC. Killin' 'em with comedy FTW.
Sol_Odlanier
11-11-07, 01:42 AM That's not "The Most Underrated Prc in my Opinion!" That's your's!

False topic title!

:uh-huh: someone give this guy some NYquil or something
Sol_Odlanier
11-11-07, 01:47 AM I guess you never visit the CO boards? Cornerstone of many a crit-monkey build.

:bigeyes: :embarrass ... no I haven't

My vote goes to the Divine Prankster, as most people see "Gnome" and quickly turn the page, they miss out on a hillarious (ha ha) PrC. Killin' 'em with comedy FTW.

IN what book is that Prc?:confused:
Aleolus
11-11-07, 02:33 AM Races of Stone. It's quite amusing, easiest way to get into it (only way, I think), is to multiclass Bard/Cleric. I remember thinking up a Gnome Cleric, who highlighted as a Bard to earn cash, and had a Wizard friend of his do a Permanenced Ghost Sound, so that every time he told a bad joke (which was the only kind he ever told), that oh-so-famous drum noise would go off.

I think Evangalist is pretty underrated, since I have never seen anyone playing one, plan on playing one, or even a discussion about them here online.
Zsasz_Diedne
11-11-07, 03:08 AM Evangelist is another good one, it is mentioned in the "Worst PrC" Thread here, hehe, I suspect it's flavor and abilities are too subtle for some to grasp.
jradd777
11-11-07, 06:45 AM I think Evangalist is pretty underrated, since I have never seen anyone playing one, plan on playing one, or even a discussion about them here online.

Evangelist is another good one, it is mentioned in the "Worst PrC" Thread here, hehe, I suspect it's flavor and abilities are too subtle for some to grasp.

I have a friend who has made an NPC of one for a campaign setting that he is working on. The flavor fit perfectly what he wanted and then I began work on a new class, which also fit the flavor he wanted really well, so he ended up making the guy Bard 8/Evangelist 5/Apologetic 10. With that combo, this guy is a crazy good, quite persuasive public speaker! :tie:
StevenO
11-11-07, 08:08 PM Looking at how often people try to "improve" them I think the DMG's own Arcane Archer and Dragon Disciple get under rated. Too many times one sees the spellcasting requirement but only one class ability that deals with spells and then dismiss the class as worthless.
ninjarabbit
11-11-07, 08:25 PM Eldritch Knight

Full BAB, 9/10 CL, and a fighter feat are nothing to sneeze at
jradd777
11-11-07, 08:39 PM Looking at how often people try to "improve" them I think the DMG's own Arcane Archer and Dragon Disciple get under rated. Too many times one sees the spellcasting requirement but only one class ability that deals with spells and then dismiss the class as worthless.

Wow, Arcane Archer? I'm surprised, maybe I'm wrong or it's a single case scenario, but we had a guy play one that was ridiculously good. As a DM, I was having to increase the higher CR creatures in encounters because the Arcane Archer was dominating everything.
runestar
11-11-07, 08:44 PM Cerebrant of sharess (PGTF), since it is for most part useless, but has one ability that can potentially upset just about any game...:P
The_Shaman
11-11-07, 09:12 PM I'd say - I hate the celebrant PrC with a passion (good deity, great idea, f....g horrible execution) and consider it the hands-down worst PrCs ever printed, in flavor and mechanics. Which ability do you mean, pray tell, the flirtation/fascinate combo or the sanctuary effect? Please tell me it's not the pounce ;) .
Zsasz_Diedne
11-11-07, 11:54 PM Yeah that PrC is a bit of a mess, lack of focus FTL, better acomplished with other classes and some rp.
runestar
11-12-07, 12:14 AM Which ability do you mean, pray tell, the flirtation/fascinate combo or the sanctuary effect? Please tell me it's not the pounce .

The sanctuary effect.

IIRC, its dc is your perform check, which is quite easy to boost in 3.5. So just crank up your perform check, and your whole party is clad in a sanctuary effect which normal foes cannot make the save against.

Then, all you need to do is to walk right past them to the end point where the BBEG is waiting. And you would still get xp for those foes you skipped, as per the DMG definition of what overcoming an encounter entails.

Okay, maybe not overrated, just badly designed...:P
Barloch
11-12-07, 02:49 AM Rage mage, there I said it. I love this PrC it makes me warm and fuzzy inside and your dm can't help but laugh when you rage and look like you're about to charge and then you just throw a fireball. I think the PrC could have been beter, but its so fun, flavorful, and of course loveable.

Alot of PrCs in the DMG and Complete warrior get written off these days though because they were made earlier and thus not subject to the eventual power creep that wizards succamb to. Master of the Unseen hand is also a seriously underrated class, and agains singularly hilarious, though if you aren't playing something that can telekensis at will you lose alot of potential.
Zsasz_Diedne
11-14-07, 07:10 PM Rage mage, there I said it. I love this PrC it makes me warm and fuzzy inside and your dm can't help but laugh when you rage and look like you're about to charge and then you just throw a fireball. I think the PrC could have been beter, but its so fun, flavorful, and of course loveable.

Alot of PrCs in the DMG and Complete warrior get written off these days though because they were made earlier and thus not subject to the eventual power creep that wizards succamb to. Master of the Unseen hand is also a seriously underrated class, and agains singularly hilarious, though if you aren't playing something that can telekensis at will you lose alot of potential.

Power Creep is a factor, but I think the Rage Mage was a classic case of cool concept/poor execution. The MotUH was a class I stuck up for in the "worst PrC ever" thread, people really do gloss over it too easily once they see it has no caster progression, and thus miss the point.
Phelf_Der_Zemit
11-14-07, 08:45 PM Well, I dont know if it's underrated, as much as just unused. I like the horizon walker, you can get some nifty things if you stick to the class to 6th level (there's no reason to really take it any further) until you get planar terrian, shifting, you can use DD spell every 1d4 rounds, thats about to get abused if you ask me. Before this you can get axcess to darkvision, Become immune to fatigue, and resistante to exhaustion, after this you just get little perks in your nesassry skill monkey skill checks (move silently, spot, hide, swim, etc.)

You can get into it at 5thlvl, and after you get to level six finish off the perfect rogue build with the rest of your nine leves goin into assassin. Some arcane casting complaments this nicely.
GhostSound
11-14-07, 10:46 PM I've seen decent praise for the Master Specialist, but not nearly enough as it deserves... it's what specialist Wizards should always have been.
Barloch
11-15-07, 02:26 AM I've seen decent praise for the Master Specialist, but not nearly enough as it deserves... it's what specialist Wizards should always have been.

Yeah it is pretty good, it almost made me consider playing wizard, then I remembered I hate prepping spells.
Meep222
11-18-07, 02:41 AM Alot of PrCs in the DMG and Complete warrior get written off these days though because they were made earlier and thus not subject to the eventual power creep that wizards succamb to. Master of the Unseen hand is also a seriously underrated class, and agains singularly hilarious, though if you aren't playing something that can telekensis at will you lose alot of potential.
I read the MotUH last night, looked at a couple combinations, and decided that the enchanter I'm playing really wants a sorcerer cohort... MotUH combined with a Ring of Telekenesis, so you've got your main ability useable at will rather than only a few times per day, and a few other abilities.
Quack_Moo
11-19-07, 12:24 AM I normally would say the Archmage (at least among my group), but I recently took a dip into the Dragonlance Campaign Setting. I have absolutely fallen in love with the Wizard of High Sorcery prestige class. I know it's 3.0, but darnit, there's some neat abilities for specialist wizards in there.

On top of that, it dovetails perfectly with the Master Specialist (current character: Wiz 3, Master Illusionist 4, WHS 1). Even if you ignore the Item of Power, Tower Resources, and Moon Magic, it's got some solid abilities (and some hilarious ones, like "deal 2d6 damage to ally to Empower or Extend a Necromancy spell).

It's either those two or the Candle Caster from Tome and Blood. My entire group (except me) calls it the "sissy-candle wizard".
rone_leah
11-19-07, 01:32 AM I vote swashbuckler because no-one in their right mind would call that a base class.
The_Shaman
11-19-07, 09:47 AM I've tried it, it's not half-bad if you want a finesse warrior with some extra skills and ToB is not available/allowed. Now, the spellthief? That I can't imagine playing.

Speaking of which, I haven't seen much love for the Thaumaturgist. Must be because it's a cleric PrC with wizard-like HD and saves, but it's not that bad imo - you lower the costs of one of the most awesome spels in existance (Planar ally can easily get you an "ally" with higher CR than your party's supposed to face), get better in any conjuration, and eventually get something like a mini-leadership.
Kiioro
11-22-07, 02:51 PM I play spellthieves, scouts and/or rogues. Spellthieves are underpowered at first (the sneak attack progression is insulting) but they're like Binders, you can adapt to the party's necessities (stealth/spellcasting in this case).

I despise most of the spellcasting classes, it's usually either horrendous hit die or groveling to deities and never a good amount of skill points, that's why syphoning spells is quite attractive (once you get the Eschew Materials feat).

Now, if there's something I'd never, ever play is an Evangelist. And I almost worship kurtulmak because I agree that gnomes shouldn't exist (as most of my party), so Divine Prankster is an invitation to get killed.

The Nightsong PrC are useless if you don't have a partner with a Nightsong PrC, so I never consider them.
The_Shaman
11-22-07, 05:48 PM Kioro, the last sentence completely stunned me.

Useless, the Nightsong PrCs? I consider the Nightsong enforcer a near-perfect PrC for any fighter/rogue build. IIRC there is nothing about the team abilities being limited to characters with levels in any Nightsong PrCs (it says allies, and doesn't specify what kind), and many of their other abilities - full BAB, +4d6, some rogue HLA - will likely see a lot of use. The infiltrator is not as good imo but still useful for a rogue whose focus is on being a skillmonkey/support rather than on combat
archerpwr
11-22-07, 09:08 PM Eldritch Knight

Full BAB, 9/10 CL, and a fighter feat are nothing to sneeze at

Seconded. I've kinda crusaded for eldritch knight on the CO board.
Aleolus
11-23-07, 02:20 AM Actually, I've been wanting to give the Dwarven Defender a try. Anyone know if it's any good?

As for underrated PrC's, how about the Chameleon (RoD)? Hard to beat the ability to do anything you want. Only prereqs are Bluff and Disguise at 8 ranks, Sense Motive and Spellcraft at 4, the Able Learner feat, and that you be a human or a doppleganger. A 5th level rouge meets those easy!
ShadeSeraph
11-24-07, 09:25 AM Actually, I've been wanting to give the Dwarven Defender a try. Anyone know if it's any good?

As for underrated PrC's, how about the Chameleon (RoD)? Hard to beat the ability to do anything you want. Only prereqs are Bluff and Disguise at 8 ranks, Sense Motive and Spellcraft at 4, the Able Learner feat, and that you be a human or a doppleganger. A 5th level rouge meets those easy!

Underrated? The chameleon is considered one of the strongest classes in the Character Optimization board... It's incredibly powerful, pretty fun to play and perfect for any role. I can not even think on calling it underrated.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sol_Odlanier 11-11-07, 01:18 AM	In my oppinion is The Disiple Of Dispater
Eikre 11-11-07, 01:28 AM	That's not "The Most Underrated Prc in my Opinion!" That's your's! False topic title!
Zsasz_Diedne 11-11-07, 01:31 AM	In my opinion is The Disiple Of Dispater I guess you never visit the CO boards? Cornerstone of many a crit-monkey build. My vote goes to the Divine Prankster, as most people see "Gnome" and quickly turn the page, they miss out on a hillarious (ha ha) PrC. Killin' 'em with comedy FTW.
Sol_Odlanier 11-11-07, 01:42 AM	That's not "The Most Underrated Prc in my Opinion!" That's your's! False topic title! :uh-huh: someone give this guy some NYquil or something
Sol_Odlanier 11-11-07, 01:47 AM	I guess you never visit the CO boards? Cornerstone of many a crit-monkey build. :bigeyes: :embarrass ... no I haven't My vote goes to the Divine Prankster, as most people see "Gnome" and quickly turn the page, they miss out on a hillarious (ha ha) PrC. Killin' 'em with comedy FTW. IN what book is that Prc?:confused:
Aleolus 11-11-07, 02:33 AM	Races of Stone. It's quite amusing, easiest way to get into it (only way, I think), is to multiclass Bard/Cleric. I remember thinking up a Gnome Cleric, who highlighted as a Bard to earn cash, and had a Wizard friend of his do a Permanenced Ghost Sound, so that every time he told a bad joke (which was the only kind he ever told), that oh-so-famous drum noise would go off. I think Evangalist is pretty underrated, since I have never seen anyone playing one, plan on playing one, or even a discussion about them here online.
Zsasz_Diedne 11-11-07, 03:08 AM	Evangelist is another good one, it is mentioned in the "Worst PrC" Thread here, hehe, I suspect it's flavor and abilities are too subtle for some to grasp.
jradd777 11-11-07, 06:45 AM	I think Evangalist is pretty underrated, since I have never seen anyone playing one, plan on playing one, or even a discussion about them here online. Evangelist is another good one, it is mentioned in the "Worst PrC" Thread here, hehe, I suspect it's flavor and abilities are too subtle for some to grasp. I have a friend who has made an NPC of one for a campaign setting that he is working on. The flavor fit perfectly what he wanted and then I began work on a new class, which also fit the flavor he wanted really well, so he ended up making the guy Bard 8/Evangelist 5/Apologetic 10. With that combo, this guy is a crazy good, quite persuasive public speaker! :tie:
StevenO 11-11-07, 08:08 PM	Looking at how often people try to "improve" them I think the DMG's own Arcane Archer and Dragon Disciple get under rated. Too many times one sees the spellcasting requirement but only one class ability that deals with spells and then dismiss the class as worthless.
ninjarabbit 11-11-07, 08:25 PM	Eldritch Knight Full BAB, 9/10 CL, and a fighter feat are nothing to sneeze at
jradd777 11-11-07, 08:39 PM	Looking at how often people try to "improve" them I think the DMG's own Arcane Archer and Dragon Disciple get under rated. Too many times one sees the spellcasting requirement but only one class ability that deals with spells and then dismiss the class as worthless. Wow, Arcane Archer? I'm surprised, maybe I'm wrong or it's a single case scenario, but we had a guy play one that was ridiculously good. As a DM, I was having to increase the higher CR creatures in encounters because the Arcane Archer was dominating everything.
runestar 11-11-07, 08:44 PM	Cerebrant of sharess (PGTF), since it is for most part useless, but has one ability that can potentially upset just about any game...:P
The_Shaman 11-11-07, 09:12 PM	I'd say - I hate the celebrant PrC with a passion (good deity, great idea, f....g horrible execution) and consider it the hands-down worst PrCs ever printed, in flavor and mechanics. Which ability do you mean, pray tell, the flirtation/fascinate combo or the sanctuary effect? Please tell me it's not the pounce ;) .
Zsasz_Diedne 11-11-07, 11:54 PM	Yeah that PrC is a bit of a mess, lack of focus FTL, better acomplished with other classes and some rp.
runestar 11-12-07, 12:14 AM	Which ability do you mean, pray tell, the flirtation/fascinate combo or the sanctuary effect? Please tell me it's not the pounce . The sanctuary effect. IIRC, its dc is your perform check, which is quite easy to boost in 3.5. So just crank up your perform check, and your whole party is clad in a sanctuary effect which normal foes cannot make the save against. Then, all you need to do is to walk right past them to the end point where the BBEG is waiting. And you would still get xp for those foes you skipped, as per the DMG definition of what overcoming an encounter entails. Okay, maybe not overrated, just badly designed...:P
Barloch 11-12-07, 02:49 AM	Rage mage, there I said it. I love this PrC it makes me warm and fuzzy inside and your dm can't help but laugh when you rage and look like you're about to charge and then you just throw a fireball. I think the PrC could have been beter, but its so fun, flavorful, and of course loveable. Alot of PrCs in the DMG and Complete warrior get written off these days though because they were made earlier and thus not subject to the eventual power creep that wizards succamb to. Master of the Unseen hand is also a seriously underrated class, and agains singularly hilarious, though if you aren't playing something that can telekensis at will you lose alot of potential.
Zsasz_Diedne 11-14-07, 07:10 PM	Rage mage, there I said it. I love this PrC it makes me warm and fuzzy inside and your dm can't help but laugh when you rage and look like you're about to charge and then you just throw a fireball. I think the PrC could have been beter, but its so fun, flavorful, and of course loveable. Alot of PrCs in the DMG and Complete warrior get written off these days though because they were made earlier and thus not subject to the eventual power creep that wizards succamb to. Master of the Unseen hand is also a seriously underrated class, and agains singularly hilarious, though if you aren't playing something that can telekensis at will you lose alot of potential. Power Creep is a factor, but I think the Rage Mage was a classic case of cool concept/poor execution. The MotUH was a class I stuck up for in the "worst PrC ever" thread, people really do gloss over it too easily once they see it has no caster progression, and thus miss the point.
Phelf_Der_Zemit 11-14-07, 08:45 PM	Well, I dont know if it's underrated, as much as just unused. I like the horizon walker, you can get some nifty things if you stick to the class to 6th level (there's no reason to really take it any further) until you get planar terrian, shifting, you can use DD spell every 1d4 rounds, thats about to get abused if you ask me. Before this you can get axcess to darkvision, Become immune to fatigue, and resistante to exhaustion, after this you just get little perks in your nesassry skill monkey skill checks (move silently, spot, hide, swim, etc.) You can get into it at 5thlvl, and after you get to level six finish off the perfect rogue build with the rest of your nine leves goin into assassin. Some arcane casting complaments this nicely.
GhostSound 11-14-07, 10:46 PM	I've seen decent praise for the Master Specialist, but not nearly enough as it deserves... it's what specialist Wizards should always have been.
Barloch 11-15-07, 02:26 AM	I've seen decent praise for the Master Specialist, but not nearly enough as it deserves... it's what specialist Wizards should always have been. Yeah it is pretty good, it almost made me consider playing wizard, then I remembered I hate prepping spells.
Meep222 11-18-07, 02:41 AM	Alot of PrCs in the DMG and Complete warrior get written off these days though because they were made earlier and thus not subject to the eventual power creep that wizards succamb to. Master of the Unseen hand is also a seriously underrated class, and agains singularly hilarious, though if you aren't playing something that can telekensis at will you lose alot of potential. I read the MotUH last night, looked at a couple combinations, and decided that the enchanter I'm playing really wants a sorcerer cohort... MotUH combined with a Ring of Telekenesis, so you've got your main ability useable at will rather than only a few times per day, and a few other abilities.
Quack_Moo 11-19-07, 12:24 AM	I normally would say the Archmage (at least among my group), but I recently took a dip into the Dragonlance Campaign Setting. I have absolutely fallen in love with the Wizard of High Sorcery prestige class. I know it's 3.0, but darnit, there's some neat abilities for specialist wizards in there. On top of that, it dovetails perfectly with the Master Specialist (current character: Wiz 3, Master Illusionist 4, WHS 1). Even if you ignore the Item of Power, Tower Resources, and Moon Magic, it's got some solid abilities (and some hilarious ones, like "deal 2d6 damage to ally to Empower or Extend a Necromancy spell). It's either those two or the Candle Caster from Tome and Blood. My entire group (except me) calls it the "sissy-candle wizard".
rone_leah 11-19-07, 01:32 AM	I vote swashbuckler because no-one in their right mind would call that a base class.
The_Shaman 11-19-07, 09:47 AM	I've tried it, it's not half-bad if you want a finesse warrior with some extra skills and ToB is not available/allowed. Now, the spellthief? That I can't imagine playing. Speaking of which, I haven't seen much love for the Thaumaturgist. Must be because it's a cleric PrC with wizard-like HD and saves, but it's not that bad imo - you lower the costs of one of the most awesome spels in existance (Planar ally can easily get you an "ally" with higher CR than your party's supposed to face), get better in any conjuration, and eventually get something like a mini-leadership.
Kiioro 11-22-07, 02:51 PM	I play spellthieves, scouts and/or rogues. Spellthieves are underpowered at first (the sneak attack progression is insulting) but they're like Binders, you can adapt to the party's necessities (stealth/spellcasting in this case). I despise most of the spellcasting classes, it's usually either horrendous hit die or groveling to deities and never a good amount of skill points, that's why syphoning spells is quite attractive (once you get the Eschew Materials feat). Now, if there's something I'd never, ever play is an Evangelist. And I almost worship kurtulmak because I agree that gnomes shouldn't exist (as most of my party), so Divine Prankster is an invitation to get killed. The Nightsong PrC are useless if you don't have a partner with a Nightsong PrC, so I never consider them.
The_Shaman 11-22-07, 05:48 PM	Kioro, the last sentence completely stunned me. Useless, the Nightsong PrCs? I consider the Nightsong enforcer a near-perfect PrC for any fighter/rogue build. IIRC there is nothing about the team abilities being limited to characters with levels in any Nightsong PrCs (it says allies, and doesn't specify what kind), and many of their other abilities - full BAB, +4d6, some rogue HLA - will likely see a lot of use. The infiltrator is not as good imo but still useful for a rogue whose focus is on being a skillmonkey/support rather than on combat
archerpwr 11-22-07, 09:08 PM	Eldritch Knight Full BAB, 9/10 CL, and a fighter feat are nothing to sneeze at Seconded. I've kinda crusaded for eldritch knight on the CO board.
Aleolus 11-23-07, 02:20 AM	Actually, I've been wanting to give the Dwarven Defender a try. Anyone know if it's any good? As for underrated PrC's, how about the Chameleon (RoD)? Hard to beat the ability to do anything you want. Only prereqs are Bluff and Disguise at 8 ranks, Sense Motive and Spellcraft at 4, the Able Learner feat, and that you be a human or a doppleganger. A 5th level rouge meets those easy!
ShadeSeraph 11-24-07, 09:25 AM	Actually, I've been wanting to give the Dwarven Defender a try. Anyone know if it's any good? As for underrated PrC's, how about the Chameleon (RoD)? Hard to beat the ability to do anything you want. Only prereqs are Bluff and Disguise at 8 ranks, Sense Motive and Spellcraft at 4, the Able Learner feat, and that you be a human or a doppleganger. A 5th level rouge meets those easy! Underrated? The chameleon is considered one of the strongest classes in the Character Optimization board... It's incredibly powerful, pretty fun to play and perfect for any role. I can not even think on calling it underrated.