The Truemind Disciple: A Psionic Initiate [PEACH] [Archive] - Wizards Community

The Truemind Disciple: A Psionic Initiate [PEACH] [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DoctorWeasel
09-28-07, 12:40 AM The Truemind Disciple: A Psychic Practitioner of the Sublime Way

The Truemind Disciples are discipline incarnate. They are able to tap their minds to fuel their combat skills and to directly manipulate the world around themselves. They are knowledgable in both the ways of the mind and the ways of the blade.

Prerequisites:
Feats: Psionic Meditation, Proficiency with all Diamond Mind weapons, Instant Clarity (in this case Instant Clarity may not be used in Psionic Meditation’s stead)
Skills: Autohypnosis: 4 ranks; Balance: 4 ranks; Concentration: 8 ranks
Manifesting: Able to manifest 2nd level powers
Maneuvers: At least two maneuvers and at least one Diamond Mind Stance

Level BA Fort Ref Will Ma. Kn Ma. Rdy St. Kn Special Abilities Manifesting
1: 1 0 0 2 0 0 0 Truemind Style
2: 2 0 0 3 1 0 0 True Unity +1 level existing Manifesting Class
3: 3 1 1 3 0 1 0 +1 level existing Manifesting Class
4: 4 1 1 4 1 0 0 True Adaption +1 level existing Manifesting Class
5: 5 1 1 4 0 0 1 +1 level existing Manifesting Class
6: 6 2 2 5 1 1 0 True Persistance
7: 7 2 2 5 0 0 0 +1 level existing Manifesting Class
8: 8 2 2 6 1 0 0 True Balance +1 level existing Manifesting Class
9: 9 3 3 6 0 1 0 +1 level existing Manifesting Class
10: 10 3 3 7 1 0 0 Truemind Mastery +1 level existing Manifesting Class

HD: d6
Skill Points: 2+Intelligence modifier
Skill List: Autohypnosis, Balance, Concentration, Craft, Intimidate, Knowledge (Psionics), Martial Lore, Profession, Psicraft

Maneuvers: All Truemind Disciple adds his full class level to determine his Initiator level. Every even level grants one Maneuver from the Diamond Mind discipline. Upon reaching level 5, a Truemind Disciple can learn one Diamond Mind Stance.

Manifesting: At each level beside first and sixth, a Truemind Disciple gains new powers known, power points and manifester level for the purposes of determining the maximum power point usage of his powers as if he had leveled up in his previous psionic class.

Truemind Style: As a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, a Truemind Disciple can expend up to 2 Power Points per class level to channel their psychic power through one Diamond Mind weapon. one attack made this round with that weapon gain +1 to hit and +1d6 to damage for every two Power Points spent this way. This ability may be used once per round.
Additionally, while recovering maneuvers, the Truemind Disciple automatically gains Psionic Focus.

True Unity: A Truemind Disciple of second level or higher may add his primary manifesting ability (Wisdom for a Psychic Warrior, Intelligence for a Psion, Charisma for a Wilder) modifier to all Concentration Checks and strike DCs in place of his regular modifiers.
Additionally, he may spend 2 pp to increase the DCs of his strikes by one to a maximum of 10+(maximum Maneuver level available) + (Relevant Ability modifier).

True Adaption: A 4th level Truemind Disciple may expend a Diamond Mind maneuver and Psionic Focus to manifest a power with a level up to one half of his class level at no Power Point cost. This Power can be augmented as normal for the regular Power Point cost, though augmentations can not exceed the Truemind Disciple's normal manifesting limits. A Truemind Disciple may not use the Psicrystal Containment feat to activate this ability.

True Persistance: A 6th level Truemind Disciple is able to stretch the capacity of his mind without tire; they gain the ability to use the Instant Clarity feat any number of times per day.

True Balance: As a swift action, an 8th level Truemind Disciple may forgo the normal benefit of any Diamond Mind stance they are in in order to add his primary Manifesting ability modifier to any one Attack roll, damage roll, Saving throw or skill check each round. As a second swift action, the Disciple may deactivate this ability to regain the benefits of their former stance.

Truemind Mastery: Upon reaching 10th level, a Truemind Disciple may use Quicken Power on any Power without increasing its Power Point consumption, though he must still expend his Psionic Focus. This ability must be used immediately after successfully executing a Diamond Mind strike (if an opponent beats a save DC to negate all benefit of the strike, it is considered unsuccessful). Manifesting this Power may consume Power Points up to the Truemind Disciple's Manifeter level minus 6. This ability can be used once per encounter and a Truemind Disciple may not use the Psicrystal Containment feat to activate this ability.

---------------------------

So what are you folks' opinions on this?
Especially if you have ideas on seperating from the JPM and combining Psionics with Maneuvers.

I know this has been done before, but the two I've seen have either been cut-and-paste jobs from the Elocater or have ignored Psionic Focus altogether.

My main concern is it being overpowered, so any suggestions to tone it down while maintaining the same concepts would be appreciated.

Extra Swift actions will break the game like crazy if they become available. Is there a way to prevent them with more finesse that an outright "No extra Swift Actions" statement?
gabrion
09-28-07, 01:26 AM I have more experience with ToB than with psionics, but I'll offer as much of a coherent critique as I can.

The requirements seem appropriate. Two feats, a few different skills (one making sure the character is at least 5th level), manifesting, and maneuvers + stance is a good base I think. If anything, the maneuver requirements might be a tad harsh, but no harm done really. If I were to change anything it would be simply to have at least 2 maneuvers and one diamond mind stance. I realize your intent may be to force the character to have at least three levels in a martial class, but I don't think it would do a ton of harm to allow them to get off with just one. Think of normal psionic gish PrCs (ie Slayer) - IIRC one level of fighter (or is it ranger?) is all you need.

Ok, on to the numbers. Saves and skills seem appropriate. Personally I think the BAB might be more appropriate as 3/4 than full progression. Most full BAB PrCs that likewise advance casting at most levels are pretty slim on other abilities (Eldritch Knight being a perfect example). In this case, you are getting pretty much full advancement as far as martial maneuvers go, which combined with 8/10 manifesting and a full BAB might be a tad much. I think it would make more sense to have a d8 HD and 3/4 BAB, but that's just my opinion.

Maneuver's and manifester progression seem ok if you make the BAB change. You get a lot of maneuver's known, so I think it's appropriate that you only gave yourself three maneuvers readied and only one more stance learned. 8/10 manifesting seems fine, but I would actually move the +manifester level at 10th level down to 6th level. I think it's more appropriate to miss out on a manifester level when you get the Truemind Mastery than when you get True Persistence.

Ok, so on to class abilities. I'll give a short critique of each.

Truemind Style: Sorry to say it, but I can see this being a bit overpowered. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a 10th level Truemind Disciple could spend 20 PP to gain +10 attack/+10d6 damage for all attacks in a round. Assuming you get Time Stands Still and make it to BAB +16, your looking at +80d6 damage in a round (most attacks will hit with the huge bonus) for the cost of 20 PP. Personally I would change this so that it is a standard action that includes both the spending of the PP and making one strike. A +10d6 damage strike with a +10 bonus to hit (Power Attack away!) is powerful enough for a first level ability IMO.

True Unity: Looks fine to me as a mechanic, but the math is a bit screwy IMO. Does your formula mean a initiator level 9 character with a 26 primary stat could spend 4 PP to add +2 DC? If so I guess it's readable, but I would do away with the forumula for something more simple.

True Adaption: Sounds ok, but from my limited knowledge of psionics, preserving the PP cap when manifesting powers is a sacred cow of sorts. Maybe to keep it from getting out of hand you should add that a power manifested in this way cannot be affected by the overchannel feat or the wilder's wild surge ability (I seem to remember seeing that kind of mechanic in this sort of situation before). Just a thought, but like I said, I'm no expert on psionics.

Again, I'm not expert with psionics, but I know that the focus is one of the balancing mechanisms they use for many abilities. The problem I see here is the potential (maybe?) to be expending your focus more than once in a round. Adding something like "when you gain your psionic focus through the instant clarity feat, it cannot be expended until after your turn is completed." Maybe that's too limiting though...I dunno.

True Balance: Interesting. Honestly I would prefer a hard and fast X uses/day rather than an increased DC to use. Assuming you get your primary ability in the high 20s/low 30s this is a very powerful ability. I wouldn't really like to see a character using it more than 3x/day. As it stands it is prone to abuse. +10 concentration items are printed (I think one is a third eye in XPH), and the item creation rules allow up to +30 competence bonus items to skills. Usually people don't invest that much, but the point is that you could abuse the mechanic with a +60 concentration modifier or something like that.

Truemind Mastery: This seems reasonable as written. The 1x/encounter may strike your fancy, but I agree that balance issues would arise if you allow it to operate via some other mechanic.

Final thoughts: All in all a nice PrC. I think a few of the abilities could be cleaned up a bit, but overall very creative and original from what I've seen. I would also like to see a bit more fluff at the beginning to explain what motivates a character to study both the psionic and martial adept paths at the same time, but that's obviously not a big deal. Overall I realize I was critcal of a lot of things, but that was mostly just to bring to attention any potential problems you may not have seen. I don't necessarily think the PrC is far overpowered as is (except maybe Truemind Style), but I think it's better to be overly critical that too lax!
gabrion
09-28-07, 01:35 AM Also since you are obviously familiar with ToB mechanics, would you be willing to PEACH my Devoted Enforcer (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=930370) PrC? I would appreciate it if you find the time!
DoctorWeasel
09-28-07, 02:35 AM If I were to change anything it would be simply to have at least 2 maneuvers and one diamond mind stance. I realize your intent may be to force the character to have at least three levels in a martial class, but I don't think it would do a ton of harm to allow them to get off with just one. Think of normal psionic gish PrCs (ie Slayer) - IIRC one level of fighter (or is it ranger?) is all you need.
A Psion 4/Crusader 1 would handily qualify since the Psion levels count as half of an initiator level. This does dictate the order of classes a character takes though. My intention was to make sure the class remained unavailable until level 6, but I'll fix that as it doesn't really contribute anything.

Ok, on to the numbers. Saves and skills seem appropriate. Personally I think the BAB might be more appropriate as 3/4 than full progression. Most full BAB PrCs that likewise advance casting at most levels are pretty slim on other abilities (Eldritch Knight being a perfect example). In this case, you are getting pretty much full advancement as far as martial maneuvers go, which combined with 8/10 manifesting and a full BAB might be a tad much. I think it would make more sense to have a d8 HD and 3/4 BAB, but that's just my opinion.
I was not-so-subtly modeling this off of the Jade Phoenix Mage in terms of design (Ideally, both will be on par with the Swiftblade, but I'm not sure). I'll look over it again, but this will probably stay.

Maneuver's and manifester progression seem ok if you make the BAB change. You get a lot of maneuver's known, so I think it's appropriate that you only gave yourself three maneuvers readied and only one more stance learned. 8/10 manifesting seems fine, but I would actually move the +manifester level at 10th level down to 6th level. I think it's more appropriate to miss out on a manifester level when you get the Truemind Mastery than when you get True Persistence.
Both example multiclass caster/martial adepts PrCs in ToB gain access to each level's maneuvers. This will probably stay too. I'm not sure about the missed manifester level. I think I'd prefer to get it out of the way quickly to minimize abuse of the class.

Ok, so on to class abilities. I'll give a short critique of each.

Truemind Style: Sorry to say it, but I can see this being a bit overpowered. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a 10th level Truemind Disciple could spend 20 PP to gain +10 attack/+10d6 damage for all attacks in a round. Assuming you get Time Stands Still and make it to BAB +16, your looking at +80d6 damage in a round (most attacks will hit with the huge bonus) for the cost of 20 PP. Personally I would change this so that it is a standard action that includes both the spending of the PP and making one strike. A +10d6 damage strike with a +10 bonus to hit (Power Attack away!) is powerful enough for a first level ability IMO.

Yeah; this one I wasn't sure about. I'll knock it down to one attack per round.

True Unity: Looks fine to me as a mechanic, but the math is a bit screwy IMO. Does your formula mean a initiator level 9 character with a 26 primary stat could spend 4 PP to add +2 DC? If so I guess it's readable, but I would do away with the forumula for something more simple.
The intent here was to make Strikes augmentable like Powers. I'll try to clean up the presentation.

True Adaption: Sounds ok, but from my limited knowledge of psionics, preserving the PP cap when manifesting powers is a sacred cow of sorts. Maybe to keep it from getting out of hand you should add that a power manifested in this way cannot be affected by the overchannel feat or the wilder's wild surge ability (I seem to remember seeing that kind of mechanic in this sort of situation before). Just a thought, but like I said, I'm no expert on psionics.
Okay. This one was supposed to keep the cap, just reduce the PP spent to reach the cap. Again, I'll clean that up.

Again, I'm not expert with psionics, but I know that the focus is one of the balancing mechanisms they use for many abilities. The problem I see here is the potential (maybe?) to be expending your focus more than once in a round. Adding something like "when you gain your psionic focus through the instant clarity feat, it cannot be expended until after your turn is completed." Maybe that's too limiting though...I dunno.
That's what I was mentioning at the end. I'm probably just going to have to throw in a universal "No extra Swift Actions" statement in some form or other. This is what the Psicrystal Containment comments were addressing. It's a hard mechanic to balance, though... This allows a constant 'taking 15,' leaving one move action open per turn. A move action is rather benign, but I'd like to keep it in check. I might throw this ability at the CharOps boards to abuse. If they have something that doesn't absolutely reek of cheese, I'll clean it up... somehow.

True Balance: Interesting. Honestly I would prefer a hard and fast X uses/day rather than an increased DC to use. Assuming you get your primary ability in the high 20s/low 30s this is a very powerful ability. I wouldn't really like to see a character using it more than 3x/day. As it stands it is prone to abuse. +10 concentration items are printed (I think one is a third eye in XPH), and the item creation rules allow up to +30 competence bonus items to skills. Usually people don't invest that much, but the point is that you could abuse the mechanic with a +60 concentration modifier or something like that. That would be cleaner and would reduce dice rolls and abuse. I may actually make it a stance and apply to one roll per round. Things would be easier and the game would, for the most part, remain unbroken.

Truemind Mastery: This seems reasonable as written. The 1x/encounter may strike your fancy, but I agree that balance issues would arise if you allow it to operate via some other mechanic.

Yeah. It's probably the best way to go; it's just too close to JPM for my liking. I don't see any easy alternatives, though,so I'll use it.

Final thoughts: All in all a nice PrC. I think a few of the abilities could be cleaned up a bit, but overall very creative and original from what I've seen. I would also like to see a bit more fluff at the beginning to explain what motivates a character to study both the psionic and martial adept paths at the same time, but that's obviously not a big deal.
I was trying to gauge if there was hope for the class before I played with the fluff, but I could do that too. That can wait until I've gotten some sleep so I'll leave it for a while.
Overall I realize I was critcal of a lot of things, but that was mostly just to bring to attention any potential problems you may not have seen. I don't necessarily think the PrC is far overpowered as is (except maybe Truemind Style), but I think it's better to be overly critical that too lax! Not a problem, that's why I put it on the boards. I wanted to avoid going too far overboard in constraint (funny as that sounds) since I want this to be playable. I just wasn't sure how far I could get away with going.

Also since you are obviously familiar with ToB mechanics, would you be willing to PEACH my Devoted Enforcer PrC? I would appreciate it if you find the time!

Sure. It'll probably be about a day before I have time to look through it thouroughly.
gabrion
09-28-07, 05:14 PM I was not-so-subtly modeling this off of the Jade Phoenix Mage in terms of design (Ideally, both will be on par with the Swiftblade, but I'm not sure). I'll look over it again, but this will probably stay.

*Scratches head as he looks back through ToB*

Wow I guess I overlooked the fact that both JPM and RKV are full BAB PrCs. In that light yours totally makes sense.

[qoute]Both example multiclass caster/martial adepts PrCs in ToB gain access to each level's maneuvers. This will probably stay too. I'm not sure about the missed manifester level. I think I'd prefer to get it out of the way quickly to minimize abuse of the class.[/quote]

That seems fine and it does model the other two PrCs. I guess I was just thinking that missing manifester levels makes the most sense when the ability you get at that level is especially powerful. Works either way though, and like you said, if it's going to be 8/10 no matter what, you can be sure to limit power abuse by making the character lose manifester levels sooner rather than latter.

[quoteSure. It'll probably be about a day before I have time to look through it thouroughly.[/QUOTE]

Thx for looking at that for me. I read your critique and I'm putting together a response.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DoctorWeasel 09-28-07, 12:40 AM	The Truemind Disciple: A Psychic Practitioner of the Sublime Way The Truemind Disciples are discipline incarnate. They are able to tap their minds to fuel their combat skills and to directly manipulate the world around themselves. They are knowledgable in both the ways of the mind and the ways of the blade. Prerequisites: Feats: Psionic Meditation, Proficiency with all Diamond Mind weapons, Instant Clarity (in this case Instant Clarity may not be used in Psionic Meditation’s stead) Skills: Autohypnosis: 4 ranks; Balance: 4 ranks; Concentration: 8 ranks Manifesting: Able to manifest 2nd level powers Maneuvers: At least two maneuvers and at least one Diamond Mind Stance Level BA Fort Ref Will Ma. Kn Ma. Rdy St. Kn Special Abilities Manifesting 1: 1 0 0 2 0 0 0 Truemind Style 2: 2 0 0 3 1 0 0 True Unity +1 level existing Manifesting Class 3: 3 1 1 3 0 1 0 +1 level existing Manifesting Class 4: 4 1 1 4 1 0 0 True Adaption +1 level existing Manifesting Class 5: 5 1 1 4 0 0 1 +1 level existing Manifesting Class 6: 6 2 2 5 1 1 0 True Persistance 7: 7 2 2 5 0 0 0 +1 level existing Manifesting Class 8: 8 2 2 6 1 0 0 True Balance +1 level existing Manifesting Class 9: 9 3 3 6 0 1 0 +1 level existing Manifesting Class 10: 10 3 3 7 1 0 0 Truemind Mastery +1 level existing Manifesting Class HD: d6 Skill Points: 2+Intelligence modifier Skill List: Autohypnosis, Balance, Concentration, Craft, Intimidate, Knowledge (Psionics), Martial Lore, Profession, Psicraft Maneuvers: All Truemind Disciple adds his full class level to determine his Initiator level. Every even level grants one Maneuver from the Diamond Mind discipline. Upon reaching level 5, a Truemind Disciple can learn one Diamond Mind Stance. Manifesting: At each level beside first and sixth, a Truemind Disciple gains new powers known, power points and manifester level for the purposes of determining the maximum power point usage of his powers as if he had leveled up in his previous psionic class. Truemind Style: As a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, a Truemind Disciple can expend up to 2 Power Points per class level to channel their psychic power through one Diamond Mind weapon. one attack made this round with that weapon gain +1 to hit and +1d6 to damage for every two Power Points spent this way. This ability may be used once per round. Additionally, while recovering maneuvers, the Truemind Disciple automatically gains Psionic Focus. True Unity: A Truemind Disciple of second level or higher may add his primary manifesting ability (Wisdom for a Psychic Warrior, Intelligence for a Psion, Charisma for a Wilder) modifier to all Concentration Checks and strike DCs in place of his regular modifiers. Additionally, he may spend 2 pp to increase the DCs of his strikes by one to a maximum of 10+(maximum Maneuver level available) + (Relevant Ability modifier). True Adaption: A 4th level Truemind Disciple may expend a Diamond Mind maneuver and Psionic Focus to manifest a power with a level up to one half of his class level at no Power Point cost. This Power can be augmented as normal for the regular Power Point cost, though augmentations can not exceed the Truemind Disciple's normal manifesting limits. A Truemind Disciple may not use the Psicrystal Containment feat to activate this ability. True Persistance: A 6th level Truemind Disciple is able to stretch the capacity of his mind without tire; they gain the ability to use the Instant Clarity feat any number of times per day. True Balance: As a swift action, an 8th level Truemind Disciple may forgo the normal benefit of any Diamond Mind stance they are in in order to add his primary Manifesting ability modifier to any one Attack roll, damage roll, Saving throw or skill check each round. As a second swift action, the Disciple may deactivate this ability to regain the benefits of their former stance. Truemind Mastery: Upon reaching 10th level, a Truemind Disciple may use Quicken Power on any Power without increasing its Power Point consumption, though he must still expend his Psionic Focus. This ability must be used immediately after successfully executing a Diamond Mind strike (if an opponent beats a save DC to negate all benefit of the strike, it is considered unsuccessful). Manifesting this Power may consume Power Points up to the Truemind Disciple's Manifeter level minus 6. This ability can be used once per encounter and a Truemind Disciple may not use the Psicrystal Containment feat to activate this ability. --------------------------- So what are you folks' opinions on this? Especially if you have ideas on seperating from the JPM and combining Psionics with Maneuvers. I know this has been done before, but the two I've seen have either been cut-and-paste jobs from the Elocater or have ignored Psionic Focus altogether. My main concern is it being overpowered, so any suggestions to tone it down while maintaining the same concepts would be appreciated. Extra Swift actions will break the game like crazy if they become available. Is there a way to prevent them with more finesse that an outright "No extra Swift Actions" statement?
gabrion 09-28-07, 01:26 AM	I have more experience with ToB than with psionics, but I'll offer as much of a coherent critique as I can. The requirements seem appropriate. Two feats, a few different skills (one making sure the character is at least 5th level), manifesting, and maneuvers + stance is a good base I think. If anything, the maneuver requirements might be a tad harsh, but no harm done really. If I were to change anything it would be simply to have at least 2 maneuvers and one diamond mind stance. I realize your intent may be to force the character to have at least three levels in a martial class, but I don't think it would do a ton of harm to allow them to get off with just one. Think of normal psionic gish PrCs (ie Slayer) - IIRC one level of fighter (or is it ranger?) is all you need. Ok, on to the numbers. Saves and skills seem appropriate. Personally I think the BAB might be more appropriate as 3/4 than full progression. Most full BAB PrCs that likewise advance casting at most levels are pretty slim on other abilities (Eldritch Knight being a perfect example). In this case, you are getting pretty much full advancement as far as martial maneuvers go, which combined with 8/10 manifesting and a full BAB might be a tad much. I think it would make more sense to have a d8 HD and 3/4 BAB, but that's just my opinion. Maneuver's and manifester progression seem ok if you make the BAB change. You get a lot of maneuver's known, so I think it's appropriate that you only gave yourself three maneuvers readied and only one more stance learned. 8/10 manifesting seems fine, but I would actually move the +manifester level at 10th level down to 6th level. I think it's more appropriate to miss out on a manifester level when you get the Truemind Mastery than when you get True Persistence. Ok, so on to class abilities. I'll give a short critique of each. Truemind Style: Sorry to say it, but I can see this being a bit overpowered. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a 10th level Truemind Disciple could spend 20 PP to gain +10 attack/+10d6 damage for all attacks in a round. Assuming you get Time Stands Still and make it to BAB +16, your looking at +80d6 damage in a round (most attacks will hit with the huge bonus) for the cost of 20 PP. Personally I would change this so that it is a standard action that includes both the spending of the PP and making one strike. A +10d6 damage strike with a +10 bonus to hit (Power Attack away!) is powerful enough for a first level ability IMO. True Unity: Looks fine to me as a mechanic, but the math is a bit screwy IMO. Does your formula mean a initiator level 9 character with a 26 primary stat could spend 4 PP to add +2 DC? If so I guess it's readable, but I would do away with the forumula for something more simple. True Adaption: Sounds ok, but from my limited knowledge of psionics, preserving the PP cap when manifesting powers is a sacred cow of sorts. Maybe to keep it from getting out of hand you should add that a power manifested in this way cannot be affected by the overchannel feat or the wilder's wild surge ability (I seem to remember seeing that kind of mechanic in this sort of situation before). Just a thought, but like I said, I'm no expert on psionics. Again, I'm not expert with psionics, but I know that the focus is one of the balancing mechanisms they use for many abilities. The problem I see here is the potential (maybe?) to be expending your focus more than once in a round. Adding something like "when you gain your psionic focus through the instant clarity feat, it cannot be expended until after your turn is completed." Maybe that's too limiting though...I dunno. True Balance: Interesting. Honestly I would prefer a hard and fast X uses/day rather than an increased DC to use. Assuming you get your primary ability in the high 20s/low 30s this is a very powerful ability. I wouldn't really like to see a character using it more than 3x/day. As it stands it is prone to abuse. +10 concentration items are printed (I think one is a third eye in XPH), and the item creation rules allow up to +30 competence bonus items to skills. Usually people don't invest that much, but the point is that you could abuse the mechanic with a +60 concentration modifier or something like that. Truemind Mastery: This seems reasonable as written. The 1x/encounter may strike your fancy, but I agree that balance issues would arise if you allow it to operate via some other mechanic. Final thoughts: All in all a nice PrC. I think a few of the abilities could be cleaned up a bit, but overall very creative and original from what I've seen. I would also like to see a bit more fluff at the beginning to explain what motivates a character to study both the psionic and martial adept paths at the same time, but that's obviously not a big deal. Overall I realize I was critcal of a lot of things, but that was mostly just to bring to attention any potential problems you may not have seen. I don't necessarily think the PrC is far overpowered as is (except maybe Truemind Style), but I think it's better to be overly critical that too lax!
gabrion 09-28-07, 01:35 AM	Also since you are obviously familiar with ToB mechanics, would you be willing to PEACH my Devoted Enforcer (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=930370) PrC? I would appreciate it if you find the time!
DoctorWeasel 09-28-07, 02:35 AM	If I were to change anything it would be simply to have at least 2 maneuvers and one diamond mind stance. I realize your intent may be to force the character to have at least three levels in a martial class, but I don't think it would do a ton of harm to allow them to get off with just one. Think of normal psionic gish PrCs (ie Slayer) - IIRC one level of fighter (or is it ranger?) is all you need. A Psion 4/Crusader 1 would handily qualify since the Psion levels count as half of an initiator level. This does dictate the order of classes a character takes though. My intention was to make sure the class remained unavailable until level 6, but I'll fix that as it doesn't really contribute anything. Ok, on to the numbers. Saves and skills seem appropriate. Personally I think the BAB might be more appropriate as 3/4 than full progression. Most full BAB PrCs that likewise advance casting at most levels are pretty slim on other abilities (Eldritch Knight being a perfect example). In this case, you are getting pretty much full advancement as far as martial maneuvers go, which combined with 8/10 manifesting and a full BAB might be a tad much. I think it would make more sense to have a d8 HD and 3/4 BAB, but that's just my opinion. I was not-so-subtly modeling this off of the Jade Phoenix Mage in terms of design (Ideally, both will be on par with the Swiftblade, but I'm not sure). I'll look over it again, but this will probably stay. Maneuver's and manifester progression seem ok if you make the BAB change. You get a lot of maneuver's known, so I think it's appropriate that you only gave yourself three maneuvers readied and only one more stance learned. 8/10 manifesting seems fine, but I would actually move the +manifester level at 10th level down to 6th level. I think it's more appropriate to miss out on a manifester level when you get the Truemind Mastery than when you get True Persistence. Both example multiclass caster/martial adepts PrCs in ToB gain access to each level's maneuvers. This will probably stay too. I'm not sure about the missed manifester level. I think I'd prefer to get it out of the way quickly to minimize abuse of the class. Ok, so on to class abilities. I'll give a short critique of each. Truemind Style: Sorry to say it, but I can see this being a bit overpowered. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a 10th level Truemind Disciple could spend 20 PP to gain +10 attack/+10d6 damage for all attacks in a round. Assuming you get Time Stands Still and make it to BAB +16, your looking at +80d6 damage in a round (most attacks will hit with the huge bonus) for the cost of 20 PP. Personally I would change this so that it is a standard action that includes both the spending of the PP and making one strike. A +10d6 damage strike with a +10 bonus to hit (Power Attack away!) is powerful enough for a first level ability IMO. Yeah; this one I wasn't sure about. I'll knock it down to one attack per round. True Unity: Looks fine to me as a mechanic, but the math is a bit screwy IMO. Does your formula mean a initiator level 9 character with a 26 primary stat could spend 4 PP to add +2 DC? If so I guess it's readable, but I would do away with the forumula for something more simple. The intent here was to make Strikes augmentable like Powers. I'll try to clean up the presentation. True Adaption: Sounds ok, but from my limited knowledge of psionics, preserving the PP cap when manifesting powers is a sacred cow of sorts. Maybe to keep it from getting out of hand you should add that a power manifested in this way cannot be affected by the overchannel feat or the wilder's wild surge ability (I seem to remember seeing that kind of mechanic in this sort of situation before). Just a thought, but like I said, I'm no expert on psionics. Okay. This one was supposed to keep the cap, just reduce the PP spent to reach the cap. Again, I'll clean that up. Again, I'm not expert with psionics, but I know that the focus is one of the balancing mechanisms they use for many abilities. The problem I see here is the potential (maybe?) to be expending your focus more than once in a round. Adding something like "when you gain your psionic focus through the instant clarity feat, it cannot be expended until after your turn is completed." Maybe that's too limiting though...I dunno. That's what I was mentioning at the end. I'm probably just going to have to throw in a universal "No extra Swift Actions" statement in some form or other. This is what the Psicrystal Containment comments were addressing. It's a hard mechanic to balance, though... This allows a constant 'taking 15,' leaving one move action open per turn. A move action is rather benign, but I'd like to keep it in check. I might throw this ability at the CharOps boards to abuse. If they have something that doesn't absolutely reek of cheese, I'll clean it up... somehow. True Balance: Interesting. Honestly I would prefer a hard and fast X uses/day rather than an increased DC to use. Assuming you get your primary ability in the high 20s/low 30s this is a very powerful ability. I wouldn't really like to see a character using it more than 3x/day. As it stands it is prone to abuse. +10 concentration items are printed (I think one is a third eye in XPH), and the item creation rules allow up to +30 competence bonus items to skills. Usually people don't invest that much, but the point is that you could abuse the mechanic with a +60 concentration modifier or something like that. That would be cleaner and would reduce dice rolls and abuse. I may actually make it a stance and apply to one roll per round. Things would be easier and the game would, for the most part, remain unbroken. Truemind Mastery: This seems reasonable as written. The 1x/encounter may strike your fancy, but I agree that balance issues would arise if you allow it to operate via some other mechanic. Yeah. It's probably the best way to go; it's just too close to JPM for my liking. I don't see any easy alternatives, though,so I'll use it. Final thoughts: All in all a nice PrC. I think a few of the abilities could be cleaned up a bit, but overall very creative and original from what I've seen. I would also like to see a bit more fluff at the beginning to explain what motivates a character to study both the psionic and martial adept paths at the same time, but that's obviously not a big deal. I was trying to gauge if there was hope for the class before I played with the fluff, but I could do that too. That can wait until I've gotten some sleep so I'll leave it for a while. Overall I realize I was critcal of a lot of things, but that was mostly just to bring to attention any potential problems you may not have seen. I don't necessarily think the PrC is far overpowered as is (except maybe Truemind Style), but I think it's better to be overly critical that too lax! Not a problem, that's why I put it on the boards. I wanted to avoid going too far overboard in constraint (funny as that sounds) since I want this to be playable. I just wasn't sure how far I could get away with going. Also since you are obviously familiar with ToB mechanics, would you be willing to PEACH my Devoted Enforcer PrC? I would appreciate it if you find the time! Sure. It'll probably be about a day before I have time to look through it thouroughly.
gabrion 09-28-07, 05:14 PM	I was not-so-subtly modeling this off of the Jade Phoenix Mage in terms of design (Ideally, both will be on par with the Swiftblade, but I'm not sure). I'll look over it again, but this will probably stay. Scratches head as he looks back through ToB Wow I guess I overlooked the fact that both JPM and RKV are full BAB PrCs. In that light yours totally makes sense. [qoute]Both example multiclass caster/martial adepts PrCs in ToB gain access to each level's maneuvers. This will probably stay too. I'm not sure about the missed manifester level. I think I'd prefer to get it out of the way quickly to minimize abuse of the class.[/quote] That seems fine and it does model the other two PrCs. I guess I was just thinking that missing manifester levels makes the most sense when the ability you get at that level is especially powerful. Works either way though, and like you said, if it's going to be 8/10 no matter what, you can be sure to limit power abuse by making the character lose manifester levels sooner rather than latter. [quoteSure. It'll probably be about a day before I have time to look through it thouroughly.[/QUOTE] Thx for looking at that for me. I read your critique and I'm putting together a response.