Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jbsaff 04-13-07, 02:12 AM	EDIT: Removed, as I may be able to use this concept in the production of a gaming supplement (which may be distributed for free). Given the policy on this forum, I felt it best to withdraw my submission in order to insure my ability to do so, if I so choose. Feel free to contact me for a copy of this Prestige Class, though I doubt it will be in high demand.
AngelLemmingThief 04-13-07, 08:20 AM	Answers - 1) I would go with 10 levels, you've got enough to fill them. And the theme of the class fits more of a devotion (10 levels) than a dip. 2) Power level looks good to me. It is good vs undead and not stuffed against other opponents. 3) I wouldn't add this personally, unless you want to play up the personal sacrifice angle. 4) I don't :) I should re-word 'rebuke undead' as I think it is currently unclear. For painful rebuke I would go with the first option, as it is the most straight-forward.
jbsaff 04-13-07, 01:54 PM	3) I wouldn't add this personally, unless you want to play up the personal sacrifice angle. Personally, I would rather leave this to the player and GM to roleplay out. Characters that were (or are still trying to be) Good will have plenty of RP opportunity, while neutral PCs will care less about it anyway. And I don't think I want to make it so that the player has to look over their shoulder to check for a random Paladin or the like before they use their abilities to help someone.
AngelLemmingThief 04-13-07, 05:29 PM	Good plan ;)
jbsaff 04-16-07, 01:58 AM	Anyone else have any thoughts? I'm a bit suprised; I expected more people to have something to say. It gives me the creepy feeling that maybe this idea has come up before... Oh yeah, and :bump:
jbsaff 04-18-07, 11:40 PM	I've gotten some additional feedback from other sources... It has been suggested that the loss of two caster levels is a heavy hit in power considering what is being offered. I'm considering giving back the caster level at level 7. Also, Disrupting Weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/disruptingWeapon.htm) has been called into question due to the fact that the effect is restricted by HD and allows a will save. Any thoughts for a better spell or ability for those levels? Maybe something like Righteous Might (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/righteousMight.htm)? Finally, due to the fact that undead are largely mindless, the bonus to social-type skills from the Favored Enemy ability seems like winning $.10 in the lottery. Would something like stacking bonuses to attack, damage, and rebuke/command checks be more helpful? Thanks in advance!
jbsaff 04-19-07, 07:59 PM	New update... Lots more bonus feat options, new weapon ability, and better progression balance. Thanks to all that have contributed, both online and at home. Any additional thoughts/comments/ideas?
ReaderOfPosts 04-21-07, 05:40 PM	One thing I might add is a quick ability at level one giving him an aura of spawnscreen: creatures killed by an undead within 10ft/class level that would normally rise as undead instead die normally. This ability also extends to victims of any undead under the undertakers control. or something of the sort. This fits with the flavor and stops him from indirectly making undead with undead that spawn more from their victims. My concern of balance is how powerful of undead he can control. The second two possible abilities for painful rebuke set up the Undertaker to be a powerful necromancer: out of core he can use dominating power to control an undead of his hitdice+6 (with phylactery of undead turning); when combined with Libris Mortis (and the rod of undead mastery) he can control two of them (and with rod of defiance, lyre of the restful soul, and scepter of the netherworld, you could control one undead of 2xlevel +12, though he's really limited by his turning check (level +9). An eigth level character with a nightwing... I would drop dominating power if you go with either of the second two painful rebukes. I don't like how limited his power is if you keep the first one, however. Maybe a slower decay than the damage: undead under his control loose one point of charisma a day and are destroyed when they reach a charisma of zero (so if a character was lucky enough roll a check above 20 he has a nightwing for 18 days, manageable enough for a DM while the DM remembers not to let them know where high level undead are).
jbsaff 04-22-07, 02:51 AM	Excellent idea on the spawnscreen. Thanks a bunch... Good catch on the abusability of that feat. I'm going to look into this a bit further... I like the idea of decay over time, since this class isn't supposed to be keeping the undead it commands.
jbsaff 07-30-07, 01:53 AM	Okay, it looks like I am finally going to be able to incorporate this concept into my game. Any new eyes out there that might be able to give additional input before the grand unveiling to my players?
Lord_Glathil 07-31-07, 04:25 PM	I enjoy the angle the Undertaker takes on the undead issue. Most people view anyone controlling the undead to be completely evil, whereas that may not be the case. In the zombie apocolypse game setting, a character of this class could turn the tide, and even in normal games would still see good use. Only forseeable problem is a game with a lack of zombies. A spiteful GM or just game circumstances could possibly render the class obsolete. That said, it's surprising how often adventurers find themselves in graveyards filled to bursting with walking corpses. Two thumbs up for the idea. May not be suited for a very small game, but would definitely round out a larger group very well.
jbsaff 08-14-07, 11:38 AM	After some playtesting, I am concerned about one aspect that came up. All characters that become Undertakers gain a "bonus" of +2 on their effective rebuking level. This means that an Arcanist (which can't qualify until level 11) has an effective rebuking level of 3 (Undertaker level + 2). Druids, who can qualify in time for level 8, are in a similar pickle: they need the +2 bonus to rebuking in order to be able to rebuke (much less command) anything close to the CR that they should be facing. Ex-Paladins, assuming that they were allowed to enter the PrC and keep their abilities, can qualify for the class in time for level 6. With the +2 bonus, this means that their rebuking level is a 5 (2 from Paladin + Undertaker level + 2), almost in line with a Cleric. This is good, since the Paladin already had some divine connection. With the Cleric though, it's a bit different. A Cleric qualifies for Undertaker at level 8, meaning that their rebuking level is a 10 (7 from Cleric + Undertaker level + 2). This means that they can rebuke, with a good rebuke check, a 14 HD undead. If for some reason a cleric channeling negative energy took the Dominating Power feat descibed above at level 6, a level 8 character could command an undead creature with almost twice the HD of the character. Looking through the SRD, this includes CR 8 monsters like the Bodak and Morhg. These are appropriate CR for the Cleric and his party (and given that the character has chosen to specialize as an undead killing machine, I don't think that it is a problem for him/her to dominate combat with undead). However, what about other sources? I don't own Complete Divine (borrowed it from a friend when I initially designed the class), or Libris Mortis. Does anyone know of any major issues? Another thing: Looking through the Cleric domains, I see the Sun Domain allows a Greater Turning 1/day to destroy instead of turn undead. What, if anything should be done for the Undertaker Cleric that took the Sun domain? Mechanically, the "fair" thing seems that they ought to be able to use the Dominating Power feat for free 1/day. However, that doesn't fit with the concept and mechanics of the Sun domain. Allowing them to perform a Greater Turning 1/day contradicts the Undertaker class description. I think the middle of the road option might be to allow the undertaker to select a replacement domain from the diety's portfolio. Any ideas/suggestions/comments?
jbsaff 08-20-07, 05:31 PM	At this point, I am going to consider the 5 level progression cast by the wayside. I like the 10 level much better. I also updated Painful Rebuke to allow a character to use nasty undead effectively without making the undead a permanent member of the team. If people think this is good, just say so. The silence is so eerie.