Post/Author/DateTime	Post
arittler 07-29-07, 12:28 PM	i know a lot of people feel the AC is a bit over powered so many may hate what i've put together :) but tell me what you think, i would appreciate the feedback. (all prerequisites, etc are the same as the AC) if a complete description of abilities, etc is needed let me know. Thanks! Level BAB Ref Fort Will Special Spells per day/Spells known ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1st +1 +0 +2 +0 Weapon touch, Empower touch +1 level of existing class 2nd +2 +0 +3 +0 Swift touch +1 level of existing class 3rd +3 +1 +3 +1 +1 level of existing class 4th +4 +1 +4 +1 Arcane boost +1 level of existing class 5th +5 +1 +4 +1 Martial arcanist +1 level of existing class
StevenO 07-29-07, 02:25 PM	You need to do a little more explaining about your special abilities. Even without knowing what they actually are I'd say you need to change the Prereqs and probably should make them a little harder. Because offense is typically said to outperform defense I'd guess this class is far stronger than the AbC. I presume "Weapon Touch" is similiar to abilities found in both the Duskblade and SpellSword that allows you to channel a touch spell through your weapon attack; yey more easy damage. Giving all the touch attack empower for free is also a big damage increase. Getting level two and letting them get off the empower touch spell into their weapon is again a big power boost. Given that the AbC's "Arcane Boosts" are defensive in nature I'd guess these are offensive which is again a power increase. The Abjurant Champion is already consider (nearly) broken. The only thing that really keeps it from being broken are its high BAB entry requirement and that it is basically defensive in nature. Given than Offense normally trumps Defense that puts this class above the AbC making it too good.
arittler 07-29-07, 06:57 PM	You need to do a little more explaining about your special abilities. Even without knowing what they actually are I'd say you need to change the Prereqs and probably should make them a little harder. Weapon touch: deliver touch attacks via melee weapon Empower touch: empower "touch" feat for touch spells delivered via weapon touch swift touch: as swift abjuration, etc. Arcane boost: as AC Martial arcanist: as AC Because offense is typically said to outperform defense I'd guess this class is far stronger than the AbC. I presume "Weapon Touch" is similiar to abilities found in both the Duskblade and SpellSword that allows you to channel a touch spell through your weapon attack; yey more easy damage. Giving all the touch attack empower for free is also a big damage increase. Getting level two and letting them get off the empower touch spell into their weapon is again a big power boost. Given that the AbC's "Arcane Boosts" are defensive in nature I'd guess these are offensive which is again a power increase.see brief descriptions above The Abjurant Champion is already consider (nearly) broken. The only thing that really keeps it from being broken are its high BAB entry requirement and that it is basically defensive in nature. Given than Offense normally trumps Defense that puts this class above the AbC making it too good.it's not that i don't agree with you here, but weapon touch is not that great of an ability. it's not exactly the same ability as "arcane channeling" (spellsword & duskblade)...only touch spells can be delivered and they are not "stored"...
StevenO 07-29-07, 10:59 PM	And the difference between "stored" and "holding a charge" is what? Discharging a touch attack through a weapon may not be as versatile as the arcane channeling but it is still potent. As a side benefit you can also extend your "touch" by using reach weapons. Looking up the Arcane Boost I guess it is pretty general. I'd still say free empowered, swift touch spells are too strong compared to what the AbC gets. Extended Abjuration may be useful at lower level it isn't always going to affect multiple encounters which makes it worthless while empowering every touch spell will affect every encounter one is used in. I admit there are some abjurations that can be used "offensively" so swift spells do help there but often a Swift Abjuration just makes up for not having the spell cast pre-combat. Being able to "buff up" while fighting isn't so mechanically different than taking a round or two pre-combat to do so but gets the character into the fight faster; casting swift touch spells isn't usually something that could have been done earlier although it will likely end the fight sooner.
Khatoblepas 07-29-07, 11:00 PM	One sentence for you: Quickened Empowered Shivering Touch = 4d6 dex damage as a swift action using only a 3rd level slot. And in case you didn't notice: Coup-de-grace is a full round action. Getting why this class would be so devastating yet? I'm not even TRYING to optimise. Quicken Spell is +4, Empower is +2. You've given touch spells the equivilant of 7 levels. They can cast 10th level effective spells in 3rd level spell slots. 1d6+(1d6/2) mental ability score penalty as a swift action/part of a full attack. Maximise this for 6+(1-3) penalty on mental ability scores. No saving throw. Against low-int/wis/cha creatures, it makes them susceptable to your coup-de-grace. Again. And none of the squished wizard mess if it fails, since you're a gish. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/touchofIdiocy.htm) Fancy 15d6 max temporary hit points every time you expend your swift action and 3rd level spell slot? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/vampiricTouch.htm) Or even better, 5th level spell slot for 60HP+5d6. I don't know whether it's the empowerment or the swift action casting, or a mixture of both that's bugging me. I do know that you shouldn't get 10th level spell effects from 3rd level touch spells, though.