Trapsmith - opinions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Trapsmith - opinions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
The_Shaman
11-11-07, 05:27 PM Hi, in one of the PbP games I frequent I play a dwarven fighter/rogue - mostly rogue but with a few extra tricks up his sleeve. I plan on getting a PrC after Fighter2/rogue4, and I was thinking of the Nightsong Enforcer as an overall good fighting rogue prestige class. However, I have a few levels to take care of before that, and I saw the Trapsmith in the Dungeonscape book. I liked the idea - the character is more of an technical expert than a full-time skulk - but I'm not sure how good the class is. Also, it seems a little hard to tie it in with NE... Has anyone tried the PrC, and what do you think of it?
The_Shaman
11-13-07, 04:57 AM Anyone?
Leress
11-13-07, 06:28 AM In my opinion it is not very good. The damage output is very low and the choices you have are very limited to the point of being debilitating. It is not really worth it to go into the class, since you lose more than you gain.
Tordak
11-13-07, 03:01 PM Just wondering if the trapsmith is the class I think off : is it the 5 (or perhaps even 3) levels PrC? If so, take a look at the spells he get; that alone is worth the 5(3) levels. You get Greater Dispel Magic as a 3rd level spell, it's simply insane! The class abilities are fun even if not very strong, and you get good skill points. I think it's worth the detour. Perhaps not as much a fighter as your initial character.
Leress
11-13-07, 04:59 PM Just wondering if the trapsmith is the class I think off : is it the 5 (or perhaps even 3) levels PrC? If so, take a look at the spells he get; that alone is worth the 5(3) levels. You get Greater Dispel Magic as a 3rd level spell, it's simply insane! The class abilities are fun even if not very strong, and you get good skill points. I think it's worth the detour. Perhaps not as much a fighter as your initial character.

Except that the DC for Greater Dispel is pretty low. The spell list is good, it just not very good if you are coming from a non-caster direction. It maybe worth it to go in if you took classes like the Artificer.

The booby traps are weak at best, maybe just maybe if you allow to add the ones from DMG2 it would make it better.
Essex
11-13-07, 05:12 PM I dislike the Trapsmith for two reasons. First is that at around the same time as Trapsmith came out WotC also came out with the far superior Combat Trapsmith in Complete Scoundrel. Second is that there are a few balance issues that I posted to an errata thread for Trapsmith. I'll repost them again here:

pg. 54 - The Trapsmith's spells are potentially unbalancing to the game. Assuming that the character has a caster level equal to his class level then a character who takes all of the levels in this prestige class has a caster level of 5. This qualifies him to take the Craft Wand feat. Many of the spells on the character's spell list are normally too high in level to make wands of and ALL of them are at a lower spell level than can be found for any other class (some of them are a full three levels lower than normal). This means that the character can make wands of a limited number of spells for a fraction of the cost paid by any other character and can make wands that no other character can make. To fix this problem I would get rid of the Spells Known table and give the character a number of 1/day spell-like abilities (chosen from the provided list) equal to the Spells per Day entry on Table 3-3. While this does potentially let the character use stoneskin 1/day without paying the material cost this is still significantly better than letting him crank out cheap wands of stoneskin.

pg. 55 - The Quick Fingers prestige class ability seems to stack with the quick fingers alternate Rogue class ability in such a way as to actually slow down the character's attempts to disarm wicked difficulty traps.
The_Shaman
11-13-07, 05:42 PM I dislike the Trapsmith for two reasons. First is that at around the same time as Trapsmith came out WotC also came out with the far superior Combat Trapsmith in Complete Scoundrel. Second is that there are a few balance issues that I posted to an errata thread for Trapsmith. I'll repost them again here:.

Far superior, hmm? I don't know, I liked the trapsmith more tbh. The way I see it, the combat trapsmith is better at setting traps (and has better ones), but the trapsmith has better rounded abilities - and I was looking for a PrC that is good at dealing with traps, not necessary at setting them (though it could be a good ability as well). Spellcasting, a bonus to search/disable/open lock, and the rest of their abilities should count for something. Or am I missing something?

As for their spellcasting, it's true, they get some spells on rather low levels, just like the Teflammar Shadowlords. However, that's where the DM can rein things in, say by limiting item creation feats or by making items accessible only by the trapsmith him/herself. Of course, a dedicated trapsetter can just get both ;) .

Anyway, do you think that a rogue can combine the roles implied by the Trapsmith/combat trapsmith and the Nightsong Enforcer? I'm a bit alarmed that both PrCs have less skill points than pure rogues... I may have to jettison some fighter levels to keep up.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The_Shaman 11-11-07, 05:27 PM	Hi, in one of the PbP games I frequent I play a dwarven fighter/rogue - mostly rogue but with a few extra tricks up his sleeve. I plan on getting a PrC after Fighter2/rogue4, and I was thinking of the Nightsong Enforcer as an overall good fighting rogue prestige class. However, I have a few levels to take care of before that, and I saw the Trapsmith in the Dungeonscape book. I liked the idea - the character is more of an technical expert than a full-time skulk - but I'm not sure how good the class is. Also, it seems a little hard to tie it in with NE... Has anyone tried the PrC, and what do you think of it?
The_Shaman 11-13-07, 04:57 AM	Anyone?
Leress 11-13-07, 06:28 AM	In my opinion it is not very good. The damage output is very low and the choices you have are very limited to the point of being debilitating. It is not really worth it to go into the class, since you lose more than you gain.
Tordak 11-13-07, 03:01 PM	Just wondering if the trapsmith is the class I think off : is it the 5 (or perhaps even 3) levels PrC? If so, take a look at the spells he get; that alone is worth the 5(3) levels. You get Greater Dispel Magic as a 3rd level spell, it's simply insane! The class abilities are fun even if not very strong, and you get good skill points. I think it's worth the detour. Perhaps not as much a fighter as your initial character.
Leress 11-13-07, 04:59 PM	Just wondering if the trapsmith is the class I think off : is it the 5 (or perhaps even 3) levels PrC? If so, take a look at the spells he get; that alone is worth the 5(3) levels. You get Greater Dispel Magic as a 3rd level spell, it's simply insane! The class abilities are fun even if not very strong, and you get good skill points. I think it's worth the detour. Perhaps not as much a fighter as your initial character. Except that the DC for Greater Dispel is pretty low. The spell list is good, it just not very good if you are coming from a non-caster direction. It maybe worth it to go in if you took classes like the Artificer. The booby traps are weak at best, maybe just maybe if you allow to add the ones from DMG2 it would make it better.
Essex 11-13-07, 05:12 PM	I dislike the Trapsmith for two reasons. First is that at around the same time as Trapsmith came out WotC also came out with the far superior Combat Trapsmith in Complete Scoundrel. Second is that there are a few balance issues that I posted to an errata thread for Trapsmith. I'll repost them again here: pg. 54 - The Trapsmith's spells are potentially unbalancing to the game. Assuming that the character has a caster level equal to his class level then a character who takes all of the levels in this prestige class has a caster level of 5. This qualifies him to take the Craft Wand feat. Many of the spells on the character's spell list are normally too high in level to make wands of and ALL of them are at a lower spell level than can be found for any other class (some of them are a full three levels lower than normal). This means that the character can make wands of a limited number of spells for a fraction of the cost paid by any other character and can make wands that no other character can make. To fix this problem I would get rid of the Spells Known table and give the character a number of 1/day spell-like abilities (chosen from the provided list) equal to the Spells per Day entry on Table 3-3. While this does potentially let the character use stoneskin 1/day without paying the material cost this is still significantly better than letting him crank out cheap wands of stoneskin. pg. 55 - The Quick Fingers prestige class ability seems to stack with the quick fingers alternate Rogue class ability in such a way as to actually slow down the character's attempts to disarm wicked difficulty traps.
The_Shaman 11-13-07, 05:42 PM	I dislike the Trapsmith for two reasons. First is that at around the same time as Trapsmith came out WotC also came out with the far superior Combat Trapsmith in Complete Scoundrel. Second is that there are a few balance issues that I posted to an errata thread for Trapsmith. I'll repost them again here:. Far superior, hmm? I don't know, I liked the trapsmith more tbh. The way I see it, the combat trapsmith is better at setting traps (and has better ones), but the trapsmith has better rounded abilities - and I was looking for a PrC that is good at dealing with traps, not necessary at setting them (though it could be a good ability as well). Spellcasting, a bonus to search/disable/open lock, and the rest of their abilities should count for something. Or am I missing something? As for their spellcasting, it's true, they get some spells on rather low levels, just like the Teflammar Shadowlords. However, that's where the DM can rein things in, say by limiting item creation feats or by making items accessible only by the trapsmith him/herself. Of course, a dedicated trapsetter can just get both ;) . Anyway, do you think that a rogue can combine the roles implied by the Trapsmith/combat trapsmith and the Nightsong Enforcer? I'm a bit alarmed that both PrCs have less skill points than pure rogues... I may have to jettison some fighter levels to keep up.