Post/Author/DateTime	Post
olpolok 09-21-07, 02:08 AM	I am planning to play with an initiate of the sevenfold veil but don’t seem to agree with my DM on certain aspects of this class. I asked a couple of people their opinions on the matter but still couldn’t get on an agreement. Each one has a different perspective on the subject. So I am making this argument public to see the general perspective of the people. So here it is: 1)How do you calculate the DC for the ISV wardings? what is the formula? (My DM said it should be base+Casting modifier. I said it should be base+Spell level of the (Sp)+Casting modifier like the formula used by most spell-like abilities.) Note: In my complete arcane says that the base DC is 18 but later on in the class example if you run the numbers it shows that the base DC should be 10. (That was something that really confused us its probably a misprint or something.) 2) Are the wardings affected by an anti-magic field? 3) Do spell-like abilities count as being part of the school of magic of the spell they are similar/emulate or they count as being universal? And if they DO count as being part of a school of magic does that mean that their DC is modified/increased by feats like spell focus, etc. The purpose of this question is to determine if the wardings are affected by spell focus feats since prismatic wall is an abjuration spell and ISV needs spell focus and greater spell focus abjuration to enter the prestige class. 4) If the character is using the Indigo Veil does this mean that he cannot cast spells from inside of the warding as well? 5) How much concealment do the wardings grant? Partial? 3/4 ? Total? (In the CA says that they provide concealment but it doesn’t specify how much.) Bonus) If you wish to add any other valuable information regarding this prestige class your more than welcome.
ManTimeForgot 09-21-07, 02:15 AM	I don't remember what the formula is, sorry. A violet should hedge each other out (like a true prismatic wall), but the rest it is kind of up to the DM since it does not really specify. 4) You cannot cast spells through your own barriers. 5) Concealment in 3.5 doesn't have gradations. It grants 20% miss chance as per the concealment rules. MTF
dman11235 09-21-07, 02:24 AM	1) the DC is 18+primary stat the way I read it. Checking Errata after I post. Okay, that makes twice today that Errata has not come though for me. I say 18+, +2 (see below) 2) yes, they are (sp) 3) I believe they do, but it would be wierd if they did. Checking Errata (on them being (sp) or (su)). Make that three. The definition of a spell like ability agrees.
goawayugh 09-21-07, 08:32 AM	1) It says in the last paragraph of the wardings description exactly how to calculate the DC. The save DC for an initiate's warding is equal to 18 + her primary spellcasting ability modifier.The sample characters are very often wrong. There are even a few examples of sample characters that don't even meet the PrC prereqs. Never go by the numbers in those. 2) Spell-Like Abilities (Sp) Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A few spell-like abilities are unique; these are explained in the text where they are described.I'm not 100% sure of this, but here's my thought. A prismatic wall spell is unaffected by antimagic field therefore the spell-like ability that duplicates it is also unaffected. 3) Spell Focus [General] Choose a school of magic. Benefit Add +1 to the Difficulty Class for all saving throws against spells from the school of magic you select.It specifically says spells not spell-like abilities. Although similar, they are two completely different things. No, it does not work. 4) Indigo veil block line of effect, even for spells you cast. 5) 3.5 no longer has different degrees of concealment. Just concealment and total concealment. Concealment grants 20% miss chance.
Witch 09-21-07, 08:36 AM	5) 3.5 no longer has different degrees of concealment. Just concealment and total concealment. Concealment grants 20% miss chance. The SRD begs to differ. Varying Degrees of Concealment Certain situations may provide more or less than typical concealment, and modify the miss chance accordingly.
goawayugh 09-21-07, 08:51 AM	That is more of a circumstance modifier, similar to what a DM can do for skills. It is saying that 20% is typical, but in the right situation it can change. The diplomacy DC for making an unfriendly creature friendly is 25, but the DM can modify this with circumstance modifiers (for instance, if the PC is talking to a race that for some reason HATES the PC's race). Circumstance modifiers can affect many numeric values in D&D.
dman11235 09-21-07, 12:59 PM	2) I'm not 100% sure of this, but here's my thought. A prismatic wall spell is unaffected by antimagic field therefore the spell-like ability that duplicates it is also unaffected. 3) It specifically says spells not spell-like abilities. Although similar, they are two completely different things. No, it does not work. 2) Oops, my bad. forgot about that. 3)Yes, it doesn't work. Because (sp) abilities are special abilities, and spells are not. Change from my other one.
ManTimeForgot 09-22-07, 04:36 AM	The problem is guys that each individual "layer" is not equivalent to the prismatic wall. The prismatic wall in totality hedges out an antimagic field, but it doesn't say anything about how individual layers interact. It's probably good policy to just make the ItSV wardings immune to antimagic field in general, but "logically" I believe one can only justify that effect for the individual violet layer. MTF