Unseen Seer and Practiced Spellcaster [Archive] - Wizards Community

Unseen Seer and Practiced Spellcaster [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mustafathered
02-23-07, 02:45 PM For a Rogue 2, Wizard 3, Unseen Seer 4 with the Practiced Spellcaster feat what is the non-divination caster level?

Is it min(Character Level, (3 (Wiz) + 4 (Unseen Seer) - 1 (Unseen Seer level 3 special) +4 (practiced spell caster))) = 9 (character level)?

Or is it (min(Character Level, (3 (Wiz) + 4 (Unseen Seer) +4 (practiced spell caster)))) - 1 (Unseen Seer level 3 special) = 8 (character level from practiced spellcaster applied first, followed by -1 from Unseen Seer level 3 special ability)?

Thanks!
Cainin
02-23-07, 02:55 PM As a general rule, Practiced Spellcaster is always added last. Therfore it's in your favor under the previous situation you described. Yet applying it last isn't in favor of things like the Wild Mage prestige class.
Ventilatory_Threshold
02-23-07, 02:59 PM Correction: You apply it when it is most beneficial.
Kadasbrass
02-23-07, 03:05 PM The FAQ states that Practiced Spellcaster can never increase your caster level above hitdice no matter when or how it is added.
Ventilatory_Threshold
02-23-07, 03:19 PM The FAQ states that Practiced Spellcaster can never increase your caster level above hitdice no matter when or how it is added.
The FAQ also states the following:
Does the bonus to caster level from the Practiced Spellcaster feat (from Complete Arcane and Complete Divine) apply before or after other caster level bonuses (such as those from the Good or Healing domains)?

The bonus from Practiced Spellcaster applies whenever it
would be most beneficial to the caster. A 4th-level cleric/4thlevel fighter with the Healing domain and Practiced Spellcaster would cast Conjuration (Healing) spells as a 9th-level caster (base caster level 4th, +4 from Practiced Spellcaster, +1 from the Healing domain). A 4th-level cleric/4th-level rogue with Practiced Spellcaster who activates a bead of karma (from a strand of prayer beads) would cast her spells as a 12th-level caster (base 4, +4 from Practiced Spellcaster, +4 from bead of karma).
mustafathered
02-23-07, 03:36 PM Fast replies - thanks! I'll sit down and discuss how my DM wants to interpret the FAQ before deciding whether to take Unseen Seer to 3rd or higher level. But it is good to know that I was on the right track thinking that in the given example the caster level would be 9, equal to the character level.
Kadasbrass
02-23-07, 03:48 PM Great, I at least thought the FAQ information was at least consistent in this game. Maybe all D&D books need a label stating "Consult your DM before using our products"
mustafathered
02-23-07, 09:10 PM That could lead to a really nasty instance of Gary's Recursion - after all, in order to be a DM the products must already be in use, right? :)

BTW, I'm printing the FAQ now to take with me to the game tomorrow. I will discuss the matter either after or before the game so as not to slow things down. Also, whatever he decides for his campaign I'll be fine with (obviously) but will mention that I think I am in agreement with Wizards' intent (the DM goes to many official sanctioned cons) just so that he is aware.

We're starting the campaign tomorrow at first level, but I like to at least have a character plan that I can then deviate from due to roleplay as I get to know the character. I also like to clear up any possible confusions well ahead of time whenever possible - everyone is generally happier that way.

Thanks again!
allenchan
02-23-07, 09:15 PM Great, I at least thought the FAQ information was at least consistent in this game. Maybe all D&D books need a label stating "Consult your DM before using our products"

There's nothing inconsistent with the FAQ. You always apply things in the most beneficial order. The Practiced Spellcaster is not increase the CL beyond your HD, thats the Healing domain doing that.
Kadasbrass
02-24-07, 02:53 AM Practiced Spellcaster appears twice in the FAQ. The second question, involving a wild mage, paints a picture where the caster level can never go above hitdice no matter how you factor it in.
Ventilatory_Threshold
02-24-07, 11:35 AM Practiced Spellcaster appears twice in the FAQ. The second question, involving a wild mage, paints a picture where the caster level can never go above hitdice no matter how you factor it in.
Yup. As a DM, I wouldn't make the feat go wasted, so personally I'd rule it to always apply when most beneficial.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mustafathered 02-23-07, 02:45 PM	For a Rogue 2, Wizard 3, Unseen Seer 4 with the Practiced Spellcaster feat what is the non-divination caster level? Is it min(Character Level, (3 (Wiz) + 4 (Unseen Seer) - 1 (Unseen Seer level 3 special) +4 (practiced spell caster))) = 9 (character level)? Or is it (min(Character Level, (3 (Wiz) + 4 (Unseen Seer) +4 (practiced spell caster)))) - 1 (Unseen Seer level 3 special) = 8 (character level from practiced spellcaster applied first, followed by -1 from Unseen Seer level 3 special ability)? Thanks!
Cainin 02-23-07, 02:55 PM	As a general rule, Practiced Spellcaster is always added last. Therfore it's in your favor under the previous situation you described. Yet applying it last isn't in favor of things like the Wild Mage prestige class.
Ventilatory_Threshold 02-23-07, 02:59 PM	Correction: You apply it when it is most beneficial.
Kadasbrass 02-23-07, 03:05 PM	The FAQ states that Practiced Spellcaster can never increase your caster level above hitdice no matter when or how it is added.
Ventilatory_Threshold 02-23-07, 03:19 PM	The FAQ states that Practiced Spellcaster can never increase your caster level above hitdice no matter when or how it is added. The FAQ also states the following: Does the bonus to caster level from the Practiced Spellcaster feat (from Complete Arcane and Complete Divine) apply before or after other caster level bonuses (such as those from the Good or Healing domains)? The bonus from Practiced Spellcaster applies whenever it would be most beneficial to the caster. A 4th-level cleric/4thlevel fighter with the Healing domain and Practiced Spellcaster would cast Conjuration (Healing) spells as a 9th-level caster (base caster level 4th, +4 from Practiced Spellcaster, +1 from the Healing domain). A 4th-level cleric/4th-level rogue with Practiced Spellcaster who activates a bead of karma (from a strand of prayer beads) would cast her spells as a 12th-level caster (base 4, +4 from Practiced Spellcaster, +4 from bead of karma).
mustafathered 02-23-07, 03:36 PM	Fast replies - thanks! I'll sit down and discuss how my DM wants to interpret the FAQ before deciding whether to take Unseen Seer to 3rd or higher level. But it is good to know that I was on the right track thinking that in the given example the caster level would be 9, equal to the character level.
Kadasbrass 02-23-07, 03:48 PM	Great, I at least thought the FAQ information was at least consistent in this game. Maybe all D&D books need a label stating "Consult your DM before using our products"
mustafathered 02-23-07, 09:10 PM	That could lead to a really nasty instance of Gary's Recursion - after all, in order to be a DM the products must already be in use, right? :) BTW, I'm printing the FAQ now to take with me to the game tomorrow. I will discuss the matter either after or before the game so as not to slow things down. Also, whatever he decides for his campaign I'll be fine with (obviously) but will mention that I think I am in agreement with Wizards' intent (the DM goes to many official sanctioned cons) just so that he is aware. We're starting the campaign tomorrow at first level, but I like to at least have a character plan that I can then deviate from due to roleplay as I get to know the character. I also like to clear up any possible confusions well ahead of time whenever possible - everyone is generally happier that way. Thanks again!
allenchan 02-23-07, 09:15 PM	Great, I at least thought the FAQ information was at least consistent in this game. Maybe all D&D books need a label stating "Consult your DM before using our products" There's nothing inconsistent with the FAQ. You always apply things in the most beneficial order. The Practiced Spellcaster is not increase the CL beyond your HD, thats the Healing domain doing that.
Kadasbrass 02-24-07, 02:53 AM	Practiced Spellcaster appears twice in the FAQ. The second question, involving a wild mage, paints a picture where the caster level can never go above hitdice no matter how you factor it in.
Ventilatory_Threshold 02-24-07, 11:35 AM	Practiced Spellcaster appears twice in the FAQ. The second question, involving a wild mage, paints a picture where the caster level can never go above hitdice no matter how you factor it in. Yup. As a DM, I wouldn't make the feat go wasted, so personally I'd rule it to always apply when most beneficial.