Ur Priest Question - Granted Power? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ur Priest Question - Granted Power? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
sijigs
07-02-07, 08:41 PM Excerpt from Complete Divine, Ur Priest entry pg 70:

Special: The character must have no ability to cast divine spells. If such spellcasting ability was previously possessed (as with an ex-cleric), that ability is forever forsaken.

What about your Granted Powers? Do you also forsake that? Please help!:confused:
Aage
07-02-07, 08:51 PM It says in the spell section that they do not have domain spells or associated granted powers, but it really doesn't say anything about domains that you had before entering. I'd say that you lose the granted powers, because they are granted by your deity. RAW on the other hand doesn't say you lose them, so that would mean you keep them?
sijigs
07-02-07, 08:56 PM RAW on the other hand doesn't say you lose them, so that would mean you keep them?

That's what I'm currently debating with my esteemed colleague with at the moment. ;)

I think keep it - but I'm only following RAW (and it makes my PC even better.. LOL)
Jaxgaret
07-02-07, 10:27 PM If you go by RAW, then the Ur-Priest can't cast any divine spells, including those from its Ur-Priest progression.

REQUIREMENTS

Special: The character must have no ability to cast divine spells.

If the Ur-Priest can cast divine spells (even if they're from the Ur-Priest levels themselves), it loses this requirement, and thus loses all Ur-Priest class features, including spellcasting.

Just a little reminder that RAW isn't always right.

Go with what makes sense to your gaming group, form a consensus, have fun, and stop trying to twist the rules for your own benefit.
sijigs
07-02-07, 10:51 PM Go with what makes sense to your gaming group, form a consensus, have fun, and stop trying to twist the rules for your own benefit.

Uhm.. that's why I posted this question otherwise I would've just twisted the rule for my own benefit. Hehe. C'mon man, lighten up. ;)

Just wanted to see if anyone else has/had issues on this matter and their thoughts.

Anyways, we've decided that you forsake granted powers and used the ex-cleric ruling as a guideline.
Jaxgaret
07-02-07, 11:01 PM I can actually see it going either way. Clerics lose more than pretty much any other class when they multiclass into Ur-Priest; leaving them granted powers shouldn't really be a problem.

If a cleric is not devoted to a particular deity, he still selects two domains to represent his spiritual inclinations and abilities.

It can easily be explained as the granted powers no longer coming from the gods themselves, but from the Ur-Priest's own convictions.

I think keep it - but I'm only following RAW (and it makes my PC even better.. LOL)

Uhm.. that's why I posted this question otherwise I would've just twisted the rule for my own benefit. Hehe. C'mon man, lighten up. ;)

My issue was with the former post. It made you seem disingenuous.

My apologies if that is not so.
Cade_Shadowfox
07-02-07, 11:06 PM If you go by RAW, then the Ur-Priest can't cast any divine spells, including those from its Ur-Priest progression.

If the Ur-Priest can cast divine spells (even if they're from the Ur-Priest levels themselves), it loses this requirement, and thus loses all Ur-Priest class features, including spellcasting.

=/ I haven't personally read the Ur priest, but those seem to be requirements for 1st level in the class. What happens after first level shouldn't matter, unless it explicitly states so in the class description, hrm?
Jaxgaret
07-02-07, 11:12 PM =/ I haven't personally read the Ur priest, but those seem to be requirements for 1st level in the class. What happens after first level shouldn't matter, unless it explicitly states so in the class description, hrm?

If you don't meet one or more of the Requirements for a class, you lose all of its class features.

You'll find this ruling in Complete Warrior, for instance.
sijigs
07-03-07, 01:06 AM My issue was with the former post. It made you seem disingenuous.

My apologies if that is not so.

No problem - my bad for being flippant about it anyways, but I digress.

We've just agreed that the whole point of it is based on someone forsaking or hating gods so when you become an Ur Priest and have a Cleric class, you violate the god/belief's code of conduct (whatever that may be). Thus resulting on the ex-cleric status and losing benefits.

The next $64,000 question is: what happens when you are an Ur Priest and take a PrC that gains a domain? :D

I vote nay..
Aage
07-03-07, 01:11 AM The next $64,000 question is: what happens when you are an Ur Priest and take a PrC that gains a domain? :D

I'd say yes (that is, you get the domain), unless the PrC specifically requires a god... So, for example an Ur-Priest/Warpriest gets the bonus domain, while a Ur-Priest/Sovereign Host does not (and really, that combination would and should be impossible :D)
sijigs
07-03-07, 05:50 PM Aage, I think you're going toward the right direction.

Sounds logical but I think the concept of the Ur Priest is violating gods/beliefs therefore if you enter a PrC that gains domains/granted powers. The higher muckamuck would say... "naaaa!"

Other abilities, yeah.. eg Scrying, resistances etc... but not domains and granted powers.
LordKhaos
07-03-07, 05:52 PM I'd say yes (that is, you get the domain), unless the PrC specifically requires a god... So, for example an Ur-Priest/Warpriest gets the bonus domain, while a Ur-Priest/Sovereign Host does not (and really, that combination would and should be impossible :D)

Agreed. You would still get the bonus domains from other PrC's unless the combination strictly forbade it (as in the example used by Aage).
Genetic
07-05-07, 01:02 AM To be honest, you'd think that the ur-priest would at least be able to cast all domain spells since he steals power from gods. Of course, that'd be hideously overpowered given their quickened spellcasting progression. But it makes sense from a flavor standpoint...
sijigs
07-05-07, 02:20 AM Genetic, yeap you have a point. Let's just open it all up! LOL...

I'm paraphrasing bits from my discussions with my friend...

My argument was: an Ur Priest can’t be devout. And domains signify devotion to me.

Maybe as a DM you can justify that the higher authority might notice as this may be classified as "too much" stealing. And remember UP's are supposed to just steal bits and pieces - or get slapped for it.

Maybe have the +1 CL.. but definitely no domain/granted power, I think.

Guess it's a DMs call if he wants me to unleash hell on his campaign.. hehe. Kidding.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sijigs 07-02-07, 08:41 PM	Excerpt from Complete Divine, Ur Priest entry pg 70: Special: The character must have no ability to cast divine spells. If such spellcasting ability was previously possessed (as with an ex-cleric), that ability is forever forsaken. What about your Granted Powers? Do you also forsake that? Please help!:confused:
Aage 07-02-07, 08:51 PM	It says in the spell section that they do not have domain spells or associated granted powers, but it really doesn't say anything about domains that you had before entering. I'd say that you lose the granted powers, because they are granted by your deity. RAW on the other hand doesn't say you lose them, so that would mean you keep them?
sijigs 07-02-07, 08:56 PM	RAW on the other hand doesn't say you lose them, so that would mean you keep them? That's what I'm currently debating with my esteemed colleague with at the moment. ;) I think keep it - but I'm only following RAW (and it makes my PC even better.. LOL)
Jaxgaret 07-02-07, 10:27 PM	If you go by RAW, then the Ur-Priest can't cast any divine spells, including those from its Ur-Priest progression. REQUIREMENTS Special: The character must have no ability to cast divine spells. If the Ur-Priest can cast divine spells (even if they're from the Ur-Priest levels themselves), it loses this requirement, and thus loses all Ur-Priest class features, including spellcasting. Just a little reminder that RAW isn't always right. Go with what makes sense to your gaming group, form a consensus, have fun, and stop trying to twist the rules for your own benefit.
sijigs 07-02-07, 10:51 PM	Go with what makes sense to your gaming group, form a consensus, have fun, and stop trying to twist the rules for your own benefit. Uhm.. that's why I posted this question otherwise I would've just twisted the rule for my own benefit. Hehe. C'mon man, lighten up. ;) Just wanted to see if anyone else has/had issues on this matter and their thoughts. Anyways, we've decided that you forsake granted powers and used the ex-cleric ruling as a guideline.
Jaxgaret 07-02-07, 11:01 PM	I can actually see it going either way. Clerics lose more than pretty much any other class when they multiclass into Ur-Priest; leaving them granted powers shouldn't really be a problem. If a cleric is not devoted to a particular deity, he still selects two domains to represent his spiritual inclinations and abilities. It can easily be explained as the granted powers no longer coming from the gods themselves, but from the Ur-Priest's own convictions. I think keep it - but I'm only following RAW (and it makes my PC even better.. LOL) Uhm.. that's why I posted this question otherwise I would've just twisted the rule for my own benefit. Hehe. C'mon man, lighten up. ;) My issue was with the former post. It made you seem disingenuous. My apologies if that is not so.
Cade_Shadowfox 07-02-07, 11:06 PM	If you go by RAW, then the Ur-Priest can't cast any divine spells, including those from its Ur-Priest progression. If the Ur-Priest can cast divine spells (even if they're from the Ur-Priest levels themselves), it loses this requirement, and thus loses all Ur-Priest class features, including spellcasting. =/ I haven't personally read the Ur priest, but those seem to be requirements for 1st level in the class. What happens after first level shouldn't matter, unless it explicitly states so in the class description, hrm?
Jaxgaret 07-02-07, 11:12 PM	=/ I haven't personally read the Ur priest, but those seem to be requirements for 1st level in the class. What happens after first level shouldn't matter, unless it explicitly states so in the class description, hrm? If you don't meet one or more of the Requirements for a class, you lose all of its class features. You'll find this ruling in Complete Warrior, for instance.
sijigs 07-03-07, 01:06 AM	My issue was with the former post. It made you seem disingenuous. My apologies if that is not so. No problem - my bad for being flippant about it anyways, but I digress. We've just agreed that the whole point of it is based on someone forsaking or hating gods so when you become an Ur Priest and have a Cleric class, you violate the god/belief's code of conduct (whatever that may be). Thus resulting on the ex-cleric status and losing benefits. The next $64,000 question is: what happens when you are an Ur Priest and take a PrC that gains a domain? :D I vote nay..
Aage 07-03-07, 01:11 AM	The next $64,000 question is: what happens when you are an Ur Priest and take a PrC that gains a domain? :D I'd say yes (that is, you get the domain), unless the PrC specifically requires a god... So, for example an Ur-Priest/Warpriest gets the bonus domain, while a Ur-Priest/Sovereign Host does not (and really, that combination would and should be impossible :D)
sijigs 07-03-07, 05:50 PM	Aage, I think you're going toward the right direction. Sounds logical but I think the concept of the Ur Priest is violating gods/beliefs therefore if you enter a PrC that gains domains/granted powers. The higher muckamuck would say... "naaaa!" Other abilities, yeah.. eg Scrying, resistances etc... but not domains and granted powers.
LordKhaos 07-03-07, 05:52 PM	I'd say yes (that is, you get the domain), unless the PrC specifically requires a god... So, for example an Ur-Priest/Warpriest gets the bonus domain, while a Ur-Priest/Sovereign Host does not (and really, that combination would and should be impossible :D) Agreed. You would still get the bonus domains from other PrC's unless the combination strictly forbade it (as in the example used by Aage).
Genetic 07-05-07, 01:02 AM	To be honest, you'd think that the ur-priest would at least be able to cast all domain spells since he steals power from gods. Of course, that'd be hideously overpowered given their quickened spellcasting progression. But it makes sense from a flavor standpoint...
sijigs 07-05-07, 02:20 AM	Genetic, yeap you have a point. Let's just open it all up! LOL... I'm paraphrasing bits from my discussions with my friend... My argument was: an Ur Priest can’t be devout. And domains signify devotion to me. Maybe as a DM you can justify that the higher authority might notice as this may be classified as "too much" stealing. And remember UP's are supposed to just steal bits and pieces - or get slapped for it. Maybe have the +1 CL.. but definitely no domain/granted power, I think. Guess it's a DMs call if he wants me to unleash hell on his campaign.. hehe. Kidding.