warshaper 5th level [Archive] - Wizards Community

warshaper 5th level [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zillah
04-02-08, 10:47 PM multimorph/flashmorph. i love this ability. the question is, is it worth taking 5 levels into this PrC if it doesn't stack with your wildshape levels.
i mean, the ability to use 1 wildshape for all those hours and be able to switch to whatever you want is pretty sexy IMO. makes you very versatile as a shaper. any thoughts?
I have read in some places on these boards that only the first 4 levels of warshaper is worth it. is the 5th level ability not worth it to you? why or why not.
nightwyrm
04-02-08, 10:55 PM umm..no...you're giving up 5 levels of spellcasting and wildshape advancement for a really minor ability. If you really want to play a wildshape focused druid, you should take a look at Master of Many Forms.
Zillah
04-02-08, 11:01 PM i have played a MoMF with warshaper in added with it. I don't think its a minor ability at all. I think its a major one. Why would it be minor?
dman11235
04-02-08, 11:17 PM It's a really nice ability for druids to have. Not worth the loss of 5 spell levels. You know, Shapechange lets you do just that, but better...

And for a wildshape druid, 5 levels is a lovely addition, not just for that but for the other abilities too: immune to crits, +4 str and con, reach, fast healing, the works.

And only the first 4 are worth it for some builds. My monk/barbarian monstrosity only benefits from 4 levels. A doppleganger/changeling only benefits from 4. Most any creature with the shapechanger subtype only benefits from 4. Cause they can change at will. And the flashmorph isn't worth it (loss of BAB and opportunity cost). Who cares if it's a swift action, you only change once in battle anyways and can't make use of a full attack typically on your first round. Or, you have a form that lasts indefinitely, and it doesn't matter cause you're always in that form (it's cheese btw, you have fast healing and +4 con and all the natural attacks you want). Or it's already a free action (my monk/barbarian/bear warrior).
Tordak
04-04-08, 11:12 AM i have played a MoMF with warshaper in added with it. I don't think its a minor ability at all. I think its a major one. Why would it be minor?

If you play a master of many form, then yes, it is the way to go. Altough it limits the HD you can assume, the MoMF will take all it's meaning with multimorph. The other ability are also quite strong.

If you're more about the whole druid thing then just the wildshaping, but want to boost wildshaping a bit, Nature's Warrior is quite good. It provides some boons, stack with wild shape and you still get some spellcasting levels. In that case, I don't think the wildshaper would be worth it. Multimorph is minor if you don't relly so much on your wildshaping. Flashmorph is not great either.

You could perhaps convince your DM to invent a feat called something like 'Practiced Shapechanger' that would work like practiced spellcaster but allow you to add +4 to the max HD of the creatures you can morph into, without giving you additional benefit (like new type of shape and the like), up to your current level/HD.
dman11235
04-04-08, 04:28 PM 15 HD is enough for most good monsters @20. But be sure to advance your wildshape at epic to accomidate more powerful monsters.
Cartigan
04-04-08, 08:43 PM You could perhaps convince your DM to invent a feat called something like 'Practiced Shapechanger' that would work like practiced spellcaster but allow you to add +4 to the max HD of the creatures you can morph into, without giving you additional benefit (like new type of shape and the like), up to your current level/HD.
That would be like Practiced Spellcaster not only treating you as 3 levels higher for spellcasting but also giving you the spells you are missing. The power of spells isn't so much in the spellcasting level as the level of spell you can cast. The entire power of wildshaping is in the HD limit.
teshen
04-06-08, 02:07 AM That would be like Practiced Spellcaster not only treating you as 3 levels higher for spellcasting but also giving you the spells you are missing. The power of spells isn't so much in the spellcasting level as the level of spell you can cast. The entire power of wildshaping is in the HD limit.I'll agree with most of this. Granted, part of druid and MoMF is getting larger/smaller sizes and different types, but a lot of types just aren't useful as others. (I mean, other than some of the nifty movement modes elementals have, how useful are they really?)

And practiced spellcaster is +4 up to you hit dice/level.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zillah 04-02-08, 10:47 PM	multimorph/flashmorph. i love this ability. the question is, is it worth taking 5 levels into this PrC if it doesn't stack with your wildshape levels. i mean, the ability to use 1 wildshape for all those hours and be able to switch to whatever you want is pretty sexy IMO. makes you very versatile as a shaper. any thoughts? I have read in some places on these boards that only the first 4 levels of warshaper is worth it. is the 5th level ability not worth it to you? why or why not.
nightwyrm 04-02-08, 10:55 PM	umm..no...you're giving up 5 levels of spellcasting and wildshape advancement for a really minor ability. If you really want to play a wildshape focused druid, you should take a look at Master of Many Forms.
Zillah 04-02-08, 11:01 PM	i have played a MoMF with warshaper in added with it. I don't think its a minor ability at all. I think its a major one. Why would it be minor?
dman11235 04-02-08, 11:17 PM	It's a really nice ability for druids to have. Not worth the loss of 5 spell levels. You know, Shapechange lets you do just that, but better... And for a wildshape druid, 5 levels is a lovely addition, not just for that but for the other abilities too: immune to crits, +4 str and con, reach, fast healing, the works. And only the first 4 are worth it for some builds. My monk/barbarian monstrosity only benefits from 4 levels. A doppleganger/changeling only benefits from 4. Most any creature with the shapechanger subtype only benefits from 4. Cause they can change at will. And the flashmorph isn't worth it (loss of BAB and opportunity cost). Who cares if it's a swift action, you only change once in battle anyways and can't make use of a full attack typically on your first round. Or, you have a form that lasts indefinitely, and it doesn't matter cause you're always in that form (it's cheese btw, you have fast healing and +4 con and all the natural attacks you want). Or it's already a free action (my monk/barbarian/bear warrior).
Tordak 04-04-08, 11:12 AM	i have played a MoMF with warshaper in added with it. I don't think its a minor ability at all. I think its a major one. Why would it be minor? If you play a master of many form, then yes, it is the way to go. Altough it limits the HD you can assume, the MoMF will take all it's meaning with multimorph. The other ability are also quite strong. If you're more about the whole druid thing then just the wildshaping, but want to boost wildshaping a bit, Nature's Warrior is quite good. It provides some boons, stack with wild shape and you still get some spellcasting levels. In that case, I don't think the wildshaper would be worth it. Multimorph is minor if you don't relly so much on your wildshaping. Flashmorph is not great either. You could perhaps convince your DM to invent a feat called something like 'Practiced Shapechanger' that would work like practiced spellcaster but allow you to add +4 to the max HD of the creatures you can morph into, without giving you additional benefit (like new type of shape and the like), up to your current level/HD.
dman11235 04-04-08, 04:28 PM	15 HD is enough for most good monsters @20. But be sure to advance your wildshape at epic to accomidate more powerful monsters.
Cartigan 04-04-08, 08:43 PM	You could perhaps convince your DM to invent a feat called something like 'Practiced Shapechanger' that would work like practiced spellcaster but allow you to add +4 to the max HD of the creatures you can morph into, without giving you additional benefit (like new type of shape and the like), up to your current level/HD. That would be like Practiced Spellcaster not only treating you as 3 levels higher for spellcasting but also giving you the spells you are missing. The power of spells isn't so much in the spellcasting level as the level of spell you can cast. The entire power of wildshaping is in the HD limit.
teshen 04-06-08, 02:07 AM	That would be like Practiced Spellcaster not only treating you as 3 levels higher for spellcasting but also giving you the spells you are missing. The power of spells isn't so much in the spellcasting level as the level of spell you can cast. The entire power of wildshaping is in the HD limit.I'll agree with most of this. Granted, part of druid and MoMF is getting larger/smaller sizes and different types, but a lot of types just aren't useful as others. (I mean, other than some of the nifty movement modes elementals have, how useful are they really?) And practiced spellcaster is +4 up to you hit dice/level.