Post/Author/DateTime	Post
elstyskel 04-16-08, 10:24 PM	One of my PCs is wanting to go into the VoB prestige class, but we can't determine exactly how far to take the meaning of "single handedly" beating a red dragon. Now I'm not so literal to take it as saying the PC is limited to single handed weapons, but I can't determine how much support from other PCs during the fight is appropriate. Does anyone have any idea how that should be taken? EDIT: The dictionary(.com) says "single handed" means: 1. accomplished or done by one person alone: a single-handed victory; single-handed sailing. 2. by one's own effort; unaided. But what counts as aid in the situation? Does the no aid part begin when the battle starts, or does it count assistance before the start of the fight?
Dragoloth 04-16-08, 10:50 PM	All by yourself. Only the Vassel to be can be involved in the combat, no outside help.
Malek2991 04-16-08, 10:58 PM	It simply means that the Vassal must fight by his/herself. Other chars can't assist in any direct way. i.e a party member can't cast protective/support spells on the vassal. The vassal can use magic items (including those made by his/her fellow party members).
Drackthor 04-16-08, 11:02 PM	Different interpretations are possible, really, depends on how amazing members of this PrC really are. -Party members may participate in the fight, but the Vassal-to-be(V-t-b) must strike the killing blow. -Party members can only do up to Half the Dragon's total HP in damage, the other half must be done by the V-t-b. -Party Members May Buff and Heal the V-t-b before and during the fight, but may not do damage. -Party Members May Buff the V-t-b but cannot heal him or do damage to the Dragon. -Party Members cannot aid the V-t-b in any way.
firefenix 04-16-08, 11:47 PM	One thing to consider is that it is a 10 level prestige class so if your PC wants to take all 10 levels they should be given an opportunity to take all 10 levels. You shouldn't hand it to them but make it so they have a fair chance. A reasonable interpretation would be to say that the PC can't have any assistance during combat but preparation outside of battle within reason should be allowed. Another option is to allow the PC to enter the prestige without fulfilling that specific requirement but they are unable to make the armor until they accomplish that task. The most important thing to remember is that this is a game. Don't let the PC's have free reign but make it fun and enjoyable for them. If you don't want them to do something then give them a viable reason. The game is also part skill and part luck, so if you feel they did a good job acknowledge it game with some DM grace or another chance.
elstyskel 04-17-08, 09:18 AM	Ok, perhaps I didn't give enough detail in the first post (which I'll edit after this). The PC who wants to enter this class will not be able to for several months at least in real world time, as he is no where near the requirements. Together we're discussing the requirements, and we can't decide on what "by yourself" means. We can see many different ways of interpreting it (many of which have already been mentioned) but we can't figure out which way to take it, as he'll be preparing for the attempt based on what we figure out. As I said, I know that "single handedly" doesn't mean using only one hand, but past that we can't figure out how much assistance he is allowed to have. Is it single handed if he's the one to land the killing blow? Is it single handed if he's been magically protected/buffed by other players? The dictionary(.com) says "single handed" means: 1. accomplished or done by one person alone: a single-handed victory; single-handed sailing. 2. by one's own effort; unaided. But what counts as aid in the situation? Does the no aid part begin when the battle starts, or does it count assistance before the start of the fight?
Cartigan 04-17-08, 12:47 PM	Together we're discussing the requirements, and we can't decide on what "by yourself" means. Uh, what? "By yourself," "single-handed," without other people. Pre-battle preparation does not mean you are not fighting single-handedly or not by yourself. Saying you can't prepare before battle with the help of other people, means you are probably going to go in naked. Some one had to make your items(especially magic stuff). In real life, some one would have had to help you put on your full plate armor. Is it single handed if he's the one to land the killing blow? No. There is help. It isn't single handed. Is it single handed if he's been magically protected/buffed by other players? Are they involved during the fight? If they are, he isn't really fighting single-handedly.
Damned slayer 04-17-08, 01:09 PM	I'd say he cannot be buffed FOR that fight but if he was buffed for a dungeon and they are still in place it's fine I'd make him challenge the dragon so nobody can interfere without breaking the challenge, and the dragon would certainly not let your party members buff you right before BTW from what I've read a typical challenge includes rule that are usually no magic and no breath