What to do with an Eldritch Knight (core only)? [Archive] - Wizards Community

What to do with an Eldritch Knight (core only)? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
bob_the_great
03-22-07, 08:11 PM Can you make a good Eldritch Knight in a core-only game? I keep seeing suggestions like wraithstrike and arcane strike and these are options I wouldn't have.

more simply what do you do with an eldritch knight? are you basically a caster at -2 caster levels with some extra tricks? are you a meleer with spells backing you up?

your hps will always be low so I assume you either need to avoid melee or prevent yourself from being hit. for AC, do you find a way to eliminate spell failure in light armor? do you just still spell everything and wear heavy armor? do you simply use mage armor or bracers of armor?

now as for damage are you mostly using spells? are you meleeing? do you cast true strike from a distance and then power attack for full on a charge?

how about abilities? would int be #1 and str #2? i assume con would be essential. dex should be good for ac, initiative, and dexterity's overall usefulness. do you take weapon finesse and take care of hitting in melee that way? do you not need a big strength score because magic can make up for lower 'to-hit' and damage?

I'm really considering making one, though I have no idea what to do with it. Any advice/answers would be a great help.
StevenO
03-23-07, 12:26 AM If you are using only the Core books it is the only real way to build a Fighter/Mage. Yes, you lose a couple caster levels and your BAB and HP aren't as good as a full warrior but it is basically the only way to build such a character.

There are still many ways to play a core only EK and how you play depends on your style and how you meet the prereqs. One thing to note is that if you use spells without an "S" in the component line you can freely use them even in full plate without a risk of spell failure from ASF. How you actually build the character is up to you but in core only I'd seriously consider the Barbarian to fill the All Martial Weapons requirement.
Dyne
03-23-07, 01:14 AM Invest in the Still Spell feat and a good suit of armor, and you'll be good to go. Might wanna get a few magic items to boost your Con and your AC so you stay around a bit longer.

You won't be very great at low levels, but you will be quite effective at high levels. IMO, EK was the best "gish" PrC around before Abjurant Champion reared its ugly head. Heck, it's probably the best core PrC as well. It's very easy to make an effective fighter/mage using core only; in fact, core only fighter/mages are usually better than ones created using the other books, since a lot of people don't fully realize how craptastic the other "gish" PrC's are, such as Spell Blade and Rage Mage (again, excluding Abjurant Champion).
ahiman
03-23-07, 02:26 AM I might help because I played one (well a few levels of it). I went in the no armour direction because I had really good rolls. The abilities that I used where int, con, dex and str in that order from highest to lowest. You will never be the "tank" but you can do many things that a fighter can not.

1) move fast, you can master the battle field well with some grease spells and movement modifires this will get you where you want fast with out having to deal with to many unnesisary. 2) If you do go the no armour way then cast mage armour and shield, infact get a wand of shield with a dex of 14 and those two your AC is 20 and that is good for anyone at level 1 or 2. Later you will have some issues with AC but magic items and what not should go into AC boosters if you can. 3) learn your spells well, so that you always have something that can make you good in a fight. It doesn't always have to be damaging spells (look at scorching ray though)but something that you think can help you in a fight.

If you are a wizard then most of your damage will come from melee. That is because you cannot cast that many hurting spell but you should have those too because hurting people from range if they cannot fight at range is always the best. If you are a sorcerer then you can drop 3 fire balls on the group of trolls before going in, and that is good. In either case just try not to die. If you are hurt too much get out, let some one else get in there for a while. In any case you should not be the main fighter (maybe in a group with many auxiliary fighters, say a bard, a cleric and you).

Hope that helps and sorry for the bad spelling.
stsword
03-29-07, 03:40 AM Invest in the Still Spell feat and a good suit of armor, and you'll be good to go. Might wanna get a few magic items to boost your Con and your AC so you stay around a bit longer.

You won't be very great at low levels, but you will be quite effective at high levels. IMO, EK was the best "gish" PrC around before Abjurant Champion reared its ugly head. Heck, it's probably the best core PrC as well. It's very easy to make an effective fighter/mage using core only; in fact, core only fighter/mages are usually better than ones created using the other books, since a lot of people don't fully realize how craptastic the other "gish" PrC's are, such as Spell Blade and Rage Mage (again, excluding Abjurant Champion).

Eldritch Knight was the best gish prc before abjurant champion? Uhm, you are aware that all the other gish prcs have casting, full ab, and class features right?

Jade Pheonix Mage: maneuvers

Grey Hand Enforcer: damage resistance, spell resistance, and basically a smite attack

Knight Phantom: casting in light armor and brilliant energy weapons
SlanderPanic
03-29-07, 10:51 AM The other suggestions above are dandy (especially Still Spell), but I'd like to suggest playing a ranged specialist.

Playing a Small race (halfling or gnome) will be to your advantage here. High Intelligence and high Dex are your two best friends.
Max out Concentration, Spot, and Listen.

Stay lightly-armored or unarmored. Take the following feats:
*Weapon Focus (ranged spells)
*Point-Blank Shot
*Precise Shot
*Improved Critical (ranged spells)
*Quick Draw, Dodge, Improved Initiative, and Combat Casting are all useful feats to have, if you have the slots.

Barbarian's a good suggestion for starting out. A few extra hit points, skill points, and fast movement are all good things for an eldritch knight to have and you're probably not going to be wearing anything heavier than light armor anyway. It certainly doesn't hurt to be able to rage when someone gets a little too up close and personal, but be careful there. Fighter, paladin, and ranger all bring interesting options to the eldritch knight, too.

You'll probably want to make your first level in whatever martial class you're going for to get those extra hit points at first level. In the end, though, you need to let the character's background decide.

For equipment, you can't go wrong with mithral armor and shield, if you can afford them. An animated shield is very, very nice, since it'll let you hold a weapon in one hand and cast spells with the other. Make sure you spend the extra money on armor and shield spikes because they'll make grappling you a far less-attractive option than otherwise. Stock up on wands and potions.

A ranged weapon is going to be your primary, but will likely come in second to your ranged spells in actual combat. It doesn't hurt to have a nice, hefty melee weapon, too. I'd go for longsword (bastard sword or greatsword if I have an animated shield,) morningstar, club or shortspear, and as many daggers as I can carry. Clubs, daggers, and shortspears can all be thrown, so you can take advantage of your ranged combat feats with them. A rod of lordly might would be fantastic to have, but they're rare as can be.

Focus on ranged attack spells, battlefield control spells, and buffs. As mentioned above, you can use wands and other cheap spell-storage devices to free up your spell slots, especially if you're making heavy use of Still Spell for your offensive spells.

After you finish out Eldritch Knight, if you meet the prerequisites, you might enjoy a few levels of Arcane Archer. Otherwise, your continued progression depends on what you want to do, what's been working best for you. If you want to concentrate on improving your ranged effectiveness, go for more levels in your martial base class (or fighter levels if you don't already have them.) If you want to improve your spellcasting, go for more levels in your base spellcasting class. Or you could split the remaining levels between the two so that, at level 20, your character looks something like this:
Fighter 3/wizard 7/eldritch knight 10.

Hope this helps.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bob_the_great 03-22-07, 08:11 PM	Can you make a good Eldritch Knight in a core-only game? I keep seeing suggestions like wraithstrike and arcane strike and these are options I wouldn't have. more simply what do you do with an eldritch knight? are you basically a caster at -2 caster levels with some extra tricks? are you a meleer with spells backing you up? your hps will always be low so I assume you either need to avoid melee or prevent yourself from being hit. for AC, do you find a way to eliminate spell failure in light armor? do you just still spell everything and wear heavy armor? do you simply use mage armor or bracers of armor? now as for damage are you mostly using spells? are you meleeing? do you cast true strike from a distance and then power attack for full on a charge? how about abilities? would int be #1 and str #2? i assume con would be essential. dex should be good for ac, initiative, and dexterity's overall usefulness. do you take weapon finesse and take care of hitting in melee that way? do you not need a big strength score because magic can make up for lower 'to-hit' and damage? I'm really considering making one, though I have no idea what to do with it. Any advice/answers would be a great help.
StevenO 03-23-07, 12:26 AM	If you are using only the Core books it is the only real way to build a Fighter/Mage. Yes, you lose a couple caster levels and your BAB and HP aren't as good as a full warrior but it is basically the only way to build such a character. There are still many ways to play a core only EK and how you play depends on your style and how you meet the prereqs. One thing to note is that if you use spells without an "S" in the component line you can freely use them even in full plate without a risk of spell failure from ASF. How you actually build the character is up to you but in core only I'd seriously consider the Barbarian to fill the All Martial Weapons requirement.
Dyne 03-23-07, 01:14 AM	Invest in the Still Spell feat and a good suit of armor, and you'll be good to go. Might wanna get a few magic items to boost your Con and your AC so you stay around a bit longer. You won't be very great at low levels, but you will be quite effective at high levels. IMO, EK was the best "gish" PrC around before Abjurant Champion reared its ugly head. Heck, it's probably the best core PrC as well. It's very easy to make an effective fighter/mage using core only; in fact, core only fighter/mages are usually better than ones created using the other books, since a lot of people don't fully realize how craptastic the other "gish" PrC's are, such as Spell Blade and Rage Mage (again, excluding Abjurant Champion).
ahiman 03-23-07, 02:26 AM	I might help because I played one (well a few levels of it). I went in the no armour direction because I had really good rolls. The abilities that I used where int, con, dex and str in that order from highest to lowest. You will never be the "tank" but you can do many things that a fighter can not. 1) move fast, you can master the battle field well with some grease spells and movement modifires this will get you where you want fast with out having to deal with to many unnesisary. 2) If you do go the no armour way then cast mage armour and shield, infact get a wand of shield with a dex of 14 and those two your AC is 20 and that is good for anyone at level 1 or 2. Later you will have some issues with AC but magic items and what not should go into AC boosters if you can. 3) learn your spells well, so that you always have something that can make you good in a fight. It doesn't always have to be damaging spells (look at scorching ray though)but something that you think can help you in a fight. If you are a wizard then most of your damage will come from melee. That is because you cannot cast that many hurting spell but you should have those too because hurting people from range if they cannot fight at range is always the best. If you are a sorcerer then you can drop 3 fire balls on the group of trolls before going in, and that is good. In either case just try not to die. If you are hurt too much get out, let some one else get in there for a while. In any case you should not be the main fighter (maybe in a group with many auxiliary fighters, say a bard, a cleric and you). Hope that helps and sorry for the bad spelling.
stsword 03-29-07, 03:40 AM	Invest in the Still Spell feat and a good suit of armor, and you'll be good to go. Might wanna get a few magic items to boost your Con and your AC so you stay around a bit longer. You won't be very great at low levels, but you will be quite effective at high levels. IMO, EK was the best "gish" PrC around before Abjurant Champion reared its ugly head. Heck, it's probably the best core PrC as well. It's very easy to make an effective fighter/mage using core only; in fact, core only fighter/mages are usually better than ones created using the other books, since a lot of people don't fully realize how craptastic the other "gish" PrC's are, such as Spell Blade and Rage Mage (again, excluding Abjurant Champion). Eldritch Knight was the best gish prc before abjurant champion? Uhm, you are aware that all the other gish prcs have casting, full ab, and class features right? Jade Pheonix Mage: maneuvers Grey Hand Enforcer: damage resistance, spell resistance, and basically a smite attack Knight Phantom: casting in light armor and brilliant energy weapons
SlanderPanic 03-29-07, 10:51 AM	The other suggestions above are dandy (especially Still Spell), but I'd like to suggest playing a ranged specialist. Playing a Small race (halfling or gnome) will be to your advantage here. High Intelligence and high Dex are your two best friends. Max out Concentration, Spot, and Listen. Stay lightly-armored or unarmored. Take the following feats: Weapon Focus (ranged spells) Point-Blank Shot Precise Shot Improved Critical (ranged spells) *Quick Draw, Dodge, Improved Initiative, and Combat Casting are all useful feats to have, if you have the slots. Barbarian's a good suggestion for starting out. A few extra hit points, skill points, and fast movement are all good things for an eldritch knight to have and you're probably not going to be wearing anything heavier than light armor anyway. It certainly doesn't hurt to be able to rage when someone gets a little too up close and personal, but be careful there. Fighter, paladin, and ranger all bring interesting options to the eldritch knight, too. You'll probably want to make your first level in whatever martial class you're going for to get those extra hit points at first level. In the end, though, you need to let the character's background decide. For equipment, you can't go wrong with mithral armor and shield, if you can afford them. An animated shield is very, very nice, since it'll let you hold a weapon in one hand and cast spells with the other. Make sure you spend the extra money on armor and shield spikes because they'll make grappling you a far less-attractive option than otherwise. Stock up on wands and potions. A ranged weapon is going to be your primary, but will likely come in second to your ranged spells in actual combat. It doesn't hurt to have a nice, hefty melee weapon, too. I'd go for longsword (bastard sword or greatsword if I have an animated shield,) morningstar, club or shortspear, and as many daggers as I can carry. Clubs, daggers, and shortspears can all be thrown, so you can take advantage of your ranged combat feats with them. A rod of lordly might would be fantastic to have, but they're rare as can be. Focus on ranged attack spells, battlefield control spells, and buffs. As mentioned above, you can use wands and other cheap spell-storage devices to free up your spell slots, especially if you're making heavy use of Still Spell for your offensive spells. After you finish out Eldritch Knight, if you meet the prerequisites, you might enjoy a few levels of Arcane Archer. Otherwise, your continued progression depends on what you want to do, what's been working best for you. If you want to concentrate on improving your ranged effectiveness, go for more levels in your martial base class (or fighter levels if you don't already have them.) If you want to improve your spellcasting, go for more levels in your base spellcasting class. Or you could split the remaining levels between the two so that, at level 20, your character looks something like this: Fighter 3/wizard 7/eldritch knight 10. Hope this helps.