Post/Author/DateTime	Post
megrimguy 06-20-07, 11:32 PM	I currently have a 13th level Wizard and I don't exactly know what to do with him... I haven't prohibited any schools yet, as I want to keep my options open... I am thinking of dipping in Archmage... I guess I just want a powercaster of sorts, I am currently thinking of doing some kind of mellee but I only have 55 hitpoints at 13th level. What are some good combos that are popular? I can't really get away with anything too gamebreaking, and I have only the corebooks, and complete war/arc/adv/div to really work with. Thanks!
bobothechimp 06-20-07, 11:59 PM	At your level, going for anything melee-oriented is pointless. You won't get enough benefit from them to survive in close combat. Your best options are really any prestige class that gives full arcane spellcasting progression.
megrimguy 06-21-07, 12:02 AM	Is going straight Wizard a good option?
bobothechimp 06-21-07, 12:20 AM	It definitely is. The bonus feats are always useful.
Yareb 06-21-07, 12:57 AM	At your level, going for anything melee-oriented is pointless. You won't get enough benefit from them to survive in close combat. Your best options are really any prestige class that gives full arcane spellcasting progression. I second that opinion. I think that a dip into archmage would benefit greatly. The special abilities are awesome.
Krusk 06-21-07, 01:39 AM	Fate spinner is relativly easy to get into, and it pretty useful all around. -complete arcane- I generally go into it when i play a caster who is not a master specialist. If you are wanting melee, look at the shapechange type spells. They should help out a bit.
Kevin Andrew Murphy 06-21-07, 01:52 AM	Well, with seven ranks left, you could finish out as an Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil and fill out all of them. The entry price is a bit steep, however, but you might be able to work out some feat swapping with your DM. That has full caster progression and some fun abilities. If you just want some blastem abilities, I'd suggest taking two more wizard levels and choosing one of them cool blastem Reserve feats from Complete Mage for your 15th level wizard feat.
Draco Strang 06-21-07, 02:01 AM	It definitely is. The bonus feats are always useful. Pshhhh.....Anyone who wants an optimized build is wasting levels if they dip into straight wizard anything past 5, unless the DM is a core-only guy. What do you get by sticking to wizard 20? Familiar progression and 3 metamagic feats. :Yawn: There are TONS Of good arcane PrCs that give full caster progression, more skill points, bonus spells, and amazing class features with pretty much no drawback. Just off the top of my head, Initiate of the Sevenfold Viel, Geometer (5 level dip, spells on a single page, any glyph you cast is balls powerful), arcane trickster, Red Wizard of Thay, Mind Bender, Guild Mage, and a ton of others.
The_Shaman 06-21-07, 02:43 AM	I'm an incantatrix fan, and losing (further) access to 1 school should not be a problem at your level. I suppose you have a metamagic feat or two, so the only important prerequisite is Iron Will. You won't get the capstone ability soon, but you can get quite a few nice tricks with your spellcraft and a few more metamagic feats. What else... could you give us more info on your feats and spell preferences, or maybe something thematic we could work with? Edit: please, no mind bender, at least not after lvl 1. even at that point, 3 lost caster levels are a pain.
bobothechimp 06-21-07, 02:52 AM	Pshhhh.....Anyone who wants an optimized build... You can stop right there. He said "good", he did not say "optimized".
The_Shaman 06-21-07, 03:47 AM	S/he didn't say "merely moderately good," either :P With 13 levels of wizard, you have already devoted quite a bit of your time to simple builds, intentionally or not.
megrimguy 06-21-07, 12:40 PM	I started out with this guy at level 13, I reall didn't get to pick any of his stuff. So far my feats are: Imp Init. Empower Spell Maximize spell spell focus (Evocation) spell penetration greater spell penetration Eschew Materials I use a lot of blasting spells, I don't really know what else I should/could be doing (first time with wizard). Once I hit 15 I'll get another spell focus so I can get the archmage. Item creation is pretty much out of the question, no one in my group will wait 2 weeks just for me to create items.
madbliza 06-21-07, 12:44 PM	Well, with seven ranks left, you could finish out as an Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil and fill out all of them. The entry price is a bit steep, however, but you might be able to work out some feat swapping with your DM. That has full caster progression and some fun abilities. Hell yeah. I think that class is a Cleric's worst nightmare. I love that PrC.
Dnarris 06-21-07, 12:48 PM	I think it's always wise to PrC a wizard simply, because of how "blank" their progression is. You a a bonus metamagic feat every once in a while, but that's it. It's beneficial to take a PrC just to gain more abilities each level. Since you've already gone 13 levels of wizard...Archmage is always a viable option as long as your capable of getting the two spell focuses and the spellcraft focus for the prereq of Archmage.
Marcus Majarra 06-21-07, 12:48 PM	You seem to be short on at least one feat (not counting Scribe Scroll). A 13th-level wizard has 5 feats from his levels, plus two bonus feats from the wizard class (plus Scribe Scroll and maybe one other feat, if you're human). If you haven't picked it yet, I recommend looking into the requirements for Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil. It's a 7-level PrC, which should complement your 13 other levels well. The veils feature of the class allow you to be warded against creatures that attack you, letting you partake in the melee as you see fit (with plenty of retributive action).
runestar 06-21-07, 12:55 PM	Wizards live and die by their spellcasting, and less so from what nifty special abilities they get from the power 3 (incantatrix, initiate of 7 veils, archmage). I wouldn't lose sleep over just going pure wizard, and missing out on the opportunity to persist all my buffs for free or getting to play around with coloured walls. You still retain your most important asset - full spellcasting progression.:)
megrimguy 06-21-07, 01:27 PM	You seem to be short on at least one feat (not counting Scribe Scroll). A 13th-level wizard has 5 feats from his levels, plus two bonus feats from the wizard class (plus Scribe Scroll and maybe one other feat, if you're human). If you haven't picked it yet, I recommend looking into the requirements for Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil. It's a 7-level PrC, which should complement your 13 other levels well. The veils feature of the class allow you to be warded against creatures that attack you, letting you partake in the melee as you see fit (with plenty of retributive action). Thats right, it was eschew materials... Do you guys think I should go archamge until I get the stuff for Intiate of the Sevenfold? I think that class soudns awesome.
teshen 06-21-07, 01:42 PM	If your game has psionics... get a psion to remake your mind. (:mymy:) You'll get the prc levels you missed 'the first time through.' Failing that, see if retraining options are available (PHB II... I think). It's not nearly as strong as some of the others have been suggesting (...it hard to compete with IotSFV or Incantrix) but I always wanted to try a 'spider-sense' wizard. wizard 5/oracle 6/fatespinner 4... He'd always see it coming. Throw in mindbender 1 (and only one as Shaman pointed out) and the Mindsight feat from the Lords of Madness book and/or maybe a few levels in wild mage for the redirect spell and you can't be hit with a sneak attack (improved/uncanny dodge), you have evasion in armor... find/make some with 0 ASF, and you can add to and reroll saves as need be. And that's before contingencies. :D
Zarreth_Nessad 06-22-07, 09:15 AM	Assuming retraining options (and psychic reformation) aren't available, my suggestion would be to go to 15th level as a wizard, then get the feats Spell Focus (any) & Skill Focus (Spellcraft), then go into Archmage for the rest of your 5 levels. With your focus on Evocation, Mastery of Elements will do a LOT of good for you. I wouldn't bother going Initiate of the 7-fold Veil until epic, though, if you go into Archmage in the first place. By the time you would qualify for it, you can do better with some of the higher-level reqs for High Magic with the Archmage. If retraining options are available, I would recommend switching out 3 of your feats for Spell Focus (Abjuration), Greater Spell Focus (Abjuration), and Skill Focus (Spellcraft), and finish through lvl 20 with the Initiate of the 7-fold Veil. If you go epic, then proceed into the Archmage class (for which you would already have the 2 Spell Focus' and Skill Focus prereqs). Other than that, Teshen's suggestion seemed interesting, and you really can't go wrong with Incantatrix (assuming FR material is ok, it's in the Player's Guide to Faerun), at least through level 4. Another alternative is the Shadowcrafter (FR - Underdark) which focuses on Illusions. Your comment that "I haven't prohibited any schools yet, as I want to keep my options open" raises questions, but I'll assume the DM is allowing it.. normally you have to choose or not choose @ wizard lvl 1.
Draco Strang 06-22-07, 12:47 PM	You can stop right there. He said "good", he did not say "optimized". 'Scuse me, monkey boy.:rolleyes: It's just a widely-held convention on these boards (and NOT just CO) that if you want to go in a certain direction with your wizard, there are a dozens and dozens of good PrCs to choose from, and you're shooting yourself in the foot if you don't ditch the base class after five levels. Unless of course you really want a familiar to talk to, in which case you'd stick. Granted though, if your DM is limiting you to core-only, your options are somewhat limited. You'd be pretty much forced to stick with the base class and just improve your feat selection, but if you're 13 levels in, the damage has been done, and you're basically stuck with what you've chosen.
madbliza 06-22-07, 03:30 PM	you're shooting yourself in the foot if you don't ditch the base class after five levelsI dislike these sort of statements. Especially when it comes to casters.
Kevin Andrew Murphy 06-22-07, 04:06 PM	I dislike these sort of statements. Especially when it comes to casters. I dislike them too, but mostly because they're true. Almost all of the PrCs that are worth playing or otherwise interesting to play have some limitation which makes it so that you can't get into them before 7th-8th level, which means that you take one or two levels of wizard with no other advantage than spellcasting progression and familiar benefits. But let's face it, once you get to level 5 no wizard wants a familiar, since level 5 is when you get fireball and so do your opponents and thereafter your familiar is either stuffed in a Familiar Pocket or hanging out back at your tower, either a prop or a hindrance. What it comes down to is that 6th and 7th level are the doldrums for casters unless they're sneaking a level from Mindbender to get telepathy. I don't like min-maxing much, but if it's the only alternative to the Charlie Brown "I got a rock" scenario, well, it beats the alternative.
Draco Strang 06-22-07, 07:22 PM	I dislike these sort of statements. Especially when it comes to casters. Yea, well the truth hurts, eh? There's no possibly way you can tell me that in a game where outside sources (Complete Series, campaign settings, other splat books, etc.) that offer arcane classes that grant FULL CASTER PROGRESSION in addition to tons of special abilities, bonus feats inherent to the class, high skill points (in some), higher BAB (in some), and a multitude of other things is superior to the base wizard. What's he get? 3 metamagic feats (most classes give a free one anyway, if not more) and the ability to speak with his familiar. Whoopty-doo. :rolleyes: I'm not knocking the wizard at all, I'm just saying that it's pointless to not take advantage of the stuff that's out there if it's available in your game. Believe me, I've played straight wizard-20, Wizard 10/PrC 10, and Wizard 5/Prc 10/PrC 5. The latter two are far superior mechanically. Granted however, if you get a clever player behind the core-only wizard he can be ridiculously powerful. It's just that he can be even more powerful with a good PrC.
Kevin Andrew Murphy 06-23-07, 03:01 AM	The one trouble I will admit is that if you take a powerful PrC, the DM may have to scale the encounters higher. In a recent game, my Wiz 7/Effigy Master 3 was so effective with a manticore effigy and a handful of sphinxes (and not even any wacky templated beasties, since the DM disallowed them) that the DM asked me to hold it back so the fighter characters could get some action. And that was even with taking a much-unloved one-level spellcasting hit. Look at what fits with your character and try to play that.
IAS 06-24-07, 03:12 PM	I suggest you take 5 wizard lv picking iron will and empower spell. The you may take 1 level of mindbender (telepathy at will) and two levels of geometer (spellbook organization). Then levels of incanatrix wich is the metamagic genius, a must for a wizard. Archmage for me it's not such a greit prestige, so i suggest 2 levels of it. Archmage will consume 3 feat that are not actually that much good, but anyway your choice. Effigy master? cmon...