Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sages 06-18-07, 09:28 AM	Can a Wielder have 0-level powers?
Tyroki 06-18-07, 09:33 AM	0 level powers? O.o They don't exist.
Lycanthromancer 06-18-07, 09:39 AM	And don't you mean wilder? Slightly different connotations, there. Keep your eyes peeled for my revision of the XPH powers. I've got talent. :)
Tyroki 06-18-07, 09:40 AM	Speaking of which... GIMME! XD
sages 06-18-07, 10:09 AM	Us are bad at english so sorry.:hides: In the article The minds eye I saw something about 0-Level Psion Powers (Talents), can someone explain it to us. Thanks.
Tyroki 06-18-07, 10:14 AM	Yeah I've wondered what all this talent business is about... Lycan, get in here!
forsaken1111 06-18-07, 10:17 AM	Us are bad at english so sorry.:hides: In the article The minds eye I saw something about 0-Level Psion Powers (Talents), can someone explain it to us. Thanks. Can you link to the article you're refering to?
Lycanthromancer 06-18-07, 10:21 AM	Talents are 0-level powers, much like orisons and cantrips for divine and arcane magic. Talents existed in 3.0, but were nixed in 3.5 (which many people don't like). I'm reintroducing them as minor powers that you can manifest for free by expending your psionic focus (ie, psionics' answer to reserve feats). Some of them augment, but you have to manifest them as 1st level powers (by spending 1 power point) before you can augment.
Tyroki 06-18-07, 10:22 AM	Once again man... Gimme! XD
InkBlot 06-18-07, 10:34 AM	The articles which mention talents are from 3.0. They're outdated material, and can't be used in a 3.5 game without some modification. Certain 3.0 articles were updated by the Mind's Eye guys themselves, others were updated on these boards. There's a big compendium thread of updated material, which I'll see if I can't find later. In 3.0, psions (wilders didn't exist) and psychic warriors could learn 0th level powers, apart from their 1st level powers. 0th level powers were called Talents, like 0th level arcane spells are called Cantrips and 0th level divine spells are called Orisons. Ever notice that my light doesn't quite cut the butter as a 1st level power? It used to be a 0th level power. In 3.0 you didn't have to waste a 1st-level-power-known on it. Also, you could manifest it without any pp cost a certain number of times per day, based on your psion or psywar level. Many people have attempted to update Talents to 3.5. I made two attempts; one gave psions extra power-known slots, which could only be used to get powers off of a special list of the most craptacular 1st level powers (the powers that used to be talents). There was also a feat, like Expanded Knowledge, which could be taken as early as 1st level and gave you extra talents known. Free manifesting was not part of this update. The other grouped together the effects of the former talents under 6 versatile 1st level powers - one for each discipline. When you manifested, for example, psychokinetic talent you could create effects similar to control light, create sound, far hand, and my light for the duration of the power. It was like 6 uber-prestidigitations. Free manifestations wasn't part of this update, but the cost of each effect was reduced (1 power point for all, as opposed to 1 for each).
Tyroki 06-18-07, 10:38 AM	The other grouped together the effects of the former talents under 6 versatile 1st level powers - one for each discipline. When you manifested, for example, psychokinetic talent you could create effects similar to control light, create sound, far hand, and my light for the duration of the power. It was like 6 uber-prestidigitations. Free manifestations wasn't part of this update, but the cost of each effect was reduced (1 power point for all, as opposed to 1 for each). Oooh. Now THAT is what I call, shiney.
InkBlot 06-18-07, 11:02 AM	If you want, I could rewrite them. The original thread is lost, and so is the .txt version I thought I saved on my HD. The thread with the Mind's Eye conversions didn't come up in the forum search, so it's probably somewhere in the archives. edit: I shall attempt to rewrite them. Psychokinetic Talent Psychokinesis [light, sonic, or force; see text] Level: Psion/wilder 1 Display: Auditory and visual Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Area/Effect/Target: See text Duration: 1 hour; see text Saving Throw: None Power Resistance: No Power Points: 1 You can perform minor feats of psychokinetic talent. Choose one of the following talents each round. You must concentrate (a standard action) to use a talent, but not to maintain this power. Far Hand: You can mentally lift and move an object, weighing up to 5 pounds, at will from a distance. As a move action, you can propel the object as far as 15 feet in any direction, though the power ends if the distance between you and the object exceeds the power’s range. This power gains the force subtype when you use this talent. Control Light: You can increase the illumination of an area of up to three 10-ft. cubes, by as little as 5% (barely perceptible) or as much as 100%. If you increase the light by 50% or more, the visual ability of creatures that depend on light to see improves accordingly. You can use this power to increase the illumination of an area by 200% (improving visual abilities accordingly), but in such a case the power ends after 1 round. This power gains the light subtype when you use this talent. Control Shadow: You can decrease the illumination of an area of up to three 10-ft. cubes, by as little as 5% (barely perceptible) or as much as 100% (total darkness). If you decrease the light by 50% or more, the visual ability of creatures that depend on light to see declines accordingly. If you decrease the ambient light in an area by 100%, even those with lowlight vision are unable to see within the affected area. For each 25% decrease in ambient light, characters in the area gain a cumulative +1 circumstance bonus on Hide checks (to a maximum of +4 when all the light is gone). This power gains the light subtype when you use this talent. Create Sound: You to create a volume of sound that rises, recedes, approaches, or remains at a fixed place. You choose what type of sound when manifesting it and cannot thereafter change the sound’s basic character. The volume of sound created depends on your level. You can produce as much noise as four normal humans per manifester level (maximum twenty humans). Thus, talking, singing, shouting, walking, marching, or running sounds can be created. The noise can be virtually any type of sound within the volume limit. A horde of rats running and squeaking is about the same volume as eight humans running and shouting. A roaring lion is equal to the noise from sixteen humans, while a roaring dire tiger is equal to the noise from twenty humans. This power gains the sonic subtype when you use this talent. Augment: If you spend 4 additional power points, you no longer need to concentrate to use a talent. You can still only use one each round. Telepathic Talent Telepathy [mind-affecting] Level: Psion/wilder 1 Display: Material, mental, and visual Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target: One creature at a time Duration: 1 hour; see text Saving Throw: Will negates or none; see text Power Resistance: Yes Power Points: 1 You can perform minor feats of telepathic talent. Choose one of the following talents each round. You must concentrate (a standard action) to use a talent, but not to maintain this power. You may choose a new target each time you use another talent. Daze: You cloud the mind of a humanoid creature with 4 or fewer Hit Dice so that it takes no actions for one round. Humanoids of 5 or more HD are not affected. A dazed subject is not stunned, so attackers get no special advantage against it. Distract: You cause your subject’s mind to wander, distracting her for one minute. Subjects under the effect of distract make all Listen, Spot, Search, and Sense Motive checks at a -2 penalty. Missive: You instantaneously send a telepathic message of up to ten words to any living creature within range. Missive is strictly a one-way exchange from you to the subject. If you do not share a common language, the subject “hears” meaningless mental syllables. Telempathic Projection: You alter the subject’s mood for one minute, adjusting its attitude toward you by one step in a positive direction. For instance, an unfriendly creature can be made indifferent, or a hostile creature unfriendly. You can grant a +2 bonus on your own (or others’) Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Perform, or Sense Motive checks involving the affected creature. Augment: For every 2 additional power points spent, the saving throw DC of this power increases by 1. Metacreative Talent Metacreativity (Creation) Level: Psion/wilder 1 Display: Material Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: 0 ft. Target: One object of up to 1 lb., or none; see text Effect: None, or see text Duration: 1 hour; see text Saving Throw: None Power Resistance: No Power Points: 1 You can perform minor feats of metacreative talent. Choose one of the following talents each round. You must concentrate (a standard action) to use a talent, but not to maintain this power. Anything you create with this power dissolves after 1 minute. Attempting to use any created object as a material component in a spell causes the spell to fail. Bolt: You create 2d4 ectoplasmic crossbow bolts, arrows, or sling bullets, appropriate to your size, which dissipate into their constituent ectoplasmic particles after being fired. Mend: You repair small breaks or tears in an object (but not warps, such as might be caused by a warp wood spell). You can weld broken metallic objects such as a ring, a chain link, a medallion, or a slender dagger, providing but one break exists. Ceramic or wooden objects with multiple breaks can be invisibly rejoined to be as strong as new. A hole in a leather sack or a wineskin is completely healed over. You can repair a magic item, but the item’s magical abilities are not restored. You cannot mend broken creatures (including constructs). This talent is an instantaneous effect. Trinket: You create a nonmagical, nonpsionic, unattended object of nonliving, vegetable matter. The volume of the item created cannot exceed 1 cubic inch. You must succeed at an appropriate skill check to make a complex item. You cannot create a dried herb, poison, or other distillate of dead plant matter that has a special secondary effect. Augment: If you spend 4 additional power points, you can manifest this power as a swift action, and you can also use a talent as a swift action. Psychoportative Talent Psychoportation Level: Psion/wilder 1 Display: Auditory Manifesting Time: 1 immediate action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 hour; see text Power Points: 1 You can perform minor feats of psychoportative talent. When you manifest this power, you immediately benefit from one of the following talents. At any time during the duration of this power, you can take an immediate action to activate or reactivate one of the following talents. Burst: You increase your land speed by 10 feet, for 1 round. (This adjustment counts as an enhancement bonus to speed.) Catfall: You recover instantly from a fall and can absorb some damage from falling. You land on your feet no matter how far you fall, and you take damage as if the fall were 10 feet shorter than it actually is. This talent affects you and anything you carry or hold (up to your maximum load). You can only activate this talent while falling. Float: You mentally support yourself in water or similar liquid, for one round per manifester level. You can gain a swim speed of 10 feet using this talent alone, or use it to boost your swim speed by 10 feet. Clairsentient Talent Clairsentience Level: Psion/wilder 1 Display: Mental and visual Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal or 60 ft.; see text Target: You or none; see text Area: Cone -shaped emanation centered on you, or none; see text Duration: 1 hour; see text Saving Throw: None Power Resistance: No Power Points: 1 You can perform minor feats of clairsentient talent. Choose one of the following talents each round. You must concentrate (a standard action) to use a talent, but not to maintain this power. Detect Psionics: As the detect psionics power, except as noted here. Know Direction And Location: You generally know where you are. This talent is useful to characters who end up at unfamiliar destinations after teleporting, using a gate, or traveling to or from other planes of existence. You gain general information about your location as a feeling or presentiment. The information is usually no more detailed than a summary that locates you according to a prominent local or regional site. You also know what direction you are facing. Using this talent prior to making a Knowledge (the planes) check with astral caravan grants a +2 bonus on the check. Inkling: You can tell whether a particular action will bring good or bad results for you in the immediate future. You have a 50% chance of of accurately predicting the future. The DM may determine that the question is so straightforward that a successful result is automatic, or so vague as to have no chance of success. You are accurate, you get one of four premonitions: The action will probably bring good results. Bad results. Both good and bad. Nothing; The actions that don’t have especially good or bad results. If the power fails, you get the “nothing” result. A psion who gets the “nothing” result has no way to tell whether it resulted from a failed or successful inkling. You can see into the future only about half an hour, so anything that might happen after that does not affect your inkling. Thus, you might miss the long-term consequences of the contemplated action. All inklings manifested by you about the same action use the same die roll result as the first inkling. You can only use this talent once per manifestation of clairsentient talent. Psychometabolic Talent Psychometabolism Level: Psion/wilder 1 Display: Olfactory Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 hour; see text Saving Throw: None Power Resistance: No Power Points: 1 You can perform minor feats of clairsentient talent. You must concentrate (a standard action) to use a talent, but not to maintain this power. Name pending: You gain a +1 resistance bonus on saves for one minute. Verve: You gain 2 temporary hit points. Name pending: Your unarmed strikes are more effective. Details pending. edit: This is a work in progress
Tyroki 06-18-07, 11:23 AM	Do it O.o Do it now.
AntiDjinn 06-18-07, 02:40 PM	3.0 zero level powers (Talents) were dropped from 3.5 because of the introduction of augmentation. Since the first thing you would do with a zero level power is augment it to the utility and power of a 1st level or higher power, they would just basically become additional first level powers with the option to undermanifest them. In order to fly in 3.5 and work with the current mechanics, zero level effects would have to be: Useful, but of trivial power like cantrips and orisons. Free use on an X/day basis, or expend focus per use basis. They would either have no option to augment, or would need augmentation that is expensive enough that they never become as powerful as first level powers. Flavor-wise, they should be the sort of effects that would be used by fledgling mentalists. Just as cantrips are the first spells taught apprentices or that spontaneously occur for zero level bards and sorcerers, psionic zeroes should be the sort of incipient effects that an teenage wilder or psion might manifest before they have realized their true potential.
Lycanthromancer 06-18-07, 03:02 PM	Good stuff. Far hand would be a perfect example. You may be pumping a dozen power points into it, but it'll never be as good as telekinetic force.
hovnarr 06-18-07, 04:22 PM	If a player asks for it, I allow talents as minor versions of the powers they've already selected, in return for expending focus. PP are limited and I don't think you should have to spend on very minor psionic effects. For example, if you have Matter Agitation, you can heat food or boil water, set combustibles a fire etc. - basically anything that doesn't deal damage - by just expending your focus. The specifics are worked out based on what powers the player selects, but they are never more powerful than a Prestidigitation. I also allow players to manifests displays as such by expending focus - sonic displays can be useful to create diversions etc.
InkBlot 06-18-07, 04:32 PM	PP are limited and I don't think you should have to spend on very minor psionic effects. Powers-known is even more limited. I wouldn't mind paying 1pp for far hand if that's what the power they needed at the moment, but I can't bring myself to spend the power-known slot on learning far hand in the first place!. Why bother learning far hand, when I can use that same power-known-slot learn psionic charm and simply use my new friend to get the widget for me? Or I could spend that power-known on astral construct, and make a small flying hand-shaped astral construct to fetch things for me. How could I justify learning a power to make little things float in the air, when there are so many other powers that are more useful? Even know direction and location can save your life, and it's just as useful as far hand in everyday living!
hovnarr 06-18-07, 05:39 PM	I agree, but that's a fault of far hand - not my inofficial talent system ;) It continues at higher levels, so a psion who knows telekinetic force might very well expend focus to get a far hand-like result, which makes it a completely wasted slot. Look, the problem is really this: It's almost impossible to make every power completely balanced. Thus, if you have 30 powers to choose from and only get to pick 5, you're inevitably going to have like 10 that almost always get picked, 10 powers that some like and some don't and 10 powers that are so bad, comparatively, that nobody will look at them twice. In Far Hand's case, it gets even worse since Hand of the mage is only 900 gp and readily available to anybody who has a neck.
Celsun 06-18-07, 05:52 PM	Can a Wielder have 0-level powers? I wrote up a talent system during a stint of unemployment. It's in my sig.
ShaRd2000 06-18-07, 06:28 PM	Wasn't it that you could only manifest the talents for free as many times as your main manifesting stat's bonus, then it took 1 pp after that? I don't have my original book on me atm, but that doesn't seem to bad to me.
Tyroki 06-19-07, 03:20 AM	I must admit, talents sound flavoursome.
AntiDjinn 06-19-07, 04:02 AM	Properly implemented, talents could represent the tiny effects a psion might use just to make life more comfortable, having little to do with combat or adventuring. The Clean cantrip is a good example: A mage uses it to tidy up his home or to handle personal hygiene. Not a powerhouse, never going to win a battle, but it makes sense that someone created this trivial spell because it has its uses. Likewise, a minor psychometabolic effect that lets you shave and groom your hair would be a talent, as would a psychokinetic effect that lets you light a candle or campfire. At higher levels I suspect talents would fall out of use, except between encounters. Whatever other resources it costs to use a talent; expend focus, X/day, or power points, eventually the major resource is the action. At very high levels you (and your opponents) can accomplish so much with a standard action that you won't want to waste the time. After the encounter is over you might use your talent to heat a pot of cocoa or repel the blood and gore from your garments, when you are on the initiative clock, not so much.
ShaRd2000 06-19-07, 07:30 AM	I still don't see why they took talents out completely though, they could be very flavourful.
Tyroki 06-19-07, 08:12 AM	Neither do I... They obviously seem decent outside of combat, which would probably be where you would use them anyway. So what matter? >.>