29 ac gestal psion//monk with vop, how? [Archive] - Wizards Community

29 ac gestal psion//monk with vop, how? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Daeva
12-30-07, 07:04 PM ok the guy has a 16 dex, and a 16 wisdom, is walking around with a 29 ac with vow of poverty.

i can only come up with 21 ac. (+3 wis, +3 dex +5 armor from vop) so 8 of the ac is from somewhere else.

is there some power hes using at level 4 to get +8 ac.?

he does not have complete psionic.

this is the smae character thats the BF of the GM whos somehow casting through his psycrystal (if you cna tell me how please do), and got to choose non monk feats for monk feats, and somehow has the ability to perma charm enemies (he also seems to have a really high number of power points but i havent been keeping track)

am i looking at a GMs favored pet character here or am i mising something.
TifRhal
12-30-07, 07:14 PM I would have to say DM's pet even with dodge and other feats i dont see him getting 8 ac unless he is fighting defensivly all the time and has like 10 ranks in tumble. But even then the hole perma charm thing no clue about that.
Scion of Coldshard
12-30-07, 07:27 PM If they didnt realize that the AC bonus doesnt stack with inertial armor that would get a pretty good portion of the way there. At that point a combination of a huge number of options could get the last 2 points of AC.

If the character has the vow of peace as well as the vow of poverty then they are just about there as well without having to worry about stacking issues. Vow of peace would also account for the other abilities with its calming aura and the huge bonus to diplomacy checks.
Sinfire Titan
12-30-07, 09:36 PM Force Screen? If he is a high enough level, that can get a +8 to his AC post-augmentations. Or maybe Defensive Precognitions each round.
Daeva
12-30-07, 11:18 PM he wa slevle 4 and theres no way hes vow of peace he was punching goblins in the face without hesitation, and he was levle 4.

hed level 5 now and hasnt reposted his updated character sheet since level 2 so im not sure his feats.
InkBlot
12-30-07, 11:49 PM If the psion is an egoist, then force screen plus thicken skin and animal affinity would do it.

+4 shield bonus from force screen

+2 "enhancement bonus to your Armor Class" from a 4pp thicken skin.

+2 increase to either Wisdom or Dexterity modifier from animal affinity.

This would only last for a few minutes though.
Rahvan
12-31-07, 06:40 AM Could you please link us to the character sheet, so we know what kind of powers and the like he has.

even if it hasn't been updated for the past two levels it will still give us some insight in what powers he has, and what feats he has chosen, as it will tell us what his statistics are.

From a person's character sheet one could tell a whole lot about the character, but we need to see it for that, so Daeva, could you link us to it?
hogarth
12-31-07, 07:06 AM ok the guy has a 16 dex, and a 16 wisdom, is walking around with a 29 ac with vow of poverty.

i can only come up with 21 ac. (+3 wis, +3 dex +5 armor from vop) so 8 of the ac is from somewhere else.
Maybe they didn't notice that the +5 exalted bonus doesnt stack with an armor bonus. So add on Force Screen (+4 shield) and Inertial Armor (+4 armor) and that's 29.
Suldarr'essalar
12-31-07, 08:44 AM If the psion is an egoist, then force screen plus thicken skin and animal affinity would do it.

+4 shield bonus from force screen

+2 "enhancement bonus to your Armor Class" from a 4pp thicken skin.

+2 increase to either Wisdom or Dexterity modifier from animal affinity.

This would only last for a few minutes though.
Add precognition defensive and another animal affinity and you have AC 33.
InkBlot
12-31-07, 01:46 PM True. You could also just replace thicken skin with another animal affinity. That saves you another power known.
Scion of Coldshard
12-31-07, 06:04 PM he wa slevle 4 and theres no way hes vow of peace he was punching goblins in the face without hesitation, and he was levle 4.

hed level 5 now and hasnt reposted his updated character sheet since level 2 so im not sure his feats.

If they didnt realize that he couldnt do that then it might've passed by or he could've been doing nonlethal damage or there could be some other reason going on.

Vow of peace would pretty much fill out everything else you mentioned though. Higher AC, super diplomacy, oddly pacified guys, etc.
PhaedrusXY
12-31-07, 07:46 PM High level psions can manifest through their psicrystal. This is listed in the Psicrystal powers.
CrimsonDeath
12-31-07, 08:03 PM High level psions can manifest through their psicrystal. This is listed in the Psicrystal powers.

Not at level 4.
Solstysse
12-31-07, 09:09 PM At level 4 he couldn't manifest AA twice...too many pp's in one go. Even if he could it would only bump his AC by two max for his +4 to dex...the bonuses don't stack so he can't manifest it twice on dex.

I would say:

Base 10 +3(wis) +3(dex) +5(vop armour bonus) +2(AAdex add on) + 4(force sheild, sheild bonus) + 2(insight bonus from precog defense) = 29 AC *BINGO*
Nothing is over his ML either...max is 4 pp at any give time. They all work..
Daeva
12-31-07, 09:25 PM thank you solstysse for mapping it out for me in a manner an idiot can understand, with a cost low enough for it to make sense for meyou deserve this

:cookie:
Solstysse
12-31-07, 09:33 PM No problems. I heart detective work. I play a psion with a really high ac once I'm buffed and I have all those powers on my known lists. I'm really used to my group questioning my build so I actually have note cards on my AC breakdown so I could just hand them the card and continue the game without having to stop and explain to 5 hyper guys why the chick playing the psion never gets hit. *smiles*

Thank you for cookies! Loooove cookies!
CrimsonDeath
12-31-07, 11:59 PM At level 4 he couldn't manifest AA twice...too many pp's in one go. Even if he could it would only bump his AC by two max for his +4 to dex...the bonuses don't stack so he can't manifest it twice on dex.

First, yes he can. It only costs 3PP, and even without bonus PP due to Intelligence, he has 17.

Second, only one would go into Dex. The other would go into Wisdom, and since he's a Monk on the other side of the gestalt, that would add to his AC too.

So, in the plan you presented, the second Animal Affinity could replace Defensive Precognition.

Either way, it's still four actions in order to get 29 AC for four minutes. He'd have to know that combat was coming, or else the fight would be over by the time he got all his defenses up. And if he wanted to do it more than once per day, he wouldn't be able to manifest very much else.
Solstysse
01-01-08, 02:17 AM First, yes he can. It only costs 3PP, and even without bonus PP due to Intelligence, he has 17.

Second, only one would go into Dex. The other would go into Wisdom, and since he's a Monk on the other side of the gestalt, that would add to his AC too.

So, in the plan you presented, the second Animal Affinity could replace Defensive Precognition.

Either way, it's still four actions in order to get 29 AC for four minutes. He'd have to know that combat was coming, or else the fight would be over by the time he got all his defenses up. And if he wanted to do it more than once per day, he wouldn't be able to manifest very much else.

To use the augmented power it'd be a total of 8 pp, three for the original manifestation and five for the second stat bump. I don't think you can cast AA twice back to back...otherwise there wouldn't be a need for an augmentation. It saves 6 seconds, one turn, if it means hanging back one more turn for an AC bump I think he'd do it.

You're right though, if he didn't buff right before battle he's be severly hindered in but he might be using his psion as a buff class and his monk as his battle class. I'm thinking the augment was meant to be a balancing cost for the power. +4 to a stat is alot...even temporarily. That's 2 potions, two third lvl spells, in other words a big drain on anyone but a manifester. The augmentation cost is reeeeally high for a first level power, you'd have to have 8 lvls in psion to manifest two at the same time which is about the level you'd be a little less careful about reserving your third lvl spells. So it's more even that way.

Defensive Precog is still what I'd choose over adding to my cha in his case. +2 to AC and all my saves? Can't beat that...and finding something you can give yourself an insight bonus with...talk about an all around cool power. He may waste his power points on it but if he's got an AC of 29 he may have built his character around it. It sounds like that might be the case. Anticipating that one combat a game is normal for their games, that's what I'd do.

It's easy to leave your powers up a little longer than you should...especially if he thinks he can get away with it. Dating the dm may provide him that window. Especially if he's not spending turns at the start of battle buffing or at the very least declaring he's manifesting power before he knows a battle is coming.

There's a whole host of ways he could pull it off, I just illustrated one that's not cheating. I suggest poking him with a sharp stick until he tells you...but this may be considered barbaric in some circles. :)
CrimsonDeath
01-01-08, 06:13 AM I don't think you can cast AA twice back to back...otherwise there wouldn't be a need for an augmentation. It saves 6 seconds, one turn, if it means hanging back one more turn for an AC bump I think he'd do it
I don't see why you couldn't manifest it twice and choose a different ability score the second time. The purpose of the augment is exactly as you said: to save time by boosting two ability scores with the same action.

+4 to a stat is alot...even temporarily. That's 2 potions, two third lvl spells, in other words a big drain on anyone but a manifester.
I'm not sure where you got "two third level spells". For most characters, Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Eagle's Splendor, Fox's Cunning, and Owl's Wisdom are level 2 spells, and I haven't seen anyone who casts them as level 3 spells.
Solstysse
01-01-08, 01:47 PM Hmmm...sorry they are second level spells. You're right.

I'm just trying to make sure it's balanced. The Psion would have 23 pp (before he added any racial bonuses), 9 powers known, 5 first level and 4 second level. Up against a wizard of the same int, the wizard would have 4 zero level, 4 first level and 2 second level spells. I'd go ahead and relate the psion to a wizard because they work off the same stat, only know a certain list of powers/spells and such. At best, even if he went above and beyond and specialized in transmutation (bears endurance/eagles splendor/etc school) he'd still only have 3, at best, second level spells to which he'd have to devote those buff spells to...whereas the psion could buff all of his stats once and still have pp's left over.

But for a better comparision lets equate a cantrip to an unaugmented first level power (cost: 1pp) and a first level spell to an first level power augmented with one pp, (cost: 2pp) and a third level spell to a second level unaugmented power (cost: 3pp). So lets manifest powers equal to a specialized wizards spells per day, giving us a total of 24 power points. This is acceptable because most people who chose psionic classes chose a psionic races as a base...giving them at least one or two pp's at first level in addition to their normal total. So they are balanced for the purposes of manifesting AA twice...yay. (plus it says you can manifest a power twice in the eph as long as the power doesn't state it can't be done, like in vigor) So you've got me there but I really appreciate your pointing it out because a nice thought exercise came of it. (And a healthy round of "psion are overpowered!" arguments spewing forth from my husband LoL)

Also we didn't think about him carrying around potions to add to AC...50 gp for a sheild of faith +2 totally saves power points. Especially since putting AA up against a potion of bear's endurance at 300gp a pop...that makes 1pp = to 100gp. Ouch. Why do that when you could just buy a potion and get a +2 at a rate of 25gp a point of AC...vs 150gp per point with AA. A replenishing supply of PP everday is awesome and gp's are hard to come by sometimes but at 50 it's a bargin. I still think Cheaty McCheaterson is walking around fully buffed in some way all the time and just not saying anything.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Daeva 12-30-07, 07:04 PM	ok the guy has a 16 dex, and a 16 wisdom, is walking around with a 29 ac with vow of poverty. i can only come up with 21 ac. (+3 wis, +3 dex +5 armor from vop) so 8 of the ac is from somewhere else. is there some power hes using at level 4 to get +8 ac.? he does not have complete psionic. this is the smae character thats the BF of the GM whos somehow casting through his psycrystal (if you cna tell me how please do), and got to choose non monk feats for monk feats, and somehow has the ability to perma charm enemies (he also seems to have a really high number of power points but i havent been keeping track) am i looking at a GMs favored pet character here or am i mising something.
TifRhal 12-30-07, 07:14 PM	I would have to say DM's pet even with dodge and other feats i dont see him getting 8 ac unless he is fighting defensivly all the time and has like 10 ranks in tumble. But even then the hole perma charm thing no clue about that.
Scion of Coldshard 12-30-07, 07:27 PM	If they didnt realize that the AC bonus doesnt stack with inertial armor that would get a pretty good portion of the way there. At that point a combination of a huge number of options could get the last 2 points of AC. If the character has the vow of peace as well as the vow of poverty then they are just about there as well without having to worry about stacking issues. Vow of peace would also account for the other abilities with its calming aura and the huge bonus to diplomacy checks.
Sinfire Titan 12-30-07, 09:36 PM	Force Screen? If he is a high enough level, that can get a +8 to his AC post-augmentations. Or maybe Defensive Precognitions each round.
Daeva 12-30-07, 11:18 PM	he wa slevle 4 and theres no way hes vow of peace he was punching goblins in the face without hesitation, and he was levle 4. hed level 5 now and hasnt reposted his updated character sheet since level 2 so im not sure his feats.
InkBlot 12-30-07, 11:49 PM	If the psion is an egoist, then force screen plus thicken skin and animal affinity would do it. +4 shield bonus from force screen +2 "enhancement bonus to your Armor Class" from a 4pp thicken skin. +2 increase to either Wisdom or Dexterity modifier from animal affinity. This would only last for a few minutes though.
Rahvan 12-31-07, 06:40 AM	Could you please link us to the character sheet, so we know what kind of powers and the like he has. even if it hasn't been updated for the past two levels it will still give us some insight in what powers he has, and what feats he has chosen, as it will tell us what his statistics are. From a person's character sheet one could tell a whole lot about the character, but we need to see it for that, so Daeva, could you link us to it?
hogarth 12-31-07, 07:06 AM	ok the guy has a 16 dex, and a 16 wisdom, is walking around with a 29 ac with vow of poverty. i can only come up with 21 ac. (+3 wis, +3 dex +5 armor from vop) so 8 of the ac is from somewhere else. Maybe they didn't notice that the +5 exalted bonus doesnt stack with an armor bonus. So add on Force Screen (+4 shield) and Inertial Armor (+4 armor) and that's 29.
Suldarr'essalar 12-31-07, 08:44 AM	If the psion is an egoist, then force screen plus thicken skin and animal affinity would do it. +4 shield bonus from force screen +2 "enhancement bonus to your Armor Class" from a 4pp thicken skin. +2 increase to either Wisdom or Dexterity modifier from animal affinity. This would only last for a few minutes though. Add precognition defensive and another animal affinity and you have AC 33.
InkBlot 12-31-07, 01:46 PM	True. You could also just replace thicken skin with another animal affinity. That saves you another power known.
Scion of Coldshard 12-31-07, 06:04 PM	he wa slevle 4 and theres no way hes vow of peace he was punching goblins in the face without hesitation, and he was levle 4. hed level 5 now and hasnt reposted his updated character sheet since level 2 so im not sure his feats. If they didnt realize that he couldnt do that then it might've passed by or he could've been doing nonlethal damage or there could be some other reason going on. Vow of peace would pretty much fill out everything else you mentioned though. Higher AC, super diplomacy, oddly pacified guys, etc.
PhaedrusXY 12-31-07, 07:46 PM	High level psions can manifest through their psicrystal. This is listed in the Psicrystal powers.
CrimsonDeath 12-31-07, 08:03 PM	High level psions can manifest through their psicrystal. This is listed in the Psicrystal powers. Not at level 4.
Solstysse 12-31-07, 09:09 PM	At level 4 he couldn't manifest AA twice...too many pp's in one go. Even if he could it would only bump his AC by two max for his +4 to dex...the bonuses don't stack so he can't manifest it twice on dex. I would say: Base 10 +3(wis) +3(dex) +5(vop armour bonus) +2(AAdex add on) + 4(force sheild, sheild bonus) + 2(insight bonus from precog defense) = 29 AC BINGO Nothing is over his ML either...max is 4 pp at any give time. They all work..
Daeva 12-31-07, 09:25 PM	thank you solstysse for mapping it out for me in a manner an idiot can understand, with a cost low enough for it to make sense for meyou deserve this :cookie:
Solstysse 12-31-07, 09:33 PM	No problems. I heart detective work. I play a psion with a really high ac once I'm buffed and I have all those powers on my known lists. I'm really used to my group questioning my build so I actually have note cards on my AC breakdown so I could just hand them the card and continue the game without having to stop and explain to 5 hyper guys why the chick playing the psion never gets hit. smiles Thank you for cookies! Loooove cookies!
CrimsonDeath 12-31-07, 11:59 PM	At level 4 he couldn't manifest AA twice...too many pp's in one go. Even if he could it would only bump his AC by two max for his +4 to dex...the bonuses don't stack so he can't manifest it twice on dex. First, yes he can. It only costs 3PP, and even without bonus PP due to Intelligence, he has 17. Second, only one would go into Dex. The other would go into Wisdom, and since he's a Monk on the other side of the gestalt, that would add to his AC too. So, in the plan you presented, the second Animal Affinity could replace Defensive Precognition. Either way, it's still four actions in order to get 29 AC for four minutes. He'd have to know that combat was coming, or else the fight would be over by the time he got all his defenses up. And if he wanted to do it more than once per day, he wouldn't be able to manifest very much else.
Solstysse 01-01-08, 02:17 AM	First, yes he can. It only costs 3PP, and even without bonus PP due to Intelligence, he has 17. Second, only one would go into Dex. The other would go into Wisdom, and since he's a Monk on the other side of the gestalt, that would add to his AC too. So, in the plan you presented, the second Animal Affinity could replace Defensive Precognition. Either way, it's still four actions in order to get 29 AC for four minutes. He'd have to know that combat was coming, or else the fight would be over by the time he got all his defenses up. And if he wanted to do it more than once per day, he wouldn't be able to manifest very much else. To use the augmented power it'd be a total of 8 pp, three for the original manifestation and five for the second stat bump. I don't think you can cast AA twice back to back...otherwise there wouldn't be a need for an augmentation. It saves 6 seconds, one turn, if it means hanging back one more turn for an AC bump I think he'd do it. You're right though, if he didn't buff right before battle he's be severly hindered in but he might be using his psion as a buff class and his monk as his battle class. I'm thinking the augment was meant to be a balancing cost for the power. +4 to a stat is alot...even temporarily. That's 2 potions, two third lvl spells, in other words a big drain on anyone but a manifester. The augmentation cost is reeeeally high for a first level power, you'd have to have 8 lvls in psion to manifest two at the same time which is about the level you'd be a little less careful about reserving your third lvl spells. So it's more even that way. Defensive Precog is still what I'd choose over adding to my cha in his case. +2 to AC and all my saves? Can't beat that...and finding something you can give yourself an insight bonus with...talk about an all around cool power. He may waste his power points on it but if he's got an AC of 29 he may have built his character around it. It sounds like that might be the case. Anticipating that one combat a game is normal for their games, that's what I'd do. It's easy to leave your powers up a little longer than you should...especially if he thinks he can get away with it. Dating the dm may provide him that window. Especially if he's not spending turns at the start of battle buffing or at the very least declaring he's manifesting power before he knows a battle is coming. There's a whole host of ways he could pull it off, I just illustrated one that's not cheating. I suggest poking him with a sharp stick until he tells you...but this may be considered barbaric in some circles. :)
CrimsonDeath 01-01-08, 06:13 AM	I don't think you can cast AA twice back to back...otherwise there wouldn't be a need for an augmentation. It saves 6 seconds, one turn, if it means hanging back one more turn for an AC bump I think he'd do it I don't see why you couldn't manifest it twice and choose a different ability score the second time. The purpose of the augment is exactly as you said: to save time by boosting two ability scores with the same action. +4 to a stat is alot...even temporarily. That's 2 potions, two third lvl spells, in other words a big drain on anyone but a manifester. I'm not sure where you got "two third level spells". For most characters, Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Eagle's Splendor, Fox's Cunning, and Owl's Wisdom are level 2 spells, and I haven't seen anyone who casts them as level 3 spells.
Solstysse 01-01-08, 01:47 PM	Hmmm...sorry they are second level spells. You're right. I'm just trying to make sure it's balanced. The Psion would have 23 pp (before he added any racial bonuses), 9 powers known, 5 first level and 4 second level. Up against a wizard of the same int, the wizard would have 4 zero level, 4 first level and 2 second level spells. I'd go ahead and relate the psion to a wizard because they work off the same stat, only know a certain list of powers/spells and such. At best, even if he went above and beyond and specialized in transmutation (bears endurance/eagles splendor/etc school) he'd still only have 3, at best, second level spells to which he'd have to devote those buff spells to...whereas the psion could buff all of his stats once and still have pp's left over. But for a better comparision lets equate a cantrip to an unaugmented first level power (cost: 1pp) and a first level spell to an first level power augmented with one pp, (cost: 2pp) and a third level spell to a second level unaugmented power (cost: 3pp). So lets manifest powers equal to a specialized wizards spells per day, giving us a total of 24 power points. This is acceptable because most people who chose psionic classes chose a psionic races as a base...giving them at least one or two pp's at first level in addition to their normal total. So they are balanced for the purposes of manifesting AA twice...yay. (plus it says you can manifest a power twice in the eph as long as the power doesn't state it can't be done, like in vigor) So you've got me there but I really appreciate your pointing it out because a nice thought exercise came of it. (And a healthy round of "psion are overpowered!" arguments spewing forth from my husband LoL) Also we didn't think about him carrying around potions to add to AC...50 gp for a sheild of faith +2 totally saves power points. Especially since putting AA up against a potion of bear's endurance at 300gp a pop...that makes 1pp = to 100gp. Ouch. Why do that when you could just buy a potion and get a +2 at a rate of 25gp a point of AC...vs 150gp per point with AA. A replenishing supply of PP everday is awesome and gp's are hard to come by sometimes but at 50 it's a bargin. I still think Cheaty McCheaterson is walking around fully buffed in some way all the time and just not saying anything.