2nd edition psionic rules? [Archive] - Wizards Community

2nd edition psionic rules? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
techwarrior
09-10-07, 09:26 AM I would like to incorporate psionic powers into a 2nd edition campaign and I would like to know how they worked in 2nd edtion. I don't have any rulebooks on the subject and I would prefer to use 2nd edition rules rather than 3rd edition. Can anyone tell me how psionic powers worked in 2nd edition or point me to a website that would explain that. I would really hate to buy an old 2nd edition psionic rulebook, I just need to know the basics.
Lycanthromancer
09-10-07, 09:54 AM The basics of 2e powers?

Step 1: Get a brick.
Step 2: Put your hand on your desk.
Step 3: Smash.

That's about the gist of it, alright.
Bacris
09-10-07, 10:01 AM Just FYI - you can get the whole 2nd Ed Psionics rulebook for $5

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=16891&it=1
Tempest Stormwind
09-10-07, 10:13 AM Powers based off of random chance rolls, so by definition they unbalance the game (all ye who roll lucky gain some powers, all ye who do not are forsaken).

Disintegrate and Teleport at level 1.

Blow yourself up on natural 1s.

Dozens of rolls to open a target's mind, all in a very short span of time ("Oh for ****'s sake, the psionicist's turn again? I'll be in Maui.")

I'm exaggerating, but only slightly.
InkBlot
09-10-07, 10:27 AM You would be far better off converting the 3.5 rules to 2nd Edition, than using the actual 2nd Edition rules.
Varl
09-10-07, 10:35 AM You would be far better off converting the 3.5 rules to 2nd Edition, than using the actual 2nd Edition rules.

Inkblot's right, techwarrior. That's what I'm working on right now. What I'm working on is not a complete 3.5 mutation to 2e, but close. I'm a fan of most things 2e too, but its psionics system is just abyssmal.
DarkTouch
09-10-07, 11:04 AM I don't think that 2e psionics are all THAT bad. They're definitely not 3.0 psionics for instance... but like a lot of 2e stuff, flavor is better than mechanics and don't use the Player Option stuff. There is stuff in there like MTHAC0 which you don't want to mess with.

Anyway, the basics from the brown book:
There is one psionic class called the Psionicist. Mechanically, in terms of hit dice and attacks, saves, armor and weapons.. the Psionicist is more or less equivalent to a rogue. For racial limits.. I believe Halflings and Dwarves make the best psionicists with elves and gnomes doing worse.

In terms of Psionics themselves:
You get a pool of power called PSP (Psionic Strength Points) that you have to spend to use your powers and to maintain your powers. So most powers have an activation cost and a maintenance cost, though some instant powers only have the activation cost. PSP recover on a by hour basis, depending on what you're doing. So falling asleep for an hour recovers a bunch of PSP while sitting in a tavern and drinking recovers a different amount.

Much like 3rd edition, psionic powers are divided up by Discipline. Clairsentience(Senses), Psychokinesis(Moving stuff), Biometabolism(shape shifting and healing), Telepathy(Mind Reading), Psychoportation(Teleporting), and Metapsionics(For modifying your powers or making psionic items mostly). Under each Discipline are two levels of powers.. Sciences are the more impressive powers and Devotions are the less universally useful powers. There's a chart for advancement that says when you get Disciplines, Sciences, and Devotions. There's also a formula about having to have the majority of your sciences and devotions from your first discipline.

Powers (Sciences and Devotions) are treated like Non-weapon proficencies. Anytime you want to use one, you need to make a roll. Its a modification of of your ability score annd trying to hit the 'sweet spot'.. ie roll low.. but not too low. But some powers are harder to adtivate than others depending on your ability score. Also, if you roll a 1 you generally have something bad happen to you, depending on the nature of the power. If you're using disintegrate that could mean blowing yourself up. If you're using Chamealeon to blend into the foliage, it could mean turning purple with polka dots. The reverse is if you roll your 'Power Score' (Highest dollar value without going over) then your power works extra well.. Disintegrate does extra damage while for Chameleon you don't have to pay the maintenance cost to continue being invisible. You have a 5% chance of either of those options happening.

Psionicist aren't the only beings who can use psionics. There is the option of developing a Wild Talent which is a percentage chance based on your mental ability scores. If you roll high, you get to roll against a random table to figure out what you got. If you roll really well you can get more than one. You get also get enough PSP to use your wild tallent once and then you have to rest. (You might get a few extra for maintaining a power that works better when maintained). Monsters are more or less considered to have Wild Talents as well.

Finally, Psionic combat was a special thing for the Telepath discipline. Most telepathy powers rely on making contact with another mind. There is a contact power for doing that to a non-psionic mind. Other psionic beings are resistant to this and there are 5 psionic attack modes (a special designation of Telepathy sciences and disciplines) and 5 psionic defense modes (something all psionicists and most psionic monsters got in addition to their normal powers). There was a nifty little chart about what defenses worked better against which attacks.. all of which amounted to a rock/paper/scissor fight that expended a bunch of your PSP and happened more or less outside of normal combat. I think you could make like 6 psionic attacks in one normal round.

My two favorite things about 2e were:
1. Flavor - Psionics were DIFFERENT from magic.. and felt different. Most 3e versions that have tried to duplicate this have gone with skills and feats to try and replicate this. My favorite of these is probably the Complete Psychic's Handbook, a 3rd party book that became the basis for the Blue Rose/True 20 magic system.

2. Stat Block - Adding a psionic stat block to a monster was EASY. In fact they did it in the back of the Psionicist Handbook. There is a page or more of Demons and Devils from the Monstrous Compendiums with a quick 3 line entry.. PSP, Sciences, Devotions, Attack Modes/Defense Modes.. done.

Hope this helps.
techwarrior
09-10-07, 11:18 AM Just FYI - you can get the whole 2nd Ed Psionics rulebook for $5

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=16891&it=1

yes I have looked at their webpage unfortunately they only accept visa or mastercard. I have only american express and discover :weep:
Lycanthromancer
09-10-07, 11:21 AM So...not Everywhere You Want to Be?
Batshido
09-10-07, 03:47 PM 2nd Edition Psionics; Down that way lies madness.
calronmoonflower
09-11-07, 02:38 AM Blow yourself up on natural 1s.

Natural 20, not a 1.

Away way the had to pay both to use and then again each round to maintain powers. You also recovered psionic strength points by the hour and the amount varied on your actions.

Powers also didn't automatically work. If you rolled to high on you check it wouldn't work and cost less the the full PsP. If you roll a 20 you not only automatically fail, you also get a bad result. On 1s the power works, but often with a drawback. If you roll your power score you get an enhanced effect.

Also there is no magic/psionics transparency. :eek:
RadicalTaoist
09-11-07, 09:27 AM If 3.0 Psionics makes your head asplode, dare I ask what 2e psionics does?
Tempest Stormwind
09-11-07, 10:17 AM Ah, right, sorry; I'd equated natural 1 to failure for so long I forgot which roll was the blow-self-up indicator. 2e had a lot of "Is this a good time to roll high or low?" going on.

If 3.0 Psionics makes your head asplode, dare I ask what 2e psionics does?

Bleed profusely from the groin.
Dead_Weasel
09-12-07, 08:13 PM Bleed profusely from the groin.

THEN your head explodes.
Zémobiel
09-12-07, 08:27 PM Powers based off of random chance rolls, so by definition they unbalance the game (all ye who roll lucky gain some powers, all ye who do not are forsaken).

Disintegrate and Teleport at level 1.

Blow yourself up on natural 1s.

Dozens of rolls to open a target's mind, all in a very short span of time ("Oh for ****'s sake, the psionicist's turn again? I'll be in Maui.")

I'm exaggerating, but only slightly.

To true... A level 1 psionic have totally broken a game i had run back in time of the 2nd. Was running the quest in Shadowdale book from the gray box FR. (it was a 4 level quest if i remember, i had a group of 6... well the psionic have nearly done the quest all by her self
Sagetim
09-12-07, 09:10 PM To true... A level 1 psionic have totally broken a game i had run back in time of the 2nd. Was running the quest in Shadowdale book from the gray box FR. (it was a 4 level quest if i remember, i had a group of 6... well the psionic have nearly done the quest all by her self

That just means they knew how to run their character. And that some box adventures aren't really all that hard. In fact, I remember one time a dm incorperated a 'trap' from a supplement of traps and stuff, and when we finished solving it, we slapped the crap out of him for putting it into the game. That book was never again used.
MnemonicSV
09-13-07, 06:14 AM Did he want 2E psionics before or after the "MAC" revision (IE: Dark Sun)?

Wow, those were the days. What Psionicist didn't take Crystal Focus and Power Manipulation (NWP)? Or Empower + Receptacle? It was broken and beautiful.

Wormhole to the center of the sun.... kaboom! Damn, I miss that.
Jaid
09-13-07, 04:52 PM Did he want 2E psionics before or after the "MAC" revision (IE: Dark Sun)?

Wow, those were the days. What Psionicist didn't take Crystal Focus and Power Manipulation (NWP)? Or Empower + Receptacle? It was broken and beautiful.

Wormhole to the center of the sun.... kaboom! Damn, I miss that.

my personal favorite broken thing from 2nd edition psionics (read: the most broken strategy i have ever conceived) is to empower a whole lot of stuff. give them all convergence (and whatever metapsionic powers you can just to boost their PSP)

now then, you all link up (note: one of the items can do convergence for you, and maintain it, so you can even have this active while sleeping) and whenever someone tries to do something, you get as many actions to completely obliterate the poor sap as you have items. on an interesting side note, this also has the effect of making you nigh-invulnerable to anything you can defend against with psionic defense modes (everything in the convergence can defend against each attack, if any one individual is successfull, they all are, and you can keep that roll for the rest of the round if you need). it also gives the entire group a lot of PSP to play around with.

it's kinda like the synchronicity + affinity field + bestow power thing from 3.5, except probably even more broken.

(note: perhaps even scarier is that if your DM interprates certain metapsionic powers to interact with empower in a certain way, you can turn everyone you know, psionic or not, into the exact same thing)
Tsuul
09-13-07, 06:10 PM D&D psionics is like the highlander movies.
There is no 2nd.

I love darksun, but there still is no second edition psionics.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
techwarrior 09-10-07, 09:26 AM	I would like to incorporate psionic powers into a 2nd edition campaign and I would like to know how they worked in 2nd edtion. I don't have any rulebooks on the subject and I would prefer to use 2nd edition rules rather than 3rd edition. Can anyone tell me how psionic powers worked in 2nd edition or point me to a website that would explain that. I would really hate to buy an old 2nd edition psionic rulebook, I just need to know the basics.
Lycanthromancer 09-10-07, 09:54 AM	The basics of 2e powers? Step 1: Get a brick. Step 2: Put your hand on your desk. Step 3: Smash. That's about the gist of it, alright.
Bacris 09-10-07, 10:01 AM	Just FYI - you can get the whole 2nd Ed Psionics rulebook for $5 http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=16891&it=1
Tempest Stormwind 09-10-07, 10:13 AM	Powers based off of random chance rolls, so by definition they unbalance the game (all ye who roll lucky gain some powers, all ye who do not are forsaken). Disintegrate and Teleport at level 1. Blow yourself up on natural 1s. Dozens of rolls to open a target's mind, all in a very short span of time ("Oh for ****'s sake, the psionicist's turn again? I'll be in Maui.") I'm exaggerating, but only slightly.
InkBlot 09-10-07, 10:27 AM	You would be far better off converting the 3.5 rules to 2nd Edition, than using the actual 2nd Edition rules.
Varl 09-10-07, 10:35 AM	You would be far better off converting the 3.5 rules to 2nd Edition, than using the actual 2nd Edition rules. Inkblot's right, techwarrior. That's what I'm working on right now. What I'm working on is not a complete 3.5 mutation to 2e, but close. I'm a fan of most things 2e too, but its psionics system is just abyssmal.
DarkTouch 09-10-07, 11:04 AM	I don't think that 2e psionics are all THAT bad. They're definitely not 3.0 psionics for instance... but like a lot of 2e stuff, flavor is better than mechanics and don't use the Player Option stuff. There is stuff in there like MTHAC0 which you don't want to mess with. Anyway, the basics from the brown book: There is one psionic class called the Psionicist. Mechanically, in terms of hit dice and attacks, saves, armor and weapons.. the Psionicist is more or less equivalent to a rogue. For racial limits.. I believe Halflings and Dwarves make the best psionicists with elves and gnomes doing worse. In terms of Psionics themselves: You get a pool of power called PSP (Psionic Strength Points) that you have to spend to use your powers and to maintain your powers. So most powers have an activation cost and a maintenance cost, though some instant powers only have the activation cost. PSP recover on a by hour basis, depending on what you're doing. So falling asleep for an hour recovers a bunch of PSP while sitting in a tavern and drinking recovers a different amount. Much like 3rd edition, psionic powers are divided up by Discipline. Clairsentience(Senses), Psychokinesis(Moving stuff), Biometabolism(shape shifting and healing), Telepathy(Mind Reading), Psychoportation(Teleporting), and Metapsionics(For modifying your powers or making psionic items mostly). Under each Discipline are two levels of powers.. Sciences are the more impressive powers and Devotions are the less universally useful powers. There's a chart for advancement that says when you get Disciplines, Sciences, and Devotions. There's also a formula about having to have the majority of your sciences and devotions from your first discipline. Powers (Sciences and Devotions) are treated like Non-weapon proficencies. Anytime you want to use one, you need to make a roll. Its a modification of of your ability score annd trying to hit the 'sweet spot'.. ie roll low.. but not too low. But some powers are harder to adtivate than others depending on your ability score. Also, if you roll a 1 you generally have something bad happen to you, depending on the nature of the power. If you're using disintegrate that could mean blowing yourself up. If you're using Chamealeon to blend into the foliage, it could mean turning purple with polka dots. The reverse is if you roll your 'Power Score' (Highest dollar value without going over) then your power works extra well.. Disintegrate does extra damage while for Chameleon you don't have to pay the maintenance cost to continue being invisible. You have a 5% chance of either of those options happening. Psionicist aren't the only beings who can use psionics. There is the option of developing a Wild Talent which is a percentage chance based on your mental ability scores. If you roll high, you get to roll against a random table to figure out what you got. If you roll really well you can get more than one. You get also get enough PSP to use your wild tallent once and then you have to rest. (You might get a few extra for maintaining a power that works better when maintained). Monsters are more or less considered to have Wild Talents as well. Finally, Psionic combat was a special thing for the Telepath discipline. Most telepathy powers rely on making contact with another mind. There is a contact power for doing that to a non-psionic mind. Other psionic beings are resistant to this and there are 5 psionic attack modes (a special designation of Telepathy sciences and disciplines) and 5 psionic defense modes (something all psionicists and most psionic monsters got in addition to their normal powers). There was a nifty little chart about what defenses worked better against which attacks.. all of which amounted to a rock/paper/scissor fight that expended a bunch of your PSP and happened more or less outside of normal combat. I think you could make like 6 psionic attacks in one normal round. My two favorite things about 2e were: 1. Flavor - Psionics were DIFFERENT from magic.. and felt different. Most 3e versions that have tried to duplicate this have gone with skills and feats to try and replicate this. My favorite of these is probably the Complete Psychic's Handbook, a 3rd party book that became the basis for the Blue Rose/True 20 magic system. 2. Stat Block - Adding a psionic stat block to a monster was EASY. In fact they did it in the back of the Psionicist Handbook. There is a page or more of Demons and Devils from the Monstrous Compendiums with a quick 3 line entry.. PSP, Sciences, Devotions, Attack Modes/Defense Modes.. done. Hope this helps.
techwarrior 09-10-07, 11:18 AM	Just FYI - you can get the whole 2nd Ed Psionics rulebook for $5 http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=16891&it=1 yes I have looked at their webpage unfortunately they only accept visa or mastercard. I have only american express and discover :weep:
Lycanthromancer 09-10-07, 11:21 AM	So...not Everywhere You Want to Be?
Batshido 09-10-07, 03:47 PM	2nd Edition Psionics; Down that way lies madness.
calronmoonflower 09-11-07, 02:38 AM	Blow yourself up on natural 1s. Natural 20, not a 1. Away way the had to pay both to use and then again each round to maintain powers. You also recovered psionic strength points by the hour and the amount varied on your actions. Powers also didn't automatically work. If you rolled to high on you check it wouldn't work and cost less the the full PsP. If you roll a 20 you not only automatically fail, you also get a bad result. On 1s the power works, but often with a drawback. If you roll your power score you get an enhanced effect. Also there is no magic/psionics transparency. :eek:
RadicalTaoist 09-11-07, 09:27 AM	If 3.0 Psionics makes your head asplode, dare I ask what 2e psionics does?
Tempest Stormwind 09-11-07, 10:17 AM	Ah, right, sorry; I'd equated natural 1 to failure for so long I forgot which roll was the blow-self-up indicator. 2e had a lot of "Is this a good time to roll high or low?" going on. If 3.0 Psionics makes your head asplode, dare I ask what 2e psionics does? Bleed profusely from the groin.
Dead_Weasel 09-12-07, 08:13 PM	Bleed profusely from the groin. THEN your head explodes.
Zémobiel 09-12-07, 08:27 PM	Powers based off of random chance rolls, so by definition they unbalance the game (all ye who roll lucky gain some powers, all ye who do not are forsaken). Disintegrate and Teleport at level 1. Blow yourself up on natural 1s. Dozens of rolls to open a target's mind, all in a very short span of time ("Oh for ****'s sake, the psionicist's turn again? I'll be in Maui.") I'm exaggerating, but only slightly. To true... A level 1 psionic have totally broken a game i had run back in time of the 2nd. Was running the quest in Shadowdale book from the gray box FR. (it was a 4 level quest if i remember, i had a group of 6... well the psionic have nearly done the quest all by her self
Sagetim 09-12-07, 09:10 PM	To true... A level 1 psionic have totally broken a game i had run back in time of the 2nd. Was running the quest in Shadowdale book from the gray box FR. (it was a 4 level quest if i remember, i had a group of 6... well the psionic have nearly done the quest all by her self That just means they knew how to run their character. And that some box adventures aren't really all that hard. In fact, I remember one time a dm incorperated a 'trap' from a supplement of traps and stuff, and when we finished solving it, we slapped the crap out of him for putting it into the game. That book was never again used.
MnemonicSV 09-13-07, 06:14 AM	Did he want 2E psionics before or after the "MAC" revision (IE: Dark Sun)? Wow, those were the days. What Psionicist didn't take Crystal Focus and Power Manipulation (NWP)? Or Empower + Receptacle? It was broken and beautiful. Wormhole to the center of the sun.... kaboom! Damn, I miss that.
Jaid 09-13-07, 04:52 PM	Did he want 2E psionics before or after the "MAC" revision (IE: Dark Sun)? Wow, those were the days. What Psionicist didn't take Crystal Focus and Power Manipulation (NWP)? Or Empower + Receptacle? It was broken and beautiful. Wormhole to the center of the sun.... kaboom! Damn, I miss that. my personal favorite broken thing from 2nd edition psionics (read: the most broken strategy i have ever conceived) is to empower a whole lot of stuff. give them all convergence (and whatever metapsionic powers you can just to boost their PSP) now then, you all link up (note: one of the items can do convergence for you, and maintain it, so you can even have this active while sleeping) and whenever someone tries to do something, you get as many actions to completely obliterate the poor sap as you have items. on an interesting side note, this also has the effect of making you nigh-invulnerable to anything you can defend against with psionic defense modes (everything in the convergence can defend against each attack, if any one individual is successfull, they all are, and you can keep that roll for the rest of the round if you need). it also gives the entire group a lot of PSP to play around with. it's kinda like the synchronicity + affinity field + bestow power thing from 3.5, except probably even more broken. (note: perhaps even scarier is that if your DM interprates certain metapsionic powers to interact with empower in a certain way, you can turn everyone you know, psionic or not, into the exact same thing)
Tsuul 09-13-07, 06:10 PM	D&D psionics is like the highlander movies. There is no 2nd. I love darksun, but there still is no second edition psionics.