+3 Flaming burst.. Psion? [Archive] - Wizards Community

+3 Flaming burst.. Psion? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Anodai
05-29-07, 06:02 PM Under the entry for metamorphosis in the XPH, one of the examples for an object a character can turn into a sword. this got me thinking: if a high enough level psion were to manifest metamorphosis for a long enough time, is there any way the party wizard could enchant him? If so, would he retain his enchantment while not a weapon and when he turns into a sword again.
Also, I'm not sure about this, if there is a rule against enchanting items after the are made would it be possible to turn into a lump of metal, be crafted into a sword, and enchanted?
God this is wierd.
Kiklio
05-29-07, 09:11 PM Can he pass a Craft (self) check to change into a masterwork object? Maybe he changes into the weapon and his psicrystal changes into the "masterwork component" ;)
Bacris
05-30-07, 07:15 AM This is a complete thread hijack, but Kiklio, you just made me spit my drink out with your sig, lol :)
SlanderPanic
05-30-07, 11:20 AM I think that the difficulty here is that, though you've turned into an object, you're still a creature. I would probably allow it, but only allow the item enhancements to function when you're in object form.

Don't get me wrong. A permanent +3 enhancement bonus to all attacks and damage sure would be nice. Psychic warriors would love having the suppression property, too. I can, however, see too many ways to break this, especially if combined with Vow of Poverty.
Anodai
05-30-07, 03:07 PM Hell, i never thought that the +3 flaming bonus would carry over to human form, but as fas as a character being made into a useful weapon/item, even if you have to turn into a lump of iron and be smelted down, i dont see any reason why not.
Uh... would being smelted kill you ?
InkBlot
05-30-07, 04:17 PM You would take a lot of fire damage from being smelted. It could kill you if you don't have enough HP.
Anodai
05-30-07, 05:41 PM I guess even a Psion with enough levels to hang out in metamorphosis form (1 hour/caster level) until he was turned into a sword and enchanted would be able to survive smelting. it takes multiple days to be enchanted, right?

Oog, heres a new one. suppose two psions were smelted together, then turned into a sword. then one turns back into human form, leaving the other in object form. then what?
BloodyChariot
05-30-07, 07:01 PM I guess even a Psion with enough levels to hang out in metamorphosis form (1 hour/caster level) until he was turned into a sword and enchanted would be able to survive smelting. it takes multiple days to be enchanted, right?

Oog, heres a new one. suppose two scions were smelted together, then turned into a sword. then one turns back into human form, leaving the other in object form. then what?

Two scions (http://images.google.com/images?um=1&tab=wi&client=firefox-a&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=scion)smelted together? That would be a pretty big sword. :D

That being said, the molecules of the sword that were of Psion A would be removed from the sword, leaving a really brittle and otherwise shoddy hunk of metal made from the molecules of Psion B. I doubt either would be harmed beyond the smelting/heating/hammering/temperature shock/sharpening/etc. processes to make smelted psion metal into the sword.
Kiklio
05-30-07, 10:04 PM This is a complete thread hijack, but Kiklio, you just made me spit my drink out with your sig, lol :)

Sweet. Mission accomplished. It's really a quality product that must have taken a lot of work. Thank you!
HidaAkira
05-31-07, 04:43 AM Just look out for sundering.
Gideon_Gideonson
05-31-07, 05:31 AM Well, considering a Kensai can get a +1 Throwing Returning Brilliant Energy FOOT or a +1 Throwing Returning Flaming [b]HEAD, I'd say there's no reason for it not to work :D
Anodai
05-31-07, 03:07 PM If one were to be metamorphosmelted then enchanted into an iron golem, per se, would the psion have control of his golemite body?
Lycanthromancer
05-31-07, 05:23 PM Just give your psychic warrior's psicrystal buddy a Skin of Proteus, then have him continually manifesting psionic repair damage. I'd say that you could have the thing smelted by mid-levels.

Also, an appropriate Craft: Weapons and Armorsmithing check would net you a masterwork item. Frankly, I'd rather turn my psicrystal into a suit of armor, have it enhanced, then manifest vigor + share pain on it. Mmm.

Hey, I can see a PrC in my head right now. Who wants to see this thing?
CrimsonDeath
05-31-07, 09:11 PM I'm not sure if it's in PAO or Metamorphosis, but in Flesh to Stone (or Ice or Salt), it says that damage to the resulting statue will be reflected by injuries when the character returns to normal (if ever). Similarly, I'd say that trying to smelt or forge a creature that has been polymorphed or metamorphed into an object would likewise result in damage. Furthermore, resistance to that damage would result in difficulty working the object, and healing that damage would restore the object to its unworked state.

However, since you can combine a Craft check with a Fabricate spell or power to create finished objects, I don't see why you couldn't combine it with a PAO or Metamorphosis.
InkBlot
06-01-07, 04:22 AM That's flesh to stone you're thinking of. Metamorphosis states that you keep your own HP when in the form of an object, and that "if you take damage while in the form of an object, your actual body also takes damage (but the object's hardness, if any, protects you)." Basically, being smelted would deal a whole lot of damage to you.

If it ever came up in a game I was running then I think I would call it 20d6 fire damage, 20d6 bludgeoning damage, and a DC 40 Fortitude save-or-die.
CrimsonDeath
06-01-07, 02:26 PM Yeah, I know that's "Flesh to Stone" I'm thinking of. I said it was Flesh to Stone I was thinking of. And there is, in fact, similar text in Metamorphosis, as you pointed out. And I'm saying that, if you tried to heal the damage in your object form (through Body Adjustment, for example), I, as a DM, would rule that you also undo a proportional amount of the forging process, since you're negating the damage that was done to you. (I would also calculate the damage differently, with some value I had worked out per round for 8 hours a day rather than simply a flat value.)
InkBlot
06-01-07, 03:18 PM Sorry. I misread your post last night. I thought you wrote - I'm not sure if it's in PAO or Flesh to Stone (or Ice or Salt), but it says that damage will be reflected by injuries when the character returns to normal.

Now that I've reread everything you have to say, I agree with it all. The only reason I used a flat value is because I like to keep things running quickly and smoothly at the table. After years of playing a game with a grognard DM and between 6 and 12 players (it fluctuated a lot), I've become very sensetive to anything which requires a lot of seperate rolls, checks, and math at the table. The flat damage is just my personal preference.
zzakk2to2
06-04-07, 12:16 PM get made into a bag of holding. think when unmorphed have the hole in you hand and install a zipper. even better make it a handy haversack so you can pull what you want out of your hand. become ring gates with the holes in you hands and you can shot attacks back at someone or have someone else become the other ring gate. just look at all the magic items you could be made into and what you could do.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Anodai 05-29-07, 06:02 PM	Under the entry for metamorphosis in the XPH, one of the examples for an object a character can turn into a sword. this got me thinking: if a high enough level psion were to manifest metamorphosis for a long enough time, is there any way the party wizard could enchant him? If so, would he retain his enchantment while not a weapon and when he turns into a sword again. Also, I'm not sure about this, if there is a rule against enchanting items after the are made would it be possible to turn into a lump of metal, be crafted into a sword, and enchanted? God this is wierd.
Kiklio 05-29-07, 09:11 PM	Can he pass a Craft (self) check to change into a masterwork object? Maybe he changes into the weapon and his psicrystal changes into the "masterwork component" ;)
Bacris 05-30-07, 07:15 AM	This is a complete thread hijack, but Kiklio, you just made me spit my drink out with your sig, lol :)
SlanderPanic 05-30-07, 11:20 AM	I think that the difficulty here is that, though you've turned into an object, you're still a creature. I would probably allow it, but only allow the item enhancements to function when you're in object form. Don't get me wrong. A permanent +3 enhancement bonus to all attacks and damage sure would be nice. Psychic warriors would love having the suppression property, too. I can, however, see too many ways to break this, especially if combined with Vow of Poverty.
Anodai 05-30-07, 03:07 PM	Hell, i never thought that the +3 flaming bonus would carry over to human form, but as fas as a character being made into a useful weapon/item, even if you have to turn into a lump of iron and be smelted down, i dont see any reason why not. Uh... would being smelted kill you ?
InkBlot 05-30-07, 04:17 PM	You would take a lot of fire damage from being smelted. It could kill you if you don't have enough HP.
Anodai 05-30-07, 05:41 PM	I guess even a Psion with enough levels to hang out in metamorphosis form (1 hour/caster level) until he was turned into a sword and enchanted would be able to survive smelting. it takes multiple days to be enchanted, right? Oog, heres a new one. suppose two psions were smelted together, then turned into a sword. then one turns back into human form, leaving the other in object form. then what?
BloodyChariot 05-30-07, 07:01 PM	I guess even a Psion with enough levels to hang out in metamorphosis form (1 hour/caster level) until he was turned into a sword and enchanted would be able to survive smelting. it takes multiple days to be enchanted, right? Oog, heres a new one. suppose two scions were smelted together, then turned into a sword. then one turns back into human form, leaving the other in object form. then what? Two scions (http://images.google.com/images?um=1&tab=wi&client=firefox-a&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=scion)smelted together? That would be a pretty big sword. :D That being said, the molecules of the sword that were of Psion A would be removed from the sword, leaving a really brittle and otherwise shoddy hunk of metal made from the molecules of Psion B. I doubt either would be harmed beyond the smelting/heating/hammering/temperature shock/sharpening/etc. processes to make smelted psion metal into the sword.
Kiklio 05-30-07, 10:04 PM	This is a complete thread hijack, but Kiklio, you just made me spit my drink out with your sig, lol :) Sweet. Mission accomplished. It's really a quality product that must have taken a lot of work. Thank you!
HidaAkira 05-31-07, 04:43 AM	Just look out for sundering.
Gideon_Gideonson 05-31-07, 05:31 AM	Well, considering a Kensai can get a +1 Throwing Returning Brilliant Energy FOOT or a +1 Throwing Returning Flaming [b]HEAD, I'd say there's no reason for it not to work :D
Anodai 05-31-07, 03:07 PM	If one were to be metamorphosmelted then enchanted into an iron golem, per se, would the psion have control of his golemite body?
Lycanthromancer 05-31-07, 05:23 PM	Just give your psychic warrior's psicrystal buddy a Skin of Proteus, then have him continually manifesting psionic repair damage. I'd say that you could have the thing smelted by mid-levels. Also, an appropriate Craft: Weapons and Armorsmithing check would net you a masterwork item. Frankly, I'd rather turn my psicrystal into a suit of armor, have it enhanced, then manifest vigor + share pain on it. Mmm. Hey, I can see a PrC in my head right now. Who wants to see this thing?
CrimsonDeath 05-31-07, 09:11 PM	I'm not sure if it's in PAO or Metamorphosis, but in Flesh to Stone (or Ice or Salt), it says that damage to the resulting statue will be reflected by injuries when the character returns to normal (if ever). Similarly, I'd say that trying to smelt or forge a creature that has been polymorphed or metamorphed into an object would likewise result in damage. Furthermore, resistance to that damage would result in difficulty working the object, and healing that damage would restore the object to its unworked state. However, since you can combine a Craft check with a Fabricate spell or power to create finished objects, I don't see why you couldn't combine it with a PAO or Metamorphosis.
InkBlot 06-01-07, 04:22 AM	That's flesh to stone you're thinking of. Metamorphosis states that you keep your own HP when in the form of an object, and that "if you take damage while in the form of an object, your actual body also takes damage (but the object's hardness, if any, protects you)." Basically, being smelted would deal a whole lot of damage to you. If it ever came up in a game I was running then I think I would call it 20d6 fire damage, 20d6 bludgeoning damage, and a DC 40 Fortitude save-or-die.
CrimsonDeath 06-01-07, 02:26 PM	Yeah, I know that's "Flesh to Stone" I'm thinking of. I said it was Flesh to Stone I was thinking of. And there is, in fact, similar text in Metamorphosis, as you pointed out. And I'm saying that, if you tried to heal the damage in your object form (through Body Adjustment, for example), I, as a DM, would rule that you also undo a proportional amount of the forging process, since you're negating the damage that was done to you. (I would also calculate the damage differently, with some value I had worked out per round for 8 hours a day rather than simply a flat value.)
InkBlot 06-01-07, 03:18 PM	Sorry. I misread your post last night. I thought you wrote - I'm not sure if it's in PAO or Flesh to Stone (or Ice or Salt), but it says that damage will be reflected by injuries when the character returns to normal. Now that I've reread everything you have to say, I agree with it all. The only reason I used a flat value is because I like to keep things running quickly and smoothly at the table. After years of playing a game with a grognard DM and between 6 and 12 players (it fluctuated a lot), I've become very sensetive to anything which requires a lot of seperate rolls, checks, and math at the table. The flat damage is just my personal preference.
zzakk2to2 06-04-07, 12:16 PM	get made into a bag of holding. think when unmorphed have the hole in you hand and install a zipper. even better make it a handy haversack so you can pull what you want out of your hand. become ring gates with the holes in you hands and you can shot attacks back at someone or have someone else become the other ring gate. just look at all the magic items you could be made into and what you could do.