3.0 Psionics [Archive] - Wizards Community

3.0 Psionics [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dvus
08-26-07, 10:42 AM I have the Psionics handbook that I assume is from 3.0. Will this book work with a 3.5 game? Did the psyonics change that much from 3.0 to 3.5 to warrant buying another book (the XPH)?

D
Toxic_Shaman
08-26-07, 10:47 AM 3.5 Psionics is an enormous improvement, 3.0 was pretty bad. Check out the SRD for the 3.5 rules:

http://www.d20srd.org/
JoshuaZ
08-26-07, 10:47 AM I have the Psionics handbook that I assume is from 3.0. Will this book work with a 3.5 game? Did the psyonics change that much from 3.0 to 3.5 to warrant buying another book (the XPH)?

D

Yes, psionics did change a lot. No, you don't need to buy a new book. Almost all the XPH material is available online on the SRD. See http://www.d20srd.org/ .
Dvus
08-26-07, 10:54 AM Great, thanks! I'll definitely check that out!

D
Dvus
08-26-07, 10:58 AM So, with the 3.5 SRD, does that make my 3.0 book completely useless?

D
Lycanthromancer
08-26-07, 11:00 AM The 3.0 book is completely useless as-is. Sorry. It's horrible.

It's even worse than Complete Psionic.
Dvus
08-26-07, 11:14 AM The 3.0 book is completely useless as-is

Ha! It's a good thing I got it used then, huh...

Well, it does have some cool art to look at. There's always that.

D
Artector
08-26-07, 11:49 AM I'd suggest reading this thread too. It should prove helpful.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=486266
Nephlite
08-26-07, 12:33 PM So, with the 3.5 SRD, does that make my 3.0 book completely useless?

D

The only use is looking for possible powers to research and convert to 3.5 if not in 3.5.

3.0 had some decent powers, but over all not good. Remember you have seperate DC based on stats. You need 11 in all stats (at least I mean) to use every discipline.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi
08-26-07, 06:48 PM So, with the 3.5 SRD, does that make my 3.0 book completely useless?

D

It doesn't "make" it useless. That would suppose the 3.0 Psionics Handbook was ever even slightly useful. Please recycle.
Lycanthromancer
08-26-07, 07:08 PM Please recycle.Just don't let it touch anything organic. The rot might spread.
DrowBattlemind
08-26-07, 08:03 PM Whoa, the 3.0 Psi book DOES have a good use, it can be a hard surface to keep your character sheet from getting crinkled and rumpled while you fill it out with the 3.5 psionics data.

OH, and if you lack the Complete Psionic for the Stygian Disruption power, there's the Sever The Tie power in the 3.0 book, good against the undead!

Yeah, I know... one power... :rolleyes:
Dvus
08-26-07, 08:18 PM Yeah, I know... one power...

Well, it's already on my shelf, so I might as well get all the use I can from it, right?

And thanks for the SRD and the thread link. Great resources!

D
Lycanthromancer
08-26-07, 09:16 PM NOOOOOOOOOooooooooo...
Tempest Stormwind
08-26-07, 10:11 PM Well, it's already on my shelf, so I might as well get all the use I can from it, right?

You could get more use out of AD&D books than the 3.0 psi handbook. Hell, you could get more use out of The CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics in your games than the 3.0 psi handbook.

The only reason I still have mine is that no one wants to buy it. At one point, I used it to hold up my couch. The odd part was (and I've mentioned this before), no matter what games were played in that room, whoever sat on that couch would be plauged with Suck. If we were doing D&D, that couch would attract natural 1s. If we were playing Smash Bros, people on that couch would not be able to recover, ever (and would routinely get Goldeen if they were fortunate enough to grab a pokeball). If we were playing Settlers of Catan, I don't care if you were on all 8s and 6s, your numbers would never be rolled (or they would be rolled all the time and you would routinely roll a 7; it depended on the day). We eventually tested it deeper by playing games where all contestants were on that couch; whoever was on the side the psi HB was holding up would get worse luck.

Do you want that in your life? Don't bother answering, you don't.
AntiDjinn
08-26-07, 10:41 PM So, with the 3.5 SRD, does that make my 3.0 book completely useless?

D
It was pretty much useless in 3.0, why would that change for 3.5?
Someone here should have the link for the ritual of cleansing you should undertake for having touched the PsiHB. After the taint has been removed, you will be ready for the XPH.

Either buy the book or read the FAQ near the top of this forum before the SRD. Many who rely on the SRD alone wind up here asking what powers are available for a first level psion, how many points they can spend on a power, and if their manifester levels stack.
Dvus
08-27-07, 01:16 AM I read through the SRD psionics section and read through the FAQ that was posted. I think I have a pretty good grasp (conceptually) of psionics. I'm sure all my questions will come out when I actually try to play them.

As far as any ritual of cleansing, we'll just see if it affects me at all. I like to say I'm not superstitious, but that's a load of horse-poop. I'm as superstitious as the next guy; maybe a bit more.

I'll let you know if this book is cursed.

D
Optimator
08-27-07, 03:44 PM [snip]
Do you want that in your life? Don't bother answering, you don't.

:bigeyes: Damn, dude.
elondir
08-27-07, 04:12 PM I thought Thrall was a good power, if you don't want to take the thrallherd class.
Tempest Stormwind
08-27-07, 04:32 PM I thought Thrall was a good power, if you don't want to take the thrallherd class.

And Psionic Dominate augments to *nearly* that point in the XPH with the errata. Furthermore, Hyperconscious (by Bruce Cordell) adds one extra augment to Psionic Dominate that he dubs "utter thrall" -- which, incidentally, raises Psionic Dominate's effect to a 9th level equivalent and is permanent, effectively transforming Psionic Dominate into Thrall.
Millenia
08-27-07, 04:43 PM <Stuff>

Do you want that in your life? Don't bother answering, you don't.
Have you tried burning it, or are you afraid of the fumes?
Lycanthromancer
08-27-07, 04:46 PM BURNINATE!
Seldriss
08-27-07, 05:28 PM Personaly, I like the psionic talents, 0-level powers, equivalent to 0 level spells.
And I prefer the psionic combat as per 3.0, with attack and defense modes separate from the powers.
But that's me :rolleyes:
kyeudo
08-27-07, 05:57 PM Personaly, I like the psionic talents, 0-level powers, equivalent to 0 level spells.
And I prefer the psionic combat as per 3.0, with attack and defense modes separate from the powers.
But that's me :rolleyes:

Blasphemer!

On a more serious note, Talents would be cool if they worked inside the 3.5 psionics rules, but I haven't seen any 3.5 conversion that I liked.
Toxic_Shaman
08-27-07, 05:59 PM Personaly, I like the psionic talents, 0-level powers, equivalent to 0 level spells.
And I prefer the psionic combat as per 3.0, with attack and defense modes separate from the powers.
But that's me :rolleyes:

The Psionic Combat rules in 3.0 were what made it very dangerous to be a Psychic Warrior.
Salla
08-27-07, 06:18 PM The irony of 3.0 Psionics Handbook ... the powers sucked, but the psychic combat was pretty well broken. :)
AntiDjinn
08-28-07, 01:56 AM My loathing of the 3.0 psionic combat system is brobdingnagian. I really think it was introduced to see who failed math. To consider spending your points on combat modes instead of on powers was like having a dollar and asking if it would be more efficient to buy a roll of toilet paper or simply to use the dollar as toilet paper. Yeah, that was in my sig for a while.

The worst part of the system (IMHO) is that characters and monsters used different rules. A character had to pay for his combat modes with power points, psionic monsters used their modes for free. When characters took stat damage from psionic combat, in addition to the usual effects of lowered abilities, they lost use of powers keyed to that stat. A psion whose Dex was drained below 15, for example, could not manifest Teleportation. When monsters took stat damage they never lost the use of their psi-like abilities. Draining a monster's Dex did not ever stop it from teleporting, unless you took it all the way to zero. So using an attack mode against a monster with a psionic template produced different results than it would against the same monster with psionic character levels, in a manner inexplicable to the PC launching the attack.

If you really must have psionic combat as a system separate from powers, then pick up Hyperconscious and use Mindscapes. It passes all my tests for a good psi combat system: It doesn't waste your points, it is easy (you can memorize it and never refer to the book again), provides tangible benefits without being overpowered, and most important: Your PC and the DM's monster follow the same rules and get the same outcomes.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dvus 08-26-07, 10:42 AM	I have the Psionics handbook that I assume is from 3.0. Will this book work with a 3.5 game? Did the psyonics change that much from 3.0 to 3.5 to warrant buying another book (the XPH)? D
Toxic_Shaman 08-26-07, 10:47 AM	3.5 Psionics is an enormous improvement, 3.0 was pretty bad. Check out the SRD for the 3.5 rules: http://www.d20srd.org/
JoshuaZ 08-26-07, 10:47 AM	I have the Psionics handbook that I assume is from 3.0. Will this book work with a 3.5 game? Did the psyonics change that much from 3.0 to 3.5 to warrant buying another book (the XPH)? D Yes, psionics did change a lot. No, you don't need to buy a new book. Almost all the XPH material is available online on the SRD. See http://www.d20srd.org/ .
Dvus 08-26-07, 10:54 AM	Great, thanks! I'll definitely check that out! D
Dvus 08-26-07, 10:58 AM	So, with the 3.5 SRD, does that make my 3.0 book completely useless? D
Lycanthromancer 08-26-07, 11:00 AM	The 3.0 book is completely useless as-is. Sorry. It's horrible. It's even worse than Complete Psionic.
Dvus 08-26-07, 11:14 AM	The 3.0 book is completely useless as-is Ha! It's a good thing I got it used then, huh... Well, it does have some cool art to look at. There's always that. D
Artector 08-26-07, 11:49 AM	I'd suggest reading this thread too. It should prove helpful. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=486266
Nephlite 08-26-07, 12:33 PM	So, with the 3.5 SRD, does that make my 3.0 book completely useless? D The only use is looking for possible powers to research and convert to 3.5 if not in 3.5. 3.0 had some decent powers, but over all not good. Remember you have seperate DC based on stats. You need 11 in all stats (at least I mean) to use every discipline.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 08-26-07, 06:48 PM	So, with the 3.5 SRD, does that make my 3.0 book completely useless? D It doesn't "make" it useless. That would suppose the 3.0 Psionics Handbook was ever even slightly useful. Please recycle.
Lycanthromancer 08-26-07, 07:08 PM	Please recycle.Just don't let it touch anything organic. The rot might spread.
DrowBattlemind 08-26-07, 08:03 PM	Whoa, the 3.0 Psi book DOES have a good use, it can be a hard surface to keep your character sheet from getting crinkled and rumpled while you fill it out with the 3.5 psionics data. OH, and if you lack the Complete Psionic for the Stygian Disruption power, there's the Sever The Tie power in the 3.0 book, good against the undead! Yeah, I know... one power... :rolleyes:
Dvus 08-26-07, 08:18 PM	Yeah, I know... one power... Well, it's already on my shelf, so I might as well get all the use I can from it, right? And thanks for the SRD and the thread link. Great resources! D
Lycanthromancer 08-26-07, 09:16 PM	NOOOOOOOOOooooooooo...
Tempest Stormwind 08-26-07, 10:11 PM	Well, it's already on my shelf, so I might as well get all the use I can from it, right? You could get more use out of AD&D books than the 3.0 psi handbook. Hell, you could get more use out of The CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics in your games than the 3.0 psi handbook. The only reason I still have mine is that no one wants to buy it. At one point, I used it to hold up my couch. The odd part was (and I've mentioned this before), no matter what games were played in that room, whoever sat on that couch would be plauged with Suck. If we were doing D&D, that couch would attract natural 1s. If we were playing Smash Bros, people on that couch would not be able to recover, ever (and would routinely get Goldeen if they were fortunate enough to grab a pokeball). If we were playing Settlers of Catan, I don't care if you were on all 8s and 6s, your numbers would never be rolled (or they would be rolled all the time and you would routinely roll a 7; it depended on the day). We eventually tested it deeper by playing games where all contestants were on that couch; whoever was on the side the psi HB was holding up would get worse luck. Do you want that in your life? Don't bother answering, you don't.
AntiDjinn 08-26-07, 10:41 PM	So, with the 3.5 SRD, does that make my 3.0 book completely useless? D It was pretty much useless in 3.0, why would that change for 3.5? Someone here should have the link for the ritual of cleansing you should undertake for having touched the PsiHB. After the taint has been removed, you will be ready for the XPH. Either buy the book or read the FAQ near the top of this forum before the SRD. Many who rely on the SRD alone wind up here asking what powers are available for a first level psion, how many points they can spend on a power, and if their manifester levels stack.
Dvus 08-27-07, 01:16 AM	I read through the SRD psionics section and read through the FAQ that was posted. I think I have a pretty good grasp (conceptually) of psionics. I'm sure all my questions will come out when I actually try to play them. As far as any ritual of cleansing, we'll just see if it affects me at all. I like to say I'm not superstitious, but that's a load of horse-poop. I'm as superstitious as the next guy; maybe a bit more. I'll let you know if this book is cursed. D
Optimator 08-27-07, 03:44 PM	[snip] Do you want that in your life? Don't bother answering, you don't. :bigeyes: Damn, dude.
elondir 08-27-07, 04:12 PM	I thought Thrall was a good power, if you don't want to take the thrallherd class.
Tempest Stormwind 08-27-07, 04:32 PM	I thought Thrall was a good power, if you don't want to take the thrallherd class. And Psionic Dominate augments to nearly that point in the XPH with the errata. Furthermore, Hyperconscious (by Bruce Cordell) adds one extra augment to Psionic Dominate that he dubs "utter thrall" -- which, incidentally, raises Psionic Dominate's effect to a 9th level equivalent and is permanent, effectively transforming Psionic Dominate into Thrall.
Millenia 08-27-07, 04:43 PM	<Stuff> Do you want that in your life? Don't bother answering, you don't. Have you tried burning it, or are you afraid of the fumes?
Lycanthromancer 08-27-07, 04:46 PM	BURNINATE!
Seldriss 08-27-07, 05:28 PM	Personaly, I like the psionic talents, 0-level powers, equivalent to 0 level spells. And I prefer the psionic combat as per 3.0, with attack and defense modes separate from the powers. But that's me :rolleyes:
kyeudo 08-27-07, 05:57 PM	Personaly, I like the psionic talents, 0-level powers, equivalent to 0 level spells. And I prefer the psionic combat as per 3.0, with attack and defense modes separate from the powers. But that's me :rolleyes: Blasphemer! On a more serious note, Talents would be cool if they worked inside the 3.5 psionics rules, but I haven't seen any 3.5 conversion that I liked.
Toxic_Shaman 08-27-07, 05:59 PM	Personaly, I like the psionic talents, 0-level powers, equivalent to 0 level spells. And I prefer the psionic combat as per 3.0, with attack and defense modes separate from the powers. But that's me :rolleyes: The Psionic Combat rules in 3.0 were what made it very dangerous to be a Psychic Warrior.
Salla 08-27-07, 06:18 PM	The irony of 3.0 Psionics Handbook ... the powers sucked, but the psychic combat was pretty well broken. :)
AntiDjinn 08-28-07, 01:56 AM	My loathing of the 3.0 psionic combat system is brobdingnagian. I really think it was introduced to see who failed math. To consider spending your points on combat modes instead of on powers was like having a dollar and asking if it would be more efficient to buy a roll of toilet paper or simply to use the dollar as toilet paper. Yeah, that was in my sig for a while. The worst part of the system (IMHO) is that characters and monsters used different rules. A character had to pay for his combat modes with power points, psionic monsters used their modes for free. When characters took stat damage from psionic combat, in addition to the usual effects of lowered abilities, they lost use of powers keyed to that stat. A psion whose Dex was drained below 15, for example, could not manifest Teleportation. When monsters took stat damage they never lost the use of their psi-like abilities. Draining a monster's Dex did not ever stop it from teleporting, unless you took it all the way to zero. So using an attack mode against a monster with a psionic template produced different results than it would against the same monster with psionic character levels, in a manner inexplicable to the PC launching the attack. If you really must have psionic combat as a system separate from powers, then pick up Hyperconscious and use Mindscapes. It passes all my tests for a good psi combat system: It doesn't waste your points, it is easy (you can memorize it and never refer to the book again), provides tangible benefits without being overpowered, and most important: Your PC and the DM's monster follow the same rules and get the same outcomes.