A heavy task [Archive] - Wizards Community

A heavy task [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
animunculi
02-22-08, 07:43 AM This is it, the final push to sway my DM into allowing Psionics: he wants a nice explanation of how it works (he was unfortunately contaminated by the awful 3.0 Psionic HB) and he wants it short. :D

This where all you Psionic specialists (who doubtlessly had to face the same problem with their own DMs ;) ) can help me. Help me write a small and handy guide to understanding the new psionic mechanism!

My game is up tomorrow, so I hope I will have something for him by then.
Lokiyn
02-22-08, 07:52 AM Easy as pie.

Each Manifesting Character has a pool of points
Each power has a base cost equivalent to (power level * 2 -1)
Each time a character Manifests a power the character subtracts the cost from the pool reducing it accordingly

Its as simple as that with two addendum's

A player may never "spend" more power points on a single power that his or her manifester levelthus you could at manifester level 7 or so spend 14 power points on two powers if you quickened one but no more than 7 on each power
Certain powers can incur "fee's" above the base cost for more or enhanced effect. In that case you simply spend the points accordingly

Also See Here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=638776) for more information
Psionx
02-22-08, 08:24 AM Lokiyn is a specialist, just so you know. Now a little polishing up (trust me its nothing personal):

[list=A] A player may never "spend" more power points on a single power (that)->than his or her manifester level.

-minor grammar error

Also you might just want to say that you can spend at most 7 power points at manifester level 7. You could spend 14 power points in a single round if you manifested a quickened power and a normal power in the same round. Also because a power costs 6 extra points to be quickened, the highest level power you could quicken as a 7th level manifester would be a 1st level power because you only have 1 power point left against the manifester cap for a single power.

/nothing personal just some clarity stuff

/facepalm: should have pm'ed this...
animunculi
02-22-08, 09:11 AM This is exactly what I was looking for! Thanks to both of you :D I think the time has come when I can finally play a Psion. Woot ;)
Artector
02-22-08, 09:22 AM Don't forget to mention psionic focus.

A manifestor can make a DC 20 concentration check as a full-round action and become focused, as long as they still have 1 power point remaining. When focused you can voluntarily expend it to "Take 15" on any concentration check, at which point it must be gained again using the same process. You can only have 1 focus at any time. (barring feat/other abilities)

All meta-psionic feats require you to expend you focus, certain feats have additional effects based upon your focus and other modify holding or attaining your focus.

/logic on why it needs to be mentioned
3.0 psionic feats required a requisite PP pool to be of use, these have been replaced by focus. And furthermore to meta- your powers you must expend your focus, so by default you can only do 1 meta- a round (and only every other round).
/logic
Lycanthromancer
02-22-08, 12:58 PM So, to sum everything up in an easily-read update:

- You have a power point pool with a certain number of power points based on your race (racial bonus power points), class, manifester level, and manifesting score.

- Whenever you manifest a power, you can spend no more than your manifester level in power points for a single power (ie, a 7th level psion can spend no more than 7 power points on a single manifestation). This limit does not apply to other abilities unless stated in the ability.

- Whenever you manifest a power, you subtract its cost from your power point pool. Most powers allow you to spend additional power points for an increased effect (called augmentation). This generally increases the duration, the DC, the range, the damage dealt, or other aspects of the power, though the actual *level* of the power stays the same (for the purposes of Concentration checks and the like). These are noted in each power's description.

- Psionic focus is a special state accessible only to psionic characters. To become focused, you must make a DC 20 Concentration check that takes a full-round action to perform. You may expend your focus to 'take 15' on a Concentration check later on, or you may hold on to it (though unless you have feats or other abilities, holding your focus has no real meaning). Certain feats require you to hold onto or expend your focus to use them, such as metapsionic feats. Unless you take an epic feat, you can only expend your focus for the purposes of a single feat at a time, and unless you take a couple of other feats, you can only have a single focus at once.

- Psionic characters can wear armor without having to worry about arcane spell failure, just like divine characters (and pretty much any other character than a bard (for light armor), wizard, sorcerer, warlock, and wu jen). They don't have verbal, material, or somatic components, though they do have psionic displays, that act like a big neon sign over their heads pointing that they just manifested a power. Even if you suppress your displays (with a Concentration check), other creatures can still take AoOs against you when you manifest a power.

- Psions have disciplines that they must choose from when they first enter the class. These are separate from the discipline inherent to each power. The psion disciplines are egoist, kineticist, nomad, seer, shaper, and telepath. These psion subtypes have access to the general powers list, as well as to a special sub-list of their own. You can gain access to a single power on another discipline list by spending time and XP to research a power, taking the Expanded Knowledge feat, or by using the psychic chirurgery power (by paying someone else to spend lots of XP to teach you a power - pretty much DM-fiat-only).

-Psionic powers have levels, just like spells do. You learn one or two powers for a given manifesting level (wilders get a power every other level) of a specific power level. Once you choose to know this power, its yours and can't be changed (but see below), but since psionicists gain so few powers, the power effects tend to be much broader in scope to make up for it, which gives them much more flexibility than, say, a sorcerer (since sorcerers use the remarkably inflexible wizard list, that wasn't designed for spontaneous casting).

- Many people think that psychic reformation is overpowered, but it's a necessary part of the system. Since psionic manifesters don't get many powers, and many of the powers they can take lose efficacy over time (ie, many don't have augments), they have to have a mechanic to switch their powers known out, and to alter their builds to suit the current place in the campaign. Psychic reformation allows them to do this, although it costs them more than switching out spells for arcane spontaneous casters. If you do use it, however, you have to replace your feats, powers known, etc, with what you qualified for at that level. For instance, a power you gained at level 1 must be replaced with a 1st level power, you had to have qualified for feats at level 1, and so on.

Sound okay?
animunculi
02-24-08, 10:55 AM This conclusion is totally awesome! Thanks Lycan and all others for your effort! I am sure my DM will be amazed at how simple this can be.

I wasn't ready for a new character this game, but I promise I will have a psionic character and just show my DM how versatile they can be! :D
Bacris
02-25-08, 09:58 AM One recommendation I have is to make sure you understand the rules of your character in and out. Don't make rookie mistakes that might make your DM regret his decision :) And discuss your character concept / options with your DM so he understands what your character can do. Sometimes, DMs can be surprised by what psionics can do - better for him to know ahead of time than to decide you can't play the character anymore for balance reasons. :)
Lycanthromancer
02-25-08, 10:06 AM And make sure to look at the stickied threads at the beginning of the forum page. Give these a good thorough reading, and be ready to enlighten your DM if something comes up.

Giving the 'pantheon slaughtering wizard' link in my sig a look is a good start, too. :D
animunculi
02-26-08, 11:27 AM The worst part about this is that I know the rules pretty good (at least I think so), but the DM is quite insistant on giving on-the-spot rulings for things he dont know or is unsure of.

Also, he has a habit of misinterpreting things like AoOs but he usually gives logic the preference over rules. Other than this he is a great DM and I am sure in time he will grow to like psionics.

If not, I will DM a campaign myself and encourage the players to try psionic classes so he could just see it in action :P.
CrimsonDeath
02-26-08, 12:43 PM The worst part about this is that I know the rules pretty good (at least I think so), but the DM is quite insistant on giving on-the-spot rulings for things he dont know or is unsure of.

Then make sure he knows the relevant rules, and make note-cards with the most important ones.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
animunculi 02-22-08, 07:43 AM	This is it, the final push to sway my DM into allowing Psionics: he wants a nice explanation of how it works (he was unfortunately contaminated by the awful 3.0 Psionic HB) and he wants it short. :D This where all you Psionic specialists (who doubtlessly had to face the same problem with their own DMs ;) ) can help me. Help me write a small and handy guide to understanding the new psionic mechanism! My game is up tomorrow, so I hope I will have something for him by then.
Lokiyn 02-22-08, 07:52 AM	Easy as pie. Each Manifesting Character has a pool of points Each power has a base cost equivalent to (power level * 2 -1) Each time a character Manifests a power the character subtracts the cost from the pool reducing it accordingly Its as simple as that with two addendum's A player may never "spend" more power points on a single power that his or her manifester levelthus you could at manifester level 7 or so spend 14 power points on two powers if you quickened one but no more than 7 on each power Certain powers can incur "fee's" above the base cost for more or enhanced effect. In that case you simply spend the points accordingly Also See Here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=638776) for more information
Psionx 02-22-08, 08:24 AM	Lokiyn is a specialist, just so you know. Now a little polishing up (trust me its nothing personal): [list=A] A player may never "spend" more power points on a single power (that)->than his or her manifester level. -minor grammar error Also you might just want to say that you can spend at most 7 power points at manifester level 7. You could spend 14 power points in a single round if you manifested a quickened power and a normal power in the same round. Also because a power costs 6 extra points to be quickened, the highest level power you could quicken as a 7th level manifester would be a 1st level power because you only have 1 power point left against the manifester cap for a single power. /nothing personal just some clarity stuff /facepalm: should have pm'ed this...
animunculi 02-22-08, 09:11 AM	This is exactly what I was looking for! Thanks to both of you :D I think the time has come when I can finally play a Psion. Woot ;)
Artector 02-22-08, 09:22 AM	Don't forget to mention psionic focus. A manifestor can make a DC 20 concentration check as a full-round action and become focused, as long as they still have 1 power point remaining. When focused you can voluntarily expend it to "Take 15" on any concentration check, at which point it must be gained again using the same process. You can only have 1 focus at any time. (barring feat/other abilities) All meta-psionic feats require you to expend you focus, certain feats have additional effects based upon your focus and other modify holding or attaining your focus. /logic on why it needs to be mentioned 3.0 psionic feats required a requisite PP pool to be of use, these have been replaced by focus. And furthermore to meta- your powers you must expend your focus, so by default you can only do 1 meta- a round (and only every other round). /logic
Lycanthromancer 02-22-08, 12:58 PM	So, to sum everything up in an easily-read update: - You have a power point pool with a certain number of power points based on your race (racial bonus power points), class, manifester level, and manifesting score. - Whenever you manifest a power, you can spend no more than your manifester level in power points for a single power (ie, a 7th level psion can spend no more than 7 power points on a single manifestation). This limit does not apply to other abilities unless stated in the ability. - Whenever you manifest a power, you subtract its cost from your power point pool. Most powers allow you to spend additional power points for an increased effect (called augmentation). This generally increases the duration, the DC, the range, the damage dealt, or other aspects of the power, though the actual level of the power stays the same (for the purposes of Concentration checks and the like). These are noted in each power's description. - Psionic focus is a special state accessible only to psionic characters. To become focused, you must make a DC 20 Concentration check that takes a full-round action to perform. You may expend your focus to 'take 15' on a Concentration check later on, or you may hold on to it (though unless you have feats or other abilities, holding your focus has no real meaning). Certain feats require you to hold onto or expend your focus to use them, such as metapsionic feats. Unless you take an epic feat, you can only expend your focus for the purposes of a single feat at a time, and unless you take a couple of other feats, you can only have a single focus at once. - Psionic characters can wear armor without having to worry about arcane spell failure, just like divine characters (and pretty much any other character than a bard (for light armor), wizard, sorcerer, warlock, and wu jen). They don't have verbal, material, or somatic components, though they do have psionic displays, that act like a big neon sign over their heads pointing that they just manifested a power. Even if you suppress your displays (with a Concentration check), other creatures can still take AoOs against you when you manifest a power. - Psions have disciplines that they must choose from when they first enter the class. These are separate from the discipline inherent to each power. The psion disciplines are egoist, kineticist, nomad, seer, shaper, and telepath. These psion subtypes have access to the general powers list, as well as to a special sub-list of their own. You can gain access to a single power on another discipline list by spending time and XP to research a power, taking the Expanded Knowledge feat, or by using the psychic chirurgery power (by paying someone else to spend lots of XP to teach you a power - pretty much DM-fiat-only). -Psionic powers have levels, just like spells do. You learn one or two powers for a given manifesting level (wilders get a power every other level) of a specific power level. Once you choose to know this power, its yours and can't be changed (but see below), but since psionicists gain so few powers, the power effects tend to be much broader in scope to make up for it, which gives them much more flexibility than, say, a sorcerer (since sorcerers use the remarkably inflexible wizard list, that wasn't designed for spontaneous casting). - Many people think that psychic reformation is overpowered, but it's a necessary part of the system. Since psionic manifesters don't get many powers, and many of the powers they can take lose efficacy over time (ie, many don't have augments), they have to have a mechanic to switch their powers known out, and to alter their builds to suit the current place in the campaign. Psychic reformation allows them to do this, although it costs them more than switching out spells for arcane spontaneous casters. If you do use it, however, you have to replace your feats, powers known, etc, with what you qualified for at that level. For instance, a power you gained at level 1 must be replaced with a 1st level power, you had to have qualified for feats at level 1, and so on. Sound okay?
animunculi 02-24-08, 10:55 AM	This conclusion is totally awesome! Thanks Lycan and all others for your effort! I am sure my DM will be amazed at how simple this can be. I wasn't ready for a new character this game, but I promise I will have a psionic character and just show my DM how versatile they can be! :D
Bacris 02-25-08, 09:58 AM	One recommendation I have is to make sure you understand the rules of your character in and out. Don't make rookie mistakes that might make your DM regret his decision :) And discuss your character concept / options with your DM so he understands what your character can do. Sometimes, DMs can be surprised by what psionics can do - better for him to know ahead of time than to decide you can't play the character anymore for balance reasons. :)
Lycanthromancer 02-25-08, 10:06 AM	And make sure to look at the stickied threads at the beginning of the forum page. Give these a good thorough reading, and be ready to enlighten your DM if something comes up. Giving the 'pantheon slaughtering wizard' link in my sig a look is a good start, too. :D
animunculi 02-26-08, 11:27 AM	The worst part about this is that I know the rules pretty good (at least I think so), but the DM is quite insistant on giving on-the-spot rulings for things he dont know or is unsure of. Also, he has a habit of misinterpreting things like AoOs but he usually gives logic the preference over rules. Other than this he is a great DM and I am sure in time he will grow to like psionics. If not, I will DM a campaign myself and encourage the players to try psionic classes so he could just see it in action :P.
CrimsonDeath 02-26-08, 12:43 PM	The worst part about this is that I know the rules pretty good (at least I think so), but the DM is quite insistant on giving on-the-spot rulings for things he dont know or is unsure of. Then make sure he knows the relevant rules, and make note-cards with the most important ones.