A Shaper Question: Look for a Good Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Shaper Question: Look for a Good Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bit_Mace_Lord_of_Crunch
03-25-07, 12:22 AM I know that Ectopic Adept is pretty much a must for a Shaper PrC, but I was looking for a good build for after taking all of that. And good feats too, to optimise the character up to 20.
Lycanthromancer
03-25-07, 12:48 AM Ectopic Adept, frankly, sucks. Nix the Astral Construct nerf. Ignore it. Destroy it. Avoid it like the plague. Make it suffer.

Go 3.5 Constructor, instead. You'll be much, much, much happier.

Or, you could check out some of the options in Untapped Potential. There's some nice stuff in there, such as making gigantic suits of Astral Construct body armor, similar to those giant anime robots that everybody loves.

Oh, and the Ectopic Form feats are horrible. They're nice at level 1, but every form you can get becomes inferior to simply taking Boost Construct, especially since Ectopic Forms don't get the benefit of menu abilities (at all).

Also, I made a PrC called the Fabricator, which allows you lots of nifty abilities, such as Fabricateing up to 10x as much matter per round, which turns it from a useful utility power to a must-have tactical ability during combat.
Ryuu_Tenshi
03-25-07, 01:58 PM In addition to all this, you could also check out Hyperconsious (which, like UTP, is third party), which has... off the top of my head, one which lets you have an astral construct mount (an astral bayard, I think it is called). Then there's the Astral Zealot, which lets you get a few different nice things, though its most notable class feature is the ability to get something similar to a psionic mirror image, astral construct menu choices for yourself, and then a large number of weak constructs on the field at once.

And yes; ignore the nerf. It is heresy.
Tempest Stormwind
03-25-07, 02:14 PM I'm currently playing a Shaper 5 / Astral Zealot 3 (I could reach level 9 but I'm holding off for item creation). The Zealot levels give her incredible survivability for a caster-type (good Fortitude saves, DR, free use of a Mirror-Image-esque power... at higher levels I'd gain astral construct menu abilities on myself as well), but the main reason I took it would be for its third-level and fifth-level abilities, which (respectively) give another stacking menu choice to your constructs and allow me to freely manifest a friggin' swarm of third-level astral constructs once per day.

Shaper 5 / Astral Zealot 3 / Constructor 8 has a whopping FIVE menu choices on any given construct, which gives you a huge degree of versatility. Since my DM allowed me to create an "astral worker" variant of astral construct, he's also allowed a change to Constructor, replacing utility construct with the 3.0 feat Ectomanipulation (which lets you trade two menu choices of one level for one menu choice of the next highest one). With five choices, this means I could have level 1 astral constructs with Menu C abilities -- and since I can get a LOT of them, I'd probably load up on Energy Bolt or Concussion Blast in that situation.

For some real cheese, grab Persistent Power and 5 levels of Astral Construct. I wouldn't suggest this if your DM doesn't like armies, though. It might slow the game down just a tad.

That said, Constructor is pretty much the be-all-end-all shaper PrC. It's simple, strong, effective, and versatile -- what more could you want?

The other PrC options that exist for shapers would include the Dream Keeper (Hyperconscious) and Phenotype Impressionist (Untapped Potential). Dream Keepers create dreams instead of normal astral constructs, giving them unique menu choices and the Dreamborn subtype (20% miss chance). Phenotype Impressionists work off of Untapped Potential's modified shapechanging rules, and allow you to essentially transform an astral construct into anything you could transform into yourself, albiet with all of their menu abilities intact (the sample encounter uses an octopus as the form, but gives it flight and arms -- in other words, a mini-Cthulhu).

As for feats, all you really need is Boost Construct. Overchannel, Extend Power, Talented, and so on can be useful, but aren't critical (Of those, I'd say Overchannel is one of the most useful -- it lets you call upon stronger constructs earlier. Extend Power can be fun as well, but only once you have enough levels to make it worth it). At high levels, Quicken Power can be interesting, but you can get better results from the 10th level of Constructor. The rest of your feats are open for whatever else you really want -- PrC prereqs, item creation, character development (my character acts in some ways as the party face and diplomat, so I'm taking feats to expand that goal).

For powers, DO NOT forget to take offensive, defensive, and utility powers OTHER than Astral Construct. There's three reasons for this:
1) Astral Construct is slow. It takes an entire round to manifest, and sometimes you need help NOW.
2) At low levels, constructs don't last long AT ALL. I rarely had one last the full fight until about level 5.
3) Astral Construct is just one power. It's possible in psionics to lock out that single power pretty easily -- Thieving Mindlink, Leech Known Power, Metacreativity crystal anchor, and so on. I've had to go through a rather significant "boss battle" without making a single construct as a result of that, which particularly sucked since a few of my other powers only worked on constructs (Psionic Repair Damage and Ecto Protection, requirements for Constructor). Mercifully, I still had Energy Ray, and a bit of know-how on the environment (i.e. Sonic energy rays could blast out parts of the catwalk we were fighting on).
PhaedrusXY
03-25-07, 04:51 PM I played the Toolkit build in my sig briefly, and enjoyed it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bit_Mace_Lord_of_Crunch 03-25-07, 12:22 AM	I know that Ectopic Adept is pretty much a must for a Shaper PrC, but I was looking for a good build for after taking all of that. And good feats too, to optimise the character up to 20.
Lycanthromancer 03-25-07, 12:48 AM	Ectopic Adept, frankly, sucks. Nix the Astral Construct nerf. Ignore it. Destroy it. Avoid it like the plague. Make it suffer. Go 3.5 Constructor, instead. You'll be much, much, much happier. Or, you could check out some of the options in Untapped Potential. There's some nice stuff in there, such as making gigantic suits of Astral Construct body armor, similar to those giant anime robots that everybody loves. Oh, and the Ectopic Form feats are horrible. They're nice at level 1, but every form you can get becomes inferior to simply taking Boost Construct, especially since Ectopic Forms don't get the benefit of menu abilities (at all). Also, I made a PrC called the Fabricator, which allows you lots of nifty abilities, such as Fabricateing up to 10x as much matter per round, which turns it from a useful utility power to a must-have tactical ability during combat.
Ryuu_Tenshi 03-25-07, 01:58 PM	In addition to all this, you could also check out Hyperconsious (which, like UTP, is third party), which has... off the top of my head, one which lets you have an astral construct mount (an astral bayard, I think it is called). Then there's the Astral Zealot, which lets you get a few different nice things, though its most notable class feature is the ability to get something similar to a psionic mirror image, astral construct menu choices for yourself, and then a large number of weak constructs on the field at once. And yes; ignore the nerf. It is heresy.
Tempest Stormwind 03-25-07, 02:14 PM	I'm currently playing a Shaper 5 / Astral Zealot 3 (I could reach level 9 but I'm holding off for item creation). The Zealot levels give her incredible survivability for a caster-type (good Fortitude saves, DR, free use of a Mirror-Image-esque power... at higher levels I'd gain astral construct menu abilities on myself as well), but the main reason I took it would be for its third-level and fifth-level abilities, which (respectively) give another stacking menu choice to your constructs and allow me to freely manifest a friggin' swarm of third-level astral constructs once per day. Shaper 5 / Astral Zealot 3 / Constructor 8 has a whopping FIVE menu choices on any given construct, which gives you a huge degree of versatility. Since my DM allowed me to create an "astral worker" variant of astral construct, he's also allowed a change to Constructor, replacing utility construct with the 3.0 feat Ectomanipulation (which lets you trade two menu choices of one level for one menu choice of the next highest one). With five choices, this means I could have level 1 astral constructs with Menu C abilities -- and since I can get a LOT of them, I'd probably load up on Energy Bolt or Concussion Blast in that situation. For some real cheese, grab Persistent Power and 5 levels of Astral Construct. I wouldn't suggest this if your DM doesn't like armies, though. It might slow the game down just a tad. That said, Constructor is pretty much the be-all-end-all shaper PrC. It's simple, strong, effective, and versatile -- what more could you want? The other PrC options that exist for shapers would include the Dream Keeper (Hyperconscious) and Phenotype Impressionist (Untapped Potential). Dream Keepers create dreams instead of normal astral constructs, giving them unique menu choices and the Dreamborn subtype (20% miss chance). Phenotype Impressionists work off of Untapped Potential's modified shapechanging rules, and allow you to essentially transform an astral construct into anything you could transform into yourself, albiet with all of their menu abilities intact (the sample encounter uses an octopus as the form, but gives it flight and arms -- in other words, a mini-Cthulhu). As for feats, all you really need is Boost Construct. Overchannel, Extend Power, Talented, and so on can be useful, but aren't critical (Of those, I'd say Overchannel is one of the most useful -- it lets you call upon stronger constructs earlier. Extend Power can be fun as well, but only once you have enough levels to make it worth it). At high levels, Quicken Power can be interesting, but you can get better results from the 10th level of Constructor. The rest of your feats are open for whatever else you really want -- PrC prereqs, item creation, character development (my character acts in some ways as the party face and diplomat, so I'm taking feats to expand that goal). For powers, DO NOT forget to take offensive, defensive, and utility powers OTHER than Astral Construct. There's three reasons for this: 1) Astral Construct is slow. It takes an entire round to manifest, and sometimes you need help NOW. 2) At low levels, constructs don't last long AT ALL. I rarely had one last the full fight until about level 5. 3) Astral Construct is just one power. It's possible in psionics to lock out that single power pretty easily -- Thieving Mindlink, Leech Known Power, Metacreativity crystal anchor, and so on. I've had to go through a rather significant "boss battle" without making a single construct as a result of that, which particularly sucked since a few of my other powers only worked on constructs (Psionic Repair Damage and Ecto Protection, requirements for Constructor). Mercifully, I still had Energy Ray, and a bit of know-how on the environment (i.e. Sonic energy rays could blast out parts of the catwalk we were fighting on).
PhaedrusXY 03-25-07, 04:51 PM	I played the Toolkit build in my sig briefly, and enjoyed it.