Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tinari 03-10-07, 09:56 PM	Dear Psionics board folks. I have decided for some reason, albeit rather unreasonable, that I want to play a wilder in any campaign I play with my current group, in any role that I would need to fill. I love wilder, indeed, I even want to emulate it in other things where I have some freedom of my character design, and was wondering how I would fit the class, via feat and power selection, to fit into the key roles a party may need. Blaster/Caster: This is already filled out, and easily doable as a wilder. Care must be taken with your limited selectin of powers, but Educated Wilder helps to take some of the burden off. Wilders are good at this because they're a full manifester. Melee/Tank: This is already filled out, and not so hard to do as a wilder. There are a plethora of "gish wilder" build ideas on here, and thus I can always pick and fiddle with those to get what I am aiming for. My current wilder is a second line fighter. Healer/Support: This is the hardest role to fill. Psionics leaves very little room for "touch" powers, as most of the buffs are "personal" in range. A bit of guidance or advice here would help greatly. I have on my current character the powers of body adjustment and empathic transfere to heal others and then remove the injuries from myself. Is there other ways to provide healing and support for others in a team as a wilder of lower levels? We typically play no lower than 5. Complete Psionics seemed like it had a few heal type powers, but that was while glancing through it. I also intend to take a Magic of Incarnum power that allows me to generate a crystal that anyone can use without training. Great item there. Stealth/Skills: This is where I am almost at a complete loss. What is the best way to fit a primarily classed wilder into the specific role that a thief fills out? A wilder can do social situations with little trouble, but when it comes to finding and figuring out how to disable traps, they become very taxed, to say the least. Astral Constructs can be generated to set off traps. But what about resetting traps, or getting through and around traps that you wish not to set off due to the fact they can alert nearby enemies? My love of wilder is pretty unreasonable, but if I were able to, in some way, to get this jack-of-all class to fit into every niche and role, I wouldn't mind playing it at any and every session with my current players, just as a challenge to some degree. Any suggestions or thoughts on this would be much appreciated. :)
FreAkOuTRG 03-10-07, 10:00 PM	Check the Sangehirn for the healer
Tinari 03-10-07, 10:10 PM	Check the Sangehirn for the healer I actually don't think the Sangehirn is very intrinsicly better at healing than a wilder burning a feat to get Empathic Transfere. You have to burn a few feats to get into it and place ranks in what is a less useful skill for a healer with power to burn. In exchange, you get a good fort save, and the ability to cast six powers (that you may or may not have) on others instead of personal only. Biofeedback is nice to cast on others, as is vigor. But as it stands, empathic transfering wounds and body adjusting themself off of yourself seems a much more... efficient method. If they had a more 'lay hands' ability, this would certainly tilt it in their favor. Fast healing and DR are both great. Does that DR stack with Biofeedback? Neither state a conflict, and my knowledge of DR stacking rules for "same type, different sources" is not great. The 3.0 Sangehirn had a great number of healing abilities, but lost them with the revision, and manifesting body adjustment on others is an inefficient cast compared to empathic transfere followed up with body adjustment.
Red12 03-10-07, 10:31 PM	A Mantled Wilder who chooses the life mantle would be a great healer. Yes, the first level power is Touch of Health, which is 2 hp/1pp. With the wilder, it's easy to get some serious healing in. A Mantled Wilder who chooses the deception mantle would be good at sneaking and manipulation. As for traps... at a loss there. I suppose you could take Time Hop and try and remove the dangerous parts of the trap :P As you can see, I'm a fan of Mantled Wilder's when it comes to playing themes/roles, instead of the usual wilder gish. Of course, educated wilder is a must for this instance, as around 8 of your powers are in the same vein.
Tinari 03-10-07, 10:38 PM	As you can see, I'm a fan of Mantled Wilder's when it comes to playing themes/roles, instead of the usual wilder gish. Of course, educated wilder is a must for this instance, as around 8 of your powers are in the same vein. I may have to relook them. At a glance, I saw the mantled wilder requird you to take the powers in said mantle, and it just, in my mind, stunk. Wilders get a pitiful number of powers known, and being forced into a selection cuts your versitility down a heavy bit. But you had me rethink that. If I am truely trying to fill a very specific niche, then maybe some sacrifice is required. But that brings up a question. Are mantle powers valid selections for the EK feat, or are they limited to only psion/psi-warrior specific powers? And being a mantled wilder, isn't there some special specifics related to mantles in the manner of feats that give you bonus mantle powers, or bonus mantles? My ComPsi knowledge is limited, as I've only browsed the book a few times at ye locale booke shoppe. :P
Red12 03-10-07, 11:10 PM	Mantled Wilder does require you to take the power, yes this is unfortunate, but thats why I like to use both Mantled and Educated. For example, the life mantle has 8 powers. You HAVE to take them. Touch of Life From the Brink Body Purification Stygian Ward Psionic Revivify Mend Wounds Restoration, Psioinic True Metabolism* with bonus augment Now, thats a really sound base for a healer support type. Couple this with Educated Wilder, and you'd have 7 other powers to play with. 3 from psion/wilder list, 4 from any list. Are mantle powers valid selections? Yep, they are. Which is why you could go the alternate route and use your expanded knowledges to purchase the mantle/non-wilder powers you wanted, instead of committing to a mantle. As for the mantle feats, Tap mantle just adds the powers to your list. This means that you can take those powers like anyother wilder power. However, you need access to a mantle already, so you are really only get to play with a few powers. Again, its just something I like to mess around with. Really a matter of personal preferance. Mantles often have a few (or nearly ALL) dicipline specific powers on them, so you may end up saving feats if you want to play a themed character.
Shado 03-10-07, 11:27 PM	Mantled Wilder gives the Wilder the Mantle's special power. It does require you to take every power on the list, but there are a few ways around this: 1.) Educated Wilder... the bonus Expanded Knowledge feats can be used for non-mantle powers, or even to take them early to free up your next slot (useful for when you getting ready to gain access to a new power level, but are still required to pick up one more lower level mantle power.) 2.) Taking Hidden Power and Expand Knowledge for feats. Again, like with the bonus XK from Educated, you can opt for alt powers, or take mantle ones early. 3.) Psychic Reformation. Take a power, as you're required, then unlearn it. Wild Surge + Healing Touch (Life Mantle or XK/Hidden Power) makes for pretty efficient downtime healing... a little point intensive for good in combat heals though. With Hidden Power, Educated Wilder, you could even take a non-Life Mantle and be a decent healer. Pure Wilder is rough for skill monkey. You're pretty much required to at least dip for a class with Trapfinding (Rogue, Ninja, Scout, Spell/Psithief, Psychic Rogue), play human and take Able Learner. With a decent INT you should be able to maintain you ranks decently. Maybe PrC to Ebon Saint?
InkBlot 03-11-07, 05:04 PM	This is my prefered way to heal with psionics. I've done the math (mostly in my head though), and I'm pretty certain it's the most efficient way for any psionicist to heal. Step 1: Take the Psicrystal Affinity feat. Learn the powers Vigor and Share Pain. Step 2: Manifest Share Pain between yourself and every party member, so that you take half their damage. Step 3: Manifest Share Pain between yourself and your psicrystal, so that your psicrystal takes half your damage. Step 4: When you see trouble comming, manifest Vigor and share it with your psicrystal. Step 5: ??? Step 6: Profit. At 5th level, you can prevent 4.5 points of damage per power point spent. This gets more effecient as you level, since the cost of Share Pain is static. For example, at 10th level you can prevent 6.25 points of damage per power point. This method also works with Empathic Transfer. Manifest Share Pain on your psicrystal, share Vigor with your psicrystal, and manifest Empathic Transfer on your wounded friend. If you use 3 power points on Vigor then you can heal 3 HP per power point, but your left with a point or two of damage on yourself. If you use 4 power points on Vigor, then you can heal 2.75 HP per power point. The point is that Vigor gives you a buffer for when you absorb damage from allies. Sharing Vigor with your psycrystal, and then using Share Pain, will double that buffer for less than double the cost.
PhaedrusXY 03-11-07, 06:18 PM	Edit: This would all work with a warforged Wilder, also. But as a Wilder, powers known are precious. A warforged psion with Share Pain on his psicrystal can heal quite efficiently by sharing Psionic Repair Damage with it. PRD scales with manifester level, unlike alot of other psionic powers. So even with the minimal investment of 3 power points, you get decent yields(6d8+2xML for 3 power points). By using Share Pain to take half of your parties' damage (which is Shared with the Psicrystal), this can be a fairly efficient (if dangerous) way of providing psionic "healing". (You don't actually heal them, you just prevent half their damage. You could "finish" healing them later with Empathic Transfer, but that's more expensive.) Share an augmented Vigor with the psicrystal before big fights to give yourself a buffer.
JulesCARV 03-11-07, 06:51 PM	Well, as a wilder, you have 4 + int skill points. If you play a human, say, and take able learner at first level, and start as a rogue with, say, 14 intelligence, you could have 7 skill points per level with rogue skills as class skills. Not great, but you could do it, perhaps. Since you'll want good charisma anyway, maybe focus on skills like bluff, diplomacy, use magic device, etc? Or, if your party has more conventional needs, 7 is enough to snag spot, listen, hide, move silently, search, disable device, and tumble. (replace tumble with use magic device, open lock, or whatever if you want) I mean, wilders aren't greatly suited for the skilled roll, with the lack of intelligence synergy and dependence on other attributes, but hey, at least they get 4 + int skill points.
Tinari 03-11-07, 08:16 PM	This is my prefered way to heal with psionics. I've done the math (mostly in my head though), and I'm pretty certain it's the most efficient way for any psionicist to heal. Step 1: Take the Psicrystal Affinity feat. Learn the powers Vigor and Share Pain. Step 2: Manifest Share Pain between yourself and every party member, so that you take half their damage. Step 3: Manifest Share Pain between yourself and your psicrystal, so that your psicrystal takes half your damage. Step 4: When you see trouble comming, manifest Vigor and share it with your psicrystal. Step 5: ??? Step 6: Profit. At 5th level, you can prevent 4.5 points of damage per power point spent. This gets more effecient as you level, since the cost of Share Pain is static. For example, at 10th level you can prevent 6.25 points of damage per power point. Yes, efficient. However, honestly I have no interest in taking and using a psicrystal for personal reasons, and avoiding some of the more potent combos. I am a bit more knowlegable of a player in a group of players who don't optimize for various reasons or another. Thus why I stick to using the Empathic Transfere/Body Adjustment combo. That, and it seems like even with Vigor, you'd take real damage from transferring real wounds. But that's just me. Anyway, if the "Only trapfinding classes can find and disable traps of X difficulty" rule is modified and taken out, then a wilder human with able learner could certainly invest in the path of trap location and disabling. That'd certainly be fun and interesting, but requires a houserule to get away with fully.
InkBlot 03-11-07, 10:21 PM	Yes, efficient. However, honestly I have no interest in taking and using a psicrystal for personal reasons, and avoiding some of the more potent combos. I am a bit more knowlegable of a player in a group of players who don't optimize for various reasons or another. Thus why I stick to using the Empathic Transfere/Body Adjustment combo. Actually, it realy sucks compared to a cleric's healing ability. A 5th level cleric heals about 3.7 points of damage per "power point," without using up any feats, and automatically knows all the spells on his list. A 5th level wilder can heal slightly less than that if he uses up all two of his feats and all but one of his powers known. Besides, who's going to complain that you're playing an optimized character if that character is optimized towards helping the rest of the party? And I don't blame you for not wanting a psicrystal. I find them a little goofy myself. It's a little cheesy, but you could always get a coward psicrystal who is too afraid to reveal itself; or a stealthy psicrystal who sees being overlooked as an advantage.
Tinari 03-12-07, 02:04 AM	but you could always get a coward psicrystal who is too afraid to reveal itself; or a stealthy psicrystal who sees being overlooked as an advantage. I actually LOVE the idea of that, so it practically is just my pet that I can keep and use for utility reasons, and such. As far as optimized for helping the party, hehe. We were wandering a dungeon, and our rogue fell into a trap. A lava pit. 20D6 fire damage, and 10D6 fire damage for 1D4 rounds. He had 5 points of fire resistance, but that still burned him to hell and back. (10th level characters) So I manifested a full empathic transfere, healed him for 10D10, and my rolls were such that I entirely negated the entire 20D6 damage he took. My character almost went into shock, but the nearby druid with a prepared CCWs managed to bring my damage down, so I continued to pump him with empathic healing while the druid kept hitting me with CMWs as needed. It was a great moment, that made me go "Whoa. Man can I heal a lot in one shot..." There is actually another idea I want to run as a class. The Weapon Master Wilder. It is from a spell I found to be interesting in the Spell Compendium in conjunction with the "Call Weapon" power in the SRD. I simply modified it into Psionic form. The spell is a first level Wiz/Sor and first level Bard spell that grants you proficiency when using a specific weapon. Tell me if it's a suitable adaptation. Weaponry Savant Clairsentience Level: Psion/wilder 2, psychic warrior 1 Display: Visual Manifesting Time: 1 standard action; see text Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 min./level (D) Power Points: Psion/wilder 3, psychic warrior 1 You call upon the mental training and discipline of a well trained warrior. Upon manifesting this power, your mind becomes attuned to the specific weapon you're holding and you become familiar with it and how to use it as if you were proficient with it. This power lasts so long as you remain within five feet of your choosen weapon, and simply relinquishing your grip does not end the power. However if you choosen weapon remains over five feet away from you for more than two consecutive rounds, you lose all benifits of this power. The proficiency gained with this power applies only with the specific weapon(s) you held at the time of manifesting this power, and with no other weapons, even those of the same type you were using. Augment You can augment this power in any or all of the following ways. 1. If you spend 3 additional power points, you gain weapon focus with the weapon you hold at the time of manifesting this power. 2. If you spend 3 additional power points, you gain weapon specialization with the weapon you hold at the time of manifesting this power. 3. If you spend 3 additional power points, the duration of this power becomes 1 hour/level instead of 1 min./level. 4. If you spend 4 additional power points, you can manifest this power as a swift action. 5. For every additional 4 power points spent augmenting this power, you gain a +1 insight bonus to attack and damage rolls with your choosen weapon. (It IS ok for me to post this power here, right?)