Anarchic Initiate any good for Wilder? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Anarchic Initiate any good for Wilder? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bullvinne
01-08-08, 12:59 PM Howdy, I am planning on a backup character incase my current one dies because my GM will kill you if he can he loves to do it. Anyway so I was thinking of goin wilder/Anarchic Initiate for this backup for a Sorcerer like psionic character but was wondering how will it perform? I read the Wilder build compendium and it didnt have anything on the Anarchic Initiate so please advise
pfooti
01-08-08, 01:19 PM Anarchic Initiate, strangely enough, is way better for the psion than the wilder. The entry requirements for AI are 8 ranks of knowledge (planes), which isn't a class skill for Wilders. Unless that's been changed in a ruling, or you can get your DM to fudge it, it'll prevent you from going AI for quite some time. The benefits you get from AI aren't all that superawesome, over and above what you get from Wilder.

On the other hand Psion 5 makes a great lead-in for AI. You get more powers known from psion, all the great features of the wild surge, and the 3/4 BAB of the wilder.

It's also worth noting that the table for chaotic surge is misleading. It's not "no effect / -50% / +50% / Double", it is actually (when you read the text) "normal effect / half damage / empowered / maximized". The big deal there is that the chaotic surge, unlike similar powers (like the Wild Mage's class feature) is always worth doing, because there's only a 1/4 chance of a negative result, and the expected positive results are very good.

I played a blaster psion with energy missile and chaotic surge for about 7 levels, and those AI levels were spectacular. It makes for a VERY powerful blaster. Favored Energy plus Chaotic Surge means you'll be doing a lot of damage, relative to what wizards and sorcerers at comparable levels can put out.
AntiDjinn
01-08-08, 02:14 PM Unless you do a certain character hocus pocus, you can't even build the sample wilder/anarchic initiate from C.P. It takes 13 levels of wilder to qualify due to the requirement for 8 ranks of Knowledge (The Planes). So unless your replacement character is going to start at 14th level, your DM allows the loop hole that makes it legal, or your DM is willing to waive the prereq, you won't be able to do it.

If your DM will just lower the prereqs, I suggest replacing Knowledge (Planes) 8 ranks with: Knowledge (Planes) 4 ranks and Must have physically visited the plane of Limbo.
CrimsonDeath
01-08-08, 02:25 PM The benefits you get from AI aren't all that superawesome, over and above what you get from Wilder.

Except for the fact that you're no longer taking Wilder levels, which is nice because the PP loss from Psychic Enervation stops going up.

It's worth noting that there are a couple of non-Core feats that will get you Knowledge: The Planes as a class skill (Apprentice: Spellcaster from Dungeon Master's Guide 2, and Education from Player's Guide to Faerun).
teshen
01-08-08, 02:38 PM Except for the fact that you're no longer taking Wilder levels, which is nice because the PP loss from Psychic Enervation stops going up.

It's worth noting that there are a couple of non-Core feats that will get you Knowledge: The Planes as a class skill (Apprentice: Spellcaster from Dungeon Master's Guide 2, and Education from Player's Guide to Faerun).
Agreed and Agreed. Also, Education appears in the Eberron: Campaign Setting p. 52.

And Education on an educated wilder (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) is pretty good for an initiate.
pfooti
01-08-08, 02:40 PM Good points. The key feature, IMO, to Anarchic Initiate is the chaotic surge, and you can get that right away in a dip. Personally, I like AI 3, so you can do the chaotic surge with a wild surge rather than an overchannel. After that, you have your choice of directions to go in.

As it happens, that brings your BAB to 4 (2 from psion5 and 2 from AI3). So you could easily do Psion 5 / Anarchic Initiate 3 / Slayer 10. Similar to a wilder in its ability to blast and fight in melee (although you defer armor and weapon proficiencies until Slayer 1), but with a better overall BAB (can get to 16 BAB by 20 for epic goodness), many more powers known, all the fun features of Slayer (including immunity to mind-affecting spells and abilities).

Wilder does have the advantage of a much better skill list, as Slayer has a terrible one. Slayers get better hit dice, though.

In all, I use that build as an Iconic one in my head - easily adaptable to any real psion discipline for blasting (BAB helps with the touch-attack powers), gishing (heavy armor, good BAB, martial weapons, lots of powers), or mind-controlling (although telepath psions probably want to go thrallherd instead). There's another mostly-full manifesting, full BAB class in Lords of Madness that's good for the last 2 levels if you go to 20, but I forget the name of it at the moment. You end up as a ML18, BAB 16, butt-kicker.

But I admit it, I'm a wilder-hater. Any class that actually gets worse as it goes along seems a little funky (Schism is a must for many psionic builds and it is subject to volatile mind, and don't even get me started on that enervation hooey).
AntiDjinn
01-08-08, 02:41 PM To build Embersage (sample AI character from C.P.), you can:

In a Realms campaign start the character as a first level wilder with the Cosmopolitan feat, selecting Knowledge (The Planes) as a class skill (it also grants you +2 with the skill, which matters not when it comes to qualifying for a PrC). Level up to wilder 5, maxing out your ranks in this skill (Embersage appears to have gone up to wilder 7 before prestiging). Level up into AI, continue to add ranks in Knowledge (The Planes) until you have 4 more ranks. Now, use Psychic Reformation to ditch Cosmopolitan and replace it with a different feat (Embersage appears to have replaced it with Combat Manifestation; she is emotional, but not particularly smart). With the loss of Cosmopolitan, Knowledge (The Planes) becomes cross-class, so your skill points spent as a wilder will only net 4 ranks, but you have purchased 4 more ranks since taking the PrC so even after the loss you still have enough to qualify. Embersage also appears to have reformed Psychic Reformation away to hide how she managed to exist as a quasi-legal character, again, she isn't very bright.

This is assuming, of course, that you DM allows Reformation hocus pocus to be inserted into the history of a character before introduction.
CrimsonDeath
01-08-08, 06:24 PM (although telepath psions probably want to go thrallherd instead)

Since Charm and Dominate are on the Telepath list (and are two of probably the three best powers on it), I think Telepaths actually gain the least out of the Thrallherd class.
Pangeon
02-02-08, 10:34 AM Anarchic Initiate is awesome. You get a freaking Planar Hole Puncher (c) at higher levels. Do it.
Lycanthromancer
02-02-08, 12:53 PM But go psion instead of wilder. Definitely. No wilder for the ai. It makes the Lycanpuppy sad.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g111/Lycanthromancer/dog_using_computer-med.jpg
archerpwr
02-02-08, 01:36 PM But go psion instead of wilder. Definitely. No wilder for the ai. It makes the Lycanpuppy sad.

Puppy (http://www.groovythemes.com/animals/dog_using_computer-med.jpg)

OMG! Cute! :ghosted:
Lycanthromancer
02-02-08, 01:47 PM Thank you. I do try. Keep myself clean, and so on. :P
DracoPhoenix
02-04-08, 07:13 AM Howdy, I am planning on a backup character incase my current one dies because my GM will kill you if he can he loves to do it. <snip>

Yeah, what you do is roll about 20 characters, straight from the PHB2's "suggestions". Don't invest anything beyond the minimum effort in them (roll a few that are identical, but with different names).

It's not worth wasting (any) good character material on a putz like a homicidal DM.
CrimsonDeath
02-04-08, 08:56 AM Or you could do an endless parade of vat-cloned teflon psychos.

"This is the same character."
"No, he just has all the same classes, skills, feats, and powers."
NoldorForce
02-04-08, 11:02 AM Or you could do an endless parade of vat-cloned teflon psychos.

"This is the same character."
"No, he just has all the same classes, skills, feats, and powers."http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r137/NoldorForce/motivator9783350.jpg

I've never played Paranoia, but I've heard many good (and hilarious) things about it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bullvinne 01-08-08, 12:59 PM	Howdy, I am planning on a backup character incase my current one dies because my GM will kill you if he can he loves to do it. Anyway so I was thinking of goin wilder/Anarchic Initiate for this backup for a Sorcerer like psionic character but was wondering how will it perform? I read the Wilder build compendium and it didnt have anything on the Anarchic Initiate so please advise
pfooti 01-08-08, 01:19 PM	Anarchic Initiate, strangely enough, is way better for the psion than the wilder. The entry requirements for AI are 8 ranks of knowledge (planes), which isn't a class skill for Wilders. Unless that's been changed in a ruling, or you can get your DM to fudge it, it'll prevent you from going AI for quite some time. The benefits you get from AI aren't all that superawesome, over and above what you get from Wilder. On the other hand Psion 5 makes a great lead-in for AI. You get more powers known from psion, all the great features of the wild surge, and the 3/4 BAB of the wilder. It's also worth noting that the table for chaotic surge is misleading. It's not "no effect / -50% / +50% / Double", it is actually (when you read the text) "normal effect / half damage / empowered / maximized". The big deal there is that the chaotic surge, unlike similar powers (like the Wild Mage's class feature) is always worth doing, because there's only a 1/4 chance of a negative result, and the expected positive results are very good. I played a blaster psion with energy missile and chaotic surge for about 7 levels, and those AI levels were spectacular. It makes for a VERY powerful blaster. Favored Energy plus Chaotic Surge means you'll be doing a lot of damage, relative to what wizards and sorcerers at comparable levels can put out.
AntiDjinn 01-08-08, 02:14 PM	Unless you do a certain character hocus pocus, you can't even build the sample wilder/anarchic initiate from C.P. It takes 13 levels of wilder to qualify due to the requirement for 8 ranks of Knowledge (The Planes). So unless your replacement character is going to start at 14th level, your DM allows the loop hole that makes it legal, or your DM is willing to waive the prereq, you won't be able to do it. If your DM will just lower the prereqs, I suggest replacing Knowledge (Planes) 8 ranks with: Knowledge (Planes) 4 ranks and Must have physically visited the plane of Limbo.
CrimsonDeath 01-08-08, 02:25 PM	The benefits you get from AI aren't all that superawesome, over and above what you get from Wilder. Except for the fact that you're no longer taking Wilder levels, which is nice because the PP loss from Psychic Enervation stops going up. It's worth noting that there are a couple of non-Core feats that will get you Knowledge: The Planes as a class skill (Apprentice: Spellcaster from Dungeon Master's Guide 2, and Education from Player's Guide to Faerun).
teshen 01-08-08, 02:38 PM	Except for the fact that you're no longer taking Wilder levels, which is nice because the PP loss from Psychic Enervation stops going up. It's worth noting that there are a couple of non-Core feats that will get you Knowledge: The Planes as a class skill (Apprentice: Spellcaster from Dungeon Master's Guide 2, and Education from Player's Guide to Faerun). Agreed and Agreed. Also, Education appears in the Eberron: Campaign Setting p. 52. And Education on an educated wilder (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) is pretty good for an initiate.
pfooti 01-08-08, 02:40 PM	Good points. The key feature, IMO, to Anarchic Initiate is the chaotic surge, and you can get that right away in a dip. Personally, I like AI 3, so you can do the chaotic surge with a wild surge rather than an overchannel. After that, you have your choice of directions to go in. As it happens, that brings your BAB to 4 (2 from psion5 and 2 from AI3). So you could easily do Psion 5 / Anarchic Initiate 3 / Slayer 10. Similar to a wilder in its ability to blast and fight in melee (although you defer armor and weapon proficiencies until Slayer 1), but with a better overall BAB (can get to 16 BAB by 20 for epic goodness), many more powers known, all the fun features of Slayer (including immunity to mind-affecting spells and abilities). Wilder does have the advantage of a much better skill list, as Slayer has a terrible one. Slayers get better hit dice, though. In all, I use that build as an Iconic one in my head - easily adaptable to any real psion discipline for blasting (BAB helps with the touch-attack powers), gishing (heavy armor, good BAB, martial weapons, lots of powers), or mind-controlling (although telepath psions probably want to go thrallherd instead). There's another mostly-full manifesting, full BAB class in Lords of Madness that's good for the last 2 levels if you go to 20, but I forget the name of it at the moment. You end up as a ML18, BAB 16, butt-kicker. But I admit it, I'm a wilder-hater. Any class that actually gets worse as it goes along seems a little funky (Schism is a must for many psionic builds and it is subject to volatile mind, and don't even get me started on that enervation hooey).
AntiDjinn 01-08-08, 02:41 PM	To build Embersage (sample AI character from C.P.), you can: In a Realms campaign start the character as a first level wilder with the Cosmopolitan feat, selecting Knowledge (The Planes) as a class skill (it also grants you +2 with the skill, which matters not when it comes to qualifying for a PrC). Level up to wilder 5, maxing out your ranks in this skill (Embersage appears to have gone up to wilder 7 before prestiging). Level up into AI, continue to add ranks in Knowledge (The Planes) until you have 4 more ranks. Now, use Psychic Reformation to ditch Cosmopolitan and replace it with a different feat (Embersage appears to have replaced it with Combat Manifestation; she is emotional, but not particularly smart). With the loss of Cosmopolitan, Knowledge (The Planes) becomes cross-class, so your skill points spent as a wilder will only net 4 ranks, but you have purchased 4 more ranks since taking the PrC so even after the loss you still have enough to qualify. Embersage also appears to have reformed Psychic Reformation away to hide how she managed to exist as a quasi-legal character, again, she isn't very bright. This is assuming, of course, that you DM allows Reformation hocus pocus to be inserted into the history of a character before introduction.
CrimsonDeath 01-08-08, 06:24 PM	(although telepath psions probably want to go thrallherd instead) Since Charm and Dominate are on the Telepath list (and are two of probably the three best powers on it), I think Telepaths actually gain the least out of the Thrallherd class.
Pangeon 02-02-08, 10:34 AM	Anarchic Initiate is awesome. You get a freaking Planar Hole Puncher (c) at higher levels. Do it.
Lycanthromancer 02-02-08, 12:53 PM	But go psion instead of wilder. Definitely. No wilder for the ai. It makes the Lycanpuppy sad. http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g111/Lycanthromancer/dog_using_computer-med.jpg
archerpwr 02-02-08, 01:36 PM	But go psion instead of wilder. Definitely. No wilder for the ai. It makes the Lycanpuppy sad. Puppy (http://www.groovythemes.com/animals/dog_using_computer-med.jpg) OMG! Cute! :ghosted:
Lycanthromancer 02-02-08, 01:47 PM	Thank you. I do try. Keep myself clean, and so on. :P
DracoPhoenix 02-04-08, 07:13 AM	Howdy, I am planning on a backup character incase my current one dies because my GM will kill you if he can he loves to do it. <snip> Yeah, what you do is roll about 20 characters, straight from the PHB2's "suggestions". Don't invest anything beyond the minimum effort in them (roll a few that are identical, but with different names). It's not worth wasting (any) good character material on a putz like a homicidal DM.
CrimsonDeath 02-04-08, 08:56 AM	Or you could do an endless parade of vat-cloned teflon psychos. "This is the same character." "No, he just has all the same classes, skills, feats, and powers."
NoldorForce 02-04-08, 11:02 AM	Or you could do an endless parade of vat-cloned teflon psychos. "This is the same character." "No, he just has all the same classes, skills, feats, and powers."http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r137/NoldorForce/motivator9783350.jpg I've never played Paranoia, but I've heard many good (and hilarious) things about it.