Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Suldarr'essalar 08-25-06, 09:33 AM	As promised: this is a conversion of 3.0 Archpsion (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/psi/psi20021122b) from the Mind's Eye (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/psi). http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/EPIC_Gallery/Gallery4/44254_C4_Cloakofepicc50223.jpg HD:d4 Prerequirements: Psionics: Ability to manifest 7th level powers; Knowledge of at least 3 power from at least 4th level, each from a different power list. Skills: Knowledge(psionics) 15 ranks, Psicraft 15 ranks, Feats: Psionic Endowment, Skill Focus (Psicraft), Any metapsionic feat. Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Manifester Level 1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Path of the Mind +1 2 +1 +0 +0 +3 Path of the Mind +1 3 +1 +1 +1 +3 Path of the Mind +1 4 +2 +1 +1 +4 Path of the Mind +1 5 +2 +1 +1 +4 Path of the Mind +1 Class Skills The arch psion's class skills are Concentration (Con), Craft (all skills)(Int), Knowledge (all skills) (Int), Psicraft (Int), Use Psionic Device (Cha). Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier Class Features All the following are class features of the arch psion prestige class. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An arch psion gains no proficiency in any armor or weapons, though she retains any knowledge gained from former classes. Powers Known: At every level, a arch psion gains additional power points per day and access to new powers as if he had also gained a level in whatever manifesting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus feats, metapsionic or item creation feats, and so on). This essentially means that he adds the level of arch psion to the level of whatever manifesting class the character has, then determines power points per day, powers known, and manifester level accordingly. If a character had more than one manifesting class before he became a arch psion, he must decide to which class he adds the new level of arch psion for the purpose of determining power points per day, powers known, and manifester level. Path of the Mind: As a powerful psionic entity, arch psion controls his mind, and potential, knows and expands his power beyond capabilities of normal psionic beings. At each level arch psion can unlock one of the following paths: Mind over Time (Su): This powerful path allows the arch psion to act faster than normal. He can use 2 swift actions in one round once per day. This ability can be taken more than once, each time increasing the number of uses per day by 1. Each time you take this path you lose 7 power points. Mind over Space (Su): An Arch psion who mastered this path can alter area and effect powers that use one of the following shapes: burst, cone, cylinder, emanation, or spread. The Arch psion can change one shape into another, or/and create spaces within the power’s area or effect that are not subject to the power effect. The minimum dimension for these spaces is a 5-foot cube. Furthermore, any shapeable powers have a minimum dimension of 5 feet instead of 10 feet. This path costs 13 power points. Mind over Body (Ex): This path of Mind allows arch psion to get the maximum potential from his material body. Arch psion gains +1 manifester level (which stack with normal manifester level which he gains at every level) as long as his manifester level doesn't exceed his Hit dice. This ability can be taken more than once and it costs 9 power points. Mind over Distance(Su): This path allows the arch psion to make touch attacks as rays, making ranged touch attacks up to 30ft. This path can be taken more than once. Each time it increases the range by another 30ft and costs 13 power points. Disciplined Mind(Ex): This Path allows the arch psion to regain psionic focus as a move action instead of full round action. If a character has psionic meditation feat, this path allows to regain psionic focus as a swift action instead of move action. In this case the arch psion can still choose to regain psionic focus as a move action. This path costs 15 power points. Mastery of Metapsionics(Ex): An arch psion who mastered this path can easily manipulate psionic energy without loosing focus. When you take this path, choose one metapsionic feat. From now on when you use this metapsionic feat you must be psionicly focused instead of expending your psionic focus. This ability can be taken more than once. When you choose this ability you lose 17 power points. Heightened Potential (Ex): This is one of the most powerful paths of the mind. It allows the arch psion to bypass all limitations set by the minds of every creature. Each power that allows a saving throw, and doesn't have a similar augmentation, the arch psion knows gains the following augment: " For every 3 additional power points you spend, this power's save DC increases by 1." This path costs 15 power points. Psi-like Ability (Psi): Unlocking this path arch psion becomes one with his power. He chooses one power he knows, which becomes psi-like ability usable 2 times per day, with Manifester Level equal to arch psion’s hit dice. An arch psion can select to enhance this power with metapsionics, but he must declare so when taking this path, and he must still obey all rules for using metapsionic feats (except for the increased power point cost). For example an arch psion must expend psionic focus if the feat requires him, to do so. If he can't, this ability doesn't work. This path can be taken more than once. Each time it costs 21 power points. If you choose the same power again, you gain another 2 uses. An arch psion must still pay all xp costs (if the power has such costs) of manifesting such powers
Zarreth_Nessad 08-25-06, 10:03 AM	Not quite clear on why Heightened Potential (Ex) is such a good thing.. giving up a manifester level to have an augment that isn't as good as most powers like Mind Blast that give +1 DC / 2 PP spent above base? Seems underpowered, and yet listed as one of the best. Can someone correct me here, and give an example of how it is "one of the most powerful paths of the mind"?
Bacris 08-25-06, 10:21 AM	It shouldn't be full ML progression. Remove the ML loss of Heightened and take off the 1st level boost to ML.
HaikenEdge 08-25-06, 10:27 AM	It's probably just a typographical error, but it's is spelled "lose", as opposed to "loose"; the former means to no longer have access to, while the latter means to be not tight. And it's "Heightened", not "Hightened" Nothing personal, really, but typos really get to me, especially when they're on a post that starts a thread. Personally, I don't like the liberties you took with some of the paths, namely Mind over Time (can't decide whether's its overpowered or underpowered, but I'm leaning towards underpowered), Mind Over Body (not a part of the original crunch, but its a must have for Gishes who take the class), Mastery of Metapsionics (overpowered; even in epic psionics, you have to expend your focus for metapsionics, although you can, if you have the right feats, use more than one metapsionic feat per expenditure). I'm probably being a bit over critical. Otherwise, it's a pretty good conversion.
Suldarr'essalar 08-25-06, 10:45 AM	Not quite clear on why Heightened Potential (Ex) is such a good thing.. giving up a manifester level to have an augment that isn't as good as most powers like Mind Blast that give +1 DC / 2 PP spent above base? Seems underpowered, and yet listed as one of the best. Can someone correct me here, and give an example of how it is "one of the most powerful paths of the mind"?I was thinking about giving him +1DC/2pp spent, but there is a reason why psionics doesn't have heightened power feat. Concider psion 15/arch psoin 5, ML 20, Heightened Potential gives +1 DC /2 pp: Overchanneled + Greater Psionic Endowment Decerebrate the power's DC = 10 + 7 (power level) + 2 (Greater Psionic Endowment) + 5 (augment) = 24 + manifester's key ability modifer (around +8?) + other benefits (psionatrix) gives DC ~35 save or die. I'm no good at C.O. but there are plenty of powers that can benefit from such augmentation (crystalize, psychic crush, assimilate, dissintegrate), and the DC could be higher (take ardent and mantle focus). So I wasn't sure: give it 1DC/2pp, or 1DC/3pp. Didn't wan't to make it overpowered. It shouldn't be full ML progression. Remove the ML loss of Heightened and take off the 1st level boost to ML.On one side, you're right, but on the other, you're loosing power points. If I drop 1 ML, what should be the cost of Heightened Potential ? It's probably just a typographical error, but it's is spelled "lose", as opposed to "loose"; the former means to no longer have access to, while the latter means to be not tight. And it's "Heightened", not "Hightened" Nothing personal, really, but typos really get to me, especially when they're on a post that starts a thread. Thanks :) English is not my native language, so correct me if you find any mistakes. Mind Over Body (not a part of the original crunch, but its a must have for Gishes who take the class)I'd rather take practicied manifester and have +4 and take better abilities. Mastery of Metapsionics (overpowered; even in epic psionics, you have to expend your focus for metapsionics, although you can, if you have the right feats, use more than one metapsionic feat per expenditure).I don't know, you must be psionicly focused to use this metapsionic feat, so you cannot expend it to enhance your power with another metapsionic feat. Thanks for feedback :)
HaikenEdge 08-25-06, 01:26 PM	I don't know, you must be psionicly focused to use this metapsionic feat, so you cannot expend it to enhance your power with another metapsionic feat. With Epic Psionic Focus, you can use two metapsionic feats by expending your psionic focus once; what you're suggesting with Mastery of Metapsionics is that, a single metapsionic feat of the character's choice will never require the expenditure of focus. What I'm saying that, even at epic levels, there isn't a feat that allows for such a thing, so, I think it's overpowered when compared to the epic feat.
Bacris 08-25-06, 01:35 PM	I disagree, given the opportunity cost and the fact that it's a single static feat, while Epic is useful for any feat.
VonRaventheDaring 08-25-06, 01:41 PM	Something else to consider as a suggestion i believe the Arch Mage, something similar has lowered many of the requirements that the Arch Psion has not, ie level and such. That might be updated as well, but again just a suggestion.
Hedon 08-25-06, 03:28 PM	Agreed on the entry requirements - requiring 3 powers from different lists also (correct me if I'm wrong) adds Expanded Knowledge to the feat requirements, which are pretty hefty to begin with.
Suldarr'essalar 08-25-06, 04:07 PM	Agreed on the entry requirements - requiring 3 powers from different lists also (correct me if I'm wrong) adds Expanded Knowledge to the feat requirements, which are pretty hefty to begin with. That is true (unless you're an ardent). One metapsionic feat is kicked out (a typo). I didn't want the arch psion to become a class which requirements are met by any psion/wilder/ardent at 13th level (except for skill focus perhaps). The path to become an arch psion should be hard, and not every one should be able to access it. A 3.0 arch psion has the same requirements on power level, and skills. He has 3 feat requirement + at least 4 (out of 5) ability scores above 14. My requires 4 feats instead of ability scores. Now, what should be the cost of Heightened Potential? Is it balanced ability?
runestar 08-25-06, 10:37 PM	The 3.0 arch psion gave full manifesting progression, so the 3.5 version shouldn't really be any different.:) Heightened Potential (Ex): This is one of the most powerful paths of the mind. It allows the arch psion to bypass all limitations set by the minds of every creature. Each power that allows a saving throw the arch psion knows gains the following augment: " For every 3 additional power points you spend, this power's save DC increases by 1." This ability costs 1 manifester level (when an arch psion unlocks this path, he doesn't gain manifester level from this one level of this prestige class). I assume this is meant for powers whose dcs do not scale when they are augmented, like ultrablast?:) It does not make sense to apply it to typical powers...:P Nice work overall, you managed to keep it from just becoming an archmage ripoff.:)
Bacris 08-25-06, 10:47 PM	Just because it gave it in 3.0 doesn't make it right. Casting / Manifesting PrCs should lose a level of progression unless the benefits are equal to the base class, which in this case would be 1 feat per 5 class levels, plus the opportunity cost to enter.
Asadeseth 08-25-06, 11:33 PM	First normaly I would agree with Bacris in that it should cost a Manifester Level some where, but your right your paying for it in a different way. One sugesting I would recomend though is lowering the permanit PP cost for SOME of the abilitys (Mastery of Metapsionics, Mind over Space, and Mind over Distance) and make them 2PP Augments that can be apllied to applecal powers. Meny of these abilitys have too high a PP cost regardless, Psi-like Ability is clearly baised off Spell-like Ability of the Archmage, where you make them pay the eqivalent of an 11 level spell he pays a 5th level spell slot?????, and is somewhat LESS usefull to a Psion. Mind over Space is anouther sinner in this vein, might want to reveiw and possibly lower the cost of a few abilitys. Might i sugest a different take on Heightened Potential. Heightened Potential (Ex): All powers gain the special augment: any 4 power points spent augmenting a power beyond the baise power cost increase the powers effective level buy 1, this dose not include points spent on metapsionic feets. This ability costs 15 power points. (the equivalent of an 8th level spell and note the Archpsion never pays anything higher than that) One more thing i recomend replaceing or changeing Mind over Body significantly. I could make some recomendations if your interested, but the ability as listed honestly sucks.
Suldarr'essalar 08-26-06, 01:40 PM	I assume this is meant for powers whose dcs do not scale when they are augmented, like ultrablast?:) It does not make sense to apply it to typical powers...:P Yes, you're right. I changed that. One sugesting I would recomend though is lowering the permanit PP cost for SOME of the abilitys (Mastery of Metapsionics, Mind over Space, and Mind over Distance) and make them 2PP Augments that can be apllied to applecal powers. Hmm, this is an interesting idea, but that would make Mastery of Metapsionics overpoered. No, I think I'll stick to the orginal concept. Your idea could be used in a new PrC, not just a conversion ;) Meny of these abilitys have too high a PP cost regardless, Psi-like Ability is clearly baised off Spell-like Ability of the Archmage, where you make them pay the eqivalent of an 11 level spell he pays a 5th level spell slot?????, and is somewhat LESS usefull to a Psion.Well, the Spell-like ability of the archmage costs 5th level slot + the slot from which you are using the spell. A magic missile spell-like ability costs 1st level spell slot and a 5th level spell slot. It was hard, based on archmage, to add similar power to the arch psion. Along with anoter person at the Third Eye we've decided that since most powers scale up to ML and they don't have a level cap like spells, the cost of 21 pp would be just right for autoscale up to HD. Like 2/day 20d6 crystal shard for 21pp. I don't think the cost isn't to high. Mind over Space is anouther sinner in this vein, might want to reveiw and possibly lower the cost of a few abilitys.it's a better ability than the magical counterpart's and it costs the same. Why should i lower it? Might i sugest a different take on Heightened Potential. Heightened Potential (Ex): All powers gain the special augment: any 4 power points spent augmenting a power beyond the baise power cost increase the powers effective level buy 1, this dose not include points spent on metapsionic feets. This ability costs 15 power points. (the equivalent of an 8th level spell and note the Archpsion never pays anything higher than that)Wouldn't this be overpoered? I'm thinking for example: Energy X. Energy Missile (CP version) augmented to 19pp would have DC 10+2(power level) + 8(+16pp augmentation) + 4(Heightened Potential) = 24 + anifesters key modifer + feats/abilities/items that boost DC. The idea of this path is to boost DC for powers that normally don't increase DC like stomp, deceleration and so on. But I'll change the cost of this path to 15 pp. It's not worth 1ML. One more thing i recomend replaceing or changeing Mind over Body significantly. I could make some recomendations if your interested, but the ability as listed honestly sucks.It sucks mechanicly? Sure, if you have a better idea, give it to me. Casting / Manifesting PrCs should lose a level of progression unless the benefits are equal to the base class, which in this case would be 1 feat per 5 class levels, plus the opportunity cost to enter.Agree. But let's not overact (like in the case of Metamind). If we would take the weakest (counted in the cost of power points) paths, we would lose 35 power points -> more than base power point progression between 19th and 20th psion level. And there are better abilities than making 5 more swift actions a day. Edit: Added the ability to use metapsionic feats with psi-like ability.
Asadeseth 08-26-06, 07:00 PM	Ah well you see Heightened Potential and think raiseing the save DC, while I see it and think "Take that anoying globe of invulerability". Maby if you change it so that for every additonal 3 points spent on the augment the powers level increases buy one to a max of nineth level. Give both effects but caps it at the same time. Originally Posted by Suldarr'essalar Hmm, this is an interesting idea, but that would make Mastery of Metapsionics overpoered. No, I think I'll stick to the orginal concept. Your idea could be used in a new PrC, not just a conversion Well just thowing out some ideas, and maby your right on the Mastery of Metapsionics but not so sure on the other 2. Still just sugestions. True enough on the Psi-like abilitys I guess, but some how i just seems like a 21 point cost is just too high. Lower the cost but make it once perday? I dono, never realy liked this particular Archwizard ability. As for Mind over Body, well there are several options. Sence this one dosen't translate over well redo it. For example: Unification of Mind and Body (SU): For every 2 psionic feets you have you gain a +1 bonas to all Fort and Will saves, in addition you gain a +1 bonas to saves all attacks that have the death decripter or are draining in nature. This ability costs 11pp (not sure about this one, but maby, archwizard NO, but it does beter fit the flavor of a Psion) Healing Power (EX): For every 5 power points spent on Powers, round down, you heal 1 HP. This power heals you after the power gose off and can not heal you past your normal HP max. This ability costs 11 PP (wont heal you alot, but over time it will accumalate, not likely to make much differance in combat though)
Suldarr'essalar 08-30-06, 05:28 PM	Ah well you see Heightened Potential and think raiseing the save DC, while I see it and think "Take that anoying globe of invulerability". Maby if you change it so that for every additonal 3 points spent on the augment the powers level increases buy one to a max of nineth level. Give both effects but caps it at the same time.I don't know. To my mind giving a psion/ardent the power to bypass globes would be overpowered. Psions wouldn't take higher level damaging powers, and spending their "power known slots" on more utility powers... As for Mind over Body, well there are several options. Sence this one dosen't translate over well redo it. For example: Unification of Mind and Body (SU): For every 2 psionic feets you have you gain a +1 bonas to all Fort and Will saves, in addition you gain a +1 bonas to saves all attacks that have the death decripter or are draining in nature. This ability costs 11pp (not sure about this one, but maby, archwizard NO, but it does beter fit the flavor of a Psion) Healing Power (EX): For every 5 power points spent on Powers, round down, you heal 1 HP. This power heals you after the power gose off and can not heal you past your normal HP max. This ability costs 11 PP (wont heal you alot, but over time it will accumalate, not likely to make much differance in combat though)The idea was to make an ability similar to practiced manifester feat. This conversion was done before CP was published, so there was no PM feat then. Healing power can be added as another path, without replacing any of the current ones.
Suldarr'essalar 02-09-07, 10:14 AM	:bump: (anti-archivising)
Lamorake 03-08-07, 06:09 PM	First off, props to Suldarr'essalar for taking the initiative to transition this over to 3.5 from 3.0. Secondly, does WoTC plan on honoring this by officially posting it on Mind's Eye or any other accessory publication? I mean, since it was originally 3.0, it only makes sense to convert it over to 3.5.
cymbolik 03-09-07, 09:35 AM	Psi-like Ability (Psi): Unlocking this path arch psion becomes one with his power. He chooses one power he knows, which becomes psi-like ability usable 2 times per day, with Manifester Level equal to arch psion’s hit dice. An arch psion can select to enhance this power with metapsionics, but he must declare so when taking this path, and he must still obey all rules for using metapsionic feats (except for the increased power point cost). For example an arch psion must expend psionic focus if the feat requires him, to do so. If he can't, this ability doesn't work. This path can be taken more than once. Each time it costs 21 power points. If you choose the same power again, you gain another 2 uses. An arch psion must still pay all xp costs (if the power has such costs) of manifesting such powers [/list] What happens when you use psychic reformation to replace the power that you've chosen to use as a psi-like ability?
Suldarr'essalar 03-09-07, 11:29 AM	First off, props to Suldarr'essalar for taking the initiative to transition this over to 3.5 from 3.0. Secondly, does WoTC plan on honoring this by officially posting it on Mind's Eye or any other accessory publication? I mean, since it was originally 3.0, it only makes sense to convert it over to 3.5. Thanks :) There's no way to include materials from boards on the web page AFAIK, so unless Mark makes his own update, there'll be no official update. What happens when you use psychic reformation to replace the power that you've chosen to use as a psi-like ability? You replace the power as normal, and can use the psi-like ability, as you are not required to have the power after making it a psi-like ability.